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Post by trickydicky73 on Oct 23, 2017 0:12:39 GMT
What's the best football that we've seen since Stoke were promoted? We've had several really good spells, but most people would probably agree the stuff we were playing when we beat Man City 2-0 (the BMX/Stokealona spell) was the pinnacle. Is that the kind of stuff we should try to get back to? I don't think so. Because even if we do manage to replicate that and sustain it for a while, it won't last for long because the sort of players needed for that kind of football won't stay at Stoke. Arnie fucked off, Shaq will soon fuck off; there's no point in us even going there. We'd be much better off building something based around the football that Tony Pulis briefly hit upon at the end of our first season up or in that run up to the cup final: the up and at 'em style with pacy wingers, big lads up-front, solid back 4, tackling everything that moves in midfield...the sort of football that can be effectively played by 'no frills' footballers who aren't going to attract the attention of bigger fish. This isn't a call for TP to return- far from it, because we know that whenever he hit on something good he always dismantled it within a few weeks and reverted to horrible, ugly football so as not to raise expectations. No, it's a wish for something similar to what Chris Hughton's doing at Brighton- a bunch of no-names they might be, but they're players who fight for each other, have a gameplan and yet aren't exactly boring to watch either. Burnley are similar, if perhaps a bit more rough around the edges. Watford too- they have a bit of flair in key areas, but largely they're just big, athletic players who work hard and get stuck in. That's the sort of thing we need to get back to. I want us to be hard to beat, a pain in the arse to play against, but still decent enough to watch to get you off your seat now and again. At the moment we're just so fucking brittle and aimless, I can only see us going one way. In the short term, toughening us up and grinding a few points out (even if it is ugly) would get us out of trouble and keep us safe this season. In the long term, it's something we can maintain with a solid bunch of players as we look to return to being a top-half side who no-one enjoys playing against. Well said that man. I really enjoyed Hughes's brand of football a couple of seasons ago, and found it better than anything Tone produced. However, Hughes seems to have lost that magic and I don't think it's coming back. If, as someone suggested in the Butland thread, we could get 50 big ones for him and Shaqiri, I would buy direct, athletic players with the money. A pacy winger would be a must as would a big striker and powerful box to box midfielder. We are just so slow all over the pitch , and despite Shaqiri being much better this season, he's not reliable enough injury wise, and won't be here forever as the OP says. I agree with him, we should be looking at different types of players; we are too lightweight at the moment, and far too easy to play.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 23, 2017 1:04:13 GMT
How can anyone be sure how the PL will look after 38 games, my guess would be that both Watford and Stoke will be in the top ten.
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Post by mrred on Oct 23, 2017 5:30:45 GMT
Qualifying for Europe twice through league position? Whilst selling nearly £200 million worth of players over the 2 seasons. And refilling the squad with suitable replacements. Night and day compared to our set up.
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Post by ed5993 on Oct 23, 2017 6:23:40 GMT
What's the best football that we've seen since Stoke were promoted? We've had several really good spells, but most people would probably agree the stuff we were playing when we beat Man City 2-0 (the BMX/Stokealona spell) was the pinnacle. Is that the kind of stuff we should try to get back to? I don't think so. Because even if we do manage to replicate that and sustain it for a while, it won't last for long because the sort of players needed for that kind of football won't stay at Stoke. Arnie fucked off, Shaq will soon fuck off; there's no point in us even going there. We'd be much better off building something based around the football that Tony Pulis briefly hit upon at the end of our first season up or in that run up to the cup final: the up and at 'em style with pacy wingers, big lads up-front, solid back 4, tackling everything that moves in midfield...the sort of football that can be effectively played by 'no frills' footballers who aren't going to attract the attention of bigger fish. This isn't a call for TP to return- far from it, because we know that whenever he hit on something good he always dismantled it within a few weeks and reverted to horrible, ugly football so as not to raise expectations. No, it's a wish for something similar to what Chris Hughton's doing at Brighton- a bunch of no-names they might be, but they're players who fight for each other, have a gameplan and yet aren't exactly boring to watch either. Burnley are similar, if perhaps a bit more rough around the edges. Watford too- they have a bit of flair in key areas, but largely they're just big, athletic players who work hard and get stuck in. That's the sort of thing we need to get back to. I want us to be hard to beat, a pain in the arse to play against, but still decent enough to watch to get you off your seat now and again. At the moment we're just so fucking brittle and aimless, I can only see us going one way. In the short term, toughening us up and grinding a few points out (even if it is ugly) would get us out of trouble and keep us safe this season. In the long term, it's something we can maintain with a solid bunch of players as we look to return to being a top-half side who no-one enjoys playing against. I'd kill to see us play like Watford did yesterday in what turned out to be a convincing defeat away at a big side, Trousers. Unfortunately, it would us take about 4 transfer windows to get there and that is the most most damning indictment of the whole club these past two years. We're somehow massively behind fucking Watford! My best mate is a Watford fan and he took me to the Watford v Arsenal game the other week on a spare ticket - they were brilliant to watch. But it was down to a balanced side that knew what their roles were that also adapted to the circumstances at the time of the game (game management I think some would call that) I don't think you can just apply that overnight you have to build and develop that
