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Post by PotteringThrough on Dec 28, 2017 13:08:01 GMT
What about goals scored? It's interesting that you bring up games played as a negative compared to Silva and Sane. Surely he deserves credit for keeping fit and injury free? You want your best players playing all the time - that's what he's giving you. Whilst Silva has been out they've continued their winning streak - De Bruyne has been a big part of that. Silva has been out because he lost his child, and Sane is just out on peps rotation. As I said - you're using it as a negative because he's fit ad available for every game & his manager wants to use him? Regardless of Silvas personal situation, which in no way is this a slight or taking anything away from that, De Bruyne has played every game and kept injury and suspension free. Pep clearly trusts him and the team have kept winning. He's been a crucial part of that - as demonstrated last night when he set up the winner.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Dec 28, 2017 13:11:06 GMT
Based on this season so far - More touches, more assists, more tackles, more goals (than most - coutinho has 1 more, sane the same), more passes. Add into that consistency - only Willian has played 20 prem games this season, like De Bruyne, and then De Bruyne has played nearly double the time on the pitch. He's doing it week in week out. He has been excellent this season. All those players have less game time and have really similar stats. For a player who's supposedly the best in the league then I just see that as overrated. Sorry. In some of them they're not comparable - the others are way behind in some, they're all miles behind in the tackles. Because you've picked a big pool of players then you can make your sweeping statement but it's simply not true. Pick one of your players to compare against and you'll see the comparisons across all those areas favour De Bruyne. For example if we did it Top Trumps style which card would you want? Playing more games, being on the pitch for more minutes is not a negative either - especially when they're contributing.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Dec 28, 2017 13:11:53 GMT
Silva has been out because he lost his child, and Sane is just out on peps rotation. As I said - you're using it as a negative because he's fit ad available for every game & his manager wants to use him? Regardless of Silvas personal situation, which in no way is this a slight or taking anything away from that, De Bruyne has played every game and kept injury and suspension free. Pep clearly trusts him and the team have kept winning. He's been a crucial part of that - as demonstrated last night when he set up the winner. De Bruyne was off the pace last night so maybe Pep is overusing him. Honestly it's not just me saying that.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Dec 28, 2017 13:13:08 GMT
All those players have less game time and have really similar stats. For a player who's supposedly the best in the league then I just see that as overrated. Sorry. In some of them they're not comparable - the others are way behind in some, they're all miles behind in the tackles. Because you've picked a big pool of players then you can make your sweeping statement but it's simply not true. Pick one of your players to compare against and you'll see the comparisons across all those areas favour De Bruyne. For example if we did it Top Trumps style which card would you want? Playing more games, being on the pitch for more minutes is not a negative either - especially when they're contributing. I'm not saying he's bad by any means, just that he's overrated when the only stats we can pull up is staying fit and tackling.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Dec 28, 2017 13:16:16 GMT
I still don't think he's that good.
He's obviously improved but I still don't think he's anything special. He's benefiting from playing with world class players like Dr Bruyne and Silva. Barring the odd exception, the majority of his goals are tap ins, finishing off exquisite team moves.
I saw him a couple of games ago miss 2 absolute sitters which were pretty much embarrassing they were that poor. Both simple tap ins from a few yards out. He still ended up with a goal to his name when he had a third bite at the cherry and got another tap in.
Don't get me wrong, he deserves credit for being in the right place at the right time, but nine times out of ten it's Silva or De Bruyne who have the magic to open up defences, not Sterling.
Don't expect him to start being the player that starts pulling the strings for England. He isn't the type of player to find that defence splitting pass, or create a goal opportunity from nothing.
