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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 29, 2017 17:58:56 GMT
It's funny how a player can do poorly in a friendly and be completely written off, yet do well in a friendly and "it's only a friendly". I'm not sure that this is what people are saying with Joselu though, he has never been given the opportunity others have I don't get your point mate. I'm pro-Joselu!
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Post by Uncle cheese on Jul 29, 2017 18:02:37 GMT
I'm not sure that this is what people are saying with Joselu though, he has never been given the opportunity others have I don't get your point mate. I'm pro-Joselu! I didn't read your post properly! I originally thought you wee having a pop
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Post by ohbottom on Jul 29, 2017 18:03:41 GMT
Hang on, leaving aside whatever systems were played and who else was playing when Bera was on the field vs when Joselu was there - how many actual chances to score did each player have, and how many of those chances did they convert?
The bottom line is that a striker's principle role is to convert chances to goals. If we're not scoring because we're not creating chances that's a team problem. If we're not scoring because we're not converting chances, that's a player problem
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 29, 2017 18:05:20 GMT
Hang on, leaving aside whatever systems were played and who else was playing when Bera was on the field vs when Joselu was there - how many actual chances to score did each player have, and how many of those chances did they convert? The bottom line is that a striker's principle role is to convert chances to goals. If we're not scoring because we're not creating chances that's a team problem. If we're not scoring because we're not converting chances, that's a player problem The sign of a bad striker isn't so much missing chances as never being in the position to get chances imo.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 18:08:34 GMT
He ( Joselu) always struck me as a skilful but 'non contacts sports ' kind of player -
BUT if he gets in the box
finds space in the box and IF,
he puts the ball in the net
one answer to one of our many problems might just be, right under our nose
will Mark Hughes see it like this though ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 18:10:37 GMT
Next week we have to start with joselu and berahino. For me they could make the perfect partnership. One can drop off and link as the other makes the run in behind. With our pathetic goals for record it's worth a go
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Post by Block 22 on Jul 29, 2017 18:11:28 GMT
Hang on, leaving aside whatever systems were played and who else was playing when Bera was on the field vs when Joselu was there - how many actual chances to score did each player have, and how many of those chances did they convert? The bottom line is that a striker's principle role is to convert chances to goals. If we're not scoring because we're not creating chances that's a team problem. If we're not scoring because we're not converting chances, that's a player problem Is your summary that Joselu scored 100% of 2 chances and Berahino scored 0% of 1 chance? Irrespective of systems and other team personnel.
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Post by owdestokie on Jul 29, 2017 18:14:41 GMT
IMHO.. Clutching at straws!! Nice footballer if allowed to play at his pace, in his own time. Premiership = No chance. Not in anyway being personal against perhaps a nice guy.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jul 29, 2017 18:15:38 GMT
What's your opinion on berahino? I'm not saying Joselu is the answer but surely he's a better option. He has actually scored goals for us without that much game time He certainly hasn't been given the opportunity that others have I don't know, really. I didn't really rate him before he joined, but he had a lot of potential at one point and would still fulfill it if given the proper support. I think that's the difference between the two. Joselu is what he is, but Berahino is an investment in the future.
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Post by senojbor on Jul 29, 2017 18:15:48 GMT
Hang on, leaving aside whatever systems were played and who else was playing when Bera was on the field vs when Joselu was there - how many actual chances to score did each player have, and how many of those chances did they convert? The bottom line is that a striker's principle role is to convert chances to goals. If we're not scoring because we're not creating chances that's a team problem. If we're not scoring because we're not converting chances, that's a player problem Is your summary that Joselu scored 100% of 2 chances and Berahino scored 0% of 1 chance? Irrespective of systems and other team personnel. Are you his agent or something? He is seriously gash mate.
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Post by Block 22 on Jul 29, 2017 18:17:27 GMT
Is your summary that Joselu scored 100% of 2 chances and Berahino scored 0% of 1 chance? Irrespective of systems and other team personnel. Are you his agent or something? He is seriously gash mate. Who is?
