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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Dec 5, 2017 19:11:42 GMT
Another Hughes signing that seemingly hasn't worked out. Either
a) Hughes hasn't got the best out of him
b) Hughes has made another poor signing
You can see at Swansea what happens when recruitment gets increasingly poor and players aren't replaced (Williams, Sigurdsson, Joe Allen for starters)
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Jese.
Dec 5, 2017 19:25:06 GMT
Post by march4 on Dec 5, 2017 19:25:06 GMT
The lad needs shipping out, IF this is true.
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Jese.
Dec 5, 2017 19:30:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 5, 2017 19:30:41 GMT
Another Hughes signing that seemingly hasn't worked out. Either a) Hughes hasn't got the best out of him b) Hughes has made another poor signing You can see at Swansea what happens when recruitment gets increasingly poor and players aren't replaced (Williams, Sigurdsson, Joe Allen for starters) And clubs make savings, £34 million in their case. No wonder they are struggling. Imagine us having, and losing Llorente and Sigurdsson? We'd be fucked, like them. You are right about the signings, too. We aren't improving the quality of the squad at present.
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Post by iglugluk on Dec 5, 2017 19:43:20 GMT
A worse headline would surely be: "Jese didn't give a shit about not coming on as a sub as he's really not that bothered about playing". I'm glad he's pissed off if it's true. They should all be bothered and all be desperate to play. Good point that...........remains to be seen if Hughes sees it that way. It seems to me there's a history of once a player falls out with the manager there's no way back for them.
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Jese.
Dec 5, 2017 20:10:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by Gods on Dec 5, 2017 20:10:53 GMT
I doubt we can just cancel his loan in January, we would need to pay off the remainder of his contract , thus freeing up no wages are all! If it is a season long loan, do we have to hope that either the parent club wants him back (unlikely) or that another club wants to buy him permanently (also rather unlikely on current form, you would think)? Yes, I think that's right, I'm sure we'd cancel it in a jiffy if we could, this one is just not happening is it!
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Jese.
Dec 5, 2017 21:52:08 GMT
Post by Miles Offside on Dec 5, 2017 21:52:08 GMT
The bizarre treatment of Diouf The repeated playing of an unfit Berahino, only to drop him after a summer of fitness work. Now this. You just have to applaud man management skills like that. He'll be playing left wing-back soon.
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Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 9:28:39 GMT
Post by FullerMagic on Dec 6, 2017 9:28:39 GMT
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Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 9:35:02 GMT
Post by scfc75 on Dec 6, 2017 9:35:02 GMT
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 6, 2017 9:36:10 GMT
Another Hughes signing that seemingly hasn't worked out. Either a) Hughes hasn't got the best out of him b) Hughes has made another poor signing You can see at Swansea what happens when recruitment gets increasingly poor and players aren't replaced (Williams, Sigurdsson, Joe Allen for starters) Or we are shopping in the bargain basement and these signings are gambles that may or may not pay off. If we actually signed the players that he wanted as first choices, would we be having these conversations?
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Post by alster on Dec 6, 2017 10:18:48 GMT
Another Hughes signing that seemingly hasn't worked out. Either a) Hughes hasn't got the best out of him b) Hughes has made another poor signing You can see at Swansea what happens when recruitment gets increasingly poor and players aren't replaced (Williams, Sigurdsson, Joe Allen for starters) Or we are shopping in the bargain basement and these signings are gambles that may or may not pay off. If we actually signed the players that he wanted as first choices, would we be having these conversations? That's a fair point its quite a frequent occurrence that players we've been strongly linked with and failed to land have gone elsewhere in the Prem and done really well and we end up with some shit alternative Soares/Johnson Maguire/Wimmer Lamina/Fletcher etc etc. The cheapskate/awkward nature of our transfer dealings is without doubt nowhere near as astute as they seem to think they're being.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2017 10:44:01 GMT
Had to blink to make sure it didn't say Bojan. Or Joselu. Or Muniesa...
