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Post by songthrush01 on Jun 27, 2017 15:16:03 GMT
On only employing British managers? Lets face it, if Mark Hughes has a very poor start to the season again, his time could be up,if it is, there really isn't any decent British managers who are available. So going for a foreign manager could be a better option. great thread,i think i am right here is they are normally catholic as well but not sure about hughes or kamara religion wise thou.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 27, 2017 16:09:46 GMT
They get a crack when they get their team promoted to it? Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Are you arguing Neal Ardley or Phil Parkinson should get a Premier League job? No all i'm saying is that there are young/youngish British managers in the lower leagues who are doing very good jobs at their clubs and will maybe be get over looked by the premier/top championship clubs in favour of often unknown foreign managers, and we might never know if they are good enough or not. Unknown by who though? Not by the clubs who appointed them. Managers who do a good job in the Championship get either a bigger job in the championship or get promoted and make themselves premier league managers. Managers who do a good job in the Premier League tend to get a crack at bigger Prem clubs. That applies to British managers too.
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Post by djduncanjames on Jun 27, 2017 16:17:21 GMT
I read somewhere Fergie was good at tactics. THink he's British too
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Post by heworksardtho on Jun 27, 2017 16:25:36 GMT
He new brexit was coming and would all be sent home
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 27, 2017 16:27:35 GMT
I read somewhere Fergie was good at tactics. THink he's British too Don't think it was his strongest suit. He was a motivator more than anything.
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Post by thevoid on Jun 27, 2017 16:45:31 GMT
He dunna trust them foreigners I thought he loves them open boarders?.....and of course the cheap labour it brings Nothing to do with his gaming interests in Gib of course...
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jun 27, 2017 16:56:47 GMT
Johnny Foreigner... Do YOU trust 'em? Just don't get a foreign manager in called Johnny.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jun 27, 2017 16:59:49 GMT
No all i'm saying is that there are young/youngish British managers in the lower leagues who are doing very good jobs at their clubs and will maybe be get over looked by the premier/top championship clubs in favour of often unknown foreign managers, and we might never know if they are good enough or not. Unknown by who though? Not by the clubs who appointed them. Managers who do a good job in the Championship get either a bigger job in the championship or get promoted and make themselves premier league managers. Managers who do a good job in the Premier League tend to get a crack at bigger Prem clubs. That applies to British managers too. I'm not sure there is too much evidence of this. Chris Hughton dis a fantastic job at Newcastle and was fired. Gary Monk took Swansea to 8th and was fired. Alan Pardew got Newcastle to 5th and was replaced.
Sean Dyche has worked miracles at Burnley, but what kind of bigger job will he get? A richer mid table club? I don't see anyone from Southampton upwards employing him.
Even one of the few recent successes, Paul Clement, got the job off the back of his time working abroad at top clubs with Ancelotti rather than his success with Derby, where he was, err, fired.
Rich clubs don't try to recruit English or even British coaches. The fashion is that a European coach is somehow better. The best thing that could happen for British coaches is for Pellegrini, de Boer et al to fail next season.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 27, 2017 17:11:00 GMT
Unknown by who though? Not by the clubs who appointed them. Managers who do a good job in the Championship get either a bigger job in the championship or get promoted and make themselves premier league managers. Managers who do a good job in the Premier League tend to get a crack at bigger Prem clubs. That applies to British managers too. I'm not sure there is too much evidence of this. Chris Hughton dis a fantastic job at Newcastle and was fired. Gary Monk took Swansea to 8th and was fired. Alan Pardew got Newcastle to 5th and was replaced.
Sean Dyche has worked miracles at Burnley, but what kind of bigger job will he get? A richer mid table club? I don't see anyone from Southampton upwards employing him.
Even one of the few recent successes, Paul Clement, got the job off the back of his time working abroad at top clubs with Ancelotti rather than his success with Derby, where he was, err, fired.
Rich clubs don't try to recruit English or even British coaches. The fashion is that a European coach is somehow better. The best thing that could happen for British coaches is for Pellegrini, de Boer et al to fail next season.
