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Post by lordb on Nov 21, 2017 10:32:02 GMT
I agree Dave we weren't under the cosh but teams seem to open us up so easily..our bench last night didn't really send the pulse racing did it. We have regressed and the squad is a real unbalanced mess. The areas we are deficient in seem glaringly obvious yet never addressed. Like Bellamy said post game we are a 11-14th team..is that pushing on?. Not in my eyes but if the board are happy with that then Hughes is as safe as houses Of course the board would be happy with that,the transfer and wage budget shows that.
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Post by sportsman on Nov 21, 2017 10:49:59 GMT
As much as i'd love us to go mad in the market, i understand the sensible approach, but bloody hell stoke, the media, fans, pundits are all aware we are the lowest spenders nearly every window lately. As well as it not helping the manager or team, it's just creating an image now, as viewed by Bellamy and co last night, of a club that has took it's foot well and truly off the gas and is just treading water. Just wish we'd make a bit of a statement window to say 'we're still here and we are still a good progressive club and one of the better ones outside the top 6'
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Post by jimmygscfc on Nov 21, 2017 11:05:42 GMT
Once Fletcher runs out of gas or gets injured, what sort of state would our midfield be in? Adam, Afellay and Cameron are merely sticking plasters. I doubt whether we'll address it in January but we really should. Let Charlie go and free up some wages and then bring a potential game starter in. If we went back to a flat back four I'd actually play Cameron there and Pieters at left back (not that I rate him that highly anymore). It seems to me that we have to play Diouf down the middle because we sure as hell won't buy a new striker in January. Chuck Allen in front of Fletcher and a new bloke and then Shaq and Choup either side of Diouf with Jese as back up. For me this means we only have to buy one player in January, but it also means we drop two of Wimmer/Zouma/ Indi! Never gonna happen, is it?
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Post by rawli on Nov 21, 2017 11:39:34 GMT
I'm not getting him right now. Clearly a talented player but the mistakes he keeps making are ridiculous. What the fuck was he doing on their 2nd goal yesterday? He has to be better than that. Not getting at the lad but comparing him to a piss poor player in the title.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Nov 21, 2017 11:41:50 GMT
He is a good lad with great recovery but the mistake a game problem he has means he won't be a Chelsea level player
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Post by wuzza on Nov 21, 2017 11:44:00 GMT
Absolutely they can’t but , and it might just be me, but there is a feeling of impending doom every time a team comes at us and there are yawning gaps that even the likes of Brighton are able to exploit. Its been going on for too long for it just to be attributable to the odd individual error. We desperately need a solid base if we are going to avoid a long worrying season ( stating the obvious I know ) and it just doesn’t seem to be getting any closer. I didn't feel that we were under the cosh last night. Did grant have anything to do beyond picking the ball out of the net twice? I thought we looked terribly vulnerable to their winger but as I say I think I’m becoming hyper sensitive regarding our defending.
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Post by cooper67 on Nov 21, 2017 11:53:10 GMT
He is a good lad with great recovery but the mistake a game problem he has means he won't be a Chelsea level player That is why we have him.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 21, 2017 12:03:38 GMT
He is a good lad with great recovery but the mistake a game problem he has means he won't be a Chelsea level player If that means we have got a chance of signing him, I'd have him in a flash. Comparing him to Wilson is stupid, he is 2 classes better at least, and I think this MB was harsh on Wilson. What people need to appreciate is Zouma is coming back from a serious injury, Wimmer has not played a lot for over 2 years, Ryan has had his injury problems and we need to give these guys time to get back to their best form against some of the best players in the world, and, in the case of Brighton, Newcastle, and Huddersfield, although just promoted, some of the best organized/coached sides in the world, even if not full of individual talent.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 21, 2017 12:22:19 GMT
Zonal marking is the problem not the players.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2017 12:23:19 GMT
Zonal marking is the problem not the players. Zonal marking made Zouma mistime his header? Don't talk rubbish....
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Post by pez75 on Nov 21, 2017 12:25:36 GMT
Zouma is doing ok - he is just part of a nervy defense in which no-one is looking particularly comfortable at the mo - mainly defenders trying to hold posiiton while being pulled out wide due to this current wingback aberration leaving gaps all over the place and people chasing their tails. His decision making in the main is good and he is excellent as a last ditch defender. He has a mistake in him but dont they all?
His header for the 2nd goal was poor, but a lot still happened between that and the ball hitting the net - mainly some cowardly reactions from Wimmer and crap goalkeeping.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Nov 21, 2017 12:39:21 GMT
Despite the numbers of decent players we have at CB I'm not convinced that 3 at the back and wing backs is the right formation for us. None of the CB's look particularly comfortable and as much of a job Diouf is doing it's clear he's not a RWB just as Pieters isn't a LWB.
