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Post by RAF on Jan 4, 2018 14:30:49 GMT
The same freedom that lets Muslim Terrorists and Hate Preachers march through our streets disrespecting our laws and spouting hatred, whilst protected by our own police force! Not sure my Grandad gave his life for that or for those right wing skinhead twats doing the same. Each to their own though hey? H Are you seriously equating McClean's stance with that? I'm saying anything can be apportioned to freedom of speech. It doesn't make it right. H
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 4, 2018 14:37:09 GMT
Are you seriously equating McClean's stance with that? I'm saying anything can be apportioned to freedom of speech. It doesn't make it right. H I don't think it's the same thing at all mate. Freedom to choose whether you wear a poppy or not isn't the same as freedom to incite racial hatred. One is a personal choice that doesn't do any damage to anyone else, one, clearly, isn't.
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Post by rawli on Jan 4, 2018 14:48:44 GMT
In the same way that if I went to a country, didn't like certain aspects of it I wouldn't want to have to just keep quiet about it. If I went to the wrong country I'd be killed for my views. That doesn't really reflect on me, it reflects on the country I'd gone to. So how it works is that if you don’t like certain aspects of the country. You either A) Don’t go there. Or B) Make the most of the positives and deal with what you don’t like. So he doesn't agree with wearing a poppy which should be a voluntary thing. And on that basis you are saying he shouldn't live here or take 'our' (in most clubs case that is foreign) money? And if an English person doesn't agree with wearing a poppy should they leave?
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Post by RAF on Jan 4, 2018 14:51:27 GMT
I'm saying anything can be apportioned to freedom of speech. It doesn't make it right. H I don't think it's the same thing at all mate. Freedom to choose whether you wear a poppy or not isn't the same as freedom to incite racial hatred. One is a personal choice that doesn't do any damage to anyone else, one, clearly, isn't. Well the way I see it is this. Plenty of Irishmen died fighting in WW2 to give Mclean his right not to honour and remember them instead choosing to disrespect their menmory and what they fought for. The poppy is a symbol to honour fallen servicemen and women in times of war. Not blown up or shot by the IRA in Northern Ireland or anywhere else by the way. Let's not pretend Bloody Sunday was the start of terrorism in NI. That is still his right obviously, just makes him look a bit more of a cunt than he does usually. H
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Post by Block 22 on Jan 4, 2018 14:52:36 GMT
So how it works is that if you don’t like certain aspects of the country. You either A) Don’t go there. Or B) Make the most of the positives and deal with what you don’t like. So he doesn't agree with wearing a poppy which should be a voluntary thing. And on that basis you are saying he shouldn't live here or take 'our' (in most clubs case that is foreign) money? And if an English person doesn't agree with wearing a poppy should they leave? How would you feel if someone came to your house and didn’t take their muddy shoes off and then put their feet up on your coffee table? Would you tell them to fuck off? I would. This is not about having rights to do whatever you want. This is about having mutual respect, we respect him enough to let him work and earn fucking good money in our country so he should respect us in return. Pretty fucking simple.
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Post by rawli on Jan 4, 2018 14:54:47 GMT
So he doesn't agree with wearing a poppy which should be a voluntary thing. And on that basis you are saying he shouldn't live here or take 'our' (in most clubs case that is foreign) money? And if an English person doesn't agree with wearing a poppy should they leave? How would you feel if someone came to your house and didn’t take their muddy shoes off and then put their feet up on your coffee table? Would you tell them to fuck off? I would. I agree. But walking in and doing that isn't voluntary in our house.