All of the top clubs bar Chelsea and Arsenal have employed a British coach in the last decade. For every British manager who fails and is sacked, there's a foreign manager who fails and gets sacked. Hughton was unlucky but he was replaced with a British coach? Said British coach, Pardew did indeed take Newcastle to 5th. He was also taking them backwards and dreadfully unpopular with his own fans when he upped and left of his own accord. Monk is a decent (if odious) manager but Swansea were struggling when he was sacked and there weren't many Swans fans at the time who thought it was the wrong call. Dyche will get a chance higher up the table if he keeps working wonders at Burnley. I don't see him at a top club as much for his style of play as anything.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jun 27, 2017 17:32:26 GMT
Regardless of the reasons why, I can't help feeling Dyche's best chance is the national coach when we go out of another tournament*. He may adopt that style to get the best out of his squad at Burnley - we don't know what he's capable of. Do you believe he'll get a top 7 job?
(*I actually like Gareth Southgate. An intelligent, thoughtful manager - never given a job at domestic level. The media will no doubt scream if we don't get past the quarter finals, our actual level, at the next tournament.)
You're not going to try and convince me that Claude Puel, Bob Bradley, Francesco Guidolin or Walter Mazzarri were better than some of those British coaches we discussed? What about the media friendly but hopeless Roberto Martinez?
There's clearly a belief that foreign is somehow better.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 27, 2017 17:41:00 GMT
Regardless of the reasons why, I can't help feeling Dyche's best chance is the national coach when we go out of another tournament*. He may adopt that style to get the best out of his squad at Burnley - we don't know what he's capable of. Do you believe he'll get a top 7 job? (*I actually like Gareth Southgate. An intelligent, thoughtful manager - never given a job at domestic level. The media will no doubt scream if we don't get past the quarter finals, our actual level, at the next tournament.) You're not going to try and convince me that Claude Puel, Bob Bradley, Francesco Guidolin or Walter Mazzarri were better than some of those British coaches we discussed? What about the media friendly but hopeless Roberto Martinez? There's clearly a belief that foreign is somehow better. Well Puel finished 8th, which you were just lauding Monk for? Guidolin did ok I thought. Bradley and Mazzari were mistakes but then so were Tim Sherwood and Mike Phelan. We can play this game all day. Southgate was given the Boro job and relegated them. I like him as a bloke and wish him all the best but why should that earn him a top level job, exactly? Foreign managers get the jobs because they perform better. In the Prem and in the lower divisions they take more points per game than their British counterparts. They win things. Why should a top 7 club give Dyche a job? If he wins something with Burnley or does extraordinarily well, rather than being just another 40-points hoofball merchant, I'm sure they'll look at him.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jun 27, 2017 17:50:59 GMT
You don't see many foreign clubs employing British managers/Coaches.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 27, 2017 18:03:13 GMT
You don't see many foreign clubs employing British managers/Coaches. Do they apply for jobs abroad?
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jun 27, 2017 18:04:53 GMT
Regardless of the reasons why, I can't help feeling Dyche's best chance is the national coach when we go out of another tournament*. He may adopt that style to get the best out of his squad at Burnley - we don't know what he's capable of. Do you believe he'll get a top 7 job? (*I actually like Gareth Southgate. An intelligent, thoughtful manager - never given a job at domestic level. The media will no doubt scream if we don't get past the quarter finals, our actual level, at the next tournament.) You're not going to try and convince me that Claude Puel, Bob Bradley, Francesco Guidolin or Walter Mazzarri were better than some of those British coaches we discussed? What about the media friendly but hopeless Roberto Martinez? There's clearly a belief that foreign is somehow better. Well Puel finished 8th, which you were just lauding Monk for? Guidolin did ok I thought. Bradley and Mazzari were mistakes but then so were Tim Sherwood and Mike Phelan. We can play this game all day. Southgate was given the Boro job and relegated them. I like him as a bloke and wish him all the best but why should that earn him a top level job, exactly? Foreign managers get the jobs because they perform better. In the Prem and in the lower divisions they take more points per game than their British counterparts. They win things. Why should a top 7 club give Dyche a job? If he wins something with Burnley or does extraordinarily well, rather than being just another 40-points hoofball merchant, I'm sure they'll look at him. You and I both know that Puel took Southampton backwards.
