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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Feb 1, 2018 19:48:03 GMT
4 we’ve done no more than the bare minimum. Taking a massive risk. No striker, wing cover or creative player. No replacement for jack when he goes in the summer We’ve gone backwards. Again Can you tell me where Jack is going in the summer? I can put a few quid on it then.
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Post by Kjones9 on Feb 1, 2018 19:56:22 GMT
4 we’ve done no more than the bare minimum. Taking a massive risk. No striker, wing cover or creative player. No replacement for jack when he goes in the summer We’ve gone backwards. Again You thought that there was the slightest possibility of sorting all those positions in January? Absolutely deluded.
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Post by Hannibal on Feb 1, 2018 20:17:16 GMT
6, A striker may have been the missing ingredient from relegation and survival.
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Post by ashleyscfc on Feb 1, 2018 20:22:45 GMT
4 we’ve done no more than the bare minimum. Taking a massive risk. No striker, wing cover or creative player. No replacement for jack when he goes in the summer We’ve gone backwards. Again You thought that there was the slightest possibility of sorting all those positions in January? Absolutely deluded. We needed a striker first, the other two would be nice to haves. If we didnt. Why did we try for Harrison otherwise? We needed to have an excellent window and we just haven’t
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Post by Kjones9 on Feb 1, 2018 20:28:15 GMT
You thought that there was the slightest possibility of sorting all those positions in January? Absolutely deluded. We needed a striker first, the other two would be nice to haves. If we didnt. Why did we try for Harrison otherwise? We needed to have an excellent window and we just haven’t You'd have moaned your bag off even if we had. Transfer windows just don't work like that for anyone, especially stoke. So I really don't know what you expected (well I do and it's nothing the club couldve delivered).
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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 1, 2018 20:52:27 GMT
5
After a decent start didn’t make enough effort to get in the much needed striker or extra CM. If we go down the board will need to look at themselves as they haven’t done enough to improve the side. If we survive the season they need to take a long hard look at themselves. They have tried to do things on the cheap and just aren’t prepared to go the extra mile to guarantee survival.
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Post by ashleyscfc on Feb 1, 2018 20:53:29 GMT
We needed a striker first, the other two would be nice to haves. If we didnt. Why did we try for Harrison otherwise? We needed to have an excellent window and we just haven’t You'd have moaned your bag off even if we had. Transfer windows just don't work like that for anyone, especially stoke. So I really don't know what you expected (well I do and it's nothing the club couldve delivered). Maybe, depends who’d we signed. The club needed a successful transfer window after a few garbage ones that are part of the cause of why we are where we are. People needed to excel at getting the right people into the club. I suppose we will find out at the end of season how right the decisions were and how far our “expectations” have dropped as a club
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Post by A-teen_six_T3 on Feb 1, 2018 21:27:02 GMT
Probably already been said but weve improved 3 out of 4 positions we needed improving. So it must be a 8 for me
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Post by professorplump on Feb 1, 2018 21:28:56 GMT
Too soon to give a rating. I think we should have been in for Slimani or even Sturridge on loan and ideally would have liked an extra CM. I can't see Staffy playing much unless Pieters gets injured or we revert to a wing back system.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 21:42:58 GMT
You are rewriting history to suit your point of view no Chelsea manager has had sole control of transfers in the Abramovich era. I'm rewriting nothing. Cleary when a manager has little to no say in IDENTIFICATION of the playing staff, its a recipe for disaster. Can the manager overrule the transfer committee? Brendan Rogers wasn't able to at Liverpool. Mourinho clearly lost the trust of the owners to the extent that he was forced to work with players he didn't want and the same is true of Conte. I believe that Hughes had little to no say in the identification of players and that the last player we signed that was truly his, was Joe Allen. Paul Lambert, at this moment in time, clearly has no say in the identification of players. I'm amazed he hasn't come into the club with an idea as to at least one player he'd want to bring along with him. It's very worrying particularly when, as you rightly identify, our transfer team are the crack guru's of messrs Scholes, Coates jnr and Cartwright. If Badou is shit, heads have to role. How do you know that Lambert didn't come with such ideas? He probably did, most likely had zeroed in on several, but the transfer team either simply had other plans which didn't come to fruition or his targets were attempted but we failed because players are reluctant to go here or can get better wages elsewhere.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Feb 1, 2018 21:45:16 GMT