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 6, 2017 10:53:51 GMT
Another Hughes signing that seemingly hasn't worked out. Either a) Hughes hasn't got the best out of him b) Hughes has made another poor signing You can see at Swansea what happens when recruitment gets increasingly poor and players aren't replaced (Williams, Sigurdsson, Joe Allen for starters) Or we are shopping in the bargain basement and these signings are gambles that may or may not pay off. If we actually signed the players that he wanted as first choices, would we be having these conversations? Up to a point Dave. But with strikers in particular, it seems these are his long-tracked, long-targeted choices and yet none seem suited to how he wants to play.
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Post by alster on Dec 6, 2017 11:03:25 GMT
Or we are shopping in the bargain basement and these signings are gambles that may or may not pay off. If we actually signed the players that he wanted as first choices, would we be having these conversations? Up to a point Dave. But with strikers in particular, it seems these are his long-tracked, long-targeted choices and yet none seem suited to how he wants to play. Which is also a fair observation. I don't think there's too much doubt that Berahino was first choice target for about 3 transfer windows. The fact that upon getting him the manager has no idea how to use him effectively and has cast him aside with very little patience or trying to adapt tactics/formations/selection to suit in order to save his own skin doesn't reflect well.
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Post by jeycov on Dec 6, 2017 11:11:44 GMT
Once we get ourselves in the position of “must win” games then Hughes is looking to players that are established at the club or have settled in straightaway The same applies to the youngsters Mathematically we were not safe from relegation until the last 3 or 4 games last season Such a pity that a reserve league is not available to help Like all players, Jesé needs game time alongside his new colleagues It’s good that he is disappointed, how he deals with it needs some nurturing
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Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 11:17:38 GMT
via mobile
Post by lordb on Dec 6, 2017 11:17:38 GMT
So... we don't have a tunnel and he ambled down the track looking a bit glum.
Hardly a fuck is it? Maybe it all kicked off later but seems like a non story to me.
Re reserves
200% we need to scrap U23 football and bring back midweek reserve leagues.
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Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 11:36:07 GMT
Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 6, 2017 11:36:07 GMT
Or we are shopping in the bargain basement and these signings are gambles that may or may not pay off. If we actually signed the players that he wanted as first choices, would we be having these conversations? Up to a point Dave. But with strikers in particular, it seems these are his long-tracked, long-targeted choices and yet none seem suited to how he wants to play. Diouf's goals record suggests he's reasonably well suited to how we want to play and I would absolutely agree that Hughes use of Diouf has been very strange, if not unfathomable, for some time. Was Berahino really the player Hughes wanted? To me, at least, he seems as far removed from being a Mark Hughes type player as it is feasibly possible to be. Crouch, though not my favourite player ever, is undeniably a very useful and effective option from the bench? I think if we could have picked any striker from what was available last summer, almost all of us would have felt Bony would have been a perfect fit. As it happens, he doesn't really appear that bothered about playing these days unless its against one of his former clubs but quite how anyone was supposed to know that I'm not so sure. What other strikers has he signed during his time here? Diouf, Bony and Berahino? Am I missing anyone? Is he shopping for a striker within his budget and accepting second best or has he been able to get the player he would truly want? We wouldn't spend the money Burnley did on Chris Wood. We wouldn't spend the money Southampton did on Gabbiadini.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 6, 2017 11:54:52 GMT
Up to a point Dave. But with strikers in particular, it seems these are his long-tracked, long-targeted choices and yet none seem suited to how he wants to play. Diouf's goals record suggests he's reasonably well suited to how we want to play and I would absolutely agree that Hughes use of Diouf has been very strange, if not unfathomable, for some time. Was Berahino really the player Hughes wanted? To me, at least, he seems as far removed from being a Mark Hughes type player as it is feasibly possible to be. Crouch, though not my favourite player ever, is undeniably a very useful and effective option from the bench? I think if we could have picked any striker from what was available last summer, almost all of us would have felt Bony would have been a perfect fit. As it happens, he doesn't really appear that bothered about playing these days unless its against one of his former clubs but quite how anyone was supposed to know that I'm not so sure. What other strikers has he signed during his time here? Diouf, Bony and Berahino? Am I missing anyone? Is he shopping for a striker within his budget and accepting second best or has he been able to get the player he would truly want? We wouldn't spend the money Burnley did on Chris Wood. We wouldn't spend the money Southampton did on Gabbiadini. Crouch wasn't a Hughes signing. Diouf's goal record is ok but he isn't a lone striker and never really has been. His hold up and link play isn't good enough to be. He's still the best option we've got. Joselu was, according to the club, a longtime target. His best work had come as part of a strike duo. The first reports of our interest in Berahino surfaced a good 2-3 windows before we actually signed him. And we actually bid £20m for him at one stage, which is more than either Wood or Gabbiadini cost. Again, his best form had been as part of a front two.
