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Post by robwahlmann on Dec 24, 2017 9:31:54 GMT
I still rate him highly as he is winning everything in the air and is also the defender that blocks most of the shots at our goal. In my view still our most important defender! Horror mistake today though! Not for the first time this season Far are the days when posters here used to clamour for 'Ryan for England' Being part of a defence that are leaking goals won't help every individual either. I don't think you will see the old Ryan before some confidence is installed to our defence. Playing in a two with Zouma or Bruno will help, but we also need a midfield able to protect the defence. We need to have a lot of pressure on the opponent when we don't have the ball to regain possession. When this doesn't happen playing in defence makes a world of difference. I still belive in Ryan, but Fletcher isn't mobile enough in the system we play. Shaq is another factor as he is our most valuable player going forward, but defensively he is a really weak point. And we need to have the same two players at fullback for most of the games to install stability and relations between the defenders.
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Post by rondogmcmuffin on Dec 24, 2017 9:34:42 GMT
At the game I thought he'd done alright.
Watching the highlights he was anywhere but where he needed to be.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Dec 24, 2017 9:38:41 GMT
That west brom goal is shocking from Ryan.
He is costing us at the moment but we have to have confidence in him, keep him in a stable familiar back line and sign a proper defensive midfielder. There is doubt going through the whole back line, we have to stick with him. Have faith in him, he deserves it
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2017 9:43:45 GMT
If people looked past the fact he’s English and been here a long time, they would realise that he’s just not that good. If he arrived 2 seasons ago and had a foreign name, people would be calling out for him to be benched.
He’s slow, not that intelligent of a footballer, he lacks positional sense and his passing is comical. He will always put a shift in and put his body on the line but it’s not enough.
He’s also a bloody awful captain and when we concede his head is usually the first to drop. You never see him rallying the troops.
He will go down as a Stoke legend I’m sure but all legends come to an end. The contract extension was rediculous and another example of the lack of ambition shown by the club. He needs replacing.
Zouma and Bruno should be the pairing for the remainder of the season.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2017 9:44:47 GMT
The fact we have to keep saying he needs a partner, he needs this.
Basically we need someone carry him like Faye and Huth did, if that’s the case he’s the problem not the man next to him.
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Post by andystokey on Dec 24, 2017 11:41:26 GMT
The ease with which attacking forwards run directly past Shawcross and in the gap is astonishing. Ryan needs a third eye 👁 👁 👁 I think you have totally read this wrong as Captain and main CB Ryan positions the line for offside. He's actually not in a bad position. The two full backs looking along that line should be at least level and ideally a yard further forward. The ball over the top would have been marginally offside if Wimmer hadn't played him on, worse still from a position of no threat on the left. Ryan has no idea at the moment if he can trust everyone else to move with him. The amount of times this season we have been caught with a simple ball over the top is shocking. The reason Ryan looked so good with Huth is they were on 20 yards of bungee cord between them. Ryan and BMI get that not too bad. But the two wide have totally lost their sense of position.
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Post by ElworthPotter on Dec 24, 2017 11:45:24 GMT
Bad mistake for the goal but aside from that yesterday he was solid. Rondon is a very good target man and Ryan won more than his fair share yesterday. Is he playing his best football for us? No. But he doesn’t need dropping.
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Post by juiceandbits on Dec 24, 2017 11:49:52 GMT
That long ball/chip to Crouch pisses me off when we could just keep the ball (as Edwards was prone to do, which was nice), but he is our leader and we need him.
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Post by block23 on Dec 24, 2017 12:09:09 GMT
The ease with which attacking forwards run directly past Shawcross and in the gap is astonishing. Ryan needs a third eye 👁 👁 👁 I think you have totally read this wrong as Captain and main CB Ryan positions the line for offside. He's actually not in a bad position. The two full backs looking along that line should be at least level and ideally a yard further forward. The ball over the top would have been marginally offside if Wimmer hadn't played him on, worse still from a position of no threat on the left. Ryan has no idea at the moment if he can trust everyone else to move with him. The amount of times this season we have been caught with a simple ball over the top is shocking. The reason Ryan looked so good with Huth is they were on 20 yards of bungee cord between them. Ryan and BMI get that not too bad. But the two wide have totally lost their sense of position. He had a reasonably good game overall. The goal has to go down as his fault because he needs to read if his defensive partners are in line with him. He pushed up for offside, and Wimmer played him onside, that is what you get for constant changing of defensive formation and personnel, accepting somtimes the latter point will be forced. I think your general point is spot on. As for criticism of the chip ball into Crouch, surely this is a tactic the manager is asking us to play, people should blame MH for that one if they don’t like it, not Ryan.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2017 12:09:36 GMT
That step up for their goal was god awful.