He'll be relying on the likes of Henderson and Alli to create his goalscoring chances. And that's where it will all go wrong.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Dec 28, 2017 13:18:42 GMT
As I said - you're using it as a negative because he's fit ad available for every game & his manager wants to use him? Regardless of Silvas personal situation, which in no way is this a slight or taking anything away from that, De Bruyne has played every game and kept injury and suspension free. Pep clearly trusts him and the team have kept winning. He's been a crucial part of that - as demonstrated last night when he set up the winner. De Bruyne was off the pace last night so maybe Pep is overusing him. Honestly it's not just me saying that. Off the pace but made the goal. Winning streak continues- job done. Seriously, you asked before what has he done more than the others before and I gave you quite a few things where he is outperforming them. I appreciate that you disagree but I honestly can't see why you think he is massively overrated. Ok maybe he's getting all the acolades and majority of the credit but you're making out as though he adds very little to the team and he is only doing so well because of all the others around him.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Dec 28, 2017 13:24:18 GMT
De Bruyne was off the pace last night so maybe Pep is overusing him. Honestly it's not just me saying that. Off the pace but made the goal. Winning streak continues- job done. Seriously, you asked before what has he done more than the others before and I gave you quite a few things where he is outperforming them. I appreciate that you disagree but I honestly can't see why you think he is massively overrated. Ok maybe he's getting all the acolades and majority of the credit but you're making out as though he adds very little to the team and he is only doing so well because of all the others around him. I don't see staying fit and tackles as something to highlight him better than people like Coutinho or Pogba. Or at least not much better.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Dec 28, 2017 13:34:51 GMT
Off the pace but made the goal. Winning streak continues- job done. Seriously, you asked before what has he done more than the others before and I gave you quite a few things where he is outperforming them. I appreciate that you disagree but I honestly can't see why you think he is massively overrated. Ok maybe he's getting all the acolades and majority of the credit but you're making out as though he adds very little to the team and he is only doing so well because of all the others around him. I don't see staying fit and tackles as something to highlight him better than people like Coutinho or Pogba. Or at least not much better. Pogba missed games because of suspension for a stupid red card tackle Coutinho dropped because he wanted to leave Funny you pick those two who have played less for stupid reasons. Maybe these are more important to focus on, goals & assists: De Bruyne - 15 Coutinho - 13 Pogba - 8 Passes De Bruyne - 1,498 Coutinho - 649 Pogba - 699
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Dec 28, 2017 13:42:13 GMT
I don't see staying fit and tackles as something to highlight him better than people like Coutinho or Pogba. Or at least not much better. Pogba missed games because of suspension for a stupid red card tackle Coutinho dropped because he wanted to leave Funny you pick those two who have played less for stupid reasons. Maybe these are more important to focus on, goals & assists: De Bruyne - 15 Coutinho - 13 Pogba - 8 Passes De Bruyne - 1,498 Coutinho - 649 Pogba - 699 Yes my point is they play half the time and are still just as influential.
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Post by Davef on Dec 28, 2017 13:43:53 GMT
So everytime I disagree with you it's just trolling in your eyes. A lot of people have the same opinion. Even female Stoke City player Tash Tezgel. Go look on her twitter. Is she a attention seeking troll talking bollocks as well? I didn't say that did I. Don't put words in my mouth. And I don't care what Tash Whatever her name is says about De Bruyne.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Dec 28, 2017 14:05:39 GMT
Pogba missed games because of suspension for a stupid red card tackle Coutinho dropped because he wanted to leave Funny you pick those two who have played less for stupid reasons. Maybe these are more important to focus on, goals & assists: De Bruyne - 15 Coutinho - 13 Pogba - 8 Passes De Bruyne - 1,498 Coutinho - 649 Pogba - 699 Yes my point is they play half the time and are still just as influential. Clearly... They've both played more than half the games and have done less than half the passes. You don't want your midfielders tackling I presume because it doesn't fit with your agenda.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Dec 28, 2017 14:07:34 GMT
Yes my point is they play half the time and are still just as influential. Clearly... They've both played more than half the games and have done less than half the passes. You don't want your midfielders tackling I presume because it doesn't fit with your agenda. Depends which midfielder. I'd like Fernandinho doing most of the tackling. I look for goals and assists from De Bruyne, not tackling.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Dec 28, 2017 14:09:46 GMT
Clearly... They've both played more than half the games and have done less than half the passes. You don't want your midfielders tackling I presume because it doesn't fit with your agenda. Depends which midfielder. I'd like Fernandinho doing most of the tackling. I look for goals and assists from De Bruyne, not tackling. And he's done more of that (G&A) than any of the players you mentioned before ...
