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Post by lordb on Jul 29, 2017 17:16:49 GMT
It's been pointed out before but all Joselu's best games have been away.
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Post by kustokie on Jul 29, 2017 17:18:50 GMT
Butland Zouma Shawcross Cameron Johnson Allen Fletcher Sobhi Shaq Bojan Joselu I think that's how I'd start vs Everton if we don't sign anyone. Worth a shot. I'd prefer Diouf to Johnson.
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Post by Block 22 on Jul 29, 2017 17:18:54 GMT
Why do people need to slate Berahino to praise Joselu. Berahino played well, he's trying overly hard to impress, there's pressure on his shoulders. He will score many goals for stoke when the confidence comes back. Joselu was also very good. I like them both. It would have been interesting to see Berahino in the same side as Bojan, he was the key in today's turn around. How can a striker who never looks like scoring play so well. Lively for a few minutes today then nothing ? Dont forget when Berahino was on the pitch we were playing with an entirely different dynamic. Ramadan was ineffective - Diouf came on and got in behind which resulted in an assist (this didn't happen for the rest of the game). Bojan came on and started to thread passes behind the defence, centrally there was no one capable of that until he came on. Fair play, Joselu scored 2 and won us the game. I'm happy for him, I hope we see more of him. But it's not really fair to slate Berahino when the central players behind him whilst he was on the pitch didn't have an ounce of ingenuity or creativity between them.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jul 29, 2017 17:20:17 GMT
I would say MBD would hold his own for a season at right wing-back. What we would need to do is sign someone who could play on the left urgently if that's the route we are going. Credit to Joselu though, little bit of a forgotten man and has given us something to think about! Jack Zouma Ryan Muniesa MBD Cameron Fletcher Allen **new** Joselu Saido No Shaq? Great about how could I forget Shaq! Maybe Saido has to go
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Post by torquaypotter on Jul 29, 2017 17:22:46 GMT
Are we talking about a player, Who last season, half the people on this board were willing to drive him to his next club.Slated and should never be in the team!
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Post by Block 22 on Jul 29, 2017 17:23:57 GMT
How can a striker who never looks like scoring play so well. Lively for a few minutes today then nothing ? Bojan did well but having a bloke as a target up front was the difference as well as Diouf offering pace Interesting that you think that having a target up front was what made the difference. One goal was a threaded through pass from Bojan - which is what Berahino thrives on, that's his playing style to a tee. The other goal was a tap in after Diouf had got behind the defence. We saw Berahino doing this week-in week-out when he was settled and confident at West Brom. So how much impact did Joselu 'the target' really make?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 29, 2017 17:24:20 GMT
It's funny how a player can do poorly in a friendly and be completely written off, yet do well in a friendly and "it's only a friendly".
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Post by slother on Jul 29, 2017 17:27:43 GMT
Butland Zouma Shawcross Cameron Johnson Allen Fletcher Sobhi Shaq Bojan Joselu I think that's how I'd start vs Everton if we don't sign anyone. I hate this three at the back idea that people keep floating. I don't understand the point of it or why it's supposed to be good. It's because of the athleticism of the modern player. They're fit enough to be 5-4-1 under attack, 2-3-5 on the offensive and everywhere else in between.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Jul 29, 2017 17:28:14 GMT
Bojan did well but having a bloke as a target up front was the difference as well as Diouf offering pace Interesting that you think that having a target up front was what made the difference. One goal was a threaded through pass from Bojan - which is what Berahino thrives on, that's his playing style to a tee. The other goal was a tap in after Diouf had got behind the defence. We saw Berahino doing this week-in week-out when he was settled and confident at West Brom. So how much impact did Joselu 'the target' really make? I thought he gave the team shape and was available for the others to play off him but that's just my view
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 29, 2017 17:28:25 GMT
Bojan did well but having a bloke as a target up front was the difference as well as Diouf offering pace Interesting that you think that having a target up front was what made the difference. One goal was a threaded through pass from Bojan - which is what Berahino thrives on, that's his playing style to a tee. The other goal was a tap in after Diouf had got behind the defence. We saw Berahino doing this week-in week-out when he was settled and confident at West Brom. So how much impact did Joselu 'the target' really make? What Berahino has thrived on is having a big lad next to him to draw defenders away and create some space for him.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Jul 29, 2017 17:29:13 GMT
How can a striker who never looks like scoring play so well. Lively for a few minutes today then nothing ? Dont forget when Berahino was on the pitch we were playing with an entirely different dynamic. Ramadan was ineffective - Diouf came on and got in behind which resulted in an assist (this didn't happen for the rest of the game). Bojan came on and started to thread passes behind the defence, centrally there was no one capable of that until he came on. Fair play, Joselu scored 2 and won us the game. I'm happy for him, I hope we see more of him. But it's not really fair to slate Berahino when the central players behind him whilst he was on the pitch didn't have an ounce of ingenuity or creativity between them. But he never looks like scoring whoever plays does he ?