You say "Foreign managers get the jobs because they perform better". I suggest that is unproven.
No expensive glitzy manager has done better than Sir Alex at Manchester United. At the moment, Koeman hasn't done as well as Moyes at Everton. Mourinho and Guardiola massively under achieved with the resources at their disposal last season.
Southgate relegated a poor Boro side. Benitez relegated Newcastle. Silva was relegated with Hull and walks into another Prem job. As you say, we could play that game all day.
Palace and Southampton have both just recruited European managers with no Premier League experience. How can they be judged to have "performed better"?
There is no way on this planet that successful British managers like Dyche, Pulis, Hughes, Allardyce, to say nothing of Hughton or Monk will get a job at a top 7 club.
Basically the last guy to get the gig was Rodgers at Liverpool and he nearly won the league.
So why the reluctance? I'm pleased that Stoke City have had British managers. How can our coaches ever improve without the opportunity of working with better players in different tournaments?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 27, 2017 18:13:49 GMT
Well Puel finished 8th, which you were just lauding Monk for? Guidolin did ok I thought. Bradley and Mazzari were mistakes but then so were Tim Sherwood and Mike Phelan. We can play this game all day. Southgate was given the Boro job and relegated them. I like him as a bloke and wish him all the best but why should that earn him a top level job, exactly? Foreign managers get the jobs because they perform better. In the Prem and in the lower divisions they take more points per game than their British counterparts. They win things. Why should a top 7 club give Dyche a job? If he wins something with Burnley or does extraordinarily well, rather than being just another 40-points hoofball merchant, I'm sure they'll look at him. You and I both know that Puel took Southampton backwards.
You say "Foreign managers get the jobs because they perform better". I suggest that is unproven.
No expensive glitzy manager has done better than Sir Alex at Manchester United. At the moment, Koeman hasn't done as well as Moyes at Everton. Mourinho and Guardiola massively under achieved with the resources at their disposal last season.
Southgate relegated a poor Boro side. Benitez relegated Newcastle. Silva was relegated with Hull and walks into another Prem job. As you say, we could play that game all day.
Palace and Southampton have both just recruited European managers with no Premier League experience. How can they be judged to have "performed better"?
There is no way on this planet that successful British managers like Dyche, Pulis, Hughes, Allardyce, to say nothing of Hughton or Monk will get a job at a top 7 club.
Basically the last guy to get the gig was Rodgers at Liverpool and he nearly won the league.
So why the reluctance? I'm pleased that Stoke City have had British managers. How can our coaches ever improve without the opportunity of working with better players in different tournaments?
Monk took Swansea backwards. Yet you laud one and dismiss the other. The stats suggest it is proven www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/apr/02/overseas-manager-14-point-difference-premier-league-seasonManchester United replaced Sir Alex Ferguson with a British manager. Harsh to say Benitez and Silva relegated their clubs when both were introduced when the damage had been done and improved on what they'd inherited. Southgate took over from a manager who'd got them to a European final, had more time than either of those two, and took them down. Not the same thing at all. Hughes got the Man City job. Allardyce got the England and Newcastle jobs. Why should Pulis, Dyche, Hughton or Monk get a top 7 job? What have they done to earn one? As I said, in the last decade both Manchester clubs, both Merseyside clubs, and Spurs have had a British manager. They do get the chances if they perform.
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Post by 3putts on Jun 27, 2017 18:21:40 GMT
oh ffs we have a manager why dont you try supporting him for a change? and its no use qouting the top six have foreign managers, look at the obscene money the top6 have spent.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 27, 2017 18:30:59 GMT
oh ffs we have a manager why dont you try supporting him for a change? and its no use qouting the top six have foreign managers, look at the obscene money the top6 have spent. How many of the top 6 in the Championship were British?