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Post by Block 22 on Jan 4, 2018 15:00:48 GMT
How would you feel if someone came to your house and didn’t take their muddy shoes off and then put their feet up on your coffee table? Would you tell them to fuck off? I would. I agree. But walking in and doing that isn't voluntary in our house. Respect is not something that has to be formalised or laid out in black and white. He knows full well he is being disrespectful and it’s shameful that he has the fucking bollocks to do so considering this country effectively made him a millionaire, is his home, etc etc etc.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 4, 2018 15:15:47 GMT
I don't think it's the same thing at all mate. Freedom to choose whether you wear a poppy or not isn't the same as freedom to incite racial hatred. One is a personal choice that doesn't do any damage to anyone else, one, clearly, isn't. Well the way I see it is this. Plenty of Irishmen died fighting in WW2 to give Mclean his right not to honour and remember them instead choosing to disrespect their menmory and what they fought for. The poppy is a symbol to honour fallen servicemen and women in times of war. Not blown up or shot by the IRA in Northern Ireland or anywhere else by the way. Let's not pretend Bloody Sunday was the start of terrorism in NI. That is still his right obviously, just makes him look a bit more of a cunt than he does usually. H I don't agree that he's disrespecting their memory. You don't have to wear a poppy to respect the war dead. A symbol can take on other connotations in different places - it doesn't have the same universal meaning everywhere whatever the intentions.
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Post by maine on Jan 4, 2018 15:18:57 GMT
Of course to shift the subject, Stoke just now could do with his grit and determination, limited though he may be.
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Post by Block 22 on Jan 4, 2018 15:19:46 GMT
Well the way I see it is this. Plenty of Irishmen died fighting in WW2 to give Mclean his right not to honour and remember them instead choosing to disrespect their menmory and what they fought for. The poppy is a symbol to honour fallen servicemen and women in times of war. Not blown up or shot by the IRA in Northern Ireland or anywhere else by the way. Let's not pretend Bloody Sunday was the start of terrorism in NI. That is still his right obviously, just makes him look a bit more of a cunt than he does usually. H I don't agree that he's disrespecting their memory. You don't have to wear a poppy to respect the war dead. A symbol can take on other connotations in different places - it doesn't have the same universal meaning everywhere whatever the intentions. Turning his back on the English national anthem.. do you have an excuse for that one? Disrespectful to the country that his home is in, his job is in.. more and more and more.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jan 4, 2018 15:21:57 GMT
It's a pity they didn't jizz all up his clobber as well, but hopefully they too went out and got hit by a van, thieving ratbags.
Edit- I respect his and anyone's right to not be forced into participating in something they disagree with, for any reason, and anyone's right to hold any opinion about anything.
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Post by RAF on Jan 4, 2018 15:23:36 GMT
Well the way I see it is this. Plenty of Irishmen died fighting in WW2 to give Mclean his right not to honour and remember them instead choosing to disrespect their menmory and what they fought for. The poppy is a symbol to honour fallen servicemen and women in times of war. Not blown up or shot by the IRA in Northern Ireland or anywhere else by the way. Let's not pretend Bloody Sunday was the start of terrorism in NI. That is still his right obviously, just makes him look a bit more of a cunt than he does usually. H I don't agree that he's disrespecting their memory. You don't have to wear a poppy to respect the war dead. A symbol can take on other connotations in different places - it doesn't have the same universal meaning everywhere whatever the intentions. He's using it as a protest against Bloody Sunday. At best he's thick as dog shit, at worst a direspectful IRA supporting cuntbag. H
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 4, 2018 15:33:44 GMT
I don't agree that he's disrespecting their memory. You don't have to wear a poppy to respect the war dead. A symbol can take on other connotations in different places - it doesn't have the same universal meaning everywhere whatever the intentions. Turning his back on the English national anthem.. do you have an excuse for that one? Disrespectful to the country that his home is in, his job is in.. more and more and more. It's done for what it, again, symbolises to him and the people he grew up with. I really don't give a shit what he does. People castigate our own players for not singing it, and I think that's a load of bollocks too. I think you can live somewhere, like living there, like the people living there and still not subscribe to every last aspect of their culture or agree with every single thing their government does or has done. It really doesn't have to be that black and white.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 4, 2018 15:35:26 GMT
I don't agree that he's disrespecting their memory. You don't have to wear a poppy to respect the war dead. A symbol can take on other connotations in different places - it doesn't have the same universal meaning everywhere whatever the intentions. He's using it as a protest against Bloody Sunday. At best he's thick as dog shit, at worst a direspectful IRA supporting cuntbag. H I don't think thinking Bloody Sunday was shit - or even thinking Ireland should be united - automatically makes you an IRA supporter.