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Post by ohbottom on Jul 29, 2017 18:22:06 GMT
Hang on, leaving aside whatever systems were played and who else was playing when Bera was on the field vs when Joselu was there - how many actual chances to score did each player have, and how many of those chances did they convert? The bottom line is that a striker's principle role is to convert chances to goals. If we're not scoring because we're not creating chances that's a team problem. If we're not scoring because we're not converting chances, that's a player problem Is your summary that Joselu scored 100% of 2 chances and Berahino scored 0% of 1 chance? Irrespective of systems and other team personnel. Not quite! Did Bera only get one chance? Difficult to tell from Signal's commentary but I had the impression he had more. No, my point was that there seems to be a lot of excuse making for Bera with the implication that if he'd had the service Jos had perhaps he'd have actually scored. I suggest there's no evidence to support that.
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Post by Uncle cheese on Jul 29, 2017 18:23:00 GMT
What's your opinion on berahino? I'm not saying Joselu is the answer but surely he's a better option. He has actually scored goals for us without that much game time He certainly hasn't been given the opportunity that others have I don't know, really. I didn't really rate him before he joined, but he had a lot of potential at one point and would still fulfill it if given the proper support. I think that's the difference between the two. Joselu is what he is, but Berahino is an investment in the future. I get your point, perhaps it's more of an attitude problem with berahino? Maybe that's why he's been poor for us so far Or maybe it's a lack of game time over the previous 2 years or so? Here's hoping it's the latter
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Post by Block 22 on Jul 29, 2017 18:27:07 GMT
Is your summary that Joselu scored 100% of 2 chances and Berahino scored 0% of 1 chance? Irrespective of systems and other team personnel. Not quite! Did Bera only get one chance? Difficult to tell from Signal's commentary but I had the impression he had more. No, my point was that there seems to be a lot of excuse making for Bera with the implication that if he'd had the service Jos had perhaps he'd have actually scored. I suggest there's no evidence to support that. There is also no evidence to support the fact that Berahino wouldn't have scored a hat trick today if Bojan and Diouf were on the pitch from the get go.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 29, 2017 18:27:54 GMT
He ( Joselu) always struck me as a skilful but 'non contacts sports ' kind of player - BUT if he gets in the box finds space in the box and, puts the ball in the net one answer to one of our many problems might just be, right under our nose will Mark Hughes see it like this though ? He's always done that. He's a clever striker who makes good runs; ideal for Shaq who can thread the ball through to him.
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Post by Alvechurch Assassin on Jul 29, 2017 18:29:13 GMT
Feed the fuckin Jos.
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Post by ohbottom on Jul 29, 2017 18:46:05 GMT
Not quite! Did Bera only get one chance? Difficult to tell from Signal's commentary but I had the impression he had more. No, my point was that there seems to be a lot of excuse making for Bera with the implication that if he'd had the service Jos had perhaps he'd have actually scored. I suggest there's no evidence to support that. There is also no evidence to support the fact that Berahino wouldn't have scored a hat trick today if Bojan and Diouf were on the pitch from the get go. Forgive me, my head's getting fuzzy from the Old Peculier. What do you mean by "the fact"? If you're saying what I think you're saying, then by the same token there's no evidence that, say, N'Goy or Campbell (or indeed me) wouldn't have scored a hat-trick if they'd played. On the other hand, there IS evidence that Bera misses open goals...... I don't have a particular axe to grind about Jos or Bera, but it does seem that this board is often more forgiving of some players than others, for no obvious reason that I can see.
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Post by Uncle cheese on Jul 29, 2017 18:49:40 GMT
IMHO.. Clutching at straws!! Nice footballer if allowed to play at his pace, in his own time. Premiership = No chance. Not in anyway being personal against perhaps a nice guy. I don't know how you can say this. He has scored goals for us but never given a proper run of games. Give him a run of games
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Post by superheroantonius on Jul 29, 2017 18:54:52 GMT
First goal
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Post by superheroantonius on Jul 29, 2017 18:57:27 GMT
Second goal
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Post by Fredrikstad Norway on Jul 29, 2017 18:58:53 GMT
Ofcourse is Joselu the answer. Sent Berahino out on loan and buy a new striker that can compete with Joselu or be a partner on top.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Jul 29, 2017 19:00:04 GMT
Butland Zouma Shawcross Cameron Johnson Allen Fletcher Sobhi Shaq Bojan Joselu I think that's how I'd start vs Everton if we don't sign anyone. Replace Johnson with Diouf, who was excellent today and I'd be ok with that starting 11.
