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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 23, 2017 13:38:04 GMT
We should give it the next four games, at most, to see if things improve. They are games against our mid-table peers. If we cannot compete, play well and secure at least 6 points in those, I would not want to see us limp into games against Liverpool and Spurs in our current form.
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Post by reddipotter on Oct 23, 2017 13:43:10 GMT
It’s a good thing the board don’t panic We would be like the rest of these sack a manager clubs that don’t progress. It’s not good at the moment granted but Hughes has done nothing to suggest he can’t turn it around. We won’t get relegated under Hughes this season 1. Reacting to two years of decline is not panic. 2. Plenty of teams have changed their manager and progressed. (Man Utd, Man City, Watford) The key is to appoint the RIGHT manager. 3. There is nothing in Hughes' record to suggest that he can turn around a decline. He had a go at the beginning of this season (new players, new formation) but that hasn't even lasted until the end of October. 4. Evidence?
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Post by Clayton Wood on Oct 23, 2017 13:47:49 GMT
We should give it the next four games, at most, to see if things improve. They are games against our mid-table peers. If we cannot compete, play well and secure at least 6 points in those, I would not want to see us limp into games against Liverpool and Spurs in our current form. I gave it 5 games after Man C. One of them has gone, and it's probably looking worse now. Nothing's changing my mind so far.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2017 13:52:17 GMT
The situation is staring everyone in the face about the position that we're in so why the hell can't the Board see it as well ? ![](http://www.rikkijai.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/time-to-go.jpg)
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Post by Northy on Oct 23, 2017 14:10:09 GMT
we won away at Watford last season, quite easily, so why is it a given that we lose? We won the world cup in '66 so we must have won it in '70 too on that basis then. Hang on a min I'll just check something. but we had the attitude that we were going to win it, not that we'd lose it as given
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Oct 23, 2017 14:46:11 GMT
Panic involves action ,(and cost which is our overidding principal ) our definition of well run has nothing to do with what goes on , on the pitch , the chief executive is monitoring the situation if after 37 games we are in the bottom three we will make a decisive move for a manager who was highly rated early in his career but lost his way and has something to prove . They may not panic but for the record they are utterly wrong , worst squad in ten years , team that does as it pleases , manager who now can't see wood for trees, but as someone said on here over the weekend , it is no longer A Hughes issue. It's the board that are sending us down now which further adds to the CEO crime sheet , his £12m banked in the summer racking up true cost week after week on the pitch and coming with an interest cost of £100m per annum come May . For his part Hughes we aren't in the bottom three come May we've been here before is as deluded as the CEO , Jesse , Chopper , Ramadan , berahino , haven't Wimmer hasnt ,Zouma hasn't , Tymon hasn't , the players you need in here walters , Bardsley , Whelan all sold as the two of them presided over a summer which I said at the time will be this eras equivalent of the roof blowing off the butler street stand but totally self inflicted . Why do you keep wittering on and on about the "CEO"? Scholes may have his faults and he probably does bear some of the responsibility for a questionable recruitment policy, but he doesn't own the club and ultimately isn't entirely to blame. He certainly isn't going to be the one to make the decision to remove Mark Hughes if and when the time comes. For the likes of you though, he is an easy (and the only) target. You haven't got the courage to point the finger at those ultimately responsible. I thbimk you will find that the role of the CEO and the rewards paid for taking are to be the executive officer accountable for all aspects of the business , if he isn't why are we paying him £1m a year ?
