|
|
Post by Ex-term-oat-cake on Aug 13, 2017 10:27:15 GMT
Ok so the Everton game confirmed a lot of what we already know...
Berahino isn't a lone striker
Pieters isn't a wing back
Shaqiri is probably our most dangerous player
Fletcher is an upgrade on Whelan
Our defence looks good (Butland + BMI, Ryan, Zouma)
We simply MUST GET TO THE BYLINE
So....
If the aim is to create a system to help Saido score....
You'd have to go 3-5-2.
Assuming Joselu and Bojan on way out...
With the players we have that's:
[Option 1]
Choupo Berahino
Sobhi Cameron Fletcher Allen Shaqiri
Or
[Option 2]
Berahino Shaqiri
Choupo Cameron Fletcher Allen Diouf
Or
[Option 3]
Diouf Berahino
Sobhi Cameron Fletcher Allen Shaqiri
Which just goes to show how badly we need proper wing backs. And how the squad is still unbalanced.
And can Sobhi, Shaq, Choupo or Diouf function as wing backs?
Dropping Saido doesn't really solve the problem unless we buy the type of forward who can work on their own, giving us a 3-5-1-1 of:
[Option 4 - no Saido option]
NEW STRIKER
Shaqiri
Sobhi Cameron Fletcher Allen Diouf
so what do people think? 1,2,3,4? Something else?
|
|
|
|
Post by jebbstuart on Aug 13, 2017 10:52:08 GMT
you could have had the messi up front but he would struggle to score we lack the ability to create and sustain pressure we need crouch if we want a target to hit and hold em up. we need someone who can stretch and cross the ball and we need pace up front to play the line and expose the gaps and run into space. at the moment we struggle on all fronts. this is not a new problem but one we have had for a few seasons. the gamble on berahino has not paid off he still looks yards off the pace and low in confidence. shaqiri looks better playing in the hole but needs to shoot instead of trying to beat the whole defence although teams know he is the creative one and try and shut him down asap. one game down we got to hope it improves
|
|
|
|
Post by stokeoptimist on Aug 13, 2017 11:01:22 GMT
I think Ramadan could play LWB and Joselu up front would give us the mobile physicality that we need, chop and Sobhi on the left would work well and give better creative quality
|
|
|
|
Post by Ex-term-oat-cake on Aug 13, 2017 11:06:59 GMT
I think Ramadan could play LWB and Joselu up front would give us the mobile physicality that we need, chop and Sobhi on the left would work well and give better creative quality So option 1 then... |
|
|
|
Post by GrahamHyde on Aug 13, 2017 11:29:54 GMT
Bojan on way out?
|
|
|
|
Post by burge2u on Aug 13, 2017 12:36:11 GMT
A friend who is a West Brom fan keeps on telling me that Berahino is not a lone striker.
|
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 13, 2017 12:38:37 GMT
Get a new manager.
That appears to be the only way.
|
|
|
|
Post by iglugluk on Aug 13, 2017 12:47:57 GMT
It seems to me that the current mindset is one of fear......fear of relegation and subsequent career failure, which is not a good place to be in for any manager who is finding it difficult to identify a good goal scoring, appropriately attacking game strategy.
It's obviously a difficult balance to strike for any mid-table club in this league, but he simply has to try something different, as we have struggled with a good balance for a considerable time now.
|
|
|
|
Post by PB1863 on Aug 13, 2017 12:50:33 GMT
It's bizarre that one of the greatest strikers that played in England cannot get a striker to score goals. It doesn't make sense
|
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 13, 2017 12:57:02 GMT
I think Ramadan could play LWB and Joselu up front would give us the mobile physicality that we need, chop and Sobhi on the left would work well and give better creative quality You don't want a right footed player playing as a left wing back. He'll have to tackle the right winger he's marking with the outside of his foot and when he goes forward he's not going to be able to whip in a cross from the left. Being an inverted winger who cuts in on the inside is a completely different thing altogether. |
|
|
|
Post by superheroantonius on Aug 13, 2017 12:57:11 GMT
Butland
Zouma Shawcross Indi
Sobhi Shaq Fletcher Adam moting
diouf crouch
A couple of forwards to keep their centre backs occupied and players who can cross the ball out wide.