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Dec 28, 2017 14:15:22 GMT
Depends which midfielder. I'd like Fernandinho doing most of the tackling. I look for goals and assists from De Bruyne, not tackling. And he's done more of that (G&A) than any of the players you mentioned before ... He's got one more assist. For the time he's played and for the way people talk about him I'd expect a lot more. That's why to me he is overrated. Not bad. Just overrated.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Dec 28, 2017 14:34:01 GMT
And he's done more of that (G&A) than any of the players you mentioned before ... He's got one more assist. For the time he's played and for the way people talk about him I'd expect a lot more. That's why to me he is overrated. Not bad. Just overrated. Shall we ask Pep to drop him for a few games so the others can catch up and see how many more assists they weigh in with? Ps - on assists: De Bruyne - 9 Sane - 8 (he has played 2 games less) Silva - 8 (he has played 2 games less) He's not exactly miles ahead in games is he. Of the others: Coutinho - 6 Pogba - 5 Willian - 3 Sane and De Bruyne aren't exactly like for like. I would go as far to say Sane is closer to Sterling in how they play and their positions. Sterling 13 goals and 4 assists, nowhere near De Bruyne on tackles though.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Dec 28, 2017 15:44:44 GMT
He's got one more assist. For the time he's played and for the way people talk about him I'd expect a lot more. That's why to me he is overrated. Not bad. Just overrated. Shall we ask Pep to drop him for a few games so the others can catch up and see how many more assists they weigh in with? Ps - on assists: De Bruyne - 9 Sane - 8 (he has played 2 games less) Silva - 8 (he has played 2 games less) He's not exactly miles ahead in games is he. Of the others: Coutinho - 6 Pogba - 5 Willian - 3 Sane and De Bruyne aren't exactly like for like. I would go as far to say Sane is closer to Sterling in how they play and their positions. Sterling 13 goals and 4 assists, nowhere near De Bruyne on tackles though. 2 games less makes a big difference though. Same for Coutinho, Pogba and Willian who have less minutes than him. For this master class creative player I'd think he'd have more to shout for him than just tackles. Not a patch on Ozil, and Ozil doesn't get anywhere near enough credit. I can literally think of 4 central midfielders I would have over him at Stoke. Pogba, Coutinho, Eriksen, Ozil. Still a really great player who I like, but people getting a bit too excited about him this season.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Dec 28, 2017 16:09:19 GMT
Shall we ask Pep to drop him for a few games so the others can catch up and see how many more assists they weigh in with? Ps - on assists: De Bruyne - 9 Sane - 8 (he has played 2 games less) Silva - 8 (he has played 2 games less) He's not exactly miles ahead in games is he. Of the others: Coutinho - 6 Pogba - 5 Willian - 3 Sane and De Bruyne aren't exactly like for like. I would go as far to say Sane is closer to Sterling in how they play and their positions. Sterling 13 goals and 4 assists, nowhere near De Bruyne on tackles though. 2 games less makes a big difference though. Same for Coutinho, Pogba and Willian who have less minutes than him. For this master class creative player I'd think he'd have more to shout for him than just tackles. Not a patch on Ozil, and Ozil doesn't get anywhere near enough credit. I can literally think of 4 central midfielders I would have over him at Stoke. Pogba, Coutinho, Eriksen, Ozil. Still a really great player who I like, but people getting a bit too excited about him this season. Of course it does, unbelievably big difference. Massive in fact. So who are you having in your central midfield with those guys? You've got De Bruyne doing both the attacking part and the defending part but thats not what you're after. (More stats for you to ignore: Average Games for Assists - based on appearances De Bruyne - 2.22 (Every 2.22 games he's provided an assist) Ozil - 3.2 Eriksen - 4 Same stat but goals: De Bruyne - 3.33 Ozil - 4 Eriksen - 4
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 16:59:55 GMT
Needs to add more to his game Until you tell me what more he does than Pogba, Coutinho, Sane, Willian, Silva then I can call him overrated. People on this thread have already proved that he's doing more than all those players you've mentioned so o don't really need to expand. Also I don't really know why you're bringing all those other midfielders into the debate? Unless you believe all those to be overrated as well?