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Post by alster on Oct 23, 2017 8:23:42 GMT
They are though. Their full backs are on a different stratosphere to ours. Ditto their midfield. Butland, Shawcross and Shaq are the only players we have who would get into their side. They are currently 4 points ahead of us, having had a much easier start to the season fixture-wise. Last season they finished two points ahead of us. Light years ahead? With all due respect mate, you are talking out of your arse. Club set up wise they're in a different class like the difference between Tesco and the corner shop.
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Post by alster on Oct 23, 2017 8:27:33 GMT
I really enjoyed Hughes's brand of football a couple of seasons ago, and found it better than anything Tone produced. However, Hughes seems to have lost that magic and I don't think it's coming back. If, as someone suggested in the Butland thread, we could get 50 big ones for him and Shaqiri, I would buy direct, athletic players with the money. A pacy winger would be a must as would a big striker and powerful box to box midfielder. We are just so slow all over the pitch , and despite Shaqiri being much better this season, he's not reliable enough injury wise, and won't be here forever as the OP says. I agree with him, we should be looking at different types of players; we are too lightweight at the moment, and far too easy to play. I agree and disagree. Yes we do need to have a more powerful, pacy, direct, physical edge but in no way do I think that means we need a return to agricultural football.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Oct 23, 2017 9:56:00 GMT
I really enjoyed Hughes's brand of football a couple of seasons ago, and found it better than anything Tone produced. However, Hughes seems to have lost that magic and I don't think it's coming back. If, as someone suggested in the Butland thread, we could get 50 big ones for him and Shaqiri, I would buy direct, athletic players with the money. A pacy winger would be a must as would a big striker and powerful box to box midfielder. We are just so slow all over the pitch , and despite Shaqiri being much better this season, he's not reliable enough injury wise, and won't be here forever as the OP says. I agree with him, we should be looking at different types of players; we are too lightweight at the moment, and far too easy to play. I agree and disagree. Yes we do need to have a more powerful, pacy, direct, physical edge but in no way do I think that means we need a return to agricultural football. Neither do I. I like a balanced side where we can mix it up a bit. At the moment we are like a very poor Arsenal imitation, trying to score the perfect goal all the time. The old standbys of beating a man and getting crosses in still work. I wish Shaqiri would do it more often; he seems to think it's beneath him at times. I definitely don't want hoofball back.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2017 10:03:21 GMT
Dyche? Really? Whatever floats your boat I guess. People keep saying they want progress and to evolve our football to be more competitive with the Top 10 usual suspects, but then go and suggest Dyche; seems like an oxymoron to me.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Oct 23, 2017 10:16:09 GMT
What's the best football that we've seen since Stoke were promoted? We've had several really good spells, but most people would probably agree the stuff we were playing when we beat Man City 2-0 (the BMX/Stokealona spell) was the pinnacle. Is that the kind of stuff we should try to get back to? I don't think so. Because even if we do manage to replicate that and sustain it for a while, it won't last for long because the sort of players needed for that kind of football won't stay at Stoke. Arnie fucked off, Shaq will soon fuck off; there's no point in us even going there. We'd be much better off building something based around the football that Tony Pulis briefly hit upon at the end of our first season up or in that run up to the cup final: the up and at 'em style with pacy wingers, big lads up-front, solid back 4, tackling everything that moves in midfield...the sort of football that can be effectively played by 'no frills' footballers who aren't going to attract the attention of bigger fish. This isn't a call for TP to return- far from it, because we know that whenever he hit on something good he always dismantled it within a few weeks and reverted to horrible, ugly football so as not to raise expectations. No, it's a wish for something similar to what Chris Hughton's doing at Brighton- a bunch of no-names they might be, but they're players who fight for each other, have a gameplan and yet aren't exactly boring to watch either. Burnley are similar, if perhaps a bit more rough around the edges. Watford too- they have a bit of flair in key areas, but largely they're just big, athletic players who work hard and get stuck in. That's the sort of thing we need to get back to. I want us to be hard to beat, a pain in the arse to play against, but still decent enough to watch to get you off