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Post by numpty40 on Jul 15, 2017 20:20:15 GMT
for the no.10 role? A game of two halves, Joe first half Bojan second: I know it was only a friendly and I'm a big Bojan fan but I thought Bojan linked the play far better. He always wanted the ball and tried to make things happen. Joe ran around a lot but seemed a bit lost. Allen alongside Fletcher in a deeper role with Bojan on the shoulder of Saido for this season please  |
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jul 15, 2017 20:23:28 GMT
for the no.10 role? A game of two halves, Joe first half Bojan second: I know it was only a friendly and I'm a big Bojan fan but I thought Bojan linked the play far better. He always wanted the ball and tried to make things happen. Joe ran around a lot but seemed a bit lost. Allen alongside Fletcher in a deeper role with Bojan on the shoulder of Saido for this season please Allen is a worker, I'm assuming Hughes sees him as an essential player if Imbula is in the team.. and Bojan for that matter. Can't see Allen getting dropped for anybody. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 20:23:35 GMT
Allen shouldn't be a 10. He can be part of a midfield 3 but he can't be the connection between midfield and forward.
You could have a Fletcher Allen Bojan midfield if Fletcher and Allen are further back than Bojan.
Hell if a transfer doesn't materialise you could probably go Fletcher Allen Imbula away from home, too.
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Post by bombers1987 on Jul 15, 2017 20:36:55 GMT
Allen shouldn't be a 10. He can be part of a midfield 3 but he can't be the connection between midfield and forward. You could have a Fletcher Allen Bojan midfield if Fletcher and Allen are further back than Bojan. Hell if a transfer doesn't materialise you could probably go Fletcher Allen Imbula away from home, too. Hot the nail on the head. Although let's hope for another midfielder |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 20:54:12 GMT
I had thought Allen/Fletcher/Boj wouldn't work, but as long as Fletch and Allen remain disciplined, there's no reason that it can't work.
If our defence were more competent and reliable, I don't think we'd worry about the midfield so much.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 21:04:36 GMT
Allen shouldn't be a 10. He can be part of a midfield 3 but he can't be the connection between midfield and forward. You could have a Fletcher Allen Bojan midfield if Fletcher and Allen are further back than Bojan. Hell if a transfer doesn't materialise you could probably go Fletcher Allen Imbula away from home, too. Hot the nail on the head. Although let's hope for another midfielder If Delph came in for Imbula I think the basic premise would still work. |
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Post by numpty40 on Jul 15, 2017 21:04:47 GMT
Allen's the fly in the ointment which is a shame because I do like him and want him to nail a place in the team.
The problem is that he's a Hughes favourite and Hughes is trying to fit him into the team despite the consequences to the balance of the side.
He is probably the most least needed signing in living memory.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 15, 2017 21:32:36 GMT
The midfield was a shambles first half and second half.
There's not much point discussing the second half because there were so many changes.
However re. the first:
It's plain as day that Allen isn't a number 10 but it's actually been plain as day for nearly a season now and it's extremely worrying that Hughes isn't seeing it, he created absolutely nothing going forwards today and looked completely like a fish out of water in the role he was asked to perform.
Although Fletcher looked composed on the ball, he offered very little in terms of protecting his centre backs as the deep lying centre mid.
Imbula looked ace but there's no way we're going to get away with his total lack of ability to perform his defensive duties, in a Premiership game unless we have a beast of defensive centre mid destroyer playing behind him - we currently don't have one.
Bojan is clearly a better option than Allen as a number 10 but he still looks way off being the player of a couple of seasons ago in that role, Shaqiri is the man we should have that specific shirt ear marked for.
But here's the rub ...
If we had Shaqiri (or Bojan) as the number 10 then we'd HAVE TO HAVE a proper DCM (Zouma?) at the club but that then leaves Imbula, Fletcher and Allen all fighting it out for the other spot and if we brought Delph here that would just compound the problem even more.
A midfield three of Zouma, Imbula and Shaqiri would be absolutely devastating in my opinion but there's not a chance in hell of us remotely seeing it ... sadly.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 15, 2017 21:34:17 GMT
Does number 10 mean playmaker?
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 15, 2017 21:35:26 GMT
Does number 10 mean playmaker? Sort of. |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 15, 2017 21:38:22 GMT
The midfield was a shambles first half and second half.
There's not much point discussing the second half because there were so many changes.
However re. the first:
It's plain as day that Allen isn't at number 10 but it's actually been plain as day for nearly a season now and it's extremely worrying that Hughes isn't seeing it, he created absolutely nothing going forwards today and looked completely like a fish out of water in the role he was asked to perform.
Although Fletcher looked composed on the ball, he offered very little in terms of protecting his centre backs as the deep lying centre mid.