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Post by Block 22 on Jul 29, 2017 17:32:31 GMT
Interesting that you think that having a target up front was what made the difference. One goal was a threaded through pass from Bojan - which is what Berahino thrives on, that's his playing style to a tee. The other goal was a tap in after Diouf had got behind the defence. We saw Berahino doing this week-in week-out when he was settled and confident at West Brom. So how much impact did Joselu 'the target' really make? What Berahino has thrived on is having a big lad next to him to draw defenders away and create some space for him. I think you get the same effect having anyone creative centrally in the final third. Bojan is the master at drawing players to him and playing those threaded through balls when he is on song. Berahino needs someone like that behind him.
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Post by expectedtoulouse on Jul 29, 2017 17:34:05 GMT
The guy has been shat on by Hughes. He's clearly the most complete striker we've got and when he's actually put on the pitch, he scores. We'd be stupid to let him go. The difference with him is that he makes runs. People criticise him for drifting out wide but he goes looking for the ball to try and affect the game. He got a few assists doing this the other season too. Berahino just doesn't move very well at all, which is why he's so ineffective as a lone striker. He's constantly marked so gives us no options. He doesn't bend his runs, come short or try and lose his marker at all. Happy to be proven wrong but he's another dud I'm afraid.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jul 29, 2017 17:35:28 GMT
I love the overreaction when we win or lose, it's legendry.
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Post by stokie1954 on Jul 29, 2017 17:36:51 GMT
How's aboot both up top? I'd like to see it attempted at least. Whether it'd work I dunno I'd like to see that too. But Hughes does seem to like it. That said, he has expressed a desire to play three at the back, which would allow for two up front. The problem is we don't have two decent wing backs. My thoughts exactly. Bera struggles to play the lone striker role. Never been a fan of Joselu but credit where it's due. Could certainly be an option, but as you say we need a change in both full backs which wouldn't be a bad thing in the long term.
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Post by Block 22 on Jul 29, 2017 17:36:56 GMT
Dont forget when Berahino was on the pitch we were playing with an entirely different dynamic. Ramadan was ineffective - Diouf came on and got in behind which resulted in an assist (this didn't happen for the rest of the game). Bojan came on and started to thread passes behind the defence, centrally there was no one capable of that until he came on. Fair play, Joselu scored 2 and won us the game. I'm happy for him, I hope we see more of him. But it's not really fair to slate Berahino when the central players behind him whilst he was on the pitch didn't have an ounce of ingenuity or creativity between them. But he never looks like scoring whoever plays does he ? I think that stems from the way he's expected to play and the system he's played in not suiting him. Berahino needs passes threaded behind the defence or passes in the channels that he can run onto. I don't think we've ever set up to play that way since Hughes has been in charge. He's not Ricardo Fuller, he's not going to create goals from nothing and he's not going to score goals from aerial deliveries out wide. Give him 1 on 1 chances or knock downs in the box and he has a killer instinct in front of goal.
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Post by TheRealTimShady on Jul 29, 2017 17:37:47 GMT
I hate this three at the back idea that people keep floating. I don't understand the point of it or why it's supposed to be good. It's because of the athleticism of the modern player. They're fit enough to be 5-4-1 under attack, 2-3-5 on the offensive and everywhere else in between. With 3 at the back it allows cover for the full backs if we are hit on the break. Ideal if we still have Johnson because I lost count last season how many times attackers got in behind him
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 29, 2017 17:38:16 GMT
What Berahino has thrived on is having a big lad next to him to draw defenders away and create some space for him. I think you get the same effect having anyone creative centrally in the final third. Bojan is the master at drawing players to him and playing those threaded through balls when he is on song. Berahino needs someone like that behind him. I'm not convinced at all that Berahino is a lone striker but I'd rather him have a number 10 behind him than three grafters 30 yards behind him.