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Post by GeneralFaye on Dec 28, 2017 18:49:47 GMT
You sir, are back to talking attention seeking bollocks 👍 Go on the blue moon forum and tell them they're talking bollocks as well then. De Bruyne is great with both feet, passing and shooting. Silva barely uses his right. KDB is better at crossing a ball and set pieces in general than Silva. I love David Silva and think he's vastly underrated on a global scale but KDB has more strings to his bow than Silva I'm afraid to say. Both are excellent at passing through the eye of the needle so you can't even say Silva is better in that department either. Yes, Silva is great at keeping possession but you've got to think KDB is culpable of giving the ball away more because he is so positive and trying to me things happen. Overrated he certainly is not.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Dec 28, 2017 19:31:38 GMT
2 games less makes a big difference though. Same for Coutinho, Pogba and Willian who have less minutes than him. For this master class creative player I'd think he'd have more to shout for him than just tackles. Not a patch on Ozil, and Ozil doesn't get anywhere near enough credit. I can literally think of 4 central midfielders I would have over him at Stoke. Pogba, Coutinho, Eriksen, Ozil. Still a really great player who I like, but people getting a bit too excited about him this season. Of course it does, unbelievably big difference. Massive in fact. So who are you having in your central midfield with those guys? You've got De Bruyne doing both the attacking part and the defending part but thats not what you're after. (More stats for you to ignore: Average Games for Assists - based on appearances De Bruyne - 2.22 (Every 2.22 games he's provided an assist) Ozil - 3.2 Eriksen - 4 Same stat but goals: De Bruyne - 3.33 Ozil - 4 Eriksen - 4 Out of all the attacking midfielders this league has to offer there is 4 players I'd choose over him If I wanted a midfielder that can do everything I'd take Pogba. Let's not forget De Bruyne has been supplying to the likes of Jesus and Aguero where as Ozil has been supplying for Giroud.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Dec 28, 2017 19:32:51 GMT
Go on the blue moon forum and tell them they're talking bollocks as well then. De Bruyne is great with both feet, passing and shooting. Silva barely uses his right. KDB is better at crossing a ball and set pieces in general than Silva. I love David Silva and think he's vastly underrated on a global scale but KDB has more strings to his bow than Silva I'm afraid to say. Both are excellent at passing through the eye of the needle so you can't even say Silva is better in that department either. Yes, Silva is great at keeping possession but you've got to think KDB is culpable of giving the ball away more because he is so positive and trying to me things happen. Overrated he certainly is not. This season Silva has been better, it's only now he's had some personal issues and that's why he's missing out on game time. Just don't forget that I'm not calling De Bruyne bad by any means.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Dec 28, 2017 19:34:09 GMT
Until you tell me what more he does than Pogba, Coutinho, Sane, Willian, Silva then I can call him overrated. People on this thread have already proved that he's doing more than all those players you've mentioned so o don't really need to expand. Also I don't really know why you're bringing all those other midfielders into the debate? Unless you believe all those to be overrated as well? No I believe them to be just as good as De Bruyne. De Bruyne takes more credit especially with the bias on MOTD this season. Completes a 30 yard pass and Keown is saying that's why he's world class. Pogba does the same thing and it won't get mentioned. Also nobody has proved anything, only that De Bruyne has made more tackles and has 1 more assist having played every single game this season. Whilst players like Coutinho getting better returns on limited game time.