We needed a striker first, the other two would be nice to haves. If we didnt. Why did we try for Harrison otherwise? We needed to have an excellent window and we just haven’t You'd have moaned your bag off even if we had. Transfer windows just don't work like that for anyone, especially stoke. So I really don't know what you expected (well I do and it's nothing the club couldve delivered). nonsense Getting another midfielder ready to step in right away would have been tough, but there were loads of decent strikers available for loans this window. We should have at least brought a striker in
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 21:50:54 GMT
You'd have moaned your bag off even if we had. Transfer windows just don't work like that for anyone, especially stoke. So I really don't know what you expected (well I do and it's nothing the club couldve delivered). nonsense Getting another midfielder ready to step in right away would have been tough, but there were loads of decent strikers available for loans this window. We should have at least brought a striker in We are putting a lot of faith in an ageing Crouch who really should just be an impact sub (which he is still effective as), a completely out of touch Berahino, and Diouf who tries his best but struggles to control the ball and always looks liable to shank it. I’m more than a little concerned about our options up front.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 1, 2018 22:00:37 GMT
I'm rewriting nothing. Cleary when a manager has little to no say in IDENTIFICATION of the playing staff, its a recipe for disaster. Can the manager overrule the transfer committee? Brendan Rogers wasn't able to at Liverpool. Mourinho clearly lost the trust of the owners to the extent that he was forced to work with players he didn't want and the same is true of Conte. I believe that Hughes had little to no say in the identification of players and that the last player we signed that was truly his, was Joe Allen. Paul Lambert, at this moment in time, clearly has no say in the identification of players. I'm amazed he hasn't come into the club with an idea as to at least one player he'd want to bring along with him. It's very worrying particularly when, as you rightly identify, our transfer team are the crack guru's of messrs Scholes, Coates jnr and Cartwright. If Badou is shit, heads have to role. How do you know that Lambert didn't come with such ideas? He probably did, most likely had zeroed in on several, but the transfer team either simply had other plans which didn't come to fruition or his targets were attempted but we failed because players are reluctant to go here or can get better wages elsewhere. He's pretty much said that he's focused solely on the group already here and left others to do the rest.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 1, 2018 22:25:08 GMT
It isn't a case of being able to dominate proceedings is it? It is a case of having a voice. Chelsea managers clearly have a voice early in their tenure then seemingly get cast aside. Conte clearly has no say at all in the identification and signing of players and look what has happened to them. I'm amazed that you cut so little slack to the team and manager for their playing style yet are quite happy to let the real culprits for what we are seeing on the pitch escape scott free. We are shit because our players are shit. We play shit football because the players aren't capable of playing good football. We are in a situation, I believe, where the manager little to no say in identifying the players that are coming into the club. A manager can't coach a rag bag bunch to play good football if he isn't given the players or type of player he would want at his disposal. Conte hasn't become a bad coach/manager overnight, just like Mourinho didn't. The same is also true of Mark Hughes who has proven he is capable of attracting and signing decent players and of getting them to play decent football. In the first 2 and half years of Hughes tenure, Hughes and Bowen would regularly be seen at games both at home and abroad watching players and teams. In the final 18 months of his tenure, he turned up at the training ground in the morning and went home afterwards. Why was that? Why would you stop watching games? Was it because it was pointless because he had little to no say in the identification of players? Is it any real surprise that the last football he was seen at was as a TV pundit during the Euro's at which point he returned to work and promptly orchestrated the signing of Joe Allen who he'd spoken to during the summer as he was watching the said games? We have a lot of issues in the current team/squad. I don't believe those issues are all of the previous managers making and I don't believe Paul Lambert had any say at all in identifying the 3 players we've signed yet if they are crap and our fortunes continue on a downward trajectory, he will be the fall guy. Well put, Dave. The biggest change that needs to take place at Stoke in the summer is getting rid of Teflon Tony and the ex-Leek Town reserve keeper. How they have managed to survive the three most catastrophic signings in the 155 year history of our club really does beggar belief. Are we saying that Hughes had no say in the incoming players into SCFC? Are we saying that Scholes and Cartwright are responsible for the signings of Berahino, Bojan, Wimmer, Imbula, Shaq and Bauer. If so... is our template any different from any other Premier League Club.?