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Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 12:06:32 GMT
Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 6, 2017 12:06:32 GMT
Diouf's goals record suggests he's reasonably well suited to how we want to play and I would absolutely agree that Hughes use of Diouf has been very strange, if not unfathomable, for some time. Was Berahino really the player Hughes wanted? To me, at least, he seems as far removed from being a Mark Hughes type player as it is feasibly possible to be. Crouch, though not my favourite player ever, is undeniably a very useful and effective option from the bench? I think if we could have picked any striker from what was available last summer, almost all of us would have felt Bony would have been a perfect fit. As it happens, he doesn't really appear that bothered about playing these days unless its against one of his former clubs but quite how anyone was supposed to know that I'm not so sure. What other strikers has he signed during his time here? Diouf, Bony and Berahino? Am I missing anyone? Is he shopping for a striker within his budget and accepting second best or has he been able to get the player he would truly want? We wouldn't spend the money Burnley did on Chris Wood. We wouldn't spend the money Southampton did on Gabbiadini. Crouch wasn't a Hughes signing. Diouf's goal record is ok but he isn't a lone striker and never really has been. His hold up and link play isn't good enough to be. He's still the best option we've got. Joselu was, according to the club, a longtime target. His best work had come as part of a strike duo. The first reports of our interest in Berahino surfaced a good 2-3 windows before we actually signed him. And we actually bid £20m for him at one stage, which is more than either Wood or Gabbiadini cost. Again, his best form had been as part of a front two. I forgot about Joselu. Easy to do I guess. Newcastle fans will soon be forgetting about him as well or at least wishing they could. Diouf is quick and strong. His touch is crap, granted, but he's an aerial threat and he can run the channels. He's perfect to play the lone role ahead of our creative players. It is a mystery how Hughes has used him. Crouch wasn't a Hughes signing but he's better for us now than he was when he was ambling across the front line in a TP team. Berahino is the strange one for me. He's doesn't seem particularly quick, he is not good aerially and he has no physicality to speak of. If he is a player Hughes desperately wanted and was his no1 choice then fair enough...he'll be rightly slammed. If he was the player the transfer team identified as the solution to what Hughes was asking for, then all they all need to be asking themselves serious questions. Had we got Gabbiadini, would we have gone for Berahino? Had we got Dzeko (you'll probably laugh at that but Hughes thought he'd got him before we opened the door for Roma to step in), would we have gone for Diouf? Who knows? However you dress it up and wherever fault lies, our big money signings in all areas of the pitch simply haven't been good enough to date and that is the biggest reason why we find ourselves in the apparent mess we are in at the moment. EDIT - if you look at the managers comments about every signing, you will see he mentions him being a long time target, even referencing his interest in them at previous clubs. He noticed Choupo at the same time he signed Dembele for Fulham if you believe everything Hughes says. Doesn't make it true does it? Could he be towing the party line with the club? Maybe he does track all his signings for ages but he's just good at spotting a good player from a bad player.
