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Post by lagwafis on Jul 4, 2017 11:30:04 GMT
Am I understanding this wrong or is one of our biggest challenges / glass ceilings the actual wage bill and how much Premier League regulations allow us to grow it per season. If we've got a significantly low commercial income (in comparison to the clubs we're trying to emulate directly above us) and can only grow our wage budget by £7 million a year then even if we did want to spend £100 million we'd be severely hindered in what we could bring in (for example, one £85k a week player would add about £4.5 million extra on the budget on his own) swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/stoke-city-but-im-different-now.html |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jul 4, 2017 11:32:18 GMT
Ambition is absolutely fine. Year on year improvement and winning a cup - bingo! Getting in the top-4 post Leicester winning the league when the top-7 have thrown an absolute fortune at their squads is just a pipe dream..... You've got to have a dream, if you don't have a dream... how you gonna make a dream come true? Ok Captain Sensible. Stop gibbering your happy talk keep talking happy talk. Talk about things you'd like to do, instead. At least I got it 😉 |
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Post by parsonage1955 on Jul 4, 2017 11:50:53 GMT
Priorities (in no particular order)
Entertainment
A good cup run
As high a league position as possible
Wins against he big teams
Retention of our premier league status
Some young players from the academy coming through
I guess the ranking of these will vary in perceived importance the longer we go without them.
Top 4 would be brilliant (as was 5th in '75, but l'm not holding my breath.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 11:57:43 GMT
Everton are not a far bigger club than us , that's just crap. Since promotion its 7w 6d 5l to them hardly much bigger.https://www.11v11.com/teams/everton/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Stoke%20City/
The truth is that £200 million is about right for a budget to take a club like ours or Everton to the "Next Level" with a clear target of European Football. But more than that this budget has to be maintained year on year to just keep pace and that is why I believe Peter Coates has got off the bus. £200 million on players, infrastructure and global club awareness growth. Sounds horrific but in an age where 1 top player is £100 million it is imo realistic.
We had a taste of Champagne with a European excursion and an FA cup Final but it's an expensive night out for a club on basic rate.
They're a far far bigger club in terms of fanbase, far more successful in terms of trophies won, and when they move to their new ground the gap will get bigger..... Ah now you say it "When they move to their new ground" that's the gamble they are taking that we won't. The fans have had to drag the club to a new corner never mind a new ground. They are making a clear statement of intent.
It's a massive gamble for Everton but one probably made on an assumption of a Super League where they want to be involved.
I'm afraid our chairman is always swimming against the tide on money, always trying to hold back the inevitable rise in wages, player costs etc. Well £16.50 a week I got when I stated work that's 2 hrs of minimum wage now. Despite many Tory governments. Time waits for no man. I'm not saying he is wrong to do so but he is certainly in a minority.
The club is hardly going to put it in the Sentinel that we are aiming to just about scrape by in the lower echelons of the premiership are they. In fairness just to be in the premiership is an ambition realised as most never thought we would get there again let alone stay in it.
But there is a clear rise in investment in the prem with many foreign investors buying a slice of the cake. A cake which may yet even out grow Sky Sports and leave them behind. It's for this reason I've said before we need to diversify our ownership, it's too big for one family, too much of a risk.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 12:06:06 GMT
They're a far far bigger club in terms of fanbase, far more successful in terms of trophies won, and when they move to their new ground the gap will get bigger..... Ah now you say it "When they move to their new ground" that's the gamble they are taking that we won't. The fans have had to drag the club to a new corner never mind a new ground. They are making a clear statement of intent.
It's a massive gamble for Everton but one probably made on an assumption of a Super League where they want to be involved.
I'm afraid our chairman is always swimming against the tide on money, always trying to hold back the inevitable rise in wages, player costs etc. Well £16.50 a week I got when I stated work that's 2 hrs of minimum wage now. Despite many Tory governments. Time waits for no man. I'm not saying he is wrong to do so but he is certainly in a minority.
The club is hardly going to put it in the Sentinel that we are aiming to just about scrape by in the lower echelons of the premiership are they. In fairness just to be in the premiership is an ambition realised as most never thought we would get there again let alone stay in it.
But there is a clear rise in investment in the prem with many foreign investors buying a slice of the cake. A cake which may yet even out grow Sky Sports and leave them behind. It's for this reason I've said before we need to diversify our ownership, it's too big for one family, too much of a risk.
Everton are a huge club with a great history. We cannot compete with them on any level over a consistent period. The odd game and odd freak season? Sure. Over a longer period of time? They will leave us for dead. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 12:37:21 GMT
The OP has gone quiet.