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Post by jezzascfc on Feb 1, 2018 22:33:45 GMT
Well put, Dave. The biggest change that needs to take place at Stoke in the summer is getting rid of Teflon Tony and the ex-Leek Town reserve keeper. How they have managed to survive the three most catastrophic signings in the 155 year history of our club really does beggar belief. Are we saying that Hughes had no say in the incoming players into SCFC? Are we saying that Scholes and Cartwright are responsible for the signings of Berahino, Bojan, Wimmer, Imbula, Shaq and Bauer. If so... is our template any different from any other Premier League Club.? More and more clubs seem to be taking the signing of players out of the managers' hands, who is becoming more of a head coach. It is whose hands they then put this task into and whether they are both qualified to do so and proficient at the task which is the real concern at our club. I could live with some form of Billy Beane/Moneyball system, or a system based on prozone stats analysis, but we have Carto with his old Beswicks' mates and Scholes with his small time accountants' hat on, the latter seemingly determined to scrimp and save and spend as little as possible. Our recruitment seems, so often, to be totally haphazard. I really do believe that we signed Imbula on the basis of a jog around in a pre-season friendly with Porto and we have had our pants pulled down twice by Levy at Spurs (Palacios and Wimmer), as well as buying the busted flush that is Saido when all other suitors had long since walked away.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 1, 2018 22:45:11 GMT
Are we saying that Hughes had no say in the incoming players into SCFC? Are we saying that Scholes and Cartwright are responsible for the signings of Berahino, Bojan, Wimmer, Imbula, Shaq and Bauer. If so... is our template any different from any other Premier League Club.? More and more clubs seem to be taking the signing of players out of the managers' hands, who is becoming more of a head coach. It is whose hands they then put this task into and whether they are both qualified to do so and proficient at the task which is the real concern at our club. I could live with some form of Billy Beane/Moneyball system, or a system based on prozone stats analysis, but we have Carto with his old Beswicks' mates and Scholes with his small time accountants' hat on, the latter seemingly determined to scrimp and save and spend as little as possible. Our recruitment seems, so often, to be totally haphazard. I really do believe that we signed Imbula on the basis of a jog around in a pre-season friendly with Porto and we have had our pants pulled down twice by Levy at Spurs (Palacios and Wimmer), as well as buying the busted flush that is Saido when all other suitors had long since walked away. Yes, I am with you on the thinking.. but, I still cannot believe that any self respecting football manager (especially at the standard we are talking) would sanction a signing without some confirmation or dispute. I know it works at the bigger clubs with the "coach" mentality but that invariably seems to create problems. It's quite interesting at Man City, do you think the glorious Pep would take players without his consent? If Scholes and Cartwright are signing players without managerial consent then Lord Peter and young Coates need some proportion of blame also.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 1, 2018 23:17:13 GMT
I honestly don't think we're in that much trouble going forwards, its more the balance for me, I think we have enough goals in those we already have to be able to stay up, I just think we need to have a look at playing Shaq behind a striker regularly. Yesterday was awful but I think it will improve once they get used to a new manager and system. I think we are Crouch as much as I love him has not got more than a half in him. Diouf would need 10 sitters per game to bag one. Saido is a busted flush and I struggle to see him scoring again ! Choupo flaters to deceive. Dito for Shaq. Ramadan has potential. Going off your list I'd have to go with: Crouch, an adequate plan B but we really should have moved on by now, may win us a couple of points at the end of games. Diouf, as you say needs a lot of chances unless he doesn't get time to think about it but has shown before he can score a few. Bera, Should be starting imo, he makes the right runs but very rarely gets played in, with Shaq behind I think he'd get a few more chances and once he takes one could do well for us. EDIT, never play him with Crouch, he isn't the type to aimlessly run around for random knock ons, if we're going that way stick with Diouf. Moting, I like him, he's just very hot or cold and is a decent squad player. Shaq, best player we have and should be building the attack around him. Ramadan, seems okay but his lack of pace is going to be his undoing in the end if he doesn't sort out his decision making. Over all I think it enough to keep us up, nothing more but thats all we need, if we can stay solid at the back and go from there I'll be happy, but it needs to be ruthless in the summer in regards to outgoings.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 1, 2018 23:43:22 GMT
5
Too little too late.
