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Post by CashBack on Aug 14, 2017 9:28:16 GMT
Well it was a nice idea while it lasted. The old guard being moved out, exciting prospects promoted to the first team with the club going to the lengths to release media stories about it. Bench/starting time guaranteed with the departure of Arnie.
I completely get that they may not be ready, they may never even make it. However all three have had fantastic plaudits, pundits and ex players across the game picking them out as future stars and nominations to prestigious world youth awards. You can only reach your potential or find out what your potential actually is if you are playing first team football.
So where do all three go from here? I know all three have signed contracts, but it's the fact that their route to the first team is once again full and we have shown no interest so far (I get we don't hear what goes on behind the scenes) in loaning them out.
I'm not as concerned with Verlinden, age on his side, needs time to get over injury and fantastic prospect. Ngoy and Ramadan however, they are at the crucial stage where it could make or break them. 5 mins here and there and u23 games at the age of 20/21 will not suffice.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 9:28:47 GMT
Squad game
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 14, 2017 9:31:04 GMT
We always needed players in, we weren't going to replace Arnie with one of them, hopefully they'll still get some game time with rotation/injuries etc
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Post by Clem Fandango on Aug 14, 2017 9:34:09 GMT
Id say one or two them need a loan.
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Post by CashBack on Aug 14, 2017 9:46:47 GMT
Absolutely, but my point is, do you see Ramadan getting any more game time than last season with arguably only 2 spots available now behind the strikers (whether you believe he deserves it or not!). Ngoy and Verlindan, rightly, are behind him the pecking order. Ngoy only got game time last season due to the ACN. Loans are paramount. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 9:47:34 GMT
Absolutely, but my point is, do you see Ramadan getting any more game time than last season with arguably only 2 spots available now behind the strikers (whether you believe he deserves it or not!). Ngoy and Verlindan, rightly, are behind him the pecking order. Ngoy only got game time last season due to the ACN. Loans are paramount. Bojan will be off I'm convinced of it..... |
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Post by VolvicStokie on Aug 14, 2017 9:50:22 GMT
Ramadan is going to get game time, 100%
He would NOT have signed a new contract if he was going to sit on the bench all season.
Remember, Shaq's injury record is, well... shocking. Jese coming in, can't be 100% certain he will take to the Premier League straight away, but all the same... it's a squad game, Ramadan will come in and have a huuuuuuuuge part to play this season
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Post by CashBack on Aug 14, 2017 9:52:04 GMT
Ramadan is going to get game time, 100% He would NOT have signed a new contract if he was going to sit on the bench all season. Remember, Shaq's injury record is, well... shocking. Jese coming in, can't be 100% certain he will take to the Premier League straight away, but all the same... it's a squad game, Ramadan will come in and have a huuuuuuuuge part to play this season Be great if he does, I'm just hoping he hasn't let himself down due to his Pre-Season fitness issues and missed his chance to grab a starting spot before the new boys start scoring! |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 14, 2017 9:53:09 GMT
If we can get either Ngoy or Verlinden a good loan we should take it.
We will have Shaq, Jese, Moting and Ramadan as the 4 forward options. So it could be worth keeping one of them around but not both.
I think we'll have a striker pool of a new one, Berahino and Crouch. With Diouf waiting in the wings (literally).
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Post by Block 22 on Aug 14, 2017 9:59:00 GMT
Ramadan will be used this season. Unlike NGoy and Verlinden. Can't include Ramadan in this.
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tizzer
Academy Starlet
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Post by tizzer on Aug 14, 2017 10:02:45 GMT
Id say one or two them need a loan. I can't see us loaning them out as they are in the 25 man squad. |
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Post by frodekippe on Aug 14, 2017 10:07:54 GMT
Think you might be hitting the "ABORT!" button a tad early on this one. Let's see how they play when they get their chance against Rochdale. We can't just expect to throw them all straight in to the first Premier League game when we have a full squad available of experienced professionals. The squad has been trimmed and they will get their chance, just be patient.
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Post by CashBack on Aug 14, 2017 10:15:26 GMT
At some point though, if we want our huge Academy investment to pay off, we will need to make the hard choice of pushing these type of players into key back up spots or even starting spots and not replace first team players with first team players aged 25-30. I understand the need to have players with pedigree and proven ability as we have to score goals but we haven't scored bucketfuls of goals at any point in our Prem stint. We gambled on an unfit striker for 12M who hasn't scored since joining. Would playing Ngoy for example and giving him the same opportunity have been any more of a gamble? He might not have scored in any of those 14 games either but the experienced gained would be invaluable.
Is our fanbase ready to give these players a sustained chance though ahead of "rock the city" signings?
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Post by manicstreetpotter on Aug 14, 2017 12:12:19 GMT
Well it was a nice idea while it lasted. The old guard being moved out, exciting prospects promoted to the first team with the club going to the lengths to release media stories about it. Bench/starting time guaranteed with the departure of Arnie. I completely get that they may not be ready, they may never even make it. However all three have had fantastic plaudits, pundits and ex players across the game picking them out as future stars and nominations to prestigious world youth awards. You can only reach your potential or find out what your potential actually is if you are playing first team football. So where do all three go from here? I know all three have signed contracts, but it's the fact that their route to the first team is once again full and we have shown no interest so far (I get we don't hear what goes on behind the scenes) in loaning them out. I'm not as concerned with Verlinden, age on his side, needs time to get over injury and fantastic prospect. Ngoy and Ramadan however, they are at the crucial stage where it could make or break them. 5 mins here and there and u23 games at the age of 20/21 will not suffice. Jesus, we've only played one game. |
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Post by Gods on Aug 14, 2017 12:17:53 GMT
I think we'll see a lot of Ramadan.