Yes I know Adam is off the pace and needs replacing, but he just seems to know when and where to hit the ball when crouchy is around. Especially if he's playing left of centre.
|
|
|
|
Post by sanmarinostokie on Aug 13, 2017 13:02:29 GMT
Ok so the Everton game confirmed a lot of what we already know... Berahino isn't a lone striker Pieters isn't a wing back Shaqiri is probably our most dangerous player Fletcher is an upgrade on Whelan Our defence looks good (Butland + BMI, Ryan, Zouma) We simply MUST GET TO THE BYLINE So.... If the aim is to create a system to help Saido score.... You'd have to go 3-5-2. Assuming Joselu and Bojan on way out... With the players we have that's: [Option 1] Choupo Berahino Sobhi Cameron Fletcher Allen Shaqiri Or [Option 2] Berahino Shaqiri Choupo Cameron Fletcher Allen Diouf Or [Option 3] Diouf Berahino Sobhi Cameron Fletcher Allen Shaqiri Which just goes to show how badly we need proper wing backs. And how the squad is still unbalanced. And can Sobhi, Shaq, Choupo or Diouf function as wing backs? Dropping Saido doesn't really solve the problem unless we buy the type of forward who can work on their own, giving us a 3-5-1-1 of: [Option 4 - no Saido option] NEW STRIKER Shaqiri Sobhi Cameron Fletcher Allen Diouf so what do people think? 1,2,3,4? Something else? None of them options are viable really. 1 and 3 aren't because Shaqiri is never going to be a wing back as he does not have the work ethic. 2 because he isn't a striker. And he won't play a midfield three of Fletcher, Allen and Cameron, there will be a second number 10. Choupo up front or as a wing back could be interesting though. |
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 13, 2017 13:02:51 GMT
I think Ramadan could play LWB and Joselu up front would give us the mobile physicality that we need, chop and Sobhi on the left would work well and give better creative quality You don't want a right footed player playing as a left wing back. He'll have to tackle the right winger he's marking with the outside of his foot and when he goes forward he's not going to be able to whip in a cross from the left. Being an inverted winger who cuts in on the inside is a completely different thing altogether. This should not need repeating - but it does. There are far too many Stokies who don't appreciate that inverted wingers can't simply be played as wing backs on the same side of the pitch. To become wing backs inverted wingers would need to switch wings - and even then there is no guarantee it would work - although, ironically, it has worked with our ex loanee Moses. For us he was a left sided inverted winger, for the current Chelsea side he is a right wing back. |
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Aug 13, 2017 13:04:59 GMT
The problem of not being able to score is quite simple.
We do not have any creative players who can execute a defence splitting pass or cross a telling ball that is begging to be put into the net.
This problem is compounded by a lack of movement into free space by our forward players because they are too slow to get away from their markers, or don't have guile to slip their man the way Rooney got away from Allen yesterday to get into a free scoring position. Ironically Pieters who is normally useless at crossing, put a peach of a ball across behind their defence yesterday but not 1 of 3 Stoke players got to it.
We need wide players who can cross quality balls, and mid-field players who can thread passes through the opposition, and a striker who can convert such opportunities into goals. The later might still be Berahino, we just don't know, because he is never given a quality pass to score from.
|
|
|
|
Post by sanmarinostokie on Aug 13, 2017 13:06:01 GMT
Butland Zouma Shawcross Indi Sobhi Shaq Fletcher Adam moting diouf crouch A couple of forwards to keep their centre backs occupied and players who can cross the ball out wide. Yes I know Adam is off the pace and needs replacing, but he just seems to know when and where to hit the ball when crouchy is around. Especially if he's playing left of centre. Just no. That midfield will be so overrun. Shaqiri won't offer enough defensively. And so it will be left to Fletcher and him to defend. Something he won't do because he simply can't. Therefore Fletcher a is expected to protect the back three on his own. Both wing backs are attacking, which only makes sense if you are the best teams in the league, we can get away with one |
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 13, 2017 13:07:51 GMT
The problem of not being able to score is quite simple. We do not have any creative players who can execute a defence splitting pass or cross a telling ball that is begging to be put into the net. This problem is compounded by a lack of movement into free space by our forward players because they are too slow to get away from their markers, or don't have guile to slip their man the way Rooney got away from Allen yesterday to get into a free scoring position. Ironically Pieters who is normally useless at crossing, put a peach of a ball across behind their defence yesterday but not 1 of 3 Stoke players got to it. We need wide players who can cross quality balls, and mid-field players who can thread passes through the opposition, and a striker who can convert such opportunities into goals. The later might still be Berahino, we just don't know, because he is never given a quality pass to score from. I think Shaqiri can (and does) execute defence splitting passes. But, to get the best out of him he needs to be played in a central role behind, preferably, two strikers. At the moment Hughes seems to want him to be an inverted right sided player AND and a central (number 10) player. Can't be done - give him a run as a pure number 10 behind two strikers. EDIT: To have Shaq behind two strikers, Hughes needs to have wing backs on either side of the pitch to provide pace and width. Diouf can do it on the right, at a pinch (although we must hope Edwards becomes the real deal quickly) but we MUST get a specialist left sided wing back immediately. |
|
|
|
Post by philb on Aug 13, 2017 13:09:43 GMT
4-4-2 and play Choupo-Moting and Berahino up front
|
|
|
|
Post by sheriffofrockridge on Aug 13, 2017 13:11:54 GMT
I think Ramadan could play LWB and Joselu up front would give us the mobile physicality that we need, chop and Sobhi on the left would work well and give better creative quality You don't want a right footed player playing as a left wing back. He'll have to tackle the right winger he's marking with the outside of his foot Not if you're playing against an inverted winger who's always cutting inside. |
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Aug 13, 2017 13:13:55 GMT
4-4-2 and play Choupo-Moting and Berahino up front better 3-5-2, but I agree with your 2. |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 13, 2017 13:19:39 GMT
You don't want a right footed player playing as a left wing back. He'll have to tackle the right winger he's marking with the outside of his foot Not if you're playing against an inverted winger who's always cutting inside. Ha ha, well yes there is that I suppose! Can't really think of many wrong footed wing backs in the Prem though. |
|
|
|
Post by duckling on Aug 13, 2017 13:20:26 GMT
You clearly have some solid defenders. Maybe it's most practical to take the Pulis approach by conceding few goals and focus on scoring from set pieces. 49% of West Brom's goals last season were from set pieces.