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Post by slicko on Feb 2, 2018 0:16:04 GMT
Yeah, but you gotta stay positive mate. Put a smile on your face 😆
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Post by Fred Ferret on Feb 2, 2018 0:17:16 GMT
Team v Arsenal last game needed £30m of additions to stand still . Sold Arnie best player 20m so £50m investment required sold Walters Amd Bardsley and whelm say £55m Spend wimmer and frees plus 2o this window so circa £20m underi invested in the last two widows from a falling team Cheapest possible manager recruitment as job is toxic to those in demand still a team that no one could save . Answer Diouf and crouch are our forward options 3 years after they aren’t good enough Answer relegation no question self inflicted by under investment and poor managment of investment we had . About to get what we deserve and has been coming for 5 Widows of garbage . Sadly the architects will survive the inevitable catastrophic cost cuts and the decimation of anywualory from the squad God give me strength
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 2, 2018 1:03:23 GMT
2 clean sheets and 4pts, I don't see how its too little.
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Post by pavel on Feb 2, 2018 8:47:36 GMT
Simply put and spot on, and it’s been that way for a while.?4?for me and perhaps lower taking into account the last summer and last January where if we had been ambitious it could have been very different.
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Post by realstokebloke on Feb 2, 2018 12:41:52 GMT
It isn't a case of being able to dominate proceedings is it? It is a case of having a voice. Chelsea managers clearly have a voice early in their tenure then seemingly get cast aside. Conte clearly has no say at all in the identification and signing of players and look what has happened to them. I'm amazed that you cut so little slack to the team and manager for their playing style yet are quite happy to let the real culprits for what we are seeing on the pitch escape scott free. We are shit because our players are shit. We play shit football because the players aren't capable of playing good football. We are in a situation, I believe, where the manager little to no say in identifying the players that are coming into the club. A manager can't coach a rag bag bunch to play good football if he isn't given the players or type of player he would want at his disposal. Conte hasn't become a bad coach/manager overnight, just like Mourinho didn't. The same is also true of Mark Hughes who has proven he is capable of attracting and signing decent players and of getting them to play decent football. In the first 2 and half years of Hughes tenure, Hughes and Bowen would regularly be seen at games both at home and abroad watching players and teams. In the final 18 months of his tenure, he turned up at the training ground in the morning and went home afterwards. Why was that? Why would you stop watching games? Was it because it was pointless because he had little to no say in the identification of players? Is it any real surprise that the last football he was seen at was as a TV pundit during the Euro's at which point he returned to work and promptly orchestrated the signing of Joe Allen who he'd spoken to during the summer as he was watching the said games? We have a lot of issues in the current team/squad. I don't believe those issues are all of the previous managers making and I don't believe Paul Lambert had any say at all in identifying the 3 players we've signed yet if they are crap and our fortunes continue on a downward trajectory, he will be the fall guy. Well put, Dave. The biggest change that needs to take place at Stoke in the summer is getting rid of Teflon Tony and the ex-Leek Town reserve keeper. How they have managed to survive the three most catastrophic signings in the 155 year history of our club really does beggar belief. This seems to be the nub of it.
I said during our shambolic manager chase & replace that the top floor need to get whoever in, get them and the team settled asap and then move heaven and earth to find out wtf went on / went wrong with transfers.
Of course, the trouble with that is that one member (used advisedly) of that board is also a main protagonist and the other one seems to be very well 'in' with the board despite the abject failure of his and his team's' output during the tenure.