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Post by Davef on Oct 23, 2017 15:00:23 GMT
Why do you keep wittering on and on about the "CEO"? Scholes may have his faults and he probably does bear some of the responsibility for a questionable recruitment policy, but he doesn't own the club and ultimately isn't entirely to blame. He certainly isn't going to be the one to make the decision to remove Mark Hughes if and when the time comes. For the likes of you though, he is an easy (and the only) target. You haven't got the courage to point the finger at those ultimately responsible. I thbimk you will find that the role of the CEO and the rewards paid for taking are to be the executive officer accountable for all aspects of the business , if he isn't why are we paying him £1m a year ? I just about managed to fathom that out, but he's paid well to do his job of running the day to day aspects of a multi-million pound business. If the billionaires running the club weren't happy with the job he was doing then he wouldn't be here. Do you think things would be different if they appointed a new chief executive? Do you think the policies of the club higher up in the chain than him would be different? The SOLE focus of your criticism is the CEO. It's tiresome.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 23, 2017 15:32:57 GMT
It was a poor performance (1st half) and a bad result on Saturday, but I think the board is right not to panic. We're still a bit patched up: Ryan can't be fully fit, Glen Johnson hasn't played at all and we are obviously going to miss Shaqiri. We could have rescued a point on Saturday which would have completely changed the mood. Let's se how we go on after the next few games. If we get Ryan and BMI fully fit, get Tom Edwards in at RB, give Mame a run up front, things will look a lot different, and hopefully a bit of confidence and form will come back. We don't have the problems that West ham and Everton have - both of those are really in a mess. Why are we in a position though, whereby one injury-prone man alone is essentially carrying our entire creative burden? Why does our defensive balance hinge on getting fit an 18 year old with one senior appearance to his name? I don't think rescuing a point to Bournemouth at home would have changed the mood really - that first half was appalling and following on from Man City really, really not good enough. At some point, surely, the patience has to run out? I don't think Shaqiri carries our entire creativity, but he is clearly a big player for us. He also makes the rest of the team more creative. We've seen that Darren Fletcher can spot a pass and Jese obviously has more to give when he is fully fit and focussed. Choupo also carries an attacking threat. Our defensive balance doesn't "hinge" on Edwards, but there is clearly a long term plan to have him and Tymon as our wing backs. At the moment, given Diouf's form up front and Johnson's poor form (and fitness?), he simply looks the best current option to get the most out of our starting 11. We wouldn't have had such vociferous calls for change after Manchester United, or even after Southampton. Manchester City was a hiding, and as I have said, Saturday was a poor first half performance and bad result. It happens. We have played well against Arsenal and Manchester United and even in parts against Chelsea. Certainly at some point, patience with any manager getting consistently bad results will run out. Personally, I don't think we've reached that point yet. We've got key players missing and some players playing when they're not fully fit. Confidence is key, and it will return as players come back into the side and we get a couple of results, better performances and a bit of form. Not time for change yet. Time for cool heads, patience and support.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 23, 2017 15:38:09 GMT
I thbimk you will find that the role of the CEO and the rewards paid for taking are to be the executive officer accountable for all aspects of the business , if he isn't why are we paying him £1m a year ? I just about managed to fathom that out, but he's paid well to do his job of running the day to day aspects of a multi-million pound business. If the billionaires running the club weren't happy with the job he was doing then he wouldn't be here. Do you think things would be different if they appointed a new chief executive? Do you think the policies of the club higher up in the chain than him would be different? The SOLE focus of your criticism is the CEO. It's tiresome. He's on the board......
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Post by kidcrewbob on Oct 23, 2017 15:40:22 GMT
Coates had better get his finger out real soon - refusing to panic = dither dither dither......and it will cost us......
This is becoming a shit or bust season for us and we still have PLENTY of time to turn it around with the right appointment.....