Imbula looked ace but there's no way, we're going to get away with his complete lack of defensive duties in a Premiership game unless we have a beast of defensive centre mid destroyer playing behind him - we currently don't have one.
Bojan is clearly a better option than Allen as a number 10 but he still looks way off being the player of a couple of seasons ago in that role, Shaqiri is the man we should have that specific shirt ear marked for.
But here's the rub ...
If we had Shaqiri (or Bojan) as the number 10 then we'd HAVE TO HAVE a proper DCM (Zouma?) at the club but that then leaves Imbula, Fletcher and Allen all fighting it out for the other spot and if we brought Delph here that would just compound the problem even more.
A midfield three of Zouma, Imbula and Shaqiri would be absolutely devastating in my opinion but there's not a chance in hell of us remotely seeing it ... sadly.
Add Ireland and affelay to the list |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 21:38:31 GMT
When did Zouma last play as a defensive midfielder?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 21:41:01 GMT
Allen looked very good 1st half today. Broke up play well, was sharp and crisp. I thought his performances dropped off at the back end of last season but the lad had one hell of a summer and never got a break. A rejuvenated Allen could be brilliant this season
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 15, 2017 21:43:45 GMT
When did Zouma last play as a defensive midfielder?
He was brilliant there against Spurs in the League Cup final but to be fair, it's a pretty hard first XI to break into isn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 21:43:47 GMT
Does number 10 mean playmaker? Pretty much. Attacking midfielder. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 15, 2017 21:46:18 GMT
Allen's ideal position is holding midfielder. Whelan's position. That's where he should be played.
He has the brainpower to play it well and the energy to support the attack. The ability to chip in with a few goals doesn't go amiss either.
And that's that.
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Post by clarkeda on Jul 15, 2017 21:48:05 GMT
Allen looked very good 1st half today. Broke up play well, was sharp and crisp. I thought his performances dropped off at the back end of last season but the lad had one hell of a summer and never got a break. A rejuvenated Allen could be brilliant this season I hope you are trolling. He did the role of a CM in the CAM position. Not what we need. As bojan is the only no10 at the club (bar shaqiri) then it has to be Bojan. Allen fletcher Bojan Against the tougher opponents Fletcher/Allen imbula Bojan Against the weaker teams Fletcher allen imbula Against the tougher opponents away. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 15, 2017 21:53:38 GMT
Allen's ideal position is holding midfielder. Whelan's position. That's where he should be played.
He has the brainpower to play it well and the energy to support the attack. The ability to chip in with a few goals doesn't go amiss either. And that's that.
You don't want that from your holding midfielder Joe.
You want your holding midfielder to sit deep and protect his centre backs, breaking up play and martialling the team, being disciplined and dictating play.
Allen's best position is as the box to box to player where (and you're right) he has 'the energy to support the attack and the ability to chip in with a few goals'.
Problem being .. that's exactly where Imbula and (to an extent) Fletcher plays.
The make up of the team is still very much unbalanced.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 21:59:21 GMT
When did Zouma last play as a defensive midfielder?
He was brilliant there against Spurs in the League Cup final but to be fair, it's a pretty hard first XI to break into isn't it?
It is. I just wondered how often he's played there in his career. I've seen him a lot at centre half (domestically and in France) and the odd occasion at right back (lets not go there...) He's got the tools to play in defensive midfield. He's a good footballer and is mobile (or was before his injury) etc. |
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Jul 15, 2017 22:03:36 GMT
I thought Bojan did ok today and seemed competitive which was nice to see . Thought Shaq did well too so woukd like both competing for that spot with Allen deeper in his Wales role .
Not sure how it will pan out but can't see a right side of Shaq and Johnson being much more than an invitation to the opposition
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 15, 2017 22:11:19 GMT
He was brilliant there against Spurs in the League Cup final but to be fair, it's a pretty hard first XI to break into isn't it?
It is. I just wondered how often he's played there in his career. I've seen him a lot at centre half (domestically and in France) and the odd occasion at right back (lets not go there...) He's got the tools to play in defensive midfield. He's a good footballer and is mobile (or was before his injury) etc.
I remember him marking Fellaini out of the game in that position against Man U, he's young, pacey, athletic and as hard as nails ... exactly what we've been crying out for in order to finally give Imbula the platform he needs to do his stuff without any restraints but if that was to happen, just where would that leave Fletcher, never mind (he's not a number 10 in a month of Sundays) Allen?
Hughes is so frustratingly close at times, whilst actually being miles away really.
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Post by lordb on Jul 15, 2017 22:16:00 GMT
Joe definitely has an eye for goal,as does Delph by the way.
However he functions best further back,as does Delph and does Fletcher.