I'd much rather have a flat back 4 with a 3 man midfield pressing the opposition than what we're seeing right now.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 21, 2017 12:40:26 GMT
Zonal marking is the problem not the players. Zonal marking made Zouma mistime his header? Don't talk rubbish.... The 1st goal was caused by zonal marking, it happens all the time we have 3 players in the box marking thin air and they gave 2 players totally unmarked on the edge of the box
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Post by Uncle cheese on Nov 21, 2017 12:40:40 GMT
Different player if he had a better RWB next to him. Constantly trying to cover up Dioufs mistakes when caught too far up the pitch. It's Dioufs fault as well that he missed a simple clearance for their second. Diouf must have told him to fuck it up. It's the only explanation
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Nov 21, 2017 12:41:01 GMT
I see it's Kurt's turn in the Oatcake stocks this week is it? Rotten tomatoes at the ready.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2017 12:41:38 GMT
Zonal marking made Zouma mistime his header? Don't talk rubbish.... The 1st goal was caused by zonal marking, it happens all the time we have 3 players in the box marking thin air and they gave 2 players totally unmarked on the edge of the box And the second goal? Bearing in mind you're totally exonerating the players and blaming zonal marking?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2017 12:43:09 GMT
I see it's Kurt's turn in the Oatcake stocks this week is it? Rotten tomatoes at the ready. He gets off very lightly compared to Wimmer. If Wimmer had made the mistakes Zouma did yesterday then there'd have been a welcome party of marauding lunatics with pitchforks waiting for his return to the Potteries!
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 21, 2017 12:47:15 GMT
The 1st goal was caused by zonal marking, it happens all the time we have 3 players in the box marking thin air and they gave 2 players totally unmarked on the edge of the box And the second goal? Bearing in mind you're totally exonerating the players and blaming zonal marking? The players don't look comfortable with zonal marking and in turn are making simple mistakes
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Nov 21, 2017 12:51:08 GMT
I see it's Kurt's turn in the Oatcake stocks this week is it? Rotten tomatoes at the ready. He gets off very lightly compared to Wimmer. If Wimmer had made the mistakes Zouma did yesterday then there'd have been a welcome party of marauding lunatics with pitchforks waiting for his return to the Potteries! I'll have you know we lunatics don't maraude with pitchforks or otherwise.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2017 12:53:08 GMT
And the second goal? Bearing in mind you're totally exonerating the players and blaming zonal marking? The players don't look comfortable with zonal marking and in turn are making simple mistakes A mistimed header in acres of space is because the player isn't comfortable with zonal marking? Absolute cop out is that....
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Post by expectedtoulouse on Nov 21, 2017 13:04:53 GMT
He’s a popular player but he’s been targeted all season and few have seemed to notice. His positioning is woeful and gets caught either too high up or like last night, playing people on side. The attempted headed clearance was very poor indeed and he looks very uncomfortable with the ball at his feet.
I do think he’d work better in a flat back 4 being marshalled by Shawcross but, like many of our players, need to further concentrate on the basics. As another poster has said, he has very good physical attributes, but the conundrum is whether we can afford his weaknesses in the hope he matures as a player.
Personally I’d give him a go at RB in a back 4 with Shawcross and Bruno in the middle. Hughes simply can’t have Zouma and Wimper on the bench in addition to the hapless Berahino and the expensive array of ‘talent’ out on loan. Its fair to say he’s backed himself into a tight corner.
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Post by pez75 on Nov 21, 2017 13:19:12 GMT
Wow - its a good job he doesn't give penalties away every other week like Ryan, or chicken out of tackles like Wimmer, or run around in circles doing fuck all like Pieters then - otherwise he might get some deserved criticism...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2017 13:23:02 GMT
Wow - its a good job he doesn't give penalties away every other week like Ryan, or chicken out of tackles like Wimmer, or run around in circles doing fuck all like Pieters then - otherwise he might get some deserved criticism... He made a mistake, people are discussing it. Just because he's one of your favourites doesn't mean it didn't happen........