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Post by baystokie on Jul 4, 2017 14:26:07 GMT
Priorities (in no particular order) Entertainment A good cup run As high a league position as possible Wins against he big teams Retention of our premier league status Some young players from the academy coming through I guess the ranking of these will vary in perceived importance the longer we go without them. Top 4 would be brilliant (as was 5th in '75, but l'm not holding my breath. Entertainment - not so exciting if it was in the Championship or lower? Good cup run - would you consider it as compensation if relegated from the Prem? High a league position as possible - only if in the Prem? Wins against the big teams - only if in the Prem? Some young players from the academy - can't argue with that whatever the league you are in. Retention of Prem status - the 'blessing' from which most of our hopes flow - not so sure anything will compensate for losing this so Priority 1? |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 4, 2017 17:00:43 GMT
This is the problem with Leicester winning the league. One freak season when the top clubs collectively didn't perform has given rise to every lunatic who follows a mid-table Premier League club seeing no reason why their own club can't do it. It won't happen again in our lifetime Dave. I remember a thread where most were saying it wouldn't happen at all. Think it was the season before Leicester did it. I also remember people saying 4-4-2 was dead. |
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Post by nott1 on Jul 4, 2017 17:09:41 GMT
I'd love to see the FA Cup arrive!
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Post by thevoid on Jul 4, 2017 19:32:26 GMT
Priorities (in no particular order) Entertainment A good cup run As high a league position as possible Wins against he big teams Retention of our premier league status Some young players from the academy coming through I guess the ranking of these will vary in perceived importance the longer we go without them. Top 4 would be brilliant (as was 5th in '75, but l'm not holding my breath. Entertainment - not so exciting if it was in the Championship or lower? Good cup run - would you consider it as compensation if relegated from the Prem? High a league position as possible - only if in the Prem? Wins against the big teams - only if in the Prem? Some young players from the academy - can't argue with that whatever the league you are in. Retention of Prem status - the 'blessing' from which most of our hopes flow - not so sure anything will compensate for losing this so Priority 1? There has to be some memorable moments along the way surely? |
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jul 4, 2017 19:54:05 GMT
Ah now you say it "When they move to their new ground" that's the gamble they are taking that we won't. The fans have had to drag the club to a new corner never mind a new ground. They are making a clear statement of intent.
It's a massive gamble for Everton but one probably made on an assumption of a Super League where they want to be involved.
I'm afraid our chairman is always swimming against the tide on money, always trying to hold back the inevitable rise in wages, player costs etc. Well £16.50 a week I got when I stated work that's 2 hrs of minimum wage now. Despite many Tory governments. Time waits for no man. I'm not saying he is wrong to do so but he is certainly in a minority.
The club is hardly going to put it in the Sentinel that we are aiming to just about scrape by in the lower echelons of the premiership are they. In fairness just to be in the premiership is an ambition realised as most never thought we would get there again let alone stay in it.
But there is a clear rise in investment in the prem with many foreign investors buying a slice of the cake. A cake which may yet even out grow Sky Sports and leave them behind. It's for this reason I've said before we need to diversify our ownership, it's too big for one family, too much of a risk.
Everton are a huge club with a great history. We cannot compete with them on any level over a consistent period. The odd game and odd freak season? Sure. Over a longer period of time? They will leave us for dead. I don't agree with this view. Everton are not viewed as a big club amongst the younger lot. They've achieved little since the early 80's. I suspect you are a similar age to me, when we used to see gloryhunting pricks at school wearing everton tops, a few years after Everton had been winning trophies. These days, they play in a rickety old stadium in probably the worst atmosphere in the premier league, perhaps second only to Liverpool. 30000 fans sitting on their hands talking about anything but the footy for many years now. My mate is a season ticket holder in the gladys street and has been for twenty years. A lot of people have fallen by the wayside because of apathy. However, they are about to get back to being seen as a big glamorous club, because they are spending big money on players and a new ground. Stoke is not a little club. We have a lot of things quite unique about our club and I really want us to create some memories, excite the fans. If we could win a trophy one day that puts this club up a level. I really want us to show ambition and strive for that, but I think the money being pissed down the toilet by the likes of Everton is a disgrace and is ruining the transfer market for any club that wants to do astute business. I think Everton have made some awful signings. I think pickford and the dutch midfielder will fail |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 4, 2017 19:59:36 GMT