your seat now and again. At the moment we're just so fucking brittle and aimless, I can only see us going one way. In the short term, toughening us up and grinding a few points out (even if it is ugly) would get us out of trouble and keep us safe this season. In the long term, it's something we can maintain with a solid bunch of players as we look to return to being a top-half side who no-one enjoys playing against. The difference between the three teams you mention and us is less about the playing staff an more that they have all got managers who have experienced relegation and don't want to go back there - we've got one who because he has never been relegated (QPR sacked him first) displays the supreme arrogance of "we're not usually in the bottom three at the end of the season". He thinks he's too good to go down - they know they're not. That translates into players attitude on the pitch.
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 23, 2017 10:41:13 GMT
All Stoke fans, especially those attending games want above anything else to see the team win, how they win is secondary. Whoever the manager is my gut feeling is that it's likely Stoke would achieve around 14 wins in a good season out of 38 games.
The stark reality is that in todays PL fans are simply not seeing the team win enough and therefore frustration sets in and people look for someone to blame, that is often the manager.
We can change the manager every year but it's the current structure of the PL that's the real problem, the powers that be though are unlikely to change anything soon.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 23, 2017 10:52:29 GMT
All Stoke fans, especially those attending games want above anything else to see the team win, how they win is secondary. Whoever the manager is my gut feeling is that it's likely Stoke would achieve around 14 wins in a good season out of 38 games. The stark reality is that in todays PL fans are simply not seeing the team win enough and therefore frustration sets in and people look for someone to blame, that is often the manager. We can change the manager every year but it's the current structure of the PL that's the real problem, the powers that be though are unlikely to change anything soon. You make it sound like it's just one of those things Geoff. In reality in a lot of the cases currently where there's dissent with the manager, the failings can be traced back to longstanding series of poor decisions that have seen even successful ones use up the credit they had in the bank. It's not just materialised from nowhere, it's happened for a reason. Poor decisions and reacting poorly to difficult situations will be what do for Koeman, Bilic and Hughes.
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 23, 2017 11:08:58 GMT
All Stoke fans, especially those attending games want above anything else to see the team win, how they win is secondary. Whoever the manager is my gut feeling is that it's likely Stoke would achieve around 14 wins in a good season out of 38 games. The stark reality is that in todays PL fans are simply not seeing the team win enough and therefore frustration sets in and people look for someone to blame, that is often the manager. We can change the manager every year but it's the current structure of the PL that's the real problem, the powers that be though are unlikely to change anything soon. You make it sound like it's just one of those things Geoff. In reality in a lot of the cases currently where there's dissent with the manager, the failings can be traced back to longstanding series of poor decisions that have seen even successful ones use up the credit they had in the bank. It's not just materialised from nowhere, it's happened for a reason. Poor decisions and reacting poorly to difficult situations will be what do for Koeman, Bilic and Hughes. Hughes achieved three 9th place finishes with basically a Pulis group of players. The time was ripe to change many of those players which Hughes has started to do, it now remains to be seen if he can achieve another 9th place, that's about the best we can hope for in this current PL, that's all I'm saying.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 23, 2017 11:16:45 GMT
You make it sound like it's just one of those things Geoff. In reality in a lot of the cases currently where there's dissent with the manager, the failings can be traced back to longstanding series of poor decisions that have seen even successful ones use up the credit they had in the bank. It's not just materialised from nowhere, it's happened for a reason. Poor decisions and reacting poorly to difficult situations will be what do for Koeman, Bilic and Hughes. Hughes achieved three 9th place finishes with basically a Pulis group of players. The time was ripe to change many of those players which Hughes has started to do, it now remains to be seen if he can achieve another 9th place, that's about the best we can hope for in this current PL, that's all I'm saying. Last season we didn't get near that though. Even in the third season when we ultimately finished 9th, results and performances tailed off alarmingly and have never really returned. There are numerous longstanding issues that have not been addressed and continue to worsen. If they're not put right, we'll be much much closer to 19th than 9th for the forseeable. You're quite right to say that progress doesn't always happen in a straight line, but if you saw us on Saturday Geoff, you'd have seen a performance every bit as bad as anything seen over the past 18 months against a very ordinary, limited Bournemouth style. Fans aren't currently asking for us to better 9th place. They're asking us to start looking and playing like a side who might even threaten to finish top half. Sadly the squad currently looks so unbalanced and disorganised as for that to look a pipe dream at this point.