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 23, 2017 15:40:42 GMT
The situation is staring everyone in the face about the position that we're in so why the hell can't the Board see it as well ? ![](http://www.rikkijai.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/time-to-go.jpg) It's ironic that below this slightly hysterical post are the bold words, "Be Loyal, Be Proud, Be Stoke - Always" Maybe you're not quite as "loyal" and "proud" as you would like to think. We're 9 games into a tough start to the season and have lost a game at home we would have expected to win. If we had lost to Arsenal and beat Bournemouth, sitting on the same points as today, would it be time to go?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 23, 2017 15:45:33 GMT
I just about managed to fathom that out, but he's paid well to do his job of running the day to day aspects of a multi-million pound business. If the billionaires running the club weren't happy with the job he was doing then he wouldn't be here. Do you think things would be different if they appointed a new chief executive? Do you think the policies of the club higher up in the chain than him would be different? The SOLE focus of your criticism is the CEO. It's tiresome. He's on the board...... He's the highest paid member of the board at an eye watering £934,000 a year.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 23, 2017 15:46:19 GMT
He's the highest paid member of the board at an eye watering £934,000 a year. But he'll have no influence! 😂😉
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2017 15:47:02 GMT
The situation is staring everyone in the face about the position that we're in so why the hell can't the Board see it as well ? ![](http://www.rikkijai.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/time-to-go.jpg) It's ironic that below this slightly hysterical post are the bold words, "Be Loyal, Be Proud, Be Stoke - Always" Maybe you're not quite as "loyal" and "proud" as you would like to think. We're 9 games into a tough start to the season and have lost a game at home we would have expected to win. If we had lost to Arsenal and beat Bournemouth, sitting on the same points as today, would it be time to go? So that would be to ignore the absolute dross that we've had to endure for around 20 months now since the Liverpool semi-final defeat ? Despite your sarcasm I'm a loyal, long serving (and long suffering) supporter but I have now reached the point where enough is enough whether it's 9, 19 or 29 games into a season. Best to act now to give our club a real chance to turn things around, which Hughes has not demonstrated that he's capable of doing. He has to go !
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 23, 2017 15:55:36 GMT
He has demonstrated that he is capable of turning things around. We had slipped into the bottom 3 before a late kick off against Manchester United, won the game and finished the season in 9th. We've had a number of tough starts and finished the season well. We're probably enjoying the best 4 or 5 season spell in 154 years.
I too am a long standing supporter. But we've beaten Arsenal and put 2 past Manchester United in the last month to earn a draw with the team second in the league. I've got to be honest - I've known it worse. If you've reached the point where enough is enough now, heaven knows how you felt 20 years ago.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 23, 2017 15:57:02 GMT
Why are we in a position though, whereby one injury-prone man alone is essentially carrying our entire creative burden? Why does our defensive balance hinge on getting fit an 18 year old with one senior appearance to his name? I don't think rescuing a point to Bournemouth at home would have changed the mood really - that first half was appalling and following on from Man City really, really not good enough. At some point, surely, the patience has to run out? I don't think Shaqiri carries our entire creativity, but he is clearly a big player for us. He also makes the rest of the team more creative. We've seen that Darren Fletcher can spot a pass and Jese obviously has more to give when he is fully fit and focussed. Choupo also carries an attacking threat. Our defensive balance doesn't "hinge" on Edwards, but there is clearly a long term plan to have him and Tymon as our wing backs. At the moment, given Diouf's form up front and Johnson's poor form (and fitness?), he simply looks the best current option to get the most out of our starting 11. We wouldn't have had such vociferous calls for change after Manchester United, or even after Southampton. Manchester City was a hiding, and as I have said, Saturday was a poor first half performance and bad result. It happens. We have played well against Arsenal and Manchester United and even in parts against Chelsea. Certainly at some point, patience with any manager getting consistently bad results will run out. Personally, I don't think we've reached that point yet. We've got key players missing and some players playing when they're not fully fit. Confidence is key, and it will return as players come back into the side and we get a couple of results, better performances and a bit of form. Not time for change yet. Time for cool heads, patience and support. But it's not just two games is it. After the 7-2, the Bournemouth game was one that had all the hallmarks of our worst form over the 21 months or so. Ponderous in the final third. Chaotic and shambolic off the ball. Why isn't that being addressed? Fletcher isn't a creative player. Being able to pick the odd pass isn't the same thing. Jese had a better game but there's night and day between us with Shaq in the team and us without him. Are Jese and Choupo really going to pick up the slack, decent though they are, when he's out? They didn't at the weekend. What's going to change?