I know many hanker after a player who just sits and destroys in front of the back four,and for certain games that would be great, however overall I think two hard running players who can play a bit gives a side a far better balance between attack and defence.
Of course two quality fullbacks would really transform the side but hey ho.
As for Bojan,he now has a chance to get back in the groove (boy you've gotta prove...) as playmaker/goalscorer.
Berahino &/or Diouf would benefit hugely from that.
If we can get this right then goals against the sides around us will come easier.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jul 15, 2017 22:19:26 GMT
Midfield balance is still no nearer being settled. In fact Imbula's return to he fold with impressive showings this week (yes, I know they were only freindlies) has put another fly in the ointment.
Allen is not a 10, none save Whelan are defensive midfielders, leaving a profusion of box to boxers of varying shapes, sizes and qualities.
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Post by femark1 on Jul 15, 2017 22:46:11 GMT
It's all well and good going on about this "no.10" role but we don't really play with one. It's the difference between a 4-2-3-1 and a very conservative 4-3-3 (that we seem to want to play). A holding 3 of say Delphi, Allen an Fletcher is great if we give freedom to the front 3, but if we want the wingers and striker to track back it lacks creativity.
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Post by sanmarinostokie on Jul 15, 2017 23:49:15 GMT
Joe definitely has an eye for goal,as does Delph by the way. However he functions best further back,as does Delph and does Fletcher. I know many hanker after a player who just sits and destroys in front of the back four,and for certain games that would be great, however overall I think two hard running players who can play a bit gives a side a far better balance between attack and defence. Of course two quality fullbacks would really transform the side but hey ho. As for Bojan,he now has a chance to get back in the groove (boy you've gotta prove...) as playmaker/goalscorer. Berahino &/or Diouf would benefit hugely from that. If we can get this right then goals against the sides around us will come easier. Delph and Allen have an eye for goal?!? News to me. Delph has scored 12 goals in 200 games over an eleven year career. And Allen has 23 in 325 games. How does that constitute an eye for goal? |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 15, 2017 23:58:32 GMT
Allen looked very good 1st half today. Broke up play well, was sharp and crisp. I thought his performances dropped off at the back end of last season but the lad had one hell of a summer and never got a break. A rejuvenated Allen could be brilliant this season We watched completely different games. |
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SCFC12
Academy Starlet
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Post by SCFC12 on Jul 16, 2017 0:09:22 GMT
Bojan and berahino will never work. Bojan needs a targetman near him as does berahino. Our players are not good enough to play on the floor all the time so we would need a taller guy with power in the attack. Allen never a 10.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 16, 2017 0:39:32 GMT
Bojan and berahino will never work. Bojan needs a targetman near him as does berahino. Our players are not good enough to play on the floor all the time so we would need a taller guy with power in the attack. Allen never a 10. When Bojan is playing well he's the best we've got at playing the ball about, unfortunately I think his injury is holding him back, disagree he'd need a target man, he wouldn't be playing as a striker. |
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jul 16, 2017 0:50:33 GMT
Allen's ideal position is holding midfielder. Whelan's position. That's where he should be played.
He has the brainpower to play it well and the energy to support the attack. The ability to chip in with a few goals doesn't go amiss either. And that's that.
You don't want that from your holding midfielder Joe.
You want your holding midfielder to sit deep and protect his centre backs, breaking up play and martialling the team, being disciplined and dictating play.
Allen's best position is as the box to box to player where (and you're right) he has 'the energy to support the attack and the ability to chip in with a few goals'.
Problem being .. that's exactly where Imbula and (to an extent) Fletcher plays.
The make up of the team is still very much unbalanced.
Nail on head. Allen is a box to box midfielder, NOT a defensive midfielder and NOT a number 10 (although he's a better number 10 than some at the club) Fletcher is a box to box. Imbula is... Well I don't know what the fuck he is actually Affelay is possibly a number 10 depending on who you've got around him otherwise he's a box to box. As Paul said we need a proper monster of a defensive midfielder, maybe Zouma could be that man then it opens up a lot more possibilities. |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jul 16, 2017 0:58:48 GMT
It is. I just wondered how often he's played there in his career. I've seen him a lot at centre half (domestically and in France) and the odd occasion at right back (lets not go there...) He's got the tools to play in defensive midfield. He's a good footballer and is mobile (or was before his injury) etc.
I remember him marking Fellaini out of the game in that position against Man U, he's young, pacey, athletic and as hard as nails ... exactly what we've been crying out for in order to finally give Imbula the platform he needs to do his stuff without any restraints but if that was to happen, just where would that leave Fletcher, never mind (he's not a number 10 in a month of Sundays) Allen?
Hughes is so frustratingly close at times, whilst actually being miles away really.
And you keep accusing Hughes of 'muddled thinking'.  |
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