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 23, 2017 11:19:19 GMT
Hughes achieved three 9th place finishes with basically a Pulis group of players. The time was ripe to change many of those players which Hughes has started to do, it now remains to be seen if he can achieve another 9th place, that's about the best we can hope for in this current PL, that's all I'm saying. Last season we didn't get near that though. Even in the third season when we ultimately finished 9th, results and performances tailed off alarmingly and have never really returned. There are numerous longstanding issues that have not been addressed and continue to worsen. If they're not put right, we'll be much much closer to 19th than 9th for the forseeable. You're quite right to say that progress doesn't always happen in a straight line, but if you saw us on Saturday Geoff, you'd have seen a performance every bit as bad as anything seen over the past 18 months against a very ordinary, limited Bournemouth style. Fans aren't currently asking for us to better 9th place. They're asking us to start looking and playing like a side who might even threaten to finish top half. Sadly the squad currently looks so unbalanced and disorganised as for that to look a pipe dream at this point. We were only 2 points off 8th place last season rob.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 23, 2017 11:21:15 GMT
You make it sound like it's just one of those things Geoff. In reality in a lot of the cases currently where there's dissent with the manager, the failings can be traced back to longstanding series of poor decisions that have seen even successful ones use up the credit they had in the bank. It's not just materialised from nowhere, it's happened for a reason. Poor decisions and reacting poorly to difficult situations will be what do for Koeman, Bilic and Hughes. Hughes achieved three 9th place finishes with basically a Pulis group of players. The time was ripe to change many of those players which Hughes has started to do, it now remains to be seen if he can achieve another 9th place, that's about the best we can hope for in this current PL, that's all I'm saying. Whilst I appreciate you don't actually watch the games Geoff so you won't understand what's actually going on on the pitch but the best we can hope for currently is not to get relegated. People aren't wondering whether or not we'll be able to finish 9th at the end of the season but are extremely worried about whether we'll even be IN the Premiership at the end of the season. And this is something that has been coming for a long time, by and large we have we been woeful over the last 18 months and there is a reason that we are bottom of the form table over the last 22 games.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 23, 2017 11:29:42 GMT
Last season we didn't get near that though. Even in the third season when we ultimately finished 9th, results and performances tailed off alarmingly and have never really returned. There are numerous longstanding issues that have not been addressed and continue to worsen. If they're not put right, we'll be much much closer to 19th than 9th for the forseeable. You're quite right to say that progress doesn't always happen in a straight line, but if you saw us on Saturday Geoff, you'd have seen a performance every bit as bad as anything seen over the past 18 months against a very ordinary, limited Bournemouth style. Fans aren't currently asking for us to better 9th place. They're asking us to start looking and playing like a side who might even threaten to finish top half. Sadly the squad currently looks so unbalanced and disorganised as for that to look a pipe dream at this point. We were only 2 points off 8th place last season rob. Southampton finished 8th and reached a cup final. They still sacked their manager and hardly anyone in their support mourned his exit. They'd still, by their standards, had a poor season you see Geoff, and the failure to address their problems saw the board act to try and pre-empt any possible slump. The table doesn't always tell the full story. Last season saw us finish in our lowest league position under Hughes, achieve fewer points, score fewer goals. We conceded four goals in a game on seven separate occasions. We salvaged three points all season from losing positions. We failed to beat anyone finishing above 14th until the last day, at Southampton. We won 4 of our last 17 games. That tells you what sort of season it was and what direction we'll be heading in if that stuff isn't put right. Nobody gets away with playing badly for very long.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Oct 23, 2017 11:30:26 GMT
What's the best football that we've seen since Stoke were promoted? We've had several really good spells, but most people would probably agree the stuff we were playing when we beat Man City 2-0 (the BMX/Stokealona spell) was the pinnacle. Is that the kind of stuff we should try to get back to? I don't think so. Because even if we do manage to replicate that and sustain it for a while, it won't last for long because the sort of players needed for that kind of football won't stay at Stoke. Arnie fucked off, Shaq will soon fuck off; there's no point in us even going there. We'd be much better off building something based around the football that Tony Pulis briefly hit upon at the end of our first season up or in that run up to the cup final: the up and at 'em style with pacy wingers, big lads up-front, solid back 4, tackling everything that moves in midfield...the sort of football that can be effectively played by 'no frills' footballers who aren't going to attract the attention of bigger fish. This isn't a call for TP to return- far from it, because we know that whenever he hit on something good he always dismantled it within a few weeks and reverted to horrible, ugly football so as not to raise expectations. No, it's a wish for something similar to what Chris Hughton's doing at Brighton- a bunch of no-names they might be, but they're players who fight for each other, have a gameplan and yet aren't exactly boring to watch either. Burnley are similar, if perhaps a bit more rough around the edges. Watford too- they have a bit of flair in key areas, but largely they're just big, athletic players who work hard and get stuck in. That's the sort of thing we need to get back to. I want us to be hard to beat, a pain in the arse to play against, but still decent enough to watch to get you off your seat now and again. At the moment we're just so fucking brittle and aimless, I can only see us going one way. In the short term, toughening us up and grinding a few points out (even if it is ugly) would get us out of trouble and keep us safe this season. In the long term, it's something we can maintain with a solid bunch of players as we look to return to being a top-half side who no-one enjoys playing against. I think it was Macari who once said we were a working class city that needed a working team . I think that remains a real truth for us. I don't see LMH in that mould and I think the club as a whole has lost its way with all the money flowing in and out again in recent years but for Stoke to succeed everyone has to be at it . Players and fans who are just as complacent now that includes directors recruitment the lot . This doesn't mean that the football has to be dull or defensive but we need to become mentally harder and fight for every point again and take nothing for granted. Once we get back to that we will pick up again . I like Dyche he is doing great with what he has as is Hughton .A manager who want Chris Wood is a lot more Stoke City than one who wants Saido Berahino in my book.