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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 23, 2017 16:04:54 GMT
He's the highest paid member of the board at an eye watering £934,000 a year. Nearly a million a year paid to Scholes......good grief! I'd at least want someone with just a smidgeon of charisma for that fee, instead of a glorified bean counter with all the personality of a dead pigeon.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 23, 2017 16:06:16 GMT
I don't think Shaqiri carries our entire creativity, but he is clearly a big player for us. He also makes the rest of the team more creative. We've seen that Darren Fletcher can spot a pass and Jese obviously has more to give when he is fully fit and focussed. Choupo also carries an attacking threat. Our defensive balance doesn't "hinge" on Edwards, but there is clearly a long term plan to have him and Tymon as our wing backs. At the moment, given Diouf's form up front and Johnson's poor form (and fitness?), he simply looks the best current option to get the most out of our starting 11. We wouldn't have had such vociferous calls for change after Manchester United, or even after Southampton. Manchester City was a hiding, and as I have said, Saturday was a poor first half performance and bad result. It happens. We have played well against Arsenal and Manchester United and even in parts against Chelsea. Certainly at some point, patience with any manager getting consistently bad results will run out. Personally, I don't think we've reached that point yet. We've got key players missing and some players playing when they're not fully fit. Confidence is key, and it will return as players come back into the side and we get a couple of results, better performances and a bit of form. Not time for change yet. Time for cool heads, patience and support. But it's not just two games is it. After the 7-2, the Bournemouth game was one that had all the hallmarks of our worst form over the 21 months or so. Ponderous in the final third. Chaotic and shambolic off the ball. Why isn't that being addressed? Fletcher isn't a creative player. Being able to pick the odd pass isn't the same thing. Jese had a better game but there's night and day between us with Shaq in the team and us without him. Are Jese and Choupo really going to pick up the slack, decent though they are, when he's out? They didn't at the weekend. What's going to change? I kind of agree, but surely any mid table team missing their most creative player is going to be the poorer without him. As I've said earlier, I think there are mitigating circumstances, and it affects confidence and form. A couple of players fitter and it could change fairly quickly. We have looked decent in patches this season. Ramadan has been a disappointment too. I thought Marko leaving would really open the door for him this season. Another creative player, like Jese to a degree, struggling with form and fitness. I am confident that there is more to come from this squad under this manager.
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Post by lordb on Oct 23, 2017 16:08:09 GMT
It’s a good thing the board don’t panic We would be like the rest of these sack a manager clubs that don’t progress. It’s not good at the moment granted but Hughes has done nothing to suggest he can’t turn it around. We won’t get relegated under Hughes this season 1. Reacting to two years of decline is not panic. 2. Plenty of teams have changed their manager and progressed. (Man Utd, Man City, Watford) The key is to appoint the RIGHT manager. 3. There is nothing in Hughes' record to suggest that he can turn around a decline. He had a go at the beginning of this season (new players, new formation) but that hasn't even lasted until the end of October. 4. Evidence? Point two is the hard bit
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Post by jimmygscfc on Oct 23, 2017 16:11:37 GMT
Currently I'd like to see us switch to a flat back four and then either three in midfield or a two with Shaqiri playing behind Diouf and Jese and Choupo either side. Home or away might decide on our line-up. I'd rather see Zouma and Indi in the centre of defence but think Hughes would shirk from both dropping Shawcross and kicking his beloved new system into touch.
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Post by Gods on Oct 23, 2017 16:11:49 GMT
He has demonstrated that he is capable of turning things around. We had slipped into the bottom 3 before a late kick off against Manchester United, won the game and finished the season in 9th. We've had a number of tough starts and finished the season well. We're probably enjoying the best 4 or 5 season spell in 154 years. I too am a long standing supporter. But we've beaten Arsenal and put 2 past Manchester United in the last month to earn a draw with the team second in the league. I've got to be honest - I've known it worse. If you've reached the point where enough is enough now, heaven knows how you felt 20 years ago. Excellent post that, it certainly sets the case for the defence in some clear context.
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Post by thevoid on Oct 23, 2017 16:13:07 GMT
The situation is staring everyone in the face about the position that we're in so why the hell can't the Board see it as well ? ![](http://www.rikkijai.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/time-to-go.jpg) It's ironic that below this slightly hysterical post are the bold words, "Be Loyal, Be Proud, Be Stoke - Always" Maybe you're not quite as "loyal" and "proud" as you would like to think. We're 9 games into a tough start to the season and have lost a game at home we would have expected to win. If we had lost to Arsenal and beat Bournemouth, sitting on the same points as today, would it be time to go? Based on the malaise stretching back for 20 months rather than nine games, yes. We've also gotten turfed out of a cup competition by a Championship reserve side three times on the trot. No other club would have allowed this rot to set in for so long without acting.