As for Ngoy and Verlinden, I don't think we will see either of them as and until we have enough points on the board such that it appears certain we won't be in a relegation scrap, and perhaps not even then.
In short if there is any remote possibility the management teams jobs may be on the line they won't play.
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Post by lordb on Aug 14, 2017 12:19:10 GMT
get Ngoy out at St Pauli
maybe Edwards too
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 14, 2017 12:19:26 GMT
Ngoy is a striker so his route to the first team is just about to get easier, with Joselu leaving, not harder.
I agree Verlinden needs to be tested out in the big bad world and surely he is the ideal case for our first loan to St Pauli?
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Post by CashBack on Aug 14, 2017 12:52:23 GMT
I think we'll see a lot of Ramadan. As for Ngoy and Verlinden, I don't think we will see either of them as and until we have enough points on the board such that it appears certain we won't be in a relegation scrap, and perhaps not even then. In short if there is any remote possibility the management teams jobs may be on the line they won't play.The important point here being, when is the management teams jobs never on the line in the cut throat Premier League era? As soon as we have enough points, the next aim with 3-4 games to go has always been to finish that one/two places higher for the cash and to do that, the easy thing is to rely on experience. All the right things were said in the media by the management team at the end of last season about blooding some youngsters or "surprising selections" once we were safe. However that did not materialise, as we chased a couple of places for a couple of million. It again comes back to making that hard choice. Southampton, Everton etc are teams that are happy to. I completely understand they have been successful at academy level and churning out first team players for donkeys years but how do we get to that stage? Is it quality of the player or Club strategy that is the first step? |
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 16, 2017 15:22:42 GMT
It's looking like Verlinden and Ngoy will be loaned out - and they may even be further away from the XI than when last season ended.
And when you look at the options, couldn't categorically rule out a loan for Sobhi. He's going to be very fringey this year if he stays and you can't see that being ideal for a talented, developing 20-year-old.
Without knowing how good Bundesliga 2 is, hard to know whether Ngoy or Verlinden could go in and really contribute for St Pauli?
If not, it'll be interesting to see where they turn up.
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moz
Academy Starlet
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Post by moz on Aug 16, 2017 15:32:41 GMT
All three of them should be loaned out at least for this season.
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Post by chuckrocky on Aug 16, 2017 15:56:16 GMT
How can the manager rely on Ngoy and Verlinden when they can't stay fit? They both need a loan.
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Post by TexasPotter on Aug 16, 2017 15:56:49 GMT
Rochdale and cup matches for them and league squad players. Ramadan will start before the other two, but it is going to happen.
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Post by ChesterStokie on Aug 16, 2017 15:58:50 GMT
I was about to say 'and therein lies the problem for the England national team'- decent youngsters not getting a chance because of quick fix foreign imports.
And then I realised all 3 of the youngsters are foreigners!
And to think but a few days ago the media were CELEBRATING the 25th anniversary of the Premier League!
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 16, 2017 16:11:32 GMT
Ngoy should be loaned out to a championship team if possible. He needs to be playing in full on competitive games.
Physically he looks ready; a few months in the Championship will show if he has the mental attributes to become a really good player.
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Post by redstriper on Aug 16, 2017 16:37:13 GMT
Ramadan is good enough for the first team now. He doesn't need to be loaned out anywhere, he needs to be playing for Stoke.
The others - game time elsewhere is probably a good option....but first up i'd like to see all three against Rochdale.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 17:24:55 GMT
The way I look at is, we've sold Arnie and Walters and brought in a loan signing and a free transfer in that type of position. It seems to me like the 3 players the OP mentions are well in line to chance this season. It makes sense to me to get the 2 players we have in case all 3 fail spectacularly.
Also, everybody seems to feel 3-4-3 is set in stone, but I don't see that as the case at the moment. We're one right back signing away from having a very viable 4 2 3 1 first 11 as well.
Of course, it could be that Hughes has fully set his heart on the formation from the Everton game, and that he fully believes the youngsters aren't up to it, but I definitely think there's evidence enough (especially with Sobhi getting a few games and a new contract) that he isn thinking that way.
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Post by scfcballers on Aug 18, 2017 7:58:27 GMT
Ngoy is out for 5-6 weeks with a thigh strain.
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Post by CashBack on Aug 18, 2017 8:03:45 GMT
Ngoy is out for 5-6 weeks with a thigh strain. Shame, especially if Shaq suffers one if his early season niggles |
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 18, 2017 8:08:55 GMT
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Aug 18, 2017 8:12:10 GMT
Ramadan is going to get game time, 100% He would NOT have signed a new contract if he was going to sit on the bench all season. Remember, Shaq's injury record is, well... shocking. Jese coming in, can't be 100% certain he will take to the Premier League straight away, but all the same... it's a squad game, Ramadan will come in and have a huuuuuuuuge part to play this season I hope this is the case. History since ramadan signed suggests otherwise. I really think the contract extension is for sell-on purposes. If ramadan is here next august i will be very very surprised |
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