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Post by scfc75 on Dec 28, 2017 19:36:21 GMT
Of course it does, unbelievably big difference. Massive in fact. So who are you having in your central midfield with those guys? You've got De Bruyne doing both the attacking part and the defending part but thats not what you're after. (More stats for you to ignore: Average Games for Assists - based on appearances De Bruyne - 2.22 (Every 2.22 games he's provided an assist) Ozil - 3.2 Eriksen - 4 Same stat but goals: De Bruyne - 3.33 Ozil - 4 Eriksen - 4 Out of all the attacking midfielders this league has to offer there is 4 players I'd choose over him If I wanted a midfielder that can do everything I'd take Pogba. Let's not forget De Bruyne has been supplying to the likes of Jesus and Aguero where as Ozil has been supplying for Giroud. I always find assist stats odd because they don't tell the true quality of the player, they're as reliant on who they are assisting. As an attacking midfielder I could play 10 quality through balls to a striker and he could balls them all up. I have zero assists. A defender could then smash 1 aimless punt forward which a forward heads over the keeper, and the defender has more assists.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Dec 28, 2017 19:37:25 GMT
Out of all the attacking midfielders this league has to offer there is 4 players I'd choose over him If I wanted a midfielder that can do everything I'd take Pogba. Let's not forget De Bruyne has been supplying to the likes of Jesus and Aguero where as Ozil has been supplying for Giroud. I always find assist stats odd because they don't tell the true quality of the player, they're as reliant on who they are assisting. As an attacking midfielder I could play 10 quality through balls to a striker and he could balls them all up. I have zero assists. A defender could then smash 1 aimless punt forward which a forward heads over the keeper, and the defender has more assists. You're right. And if you watch Ozil you will see how influential he is in Arsenals attack yet Giroud can balls up so many chances for him.
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Post by Mint Berry Barks on Dec 28, 2017 19:48:47 GMT
He's finally added goals to his game, which makes him a nightmare for any defence. There were times at Liverpool where he'd dribble through 2 or 3 defenders and then roll it to the keeper because he couldn't finish.
Oh for a World Cup where Kane, Alli, Rashford and Sterling all turn up..
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 28, 2017 19:50:13 GMT
He's finally added goals to his game, which makes him a nightmare for any defence. There were times at Liverpool where he'd dribble through 2 or 3 defenders and then roll it to the keeper because he couldn't finish. Oh for a World Cup where Kane, Alli, Rashford and Sterling all turn up.. Oh for a manager that will select them all and not have Henderson behind them!
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Post by Mint Berry Barks on Dec 28, 2017 19:55:24 GMT
He's finally added goals to his game, which makes him a nightmare for any defence. There were times at Liverpool where he'd dribble through 2 or 3 defenders and then roll it to the keeper because he couldn't finish. Oh for a World Cup where Kane, Alli, Rashford and Sterling all turn up.. Oh for a manager that will select them all and not have Henderson behind them! It's actually not a bad little team is it? Dier Lallana/Someone Sterling Alli Rashford Kane I mean our defence is going to be shocking but at least it'd be a fun way to go out in the last 16.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 28, 2017 20:05:12 GMT
Oh for a manager that will select them all and not have Henderson behind them! It's actually not a bad little team is it? Dier Lallana/Someone Sterling Alli Rashford Kane I mean our defence is going to be shocking but at least it'd be a fun way to go out in the last 16. Yeah we have some excellent attacking options. They've just got to perform in an England shirt now. We've got the full backs to make the attacking side work too. It's an exciting attacking side, they've just got to be allowed to express themselves and have a bit of fun.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Dec 28, 2017 20:11:07 GMT
It's actually not a bad little team is it? Dier Lallana/Someone Sterling Alli Rashford Kane I mean our defence is going to be shocking but at least it'd be a fun way to go out in the last 16. Yeah we have some excellent attacking options. They've just got to perform in an England shirt now. We've got the full backs to make the attacking side work too. It's an exciting attacking side, they've just got to be allowed to express themselves and have a bit of fun. And Stones. Pep has worked well with him just like Raheem.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Dec 28, 2017 20:16:06 GMT
Out of all the attacking midfielders this league has to offer there is 4 players I'd choose over him If I wanted a midfielder that can do everything I'd take Pogba. Let's not forget De Bruyne has been supplying to the likes of Jesus and Aguero where as Ozil has been supplying for Giroud. I always find assist stats odd because they don't tell the true quality of the player, they're as reliant on who they are assisting. As an attacking midfielder I could play 10 quality through balls to a striker and he could balls them all up. I have zero assists. A defender could then smash 1 aimless punt forward which a forward heads over the keeper, and the defender has more assists. To be honest that's why I mentioned the touches, the passes and the tackles stats - all of which De Bruyne is ahead of the other players named on. His influence on the matches he plays in is far greater reaching. He does more.
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