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 23, 2017 11:32:42 GMT
Hughes achieved three 9th place finishes with basically a Pulis group of players. The time was ripe to change many of those players which Hughes has started to do, it now remains to be seen if he can achieve another 9th place, that's about the best we can hope for in this current PL, that's all I'm saying. Whilst I appreciate you don't actually watch the games Geoff so you won't understand what's actually going on on the pitch but the best we can hope for currently is not to get relegated. People aren't wondering whether or not we'll be able to finish 9th at the end of the season but are extremely worried about whether we'll even be IN the Premiership at the end of the season. And this is something that has been coming for a long time, by and large we have we been woeful over the last 18 months and there is a reason that we are bottom of the form table over the last 22 games. The home form has been fairly good in terms of results, with a win over Arsenal and a draw with United. It's been a tough opening set of fixtures and I would imagine a 7-2 defeat at City, followed by a defeat to Bournemouth has started the panic. We've been here four times before with Hughes in terms of poor starts, you may well be correct that actual performances indicate a bigger problem this time, but my feeling is he will turn it round but not for a few games yet. The comment on another thread though that the Board is not going to panic makes me think they probably are.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 23, 2017 11:42:29 GMT
Whilst I appreciate you don't actually watch the games Geoff so you won't understand what's actually going on on the pitch but the best we can hope for currently is not to get relegated. People aren't wondering whether or not we'll be able to finish 9th at the end of the season but are extremely worried about whether we'll even be IN the Premiership at the end of the season. And this is something that has been coming for a long time, by and large we have we been woeful over the last 18 months and there is a reason that we are bottom of the form table over the last 22 games. The home form has been fairly good in terms of results, with a win over Arsenal and a draw with United. It's been a tough opening set of fixtures and I would imagine a 7-2 defeat at City, followed by a defeat to Bournemouth has started the panic. We've been here four times before with Hughes in terms of poor starts, you may well be correct that actual performances indicate a bigger problem this time, but my feeling is he will turn it round but not for a few games yet. The comment on another thread though that the Board is not going to panic makes me think they probably are. It isn't 'panic'. It's the inevitable response 18 months of decline
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Post by 3putts on Oct 23, 2017 11:44:02 GMT
dyche? ffs this is the manager who signed sjw past his sell by date and the injury prone phil bardsley if mh had signed two ageing players like this the board would have gone into meltdown. yes we are having a poor spell not helped by injuries but I think we will come out of this stronger.
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 23, 2017 11:46:01 GMT
The home form has been fairly good in terms of results, with a win over Arsenal and a draw with United. It's been a tough opening set of fixtures and I would imagine a 7-2 defeat at City, followed by a defeat to Bournemouth has started the panic. We've been here four times before with Hughes in terms of poor starts, you may well be correct that actual performances indicate a bigger problem this time, but my feeling is he will turn it round but not for a few games yet. The comment on another thread though that the Board is not going to panic makes me think they probably are. It isn't 'panic'. It's the inevitable response 18 months of decline It's a decline from the high level Hughes himself achieved though, isn't it?
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 23, 2017 11:51:12 GMT