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Post by alster on Dec 6, 2017 12:07:28 GMT
Up to a point Dave. But with strikers in particular, it seems these are his long-tracked, long-targeted choices and yet none seem suited to how he wants to play. Diouf's goals record suggests he's reasonably well suited to how we want to play and I would absolutely agree that Hughes use of Diouf has been very strange, if not unfathomable, for some time. Was Berahino really the player Hughes wanted? To me, at least, he seems as far removed from being a Mark Hughes type player as it is feasibly possible to be. Crouch, though not my favourite player ever, is undeniably a very useful and effective option from the bench? I think if we could have picked any striker from what was available last summer, almost all of us would have felt Bony would have been a perfect fit. As it happens, he doesn't really appear that bothered about playing these days unless its against one of his former clubs but quite how anyone was supposed to know that I'm not so sure. What other strikers has he signed during his time here? Diouf, Bony and Berahino? Am I missing anyone? Is he shopping for a striker within his budget and accepting second best or has he been able to get the player he would truly want? We wouldn't spend the money Burnley did on Chris Wood. We wouldn't spend the money Southampton did on Gabbiadini.
[/b] That doesn't really explain anything as we went on to spend more on Wimmer and Wood and Gabbiadini are almost opposites bit like Bony and Berahino. Smacks of a manager who doesn't really know what he wants spends £6 on a spanner and uses it as a hammer when he could have just bought a hammer for a fiver.
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Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 12:11:43 GMT
Post by alster on Dec 6, 2017 12:11:43 GMT
Crouch wasn't a Hughes signing. Diouf's goal record is ok but he isn't a lone striker and never really has been. His hold up and link play isn't good enough to be. He's still the best option we've got. Joselu was, according to the club, a longtime target. His best work had come as part of a strike duo. The first reports of our interest in Berahino surfaced a good 2-3 windows before we actually signed him. And we actually bid £20m for him at one stage, which is more than either Wood or Gabbiadini cost. Again, his best form had been as part of a front two. EDIT - if you look at the managers comments about every signing, you will see he mentions him being a long time target, even referencing his interest in them at previous clubs. He noticed Choupo at the same time he signed Dembele for Fulham if you believe everything Hughes says. Doesn't make it true does it? Could he be towing the party line with the club? Maybe he does track all his signings for ages but he's just good at spotting a good player from a bad player. I forgot about Joselu. Easy to do I guess. Newcastle fans will soon be forgetting about him as well or at least wishing they could. Diouf is quick and strong. His touch is crap, granted, but he's an aerial threat and he can run the channels. He's perfect to play the lone role ahead of our creative players. It is a mystery how Hughes has used him. Crouch wasn't a Hughes signing but he's better for us now than he was when he was ambling across the front line in a TP team. Berahino is the strange one for me. He's doesn't seem particularly quick, he is not good aerially and he has no physicality to speak of. If he is a player Hughes desperately wanted and was his no1 choice then fair enough...he'll be rightly slammed. If he was the player the transfer team identified as the solution to what Hughes was asking for, then all they all need to be asking themselves serious questions. Had we got Gabbiadini, would we have gone for Berahino? Had we got Dzeko (you'll probably laugh at that but Hughes thought he'd got him before we opened the door for Roma to step in), would we have gone for Diouf? Who knows? However you dress it up and wherever fault lies, our big money signings in all areas of the pitch simply haven't been good enough to date and that is the biggest reason why we find ourselves in the apparent mess we are in at the moment. Had we have got Gabbiadini what makes you think Hughes would adapt his tactics to suit him any more than he has done for anyone else he's played up top in the last couple of years. Whoever he plays we try to play aerial balls into him even Jese.
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Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 12:12:51 GMT
Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 6, 2017 12:12:51 GMT
Diouf's goals record suggests he's reasonably well suited to how we want to play and I would absolutely agree that Hughes use of Diouf has been very strange, if not unfathomable, for some time. Was Berahino really the player Hughes wanted? To me, at least, he seems as far removed from being a Mark Hughes type player as it is feasibly possible to be. Crouch, though not my favourite player ever, is undeniably a very useful and effective option from the bench? I think if we could have picked any striker from what was available last summer, almost all of us would have felt Bony would have been a perfect fit. As it happens, he doesn't really appear that bothered about playing these days unless its against one of his former clubs but quite how anyone was supposed to know that I'm not so sure. What other strikers has he signed during his time here? Diouf, Bony and Berahino? Am I missing anyone? Is he shopping for a striker within his budget and accepting second best or has he been able to get the player he would truly want? We wouldn't spend the money Burnley did on Chris Wood. We wouldn't spend the money Southampton did on Gabbiadini.