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Post by kustokie on Oct 23, 2017 16:20:32 GMT
There’s no way the board are going to announce publically that they are in a panic mode because it would send a message of no confidence in the manager to the players, with obvious negative effects on morale. Privately, they will set goals and objectives (at least you would hope they will).
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Post by alster on Oct 23, 2017 16:22:05 GMT
But it's not just two games is it. After the 7-2, the Bournemouth game was one that had all the hallmarks of our worst form over the 21 months or so. Ponderous in the final third. Chaotic and shambolic off the ball. Why isn't that being addressed? Fletcher isn't a creative player. Being able to pick the odd pass isn't the same thing. Jese had a better game but there's night and day between us with Shaq in the team and us without him. Are Jese and Choupo really going to pick up the slack, decent though they are, when he's out? They didn't at the weekend. What's going to change? I kind of agree, but surely any mid table team missing their most creative player is going to be the poorer without him. As I've said earlier, I think there are mitigating circumstances, and it affects confidence and form. A couple of players fitter and it could change fairly quickly. We have looked decent in patches this season. Ramadan has been a disappointment too. I thought Marko leaving would really open the door for him this season. Another creative player, like Jese to a degree, struggling with form and fitness. I am confident that there is more to come from this squad under this manager. I wonder why Ramadan is struggling. Maybe the blows to his confidence of not being given an opportunity to fill Arnies boots despite his performances last season meriting he at least got the chance or getting hardly any minutes a sitting watching the reputations that have been bought in ahead of him getting bucket loads and being about as effective as a set of rubber spanners.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 23, 2017 16:22:46 GMT
But it's not just two games is it. After the 7-2, the Bournemouth game was one that had all the hallmarks of our worst form over the 21 months or so. Ponderous in the final third. Chaotic and shambolic off the ball. Why isn't that being addressed? Fletcher isn't a creative player. Being able to pick the odd pass isn't the same thing. Jese had a better game but there's night and day between us with Shaq in the team and us without him. Are Jese and Choupo really going to pick up the slack, decent though they are, when he's out? They didn't at the weekend. What's going to change? I kind of agree, but surely any mid table team missing their most creative player is going to be the poorer without him. As I've said earlier, I think there are mitigating circumstances, and it affects confidence and form. A couple of players fitter and it could change fairly quickly. We have looked decent in patches this season. Ramadan has been a disappointment too. I thought Marko leaving would really open the door for him this season. Another creative player, like Jese to a degree, struggling with form and fitness. I am confident that there is more to come from this squad under this manager. Ramadan, for all his rawness and faults, still hasn't really had a chance in one of the creative positions behind the striker. Saturday was crying out for him and yet Hughes put Berahino on, and moved our most dangerous striker out to the wing while removing one of two creative options to supply a player. We really shouldn't, based on what we've spent and how long we've been here, be reliant on one man to be far and away our most creative option and look so moribund without him. If we don't take, say, 6-7 points from our next three games, we're going to be right in the mix aren't we?
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Post by baystokie on Oct 23, 2017 16:34:13 GMT
Hughes has quite clearly lost the plot. From the comments on here, he's not alone.
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Post by baystokie on Oct 23, 2017 16:37:19 GMT
Who on here would give him more than the next game? Apparently, it's not a decision for 'those on here'!
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 23, 2017 16:42:52 GMT
When I saw the first 9 fixtures I thought we would get 8 points and we have,so things don't seem that bad yet.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2017 16:44:36 GMT
When I saw the first 9 fixtures I thought we would get 8 points and we have,so things don't seem that bad yet. I thought 3 or less points.
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 23, 2017 16:47:06 GMT
When I saw the first 9 fixtures I thought we would get 8 points and we have,so things don't seem that bad yet. I thought 3 or less points. That was certainly possible.
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