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Post by alster on Dec 24, 2017 12:23:07 GMT
I think you have totally read this wrong as Captain and main CB Ryan positions the line for offside. He's actually not in a bad position. The two full backs looking along that line should be at least level and ideally a yard further forward. The ball over the top would have been marginally offside if Wimmer hadn't played him on, worse still from a position of no threat on the left. Ryan has no idea at the moment if he can trust everyone else to move with him. The amount of times this season we have been caught with a simple ball over the top is shocking. The reason Ryan looked so good with Huth is they were on 20 yards of bungee cord between them. Ryan and BMI get that not too bad. But the two wide have totally lost their sense of position. He had a reasonably good game overall. The goal has to go down as his fault because he needs to read if his defensive partners are in line with him. He pushed up for offside, and Wimmer played him onside, that is what you get for constant changing of defensive formation and personnel, accepting somtimes the latter point will be forced. I think your general point is spot on. As for criticism of the chip ball into Crouch, surely this is a tactic the manager is asking us to play, people should blame MH for that one if they don’t like it, not Ryan. It's a lazy tactic and isn't proving very productive at all god only knows why the manager is so obsessed with it. You do get the feeling that Ryan loves that easy option much more than he should.
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Post by block23 on Dec 24, 2017 12:49:00 GMT
He had a reasonably good game overall. The goal has to go down as his fault because he needs to read if his defensive partners are in line with him. He pushed up for offside, and Wimmer played him onside, that is what you get for constant changing of defensive formation and personnel, accepting somtimes the latter point will be forced. I think your general point is spot on. As for criticism of the chip ball into Crouch, surely this is a tactic the manager is asking us to play, people should blame MH for that one if they don’t like it, not Ryan. It's a lazy tactic and isn't proving very productive at all god only knows why the manager is so obsessed with it. You do get the feeling that Ryan loves that easy option much more than he should. But it the managers tactic. Not sure how you know what Ryan loves
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Post by slicko on Dec 24, 2017 12:50:05 GMT
The ease with which attacking forwards run directly past Shawcross and in the gap is astonishing. Ryan needs a third eye 👁 👁 👁 I think you have totally read this wrong as Captain and main CB Ryan positions the line for offside. He's actually not in a bad position. The two full backs looking along that line should be at least level and ideally a yard further forward. The ball over the top would have been marginally offside if Wimmer hadn't played him on, worse still from a position of no threat on the left. Ryan has no idea at the moment if he can trust everyone else to move with him. The amount of times this season we have been caught with a simple ball over the top is shocking. The reason Ryan looked so good with Huth is they were on 20 yards of bungee cord between them. Ryan and BMI get that not too bad. But the two wide have totally lost their sense of position. Good points Andy. Consider this, he is not even within touching distance of the opposition danger players. He would therefore if the offside trap failed, need to have quicker reactions and be a faster sprinter than the forward, which he is not. The MOTD replays neither show him attempting to catch his man or give Wimmer a bollocking. He is a good footballer, low on confidence.
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Post by numpty40 on Dec 24, 2017 12:57:00 GMT
If people looked past the fact he’s English and been here a long time, they would realise that he’s just not that good. If he arrived 2 seasons ago and had a foreign name, people would be calling out for him to be benched. He’s slow, not that intelligent of a footballer, he lacks positional sense and his passing is comical. He will always put a shift in and put his body on the line but it’s not enough. He’s also a bloody awful captain and when we concede his head is usually the first to drop. You never see him rallying the troops. He will go down as a Stoke legend I’m sure but all legends come to an end. The contract extension was rediculous and another example of the lack of ambition shown by the club. He needs replacing. Zouma and Bruno should be the pairing for the remainder of the season. The only bit you got right in that post is that he will go down as a Stoke legend.
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Post by alster on Dec 24, 2017 13:25:57 GMT
It's a lazy tactic and isn't proving very productive at all god only knows why the manager is so obsessed with it. You do get the feeling that Ryan loves that easy option much more than he should. But it the managers tactic. Not sure how you know what Ryan loves Hence the words "I get the feeling" as in I get the feeling he likes hoofing because he doesn't have to think about it or push his boundaries in any way.
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Post by shrewspotter on Dec 24, 2017 13:46:28 GMT
That step up for their goal was god awful. correct he just went forward a wee step causing Roydon to get in behind him . Poor defending to be fair. He should have back peddled and headed it clear.
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Post by ohbottom on Dec 24, 2017 13:52:23 GMT
But, but... he's in Garth's team of the week so he can't be all that bad surely....
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Post by rawli on Dec 24, 2017 14:10:00 GMT
That long ball/chip to Crouch pisses me off when we could just keep the ball (as Edwards was prone to do, which was nice), but he is our leader and we need him. Don't think he's a leader tbh. We are crying out for one.
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Post by miggoscfc on Dec 24, 2017 14:21:50 GMT
Whilst shawcross has no doubt been a great servant I've often thought he was over rated slightly. Don't get me wrong he should have always been a starter and one of the first names on the team sheet but I believe it's his CB pairing that's always made him look better than he is individually. Whether it was Cort, Faye, Huth and even Muniesa he seemed to make a great partnerships but these last few years whilst we have been swapping and changing regularly he has looked a shadow of the player he once was.
Once BMI is fit I'd be tempted to give him a rest as he must of played close to as many minutes as he did in the whole of last year already and give Butland the armband to continue his progression.