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Post by TheRealTimShady on Jul 29, 2017 19:23:55 GMT
Can see the advantage of playing joselu as he is more of a deep lying forward and gets more involved in the build up than our other options. This would mean the likes of shaq and bojan could get in behind him and contribute with more goals. However he has never really scored that many goals wherever he has played. I think we should stick with Saido as he is our best option to get us the most goals if we can get him firing again. I would certainly keep joselu could be useful for tricky away games when we need someone to hold it up and relieve some pressure.
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Post by TheRealTimShady on Jul 29, 2017 19:24:13 GMT
Can see the advantage of playing joselu as he is more of a deep lying forward and gets more involved in the build up than our other options. This would mean the likes of shaq and bojan could get in behind him and contribute with more goals. However he has never really scored that many goals wherever he has played. I think we should stick with Saido as he is our best option to get us the most goals if we can get him firing again. I would certainly keep joselu could be useful for tricky away games when we need someone to hold it up and relieve some pressure.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 29, 2017 19:34:03 GMT
Butland Zouma Shawcross Cameron Johnson Allen Fletcher Sobhi Shaq Bojan Joselu I think that's how I'd start vs Everton if we don't sign anyone. Mate you don't want your left wing back to be right footed. He's going to struggle to tackle the right winger he's defending against as he goes in using the outside of his foot and he's not going to be able to get past his full back and whip in a cross from the left. Which other right footed left wing backs are you thinking of?
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jul 29, 2017 19:35:50 GMT
Butland Zouma Shawcross Cameron Johnson Allen Fletcher Sobhi Shaq Bojan Joselu I think that's how I'd start vs Everton if we don't sign anyone. Mate you don't want your left wing back to be right footed. He's going to struggle to tackle the right winger he's defending against as he goes in using the outside of his foot and he's not going to be able to get past his full back and whip in a cross from the left. Which other right footed left wing backs are you thinking of? The legendry James Milner, of course.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 29, 2017 19:41:44 GMT
Mate you don't want your left wing back to be right footed. He's going to struggle to tackle the right winger he's defending against as he goes in using the outside of his foot and he's not going to be able to get past his full back and whip in a cross from the left. Which other right footed left wing backs are you thinking of? The legendry James Milner, of course. He's not really played as a wing back there has he? But as a left back. And he said himself he doesn't like playing the position specifically because he's right footed. But we're talking about a seasoned Premiership pro who is known for his utility capabilities who into his 30's has helped Klopp out by playing there, not a complete rookie just out of his teens. If Hughes wants to play 3-5-2 he should stop fookin about and bring in a couple of bona fide wing backs.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jul 29, 2017 19:43:28 GMT
The legendry James Milner, of course. He's not really played as a wing back there has he? But as a left back. And he said himself he doesn't like playing the position specifically because he's right footed. But we're talking about a seasoned Premiership pro who is known for his utility capabilities who into his 30's has helped Klopp out by playing there, not a complete rookie just out if his teens. Yeah I know pal just joking Ramadan is an attacking player, end of.
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Post by Fredrikstad Norway on Jul 29, 2017 19:53:43 GMT
Can see the advantage of playing joselu as he is more of a deep lying forward and gets more involved in the build up than our other options. This would mean the likes of shaq and bojan could get in behind him and contribute with more goals. However he has never really scored that many goals wherever he has played. I think we should stick with Saido as he is our best option to get us the most goals if we can get him firing again. I would certainly keep joselu could be useful for tricky away games when we need someone to hold it up and relieve some pressure. Since 2012/13 Joselu have scored or assist every 150-200 min. Stoke cannot expect to get a more effective striker in PL. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/joselu/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/81999
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Post by StokeTudoGuy on Jul 29, 2017 20:00:51 GMT
Berahino or Diouf / Joselu or Crouch
Could be good pairings with NGoy on the bench regardless of who is starting. I could also see Diouf pairing well with Berahino due to his physicality.
I dont think our strike options are as dead set terrible as many people seem to think.
I however would also be interested to see Bojan played as a false 9 along side Berahino rather than a more traditional "big man". To see how it works out.
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