[/b] That doesn't really explain anything as we went on to spend more on Wimmer and Wood and Gabbiadini are almost opposites bit like Bony and Berahino. Smacks of a manager who doesn't really know what he wants spends £6 on a spanner and uses it as a hammer when he could have just bought a hammer for a fiver. [/quote] True but we wouldn't spend the money Burnley wanted for Keane at the time either. There is a whole list of preferred targets who've gone on to prove just how good they are and what great assets they could have been for our club. Now, I'm sure lots of club miss out on transfer targets and make a better fist of signing second choice options. The point being, we simply don't know who holds sway when it comes to signing these players. Under TP, it was always TP until the time that the owners felt we'd pissed too much money up the wall and the transfer team was brought into effect. We are led to believe that the manager has the final say but that was never good enough for TP. He threw his toys out of the pram and picked a battle he ultimately ended up losing. Maybe Hughes is just toeing the line and doing as good a job as possible in the circumstances.
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Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 12:14:23 GMT
Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 6, 2017 12:14:23 GMT
EDIT - if you look at the managers comments about every signing, you will see he mentions him being a long time target, even referencing his interest in them at previous clubs. He noticed Choupo at the same time he signed Dembele for Fulham if you believe everything Hughes says. Doesn't make it true does it? Could he be towing the party line with the club? Maybe he does track all his signings for ages but he's just good at spotting a good player from a bad player. I forgot about Joselu. Easy to do I guess. Newcastle fans will soon be forgetting about him as well or at least wishing they could. Diouf is quick and strong. His touch is crap, granted, but he's an aerial threat and he can run the channels. He's perfect to play the lone role ahead of our creative players. It is a mystery how Hughes has used him. Crouch wasn't a Hughes signing but he's better for us now than he was when he was ambling across the front line in a TP team. Berahino is the strange one for me. He's doesn't seem particularly quick, he is not good aerially and he has no physicality to speak of. If he is a player Hughes desperately wanted and was his no1 choice then fair enough...he'll be rightly slammed. If he was the player the transfer team identified as the solution to what Hughes was asking for, then all they all need to be asking themselves serious questions. Had we got Gabbiadini, would we have gone for Berahino? Had we got Dzeko (you'll probably laugh at that but Hughes thought he'd got him before we opened the door for Roma to step in), would we have gone for Diouf? Who knows? However you dress it up and wherever fault lies, our big money signings in all areas of the pitch simply haven't been good enough to date and that is the biggest reason why we find ourselves in the apparent mess we are in at the moment. Had we have got Gabbiadini what makes you think Hughes would adapt his tactics to suit him any more than he has done for anyone else he's played up top in the last couple of years. Whoever he plays we try to play aerial balls into him even Jese. Really? I don't remember us launching the ball up to Jese at all when he played up front v Man City. In fact, I don't remember us launching the ball up to anyone other than Crouch, hence people moaning that we piss about too much going backwards and sideways, very slowly.
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Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 12:29:18 GMT
Post by Gods on Dec 6, 2017 12:29:18 GMT
In fairness to TP he tended to keep his cock-ups in the single digit gaffe 6-8 million range (Kison, Palacios..) whereas Sparky and the current transfer team prefer to go for the full double digit blunder 12-18 million (Imbula, Berahino, Kev Wimmer).