Everton are a huge club with a great history. We cannot compete with them on any level over a consistent period. The odd game and odd freak season? Sure. Over a longer period of time? They will leave us for dead. I don't agree with this view. Everton are not viewed as a big club amongst the younger lot. They've achieved little since the early 80's. I suspect you are a similar age to me, when we used to see gloryhunting pricks at school wearing everton tops, a few years after Everton had been winning trophies. These days, they play in a rickety old stadium in probably the worst atmosphere in the premier league, perhaps second only to Liverpool. 30000 fans sitting on their hands talking about anything but the footy for many years now. My mate is a season ticket holder in the gladys street and has been for twenty years. A lot of people have fallen by the wayside because of apathy. However, they are about to get back to being seen as a big glamorous club, because they are spending big money on players and a new ground. Stoke is not a little club. We have a lot of things quite unique about our club and I really want us to create some memories, excite the fans. If we could win a trophy one day that puts this club up a level. I really want us to show ambition and strive for that, but I think the money being pissed down the toilet by the likes of Everton is a disgrace and is ruining the transfer market for any club that wants to do astute business. I think Everton have made some awful signings. I think pickford and the dutch midfielder will fail Even taking away the 80s thing (and they've always been a big club with big gates - names do count up to a point), they've been a top 6-7 club for quite a few seasons this century. Stature-wise they're streets ahead of us. That's not a lack of ambition, that's not saying we shouldn't aim high, that's just the way it is. |
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 4, 2017 20:07:54 GMT
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jul 4, 2017 20:08:54 GMT
I don't agree with this view. Everton are not viewed as a big club amongst the younger lot. They've achieved little since the early 80's. I suspect you are a similar age to me, when we used to see gloryhunting pricks at school wearing everton tops, a few years after Everton had been winning trophies. These days, they play in a rickety old stadium in probably the worst atmosphere in the premier league, perhaps second only to Liverpool. 30000 fans sitting on their hands talking about anything but the footy for many years now. My mate is a season ticket holder in the gladys street and has been for twenty years. A lot of people have fallen by the wayside because of apathy. However, they are about to get back to being seen as a big glamorous club, because they are spending big money on players and a new ground. Stoke is not a little club. We have a lot of things quite unique about our club and I really want us to create some memories, excite the fans. If we could win a trophy one day that puts this club up a level. I really want us to show ambition and strive for that, but I think the money being pissed down the toilet by the likes of Everton is a disgrace and is ruining the transfer market for any club that wants to do astute business. I think Everton have made some awful signings. I think pickford and the dutch midfielder will fail Even taking away the 80s thing (and they've always been a big club with big gates - names do count up to a point), they've been a top 6-7 club for quite a few seasons this century. Stature-wise they're streets ahead of us. That's not a lack of ambition, that's not saying we shouldn't aim high, that's just the way it is. That might be what you think, but I really don't think so and I disagree with you. They had a season where they got to the champs league under moyes and embarrassed themselves. I would agree with you if they had won a couple of trophies and done well in europe but they haven't. They have been a mid table club, sometimes lower mid table sometimes upper and you are just expressing your opinion. My opinion is stoke are not far smaller or far less appealing than Everton. When you and others say these things you present it as fact but it isn't, it is your opinion. It's all about money these days, which translates as ambition. My own opinion in fact is that talk of big and small clubs is a lazy analysis of the state of the game and doesn't make sense on any level. If you said to me that Everton are a far more attractive proposition right now because of the publicised investment they are making in players, and their perceived ambition, then I'd agree but when people start talking about bigger clubs etc then to me that smacks of a typical stoke small time mentality and a defeatist attitude. I live out the area. I live in scotland. They are all glory hunters who choose a glamour team in england as their second team. Never seen an everton gloryhunter since I've been up here. In that spell a couple of years ago when bojan and shaqiri were tearing up man city and man utd lots of people were taking notice. A couple of seasons of that type of football is how you become viewed as a club that top players want to join |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 4, 2017 20:31:55 GMT
Even taking away the 80s thing (and they've always been a big club with big gates - names do count up to a point), they've been a top 6-7 club for quite a few seasons this century. Stature-wise they're streets ahead of us. That's not a lack of ambition, that's not saying we shouldn't aim high, that's just the way it is. That might be what you think, but I really don't think so and I disagree with you. They had a season where they got to the champs league under moyes and embarrassed themselves. I would agree with you if they had won a couple of trophies and done well in europe but they haven't. They have been a mid table club, sometimes lower mid table sometimes upper and you are just expressing your opinion. My opinion is stoke are not far smaller or far less appealing than Everton. When you and others say these things you present it as fact but it isn't, it is your opinion. It's all about money these days, which translates as ambition. My own opinion in fact is that talk of big and small clubs is a lazy analysis of the state of the game and doesn't make sense on any level. If you said to me that Everton are a far more attractive proposition right now because of