It isn't 'panic'. It's the inevitable response 18 months of decline It's a decline from the high level Hughes himself achieved though, isn't it? What relevance does that have?? And anyway no. We are looking more and more like being embroiled in a relegation struggle. That is the main source of unease. Last season felt like 88/89. This feels like 89/90. Which isn't good at all.
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 23, 2017 12:10:49 GMT
It's a decline from the high level Hughes himself achieved though, isn't it? What relevance does that have?? And anyway no. We are looking more and more like being embroiled in a relegation struggle. That is the main source of unease. Last season felt like 88/89. This feels like 89/90. Which isn't good at all. It's relevant because the implication of your comment is that a manager who has had Stoke punching well above their weight cannot ever be allowed to decline from that position. If Hughes had achieved 8th last season, would you then expect 7th and then 6th, where does the expectation level stop?
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 23, 2017 12:14:52 GMT
What relevance does that have?? And anyway no. We are looking more and more like being embroiled in a relegation struggle. That is the main source of unease. Last season felt like 88/89. This feels like 89/90. Which isn't good at all. It's relevant because the implication of your comment is that a manager who has had Stoke punching well above their weight cannot ever be allowed to decline from that position. If Hughes had achieved 8th last season, would you then expect 7th and then 6th, where does the expectation level stop? None of that mate. The concern is we we could be relegated. Hughes is NOT suffering from unrealistic expectation. He is under pressure because we don't win enough games. It,s that simple. And we weren't punching above our weight. It's insulting to suggest we were.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 23, 2017 12:14:58 GMT
What relevance does that have?? And anyway no. We are looking more and more like being embroiled in a relegation struggle. That is the main source of unease. Last season felt like 88/89. This feels like 89/90. Which isn't good at all. It's relevant because the implication of your comment is that a manager who has had Stoke punching well above their weight cannot ever be allowed to decline from that position. If Hughes had achieved 8th last season, would you then expect 7th and then 6th, where does the expectation level stop? Geoff you're completely missing the point. The discontent isnt being driven by people being worried that Hughes won't get us in the top 8,9 or 10 but rather it's being driven by the very legitimate concern that he's going to get us relegated. Surely you can see the difference?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 23, 2017 12:17:23 GMT
What relevance does that have?? And anyway no. We are looking more and more like being embroiled in a relegation struggle. That is the main source of unease. Last season felt like 88/89. This feels like 89/90. Which isn't good at all. It's relevant because the implication of your comment is that a manager who has had Stoke punching well above their weight cannot ever be allowed to decline from that position. If Hughes had achieved 8th last season, would you then expect 7th and then 6th, where does the expectation level stop? I can answer that Geoff. 'It depends'. Following up the first 9th place with the second 9th place, nobody had a pop at Hughes for not finishing 8th. We were developing as a team and playing good stuff and there was real excitement. The following year's 9th had a lot more disappointment attached to it because we had a desperately poor end to the season and numerous tannings and it felt like we limped over the line. Last season marked a continuation and worsening of those same problems, which is why Hughes used up so much credit. This season, after a decent start, those same problems again have resurfaced. It' is the manager's job to address them and there's very little evidence he knows how. Precisely how long should this patience last?