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Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 12:46:04 GMT
Post by alster on Dec 6, 2017 12:46:04 GMT
Had we have got Gabbiadini what makes you think Hughes would adapt his tactics to suit him any more than he has done for anyone else he's played up top in the last couple of years. Whoever he plays we try to play aerial balls into him even Jese. Really? I don't remember us launching the ball up to Jese at all when he played up front v Man City. In fact, I don't remember us launching the ball up to anyone other than Crouch, hence people moaning that we piss about too much going backwards and sideways, very slowly. Yeah we go backwards sideways and then launch it in no matter who's up top. We play loads of aerial balls into Berahino when he plays that's why the majority of his better chances have been headers despite the fact he's not great in the air and has no history of scoring headed goals. Players like Berahino and Gabbiadini thrive on good early passes from the midfield which is something we just don't do even our best player Shaq(suppose you still don't rate him) holds the ball far to long to play to the strengths of that type of forward. If you are going to piss about with the ball and allow your striker to get swamped by defenders you need a player with far greater strength. We always piss about with the ball and our striker is always swamped because we move the ball too slowly and don't commit many bodies forward in open play.
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Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 12:47:17 GMT
Post by alster on Dec 6, 2017 12:47:17 GMT
In fairness to TP he tended to keep his cock-ups in the single digit gaffe 6-8 million range (Sidwell, Palacios..) whereas Sparky and the current transfer team prefer to go for the full double digit blunder 12-18 million (Imbula, Berahino, Kev Wimmer). That's nothing but a reflection of inflated transfer prices.
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Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 12:55:36 GMT
Post by chigstoke on Dec 6, 2017 12:55:36 GMT
In fairness to TP he tended to keep his cock-ups in the single digit gaffe 6-8 million range (Sidwell, Palacios..) whereas Sparky and the current transfer team prefer to go for the full double digit blunder 12-18 million (Imbula, Berahino, Kev Wimmer). I thought Hughes got sidders in for a free?
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Post by alster on Dec 6, 2017 12:56:51 GMT
In fairness to TP he tended to keep his cock-ups in the single digit gaffe 6-8 million range (Sidwell, Palacios..) whereas Sparky and the current transfer team prefer to go for the full double digit blunder 12-18 million (Imbula, Berahino, Kev Wimmer). I thought Hughes got sidders in for a free? Probably means Kitson.
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Post by Gods on Dec 6, 2017 13:07:01 GMT
In fairness to TP he tended to keep his cock-ups in the single digit gaffe 6-8 million range (Sidwell, Palacios..) whereas Sparky and the current transfer team prefer to go for the full double digit blunder 12-18 million (Imbula, Berahino, Kev Wimmer). I thought Hughes got sidders in for a free? Doh - I meant Kitson of course! Corrected on the original.
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Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 13:14:08 GMT
Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 6, 2017 13:14:08 GMT
Really? I don't remember us launching the ball up to Jese at all when he played up front v Man City. In fact, I don't remember us launching the ball up to anyone other than Crouch, hence people moaning that we piss about too much going backwards and sideways, very slowly. Yeah we go backwards sideways and then launch it in no matter who's up top. We play loads of aerial balls into Berahino when he plays that's why the majority of his better chances have been headers despite the fact he's not great in the air and has no history of scoring headed goals. Players like Berahino and Gabbiadini thrive on good early passes from the midfield which is something we just don't do even our best player Shaq(suppose you still don't rate him) holds the ball far to long to play to the strengths of that type of forward. If you are going to piss about with the ball and allow your striker to get swamped by defenders you need a player with far greater strength. We always piss about with the ball and our striker is always swamped because we move the ball too slowly and don't commit many bodies forward in open play. So it's not the strikers then, it is the other crap players he signs, including Shaqiri? Reference Shaqiri, I've always acknowledged what a good player he is I think. Considering he can be so good, I've never really warmed to him, probably because he doesn't seem to need much excuse no to play, regularly plays and talks like he's doing us a favour and because our big money, star player, has to play for more than half a season. He's been incredibly frustrating in a Stoke shirt up to this season, predominantly because every time he found himself in good form, he got injured.
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Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 13:15:13 GMT
Post by chigstoke on Dec 6, 2017 13:15:13 GMT
I thought Hughes got sidders in for a free? Doh - I meant Kitson of course! Corrected on the original. Meh, they're both ginger, understandable
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