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Post by Block 22 on Jul 29, 2017 17:40:42 GMT
I think you get the same effect having anyone creative centrally in the final third. Bojan is the master at drawing players to him and playing those threaded through balls when he is on song. Berahino needs someone like that behind him. I'm not convinced at all that Berahino is a lone striker but I'd rather him have a number 10 behind him than three grafters 30 yards behind him. I'd be confident in Berahino as the lone striker as long as there's support. After all, a number 10 is efffectively a withdrawn striker. You said what I was trying to say. Berahino had 3 grafters behind him. Joselu had a number 10 who made his first goal and service from out wide for the second.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jul 29, 2017 17:42:25 GMT
I hate this three at the back idea that people keep floating. I don't understand the point of it or why it's supposed to be good. It's because of the athleticism of the modern player. They're fit enough to be 5-4-1 under attack, 2-3-5 on the offensive and everywhere else in between. But only if your wingbacks are good, it hinges entirely, 100% on that. It physically, theoretically, practically, and all other "allys" won't work unless you have good wingbacks. Neither Johnson or Ramadan are wingbacks and neither are good enough there!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 29, 2017 17:43:51 GMT
I'm not convinced at all that Berahino is a lone striker but I'd rather him have a number 10 behind him than three grafters 30 yards behind him. I'd be confident in Berahino as the lone striker as long as there's support. After all, a number 10 is efffectively a withdrawn striker. You said what I was trying to say. Berahino had 3 grafters behind him. Joselu had a number 10 who made his first goal and service from out wide for the second. Joselu is capable (on a good day at least) of winning the ball in the air and holding it up to bring others into the game though. I've not really seen Saido do a lot of that.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 29, 2017 17:44:15 GMT
Butland Zouma Shawcross Cameron Johnson Allen Fletcher Sobhi Shaq Bojan Joselu I think that's how I'd start vs Everton if we don't sign anyone. Worth a shot. I'd prefer Diouf to Johnson. I'd prefer Dwayne Johnson or Boris Johnson to Johnson.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 29, 2017 17:47:39 GMT
He's a good footballer but he went missing way too easily after his good games and that's why he was dropped.
He needs to get stronger and with that I think the consistency would come.
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Post by Block 22 on Jul 29, 2017 17:50:40 GMT
I'd be confident in Berahino as the lone striker as long as there's support. After all, a number 10 is efffectively a withdrawn striker. You said what I was trying to say. Berahino had 3 grafters behind him. Joselu had a number 10 who made his first goal and service from out wide for the second. Joselu is capable (on a good day at least) of winning the ball in the air and holding it up to bring others into the game though. I've not really seen Saido do a lot of that. I think he's very effective at holding the ball up and bringing others into the game - IF the ball is played to him on the floor. Joselu is far superior aerially but I would argue he's nowhere near as instinctive. I know the stats don't support that right now.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 29, 2017 17:50:43 GMT
Hughes' praise post-match can be filed under 'lukewarm' so perhaps it's a non-starter.
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Post by superheroantonius on Jul 29, 2017 17:50:47 GMT
How can a striker who never looks like scoring play so well. Lively for a few minutes today then nothing ? Dont forget when Berahino was on the pitch we were playing with an entirely different dynamic. Ramadan was ineffective - Diouf came on and got in behind which resulted in an assist (this didn't happen for the rest of the game). Bojan came on and started to thread passes behind the defence, centrally there was no one capable of that until he came on. Fair play, Joselu scored 2 and won us the game. I'm happy for him, I hope we see more of him. But it's not really fair to slate Berahino when the central players behind him whilst he was on the pitch didn't have an ounce of ingenuity or creativity between them. He's scored something like one goal in his last 40 premier league matches and for a stoke he's never scored in the prem. You can't get paid millions to play up front for a premier league side, never score and expect it to go without comment.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 29, 2017 17:51:20 GMT
Joselu is capable (on a good day at least) of winning the ball in the air and holding it up to bring others into the game though. I've not really seen Saido do a lot of that. I think he's very effective at holding the ball up and bringing others into the game - IF the ball is played to him on the floor. Joselu is far superior aerially but I would argue he's nowhere near as instinctive. I know the stats don't support that right now. I think a lone striker has to be at least decent in the air though.
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Post by smiler_andy on Jul 29, 2017 17:53:39 GMT
Bojan did well but having a bloke as a target up front was the difference as well as Diouf offering pace Interesting that you think that having a target up front was what made the difference. One goal was a threaded through pass from Bojan - which is what Berahino thrives on, that's his playing style to a tee. The other goal was a tap in after Diouf had got behind the defence. We saw Berahino doing this week-in week-out when he was settled and confident at West Brom. So how much impact did Joselu 'the target' really make? I agree Bojan was the key and I would like to see him with Berahino to see how it would work as I would expect the striker to have a lot more chances. A number of times today Berahino dropped off the defender to create space on goal and was caught waiting for a through ball which never came. Ramadan was off the pace and I can understand why Hughes past comments yesterday. Johnson though playing better than he has been would not be my starting full back or wing back if I had the choice. Happy with performance and looking forward to the season
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Post by Uncle cheese on Jul 29, 2017 17:54:27 GMT
What's your opinion on berahino? I'm not saying Joselu is the answer but surely he's a better option. He has actually scored goals for us without that much game time He certainly hasn't been given the opportunity that others have
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Post by Uncle cheese on Jul 29, 2017 17:56:31 GMT
It's funny how a player can do poorly in a friendly and be completely written off, yet do well in a friendly and "it's only a friendly". I'm not sure that this is what people are saying with Joselu though, he has never been given the opportunity others have
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