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jun 27, 2017 18:35:23 GMT
You and I both know that Puel took Southampton backwards.
You say "Foreign managers get the jobs because they perform better". I suggest that is unproven.
No expensive glitzy manager has done better than Sir Alex at Manchester United. At the moment, Koeman hasn't done as well as Moyes at Everton. Mourinho and Guardiola massively under achieved with the resources at their disposal last season.
Southgate relegated a poor Boro side. Benitez relegated Newcastle. Silva was relegated with Hull and walks into another Prem job. As you say, we could play that game all day.
Palace and Southampton have both just recruited European managers with no Premier League experience. How can they be judged to have "performed better"?
There is no way on this planet that successful British managers like Dyche, Pulis, Hughes, Allardyce, to say nothing of Hughton or Monk will get a job at a top 7 club.
Basically the last guy to get the gig was Rodgers at Liverpool and he nearly won the league.
So why the reluctance? I'm pleased that Stoke City have had British managers. How can our coaches ever improve without the opportunity of working with better players in different tournaments?
Monk took Swansea backwards. Yet you laud one and dismiss the other. The stats suggest it is proven www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/apr/02/overseas-manager-14-point-difference-premier-league-seasonManchester United replaced Sir Alex Ferguson with a British manager. Harsh to say Benitez and Silva relegated their clubs when both were introduced when the damage had been done and improved on what they'd inherited. Southgate took over from a manager who'd got them to a European final, had more time than either of those two, and took them down. Not the same thing at all. Hughes got the Man City job. Allardyce got the England and Newcastle jobs. Why should Pulis, Dyche, Hughton or Monk get a top 7 job? What have they done to earn one? As I said, in the last decade both Manchester clubs, both Merseyside clubs, and Spurs have had a British manager. They do get the chances if they perform. My argument is that there is no good reason why a foreign coach is better. As we have agreed, there are successes and failures across the board.
With regard to Monk, you would have to agree he did a good job at Swansea, then hit a bad patch, before doing another good job at Leeds. Chris Hughton did really well in the Championship with Newcastle and Brighton. Even Neil Warnock worked a miracle with Cardiff last season.
So why have Palace and Southampton appointed foreign coaches with no Premier league experience, unless there is some unquantifiable belief that they are better than British coaches? A mystery reason you appear to endorse.
It's a strange one to me.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 27, 2017 18:47:00 GMT
Monk took Swansea backwards. Yet you laud one and dismiss the other. The stats suggest it is proven www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/apr/02/overseas-manager-14-point-difference-premier-league-seasonManchester United replaced Sir Alex Ferguson with a British manager. Harsh to say Benitez and Silva relegated their clubs when both were introduced when the damage had been done and improved on what they'd inherited. Southgate took over from a manager who'd got them to a European final, had more time than either of those two, and took them down. Not the same thing at all. Hughes got the Man City job. Allardyce got the England and Newcastle jobs. Why should Pulis, Dyche, Hughton or Monk get a top 7 job? What have they done to earn one? As I said, in the last decade both Manchester clubs, both Merseyside clubs, and Spurs have had a British manager. They do get the chances if they perform. My argument is that there is no good reason why a foreign coach is better. As we have agreed, there are successes and failures across the board.
With regard to Monk, you would have to agree he did a good job at Swansea, then hit a bad patch, before doing another good job at Leeds. Chris Hughton did really well in the Championship with Newcastle and Brighton. Even Neil Warnock worked a miracle with Cardiff last season.
So why have Palace and Southampton appointed foreign coaches with no Premier league experience, unless there is some unquantifiable belief that they are better than British coaches? A mystery reason you appear to endorse.
It's a strange one to me.
Hang on, it is quantifiable if you looked at that link. I think Monk is a decent manager and I'm not convinced by de Boer. I think Pellegrino is potentially a really good appointment for Soton. I notice you missed out Hughton's stint with Norwich, any particular reason? You haven't answered my question? Why should the managers you listed be given a top 7 job? What in their careers has earned them that right?