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Post by block23 on Dec 24, 2017 16:12:01 GMT
But it the managers tactic. Not sure how you know what Ryan loves Hence the words "I get the feeling" as in I get the feeling he likes hoofing because he doesn't have to think about it or push his boundaries in any way. Ok mate, I get the feeling he does what his manager asks him to do
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Post by slicko on Dec 24, 2017 18:27:36 GMT
But, but... he's in Garth's team of the week so he can't be all that bad surely.... He watches every player in every minute of every game to arrive at the unquestionable best ones. Garth is God-like. If Garth assembled a squad it would win the Champions league. “ Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Give Garth Crooks a fish and he will stab you with it.”
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Post by RAF on Dec 24, 2017 18:40:26 GMT
The fact we have to keep saying he needs a partner, he needs this. Basically we need someone carry him like Faye and Huth did, if that’s the case he’s the problem not the man next to him. That's quite some disrespectful horse spunk you have come out with there. H
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Post by owdestokie2 on Dec 24, 2017 18:57:35 GMT
Shawcross has been poor both in his play and in his captain role Your opinion IMHO. You’re talking shit. Shawcross is trying to cover across the back line without any form of support from midfield. Look at MH, his players (not team as we don’t have one), his tactics and his consistency at leaving players out to dry i.e Edwards, Diouf and Pieters. Of course we could bring Johnson back to shore up the defence with his attitude , pace, and experience Condsider the root cause not the problem on the untrained eye
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 24, 2017 19:58:26 GMT
If people looked past the fact he’s English and been here a long time, they would realise that he’s just not that good. If he arrived 2 seasons ago and had a foreign name, people would be calling out for him to be benched. He’s slow, not that intelligent of a footballer, he lacks positional sense and his passing is comical. He will always put a shift in and put his body on the line but it’s not enough. He’s also a bloody awful captain and when we concede his head is usually the first to drop. You never see him rallying the troops. He will go down as a Stoke legend I’m sure but all legends come to an end. The contract extension was rediculous and another example of the lack of ambition shown by the club. He needs replacing. Zouma and Bruno should be the pairing for the remainder of the season. I agree with the first part. Ryan has contributed loads to our club so he is given alot of slack. Probably too much now. Fans thinks of him like a local lad, if he was from a distant land he would not be given the same level of tolerance for some pretty average performances.
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Post by itsallgonepetetone on Dec 24, 2017 20:09:11 GMT
He simply not the player he was, arguably had his best seasons with powerful CB’s who carried and covered for him and was part of the protective cage. He shouldn’t have had his contract renewed at the cost and length it was, but the fact that he is s guaranteed starter shows how bad our defence is in general.
Zouma and BMI would always start before him IMO and I believe the 3 at the back is as much about accommodating him as anything else.
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Post by chrisparker on Dec 24, 2017 20:12:08 GMT
He is off form is all but right now there's absolutely no question that we're carrying him. Like most on here, I would agree that we should be looking to partner Zouma and Indi next week.
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Post by numpty40 on Dec 24, 2017 20:13:55 GMT
When Shawcross was out injured for 6 games we conceded 18 goals an won 4 points. With him in the side for the other 13 games we have conceded 22 goals and won 15 points. Believe me we are much better with Ryan in the team and he is the very least of our problems.
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sean
Academy Starlet
Posts: 236
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Post by sean on Dec 24, 2017 20:24:47 GMT
When Shawcross was out injured for 6 games we conceded 18 goals an won 4 points. With him in the side for the other 13 games we have conceded 22 goals and won 15 points. Believe me we are much better with Ryan in the team and he is the very least of our problems. I was just about to post the same, I really cannot believe some of the absolute bollocks being written on this thread about one of the best players I have seen wear our red and white stripes in my 40 odd years of watching us! Ryan is that good he would be playing alongside Denis in my best ever team. Faye apart he has made every other partner he has had look way better than they actually are just check the stats when he plays to when he does not and you will see we concede more and gain less points without him!! To those saying Zouma and Martins Indi is the way forward step away from the alcohol give your heads a wobble and then watch how many times Ryan has had to clean up their mistakes and be thankful we have such a great defender at our club.
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Post by professorplump on Dec 24, 2017 21:00:05 GMT
I think our biggest problem defensively this season is that we have had so many injuries and haven't been able to develop a settled unit. The different formations probably haven't helped either. Also the midfielders don't always give the defence much protection.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 24, 2017 21:40:36 GMT
I think our biggest problem defensively this season is that we have had so many injuries and haven't been able to develop a settled unit. The different formations probably haven't helped either. Also the midfielders don't always give the defence much protection. Spot on. I like five at the back but we haven't had enough players fit on a significant basis to make it work and having only two midfielders has left them exposed. Four with a defensive midfielder (Cameron - also having injury issues) looks more solid but makes us less flexible. However much I respect him I do think Shawcross is struggling at the moment and needs a rest. To me it looks like at times he's trying too hard and at other times the players around him are not on the same wavelength, Players at his stage of their career need to sit back and reassess. He can't be the main man anymore. He has to take the Huth role and bring someone else on - in a settled defensive unit.
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