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Post by realstokebloke on Jan 4, 2018 15:36:19 GMT
Good.
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Post by RAF on Jan 4, 2018 15:38:34 GMT
He's using it as a protest against Bloody Sunday. At best he's thick as dog shit, at worst a direspectful IRA supporting cuntbag. H I don't think thinking Bloody Sunday was shit - or even thinking Ireland should be united - automatically makes you an IRA supporter. Not automatically no. H
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Post by bolders on Jan 4, 2018 15:40:37 GMT
I respect everyone's opinion as ever but I just can't get my head around where McClean s logic comes from, he says he won't wear a poppy because of bloody Sunday in his home town of Derry NORTHERN IRELAND, but then he tells BBC man Colin Murray NOT to call him NORTHERN IRISH, he's either proud of where he comes from and shows support or he's not, if he can't make his mind up how are we expected to understand where he's coming from ! If i had been Colin Murray id of kept calling him Northern Irish or even British and its Londonderry isnt it? ;-)
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Post by Block 22 on Jan 4, 2018 15:42:44 GMT
Turning his back on the English national anthem.. do you have an excuse for that one? Disrespectful to the country that his home is in, his job is in.. more and more and more. It's done for what it, again, symbolises to him and the people he grew up with. I really don't give a shit what he does. People castigate our own players for not singing it, and I think that's a load of bollocks too. I think you can live somewhere, like living there, like the people living there and still not subscribe to every last aspect of their culture or agree with every single thing their government does or has done. It really doesn't have to be that black and white. He’s happy to enjoy the shit loads of money he gets from working in this country, have a house in this country and many other benefits he gets from living here, so why can’t he have the decency to respect the nation? Benefits may I add that he would possibly never have enjoyed if it wasn’t for our military. If he simply can’t have that respect, then he has to accept that some people, like myself and a lot of others, wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire, disrespectful cunt.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 4, 2018 15:45:29 GMT
I don't think thinking Bloody Sunday was shit - or even thinking Ireland should be united - automatically makes you an IRA supporter. Not automatically no. H So is there any evidence beyond that that he's an IRA supporter?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 4, 2018 15:47:37 GMT
It's done for what it, again, symbolises to him and the people he grew up with. I really don't give a shit what he does. People castigate our own players for not singing it, and I think that's a load of bollocks too. I think you can live somewhere, like living there, like the people living there and still not subscribe to every last aspect of their culture or agree with every single thing their government does or has done. It really doesn't have to be that black and white. He’s happy to enjoy the shit loads of money he gets from working in this country, have a house in this country and many other benefits he gets from living here, so why can’t he have the decency to respect the nation? Benefits may I add that he would possibly never have enjoyed if it wasn’t for our military. If he simply can’t have that respect, then he has to accept that some people, like myself and a lot of others, wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire, disrespectful cunt. I think you can respect the nation without wearing a poppy or being arsed about the national anthem. I don't think it's that black and white.
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Post by Block 22 on Jan 4, 2018 15:50:43 GMT
He’s happy to enjoy the shit loads of money he gets from working in this country, have a house in this country and many other benefits he gets from living here, so why can’t he have the decency to respect the nation? Benefits may I add that he would possibly never have enjoyed if it wasn’t for our military. If he simply can’t have that respect, then he has to accept that some people, like myself and a lot of others, wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire, disrespectful cunt. I think you can respect the nation without wearing a poppy or being arsed about the national anthem. I don't think it's that black and white. He went out of his way to disrespect the flag and the anthem though. Players from all over the world manage it when we’ve probably had much much worse conflicts with their retrospective nations. History is history, now is now and he’s a hell of a lot better off thanks to his country than he would ever be in his own.