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Post by alster on Jun 27, 2017 20:11:20 GMT
Well Puel finished 8th, which you were just lauding Monk for? Guidolin did ok I thought. Bradley and Mazzari were mistakes but then so were Tim Sherwood and Mike Phelan. We can play this game all day. Southgate was given the Boro job and relegated them. I like him as a bloke and wish him all the best but why should that earn him a top level job, exactly? Foreign managers get the jobs because they perform better. In the Prem and in the lower divisions they take more points per game than their British counterparts. They win things. Why should a top 7 club give Dyche a job? If he wins something with Burnley or does extraordinarily well, rather than being just another 40-points hoofball merchant, I'm sure they'll look at him. You and I both know that Puel took Southampton backwards.
You say "Foreign managers get the jobs because they perform better". I suggest that is unproven.
No expensive glitzy manager has done better than Sir Alex at Manchester United. At the moment, Koeman hasn't done as well as Moyes at Everton. Mourinho and Guardiola massively under achieved with the resources at their disposal last season.
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Post by lordb on Jun 27, 2017 20:41:59 GMT
His main criteria is Premier League experience Why how many managers with Premier League experience has he appointed? Little and Hughes to answer your question. I meant his main criteria now is one with Premier League experience. I'm very confident he would prefer British too.
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Post by alster on Jun 27, 2017 20:55:51 GMT
Why how many managers with Premier League experience has he appointed? Little and Hughes to answer your question. I meant his main criteria now is one with Premier League experience. I'm very confident he would prefer British too. Two poor criteria one is irrelevant, the other guarantees employing other clubs cast offs very unambitious.
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Post by lordb on Jun 27, 2017 22:41:32 GMT
Little and Hughes to answer your question. I meant his main criteria now is one with Premier League experience. I'm very confident he would prefer British too. Two poor criteria one is irrelevant, the other guarantees employing other clubs cast offs very unambitious. Not saying it isn't,just saying that is how Coates see's it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 22:49:42 GMT
When did Peter Coates say he would insist on only employing a British manager? Do you have the quote? Since his return 100 per cent of his appointments have been Welsh! Sure, you can bamboozle us with statistical jargon like '2 is a massively insufficient sample size' but the truth is clear to see and people should be protesting about this.
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Post by robinplumpton on Jun 27, 2017 23:38:16 GMT
Don't care where they come from. Met Lou once was overwhelmed, met TP when he got us up. Never met MlH, don't care he is ours will support him no matter what, until the next bloke. Let's be fair have anyone one of them truly, had it in their hearts since waddo?
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Post by Cast no shadow on Jun 27, 2017 23:54:09 GMT
British jobs for British people
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Post by kustokie on Jun 28, 2017 2:33:20 GMT
On only employing British managers? Lets face it, if Mark Hughes has a very poor start to the season again, his time could be up,if it is, there really isn't any decent British managers who are available. So going for a foreign manager could be a better option. Getting any points at all from the first six games is going to be a real challenge. However, the real key for me is whether or not they look fit and ready to play for the opening game of the season. Six pre-season games in the same location, only a couple of hours flying time from the UK, does appear to be a better approach than travelling to Florida in the hottest month of the year to play a couple of friendlies did not, in retrospect, turn out to be a very clever idea. Even though I did enjoy it personally.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 3:15:45 GMT
On only employing British managers? Lets face it, if Mark Hughes has a very poor start to the season again, his time could be up,if it is, there really isn't any decent British managers who are available. So going for a foreign manager could be a better option. great thread,i think i am right here is they are normally catholic as well but not sure about hughes or kamara religion wise thou. Coates only employs left handers. Fact.
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Post by rawli on Jun 28, 2017 5:11:21 GMT
A Spanish waiter once made a pass at his wife.
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Post by thevoid on Jun 28, 2017 6:57:07 GMT
Because it's his football club? At the risk of going all Corbyn, the club belongs to the fans.
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