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 23, 2017 12:28:43 GMT
It's relevant because the implication of your comment is that a manager who has had Stoke punching well above their weight cannot ever be allowed to decline from that position. If Hughes had achieved 8th last season, would you then expect 7th and then 6th, where does the expectation level stop? Geoff you're completely missing the point. The discontent isnt being driven by people being worried that Hughes won't get us in the top 8,9 or 10 but rather it's being driven by the very legitimate concern that he's going to get us relegated. Surely you can see the difference? I have looked at the record of Mark Hughes as a manager, both of Stoke and other clubs, I am certain he won't take us down. If for one moment I thought that relegation was a serious threat then I would be calling for him to go. Some are calling for him to go because they never wanted him in the first place, others because they think the club should be achieving better results and a few who fear relegation. Hughes has put together a new team, we need to give him time to get them to gel, in my view.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 23, 2017 12:33:41 GMT
Geoff you're completely missing the point. The discontent isnt being driven by people being worried that Hughes won't get us in the top 8,9 or 10 but rather it's being driven by the very legitimate concern that he's going to get us relegated. Surely you can see the difference? I have looked at the record of Mark Hughes as a manager, both of Stoke and other clubs, I am certain he won't take us down. If for one moment I thought that relegation was a serious threat then I would be calling for him to go. Some are calling for him to go because they never wanted him in the first place, others because they think the club should be achieving better results and a few who fear relegation. Hughes has put together a new team, we need to give him time to get them to gel, in my view. How can you be 'certain' that he won't take us down if you're not actually seeing what's going on on the pitch? Don't you think the people who ARE seeing what's going on on the pitch might have legitimate reason to be concerned? As you're basing your opinion on statistics, why do you think we are bottom of the form table over the last 22 games?
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 23, 2017 12:42:14 GMT
I have looked at the record of Mark Hughes as a manager, both of Stoke and other clubs, I am certain he won't take us down. If for one moment I thought that relegation was a serious threat then I would be calling for him to go. Some are calling for him to go because they never wanted him in the first place, others because they think the club should be achieving better results and a few who fear relegation. Hughes has put together a new team, we need to give him time to get them to gel, in my view. How can you be 'certain' that he won't take us down if you're not actually seeing what's going on on the pitch? Don't you think the people who ARE seeing what's going on on the pitch might have legitimate reason to be concerned? As you're basing your opinion on statistics, why do you think we are bottom of the form table over the last 22 games? Do you seriously think Paul that in the age of television and the internet that I see nothing of Stoke's performances, see no pundit's comments, see no press reports, see no fans reactions, see no interviews with Hughes and players, see no comments on the Oatcake etc, etc.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 23, 2017 12:53:40 GMT
How can you be 'certain' that he won't take us down if you're not actually seeing what's going on on the pitch? Don't you think the people who ARE seeing what's going on on the pitch might have legitimate reason to be concerned? As you're basing your opinion on statistics, why do you think we are bottom of the form table over the last 22 games? Do you seriously think Paul that in the age of television and the internet that I see nothing of Stoke's performances, see no pundit's comments, see no press reports, see no fans reactions, see no interviews with Hughes and players, see no comments on the Oatcake etc, etc. Are you talking about MOTD highlights or are you watching live streams?
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