I know this brings back traumatic memories for many fans, but going down would be traumatic too.
|
|
|
|
Post by nottinghamstokie on Aug 13, 2017 13:27:32 GMT
It's bizarre that one of the greatest strikers that played in England cannot get a striker to score goals. It doesn't make sense Being a great striker doesnt for one second make you a good judge of them ! Hughes convinced me of that when he signed Zamora for QPR |
|
|
|
Post by potterboy on Aug 13, 2017 13:51:17 GMT
I'm going to go unfashionable 442.
Let's keep it simple. We have the players to use this basic formation which we could tailor to have numerous attacking or defensive elements.
This lone rubbish or these floating players is nonsense.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2017 14:14:31 GMT
I would go 3412
Butland
Zouma
ShawX
Indi
Diouff
Fletcher
Allen
Pieters
Shaqiri
Crouch
Berhaino (if the object is to make him score)
Moting looked ok yesterday but he's not going to be ready for 90 mins for a couple of weeks.
If we are buying a striker to play with Berahino, a new LWB and a new CM to compete with Pieters and Allen that would be good. obviously moting and ramadan can come in to the team.
We dont have many undroppables, I'd like to think the players on form will play.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2017 14:16:42 GMT
I think Ramadan could play LWB and Joselu up front would give us the mobile physicality that we need, chop and Sobhi on the left would work well and give better creative quality You don't want a right footed player playing as a left wing back. He'll have to tackle the right winger he's marking with the outside of his foot and when he goes forward he's not going to be able to whip in a cross from the left. Being an inverted winger who cuts in on the inside is a completely different thing altogether. It's as if people don't actually watch football... |
|
|
|
Post by dioufsboots on Aug 13, 2017 14:47:03 GMT
We do not own any wing backs,but we have a few decent wingers
why we would want play a system using wing backs and also taking away the threat of our wingers i will never know
4231 or good old 442 for me
|
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Aug 13, 2017 15:05:44 GMT
Get a new manager. That appears to be the only way. I agree. The OP clearly highlights the crux of the problem, which is flawed transfer policy. We are in an a big mess by placing all our faith in one striker (Berahino) who nobody else wanted and can only play in a front two. So the only formations that will work for Berahino are 3-5-2 or 3-4-3. However, both systems require two wing-backs, which we don't have (in fact we never have been strong in those positions). Nobody can argue that last season was not a shambles. No doubt, signing Zouma and Martins Indi has strengthened the back three and Fletcher is an upgrade on Whelan so we likely to concede fewer goals than last season. But our biggest deficiency has not been addressed - WHERE ARE THE GOALS COMING FROM? |
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 13, 2017 15:11:49 GMT
Get a new manager. That appears to be the only way. I agree. The OP clearly highlights the crux of the problem, which is flawed transfer policy. We are in an a big mess by placing all our faith in one striker (Berahino) who nobody else wanted and can only play in a front two. So the only formations that will work for Berahino are 3-5-2 or 3-4-3. However, both systems require two wing-backs, which we don't have (in fact we never have been strong in those positions). Nobody can argue that last season was not a shambles. No doubt, signing Zouma and Martins Indi has strengthened the back three and Fletcher is an upgrade on Whelan so we likely to concede fewer goals than last season. But our biggest deficiency has not been addressed - WHERE ARE THE GOALS COMING FROM? Exactly! The OP only highlights what a shambles it is. It's not just Hughes though. The pizza boys have played their part in this muddled thinking for sure. |
|
|
|
Post by Miles Offside on Aug 13, 2017 16:14:20 GMT
It's not just our scoring problem Hughes has to sort, there are defensive problems he needs to address too.
And I don't think they'll all be sorted by signing new players.
He's signed the equivalent of three full sides (permanent and loan signings) in the four years he's been at Stoke, but he still finished up yesterday using four players he inherited.
It'd help if he spent some time coaching his defence. We had three CBs and a keeper with an average height of 6ft 4" yesterday and Rooney scored the winner with a header.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2017 16:17:18 GMT
Quite simple cross into box striker kicks or heads it into goal.
Only problem is we do not cross and when we do it hits the fooking corner flag.
|
|