the publicised investment they are making in players, and their perceived ambition, then I'd agree but when people start talking about bigger clubs etc then to me that smacks of a typical stoke small time mentality and a defeatist attitude. I live out the area. I live in scotland. They are all glory hunters who choose a glamour team in england as their second team. Never seen an everton gloryhunter since I've been up here. In that spell a couple of years ago when bojan and shaqiri were tearing up man city and man utd lots of people were taking notice. A couple of seasons of that type of football is how you become viewed as a club that top players want to join They have pretty much always been a more attractive option than us. My opinion is based on the fact that they get bigger gates, have won more and generally finish higher than us. All of that counts. It's not just about money if we're talking about players' motivation. Players want to win things or put themselves in a position to play at as high a level as they can. You are misrepresenting their league finishes this century. To suggest all they've done is have a season where they got into the Champions League qualifiers, and then dismiss that because they blew that chance, is completely unrepresentative. |
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Post by hoofmagic on Jul 4, 2017 20:45:03 GMT
luv you huddy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2017 2:02:54 GMT
People never disagreed with you about that. It is fairly obvious that we lack ambition to break the mould. Just all the shit about Jon Walters that people disagree with. I said pretty much exactly the same as what Alan has said on different threads during the season and people were laughing saying I was talking shit. "Clearly you've never played football in your life mate if you think like that" and here we have Alan Hudson saying the exact same thing. And you're both talking like you're pissarsed. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 5, 2017 2:19:55 GMT
As much as everyone moans and drones on about money in football they all drank the kool aid.
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Post by sportsman on Jul 5, 2017 6:34:12 GMT
What a load of shit. Going into a season, every manager is backed or they would have got rid of him during the summer. Can't think of one manager in the premier league who is going into the new season with his chairman thinking he's got 3 games. Who is this tool? |
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Post by thevoid on Jul 5, 2017 7:31:46 GMT
Everton are a big club and always have been.
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Post by superheroantonius on Jul 5, 2017 18:03:44 GMT
It won't happen again in our lifetime Dave. I remember a thread where most were saying it wouldn't happen at all. Think it was the season before Leicester did it. I also remember people saying 4-4-2 was dead. It is possible to get a small town team into the top 4. Brian clough did it with Derby and forest, bobby robson did it with ipswich town And claudio ranieri did it with Leicester. That's three people in about 40 years and two of those are considered to be managerial geniuses by pretty much everybody in the game. I think it's something that is do able but very difficult to pull off. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 5, 2017 18:06:35 GMT
I remember a thread where most were saying it wouldn't happen at all. Think it was the season before Leicester did it. I also remember people saying 4-4-2 was dead. It is possible to get a small town team into the top 4. Brian clough did it with Derby and forest, bobby robson did it with ipswich town And claudio ranieri did it with Leicester. That's three people in about 40 years and two of those are considered to be managerial geniuses by pretty much everybody in the game. I think it's something that is do able but very difficult to pull off. Another way of saying that is that it's happened precisely once, in extraordinary circumstances, in 38 years. |
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Post by LDE76 on Jul 5, 2017 18:13:03 GMT
Is this the Alan Hudson who, in 1992, thought that the England team should have been built around West Brom's Darren Bradley?
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Post by stantheman on Jul 5, 2017 20:23:02 GMT
Back on the whisky is he? Top 4 😆 'Back on' he never left!!!! It's vodka btw...... with a splash of orange. I saw him interviewed and he definitely said cranberry 😊 |
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 5, 2017 20:40:36 GMT
'Back on' he never left!!!! It's vodka btw...... with a splash of orange. I saw him interviewed and he definitely said cranberry 😊 Was he on his period? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2017 21:15:25 GMT
Everton are a big club and always have been. Any Stoke fan who believes we are as big as Everton and as attractive a proposition to players needs sectioning. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 5, 2017 23:08:14 GMT
Is this the Alan Hudson who, in 1992, thought that the England team should have been built around West Brom's Darren Bradley? How was he to know he'd be hit by a tram? |
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 5, 2017 23:39:14 GMT
Everton are a big club and always have been. Any Stoke fan who believes we are as big as Everton and as attractive a proposition to players needs sectioning. Shaqiri chose us over Everton. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2017 0:01:11 GMT
Any Stoke fan who believes we are as big as Everton and as attractive a proposition to players needs sectioning. Shaqiri chose us over Everton. Is that fact? |
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 6, 2017 0:11:36 GMT
Shaqiri chose us over Everton. Is that fact? They were in for him at the same time we were. He said he had a few offers and thought Stoke was the best move with the advice from his brothers and Mark Hughes. |
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