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Post by jezzascfc on Nov 21, 2017 13:29:17 GMT
Once Fletcher runs out of gas or gets injured, what sort of state would our midfield be in? Adam, Afellay and Cameron are merely sticking plasters. I doubt whether we'll address it in January but we really should. Let Charlie go and free up some wages and then bring a potential game starter in. If we went back to a flat back four I'd actually play Cameron there and Pieters at left back (not that I rate him that highly anymore). It seems to me that we have to play Diouf down the middle because we sure as hell won't buy a new striker in January. Chuck Allen in front of Fletcher and a new bloke and then Shaq and Choup either side of Diouf with Jese as back up. For me this means we only have to buy one player in January, but it also means we drop two of Wimmer/Zouma/ Indi! Never gonna happen, is it? Maybe not, but something needs to change - doing the same thing time and time again and expecting different results......Einstein could tell Hughes about the futility of doing that, even without trying to understand the intricacies of modern football tactics! A flat back four with Ryan and Bruno flanked by Geoff/Kurt and Erik/Kevin should be reinstated. Release Diouf from his wing back purgatory and play the bloody bloke up front! For now, I'd even use the one of Geoff or Kurt not at right back to bolster the middle alongside Fletch and push Joe forward as the most advanced of a midfield three, with Shaq and Choupo supporting Mame. As for Kurt, he is prone to the odd rash challenge or dozy marking, but his athleticism gets him and others out of trouble plenty of times too. Ryan should guide him into being a bit more circumspect and to know when and when not to "go for it". Having Mame playing right wing, and forgetting about the "back" bit, and Shaq ahead of him, who is not coming back into our own half at all, does rather leave Kurt exposed though.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Nov 21, 2017 13:35:37 GMT
I'd rather Geoff in midfield than Kurt, but I'd rather have him at right back too, so sort that out!
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Post by jezzascfc on Nov 21, 2017 13:37:26 GMT
I'd rather Geoff in midfield than Kurt, but I'd rather have him at right back too, so sort that out! I'd plump for Geoff in midfield and Kurt at right back if I had to choose - less upheaval for Kurt, just a slight switch across, and Geoff has plenty of experience in that holding role.
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Post by kustokie on Nov 21, 2017 13:38:49 GMT
Not sure that a back 3 suits him, particularly when Diouf gets caught so far upfield and just wanders back. As for the goal his positioning was shocking. Surely in a 3 at the back him and Wimmer are supposed to go out and cover when the wingback is caught upfield. It was beyond me when commentators kept highlighting that Zouma was having to come out wide to cover for Diouf because Shaq wasn't helping Diouf. They never made that observation on the left because Ramadan is playing as a wingback they expected Shaq to do the same they're supposed to be playing as forwards for gods sake. We need to defend better by attacking better not by dragging every player back into defence. Diouf’s natural reaction is to get forward, so he gets out of position as a WB. He ran himself into the ground getting back until he was knackered. Pieters’s natural reaction is to defend so he needed less support from Sohbi. In other words, we are a bit shit defending on the right and a bit shit attacking on the left. It’s never going to change until we sign decent two wing back, which will cost an arm and a leg or abandon this 3 at the back bollox. All that said, neither Stoke goals yesterday came from the wingers and neither Brighton’s goals were Diouf’s fault.
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Post by kustokie on Nov 21, 2017 13:41:59 GMT
He is a good lad with great recovery but the mistake a game problem he has means he won't be a Chelsea level player If that means we have got a chance of signing him, I'd have him in a flash. Comparing him to Wilson is stupid, he is 2 classes better at least, and I think this MB was harsh on Wilson. What people need to appreciate is Zouma is coming back from a serious injury, Wimmer has not played a lot for over 2 years, Ryan has had his injury problems and we need to give these guys time to get back to their best form against some of the best players in the world, and, in the case of Brighton, Newcastle, and Huddersfield, although just promoted, some of the best organized/coached sides in the world, even if not full of individual talent. He’s keeping BMI out of the starting line-up, which means Hughes rates him highly (for what that’s worth) and is quite surprising because I thought BMI was excellent last year. Everyone was clamoring for BMI to sign a permanent contract in January and June. Now he can’t get in the side.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2017 14:30:19 GMT
When he faces up to an attacker he stoops and sticks his bum out and pulls his knees together and splays his feet. That's not good with attackers looking to stop and go again so much now - not a good starting position at all for a defender to get himself into.
Leicester's Grey played a cross through his legs and he was spooked by it.
He gets lost under crosses lofted over his head and mistimes his jumps.
I though he was ring rusty but he's not improved.
Last night he did a surging run at a good time but knocked the ball way too far ahead and it was easily intercepted.
I liked him loads at first too.
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Post by Dave the Rave on Nov 21, 2017 14:41:16 GMT
I'm not getting him right now. Clearly a talented player but the mistakes he keeps making are ridiculous. What the fuck was he doing on their 2nd goal yesterday? He has to be better than that. In future when I have a thread idea, can I send it to you to post for me Dave so it can survive longer than 5 minutes? Seems I'm on the naughty list for some reason whereas you've obviously been a very good boy. It's a shame those that responded to the first thread had their opinions deleted but I suppose it's admin's prerogative to choose who can post what on their message board.
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