Maybe it will all sort itself out when Sir Pete finally hands over the reins, albeit signs are that Jon seems to be cosy with this arrangement also. (The only solace I have there is that he went with TS himself to try and secure QSF, so is getting increasingly hands on.)
And the trouble with that is, it might, and very probably will be, too late.
davejohnno1 I hadn't heard that about LMH & MB doing the hard yards at first and then stopping - surely they were hired with Farto & co. in situ and presumably doing all that legwork from the off anyway, so why duplicate?
Either way, it might explain a lot as to why we inexplicably went from a very upward trajectory at first and into a complete nosedive.
And, if it pissed him off that much (to the extent that he essentially gave up - which I suspect is what you are alluding to - and why wouldn't it?) then it will certainly hack off any top end manager (used advisedly) that we might get, or perhaps failed to get last time.
It also fits, sadly, with the picture painted of Lamberto as more of a lapdog, grateful for what he is given and basically admitted by him subsequently.
However, if that is true and the pizza dept continue to perform as badly as they have demonstrated they are able to, then that is a very, very bleak outlook in the meantime.
Oh, and feel free to let me know who was there on the 8th, my lips will be sealed. ; )
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Post by karl on Feb 3, 2018 11:14:53 GMT
6 We've seemingly addressed some positions which needed strengthening but there's still no apparent urgency to bring in a striker despite our poor goal scoring capability. I think we will be bringing in Benteke in the summer
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Post by nonameface on Feb 3, 2018 11:23:17 GMT
8. Strengthened the key positions and addressed the things we really needed.
Two clean sheets in two games is as many as we had had before hand. Going forward we have enough and will get better at it when the players are more confident they won't conceed a goal every 5 seconds.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 3, 2018 11:29:07 GMT
6 We've seemingly addressed some positions which needed strengthening but there's still no apparent urgency to bring in a striker despite our poor goal scoring capability. I think we will be bringing in Benteke in the summer Even if we go down?
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Post by george2again on Feb 3, 2018 11:29:32 GMT
8. Strengthened the key positions and addressed the things we really needed. Two clean sheets in two games is as many as we had had before hand. Going forward we have enough and will get better at it when the players are more confident they won't conceed a goal every 5 seconds. Completly missing the point. We have the worse crop of strikers in the premier league and did not bring one in - gross incompetance.
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Post by Kjones9 on Feb 3, 2018 11:39:47 GMT
8. Strengthened the key positions and addressed the things we really needed. Two clean sheets in two games is as many as we had had before hand. Going forward we have enough and will get better at it when the players are more confident they won't conceed a goal every 5 seconds. Completly missing the point. We have the worse crop of strikers in the premier league and did not bring one in - gross incompetance. We don't.
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Post by nonameface on Feb 3, 2018 11:50:05 GMT
8. Strengthened the key positions and addressed the things we really needed. Two clean sheets in two games is as many as we had had before hand. Going forward we have enough and will get better at it when the players are more confident they won't conceed a goal every 5 seconds. Completly missing the point. We have the worse crop of strikers in the premier league and did not bring one in - gross incompetance. Understand what you are saying but I disagree, we've got enough about us, 2 of the 3 main strikers were part of our best seasons we've had in the premier league and neither are any worse, just the ball hasn't got to them enough.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 3, 2018 12:44:28 GMT
On paper 8. Strengthened in the right places. A striker would have been good but it wasn't to be.
No one makes wholesale changes in January - 3 signings is very good business and integrating 3 is a challenge mid season. Bauer has slotted in brilliantly, Stafy has upped Pieters game (who looks far more comfortable in a back 4) and hopefully Ndiaye will settle quickly add some energy and bite in the middle. Get the existing players to play up to their potential and getting the side to play as a unit is far more important than more signings. Lambert will have had very little input on the signings - the spade work would have been done before he arrived - so from his perspective he probably didn't want too many signings so that he has the money to spend in the summer and make the team his own. He said himself there is enough quality in the squad to survive (and I belive he's right) - its up to him and the players to live up to those words.
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