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Post by RAF on Jan 4, 2018 15:51:30 GMT
So is there any evidence beyond that that he's an IRA supporter? I said at worst that is what he is. Although looking at his profile it's not hard to make an educated guess. He's been brought up with hatred for Britain and it's Forces that is clear as day. H
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 4, 2018 16:02:48 GMT
So is there any evidence beyond that that he's an IRA supporter? I said at worst that is what he is. Although looking at his profile it's not hard to make an educated guess. He's been brought up with hatred for Britain and it's Forces that is clear as day. H I'm sure he's not a fan of its forces, then again if they'd murdered a bunch of people in the town I grew up in I suspect I wouldn't be either. I don't think that necessarily equates to a hatred of Britain.
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Post by tuum on Jan 4, 2018 16:04:41 GMT
I respect everyone's opinion as ever but I just can't get my head around where McClean s logic comes from, he says he won't wear a poppy because of bloody Sunday in his home town of Derry NORTHERN IRELAND, but then he tells BBC man Colin Murray NOT to call him NORTHERN IRISH, he's either proud of where he comes from and shows support or he's not, if he can't make his mind up how are we expected to understand where he's coming from ! I work with a guy from Derry. He considers himself to be Irish and does not accept being called Northern Irish. He's a good bloke so we ignore his request and call him British instead. Although he was born in Derry and is British he only has one passport and that is an Irish one. He does not want a UK one.
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Post by RAF on Jan 4, 2018 16:15:37 GMT
I said at worst that is what he is. Although looking at his profile it's not hard to make an educated guess. He's been brought up with hatred for Britain and it's Forces that is clear as day. H I'm sure he's not a fan of its forces, then again if they'd murdered a bunch of people in the town I grew up in I suspect I wouldn't be either. I don't think that necessarily equates to a hatred of Britain. Turning your back on your own National Anthem, telling a reporter not to call him 'Northern Irish', refusing to wear a poppy? It's got a few hallmarks you'll have to agree. At least you aren't arguing that he isn't thick as dogshit anyway. H
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 4, 2018 16:38:37 GMT
I'm sure he's not a fan of its forces, then again if they'd murdered a bunch of people in the town I grew up in I suspect I wouldn't be either. I don't think that necessarily equates to a hatred of Britain. Turning your back on your own National Anthem, telling a reporter not to call him 'Northern Irish', refusing to wear a poppy? It's got a few hallmarks you'll have to agree. At least you aren't arguing that he isn't thick as dogshit anyway. H He's clearly not going to win any prizes for astrophysics any time soon. Again, I don't think any of that stuff necessarily equates to hating Britain as a country, just to what some of those things (the poppy in particular) represent in Derry.
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Post by RAF on Jan 4, 2018 16:53:28 GMT
Turning your back on your own National Anthem, telling a reporter not to call him 'Northern Irish', refusing to wear a poppy? It's got a few hallmarks you'll have to agree. At least you aren't arguing that he isn't thick as dogshit anyway. H He's clearly not going to win any prizes for astrophysics any time soon. Again, I don't think any of that stuff necessarily equates to hating Britain as a country, just to what some of those things (the poppy in particular) represent in Derry. It's fairly clear he doesn't want to be British. H
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Post by waffles on Jan 4, 2018 16:56:50 GMT
Follow the money, it's dead simple, he earns more in England than he ever will anywhere else, some of the tax he pays will go to our armed forces, he must be ok with that, why?????.........money.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 4, 2018 16:58:13 GMT
It wasn't me.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 4, 2018 17:07:26 GMT
He's clearly not going to win any prizes for astrophysics any time soon. Again, I don't think any of that stuff necessarily equates to hating Britain as a country, just to what some of those things (the poppy in particular) represent in Derry. It's fairly clear he doesn't want to be British. H You can not want to be something without hating it.
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