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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 15, 2019 22:26:18 GMT
I think it's the 5th, not sure. But apparently Boris could ignore it/ if he loses it.....or delay doing anything about it other than agreeing an election .... for November 1st or afterwards All will probably depend if mps can take control of business again or not. If Boris goes in a hole hiding from democracy again though. It will haunt him for all time. I do t think bercow will allow it I think it is true to say at this moment anything can happen. Whatever does could actually be unprecedented. Chaos in parliament.
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Post by serpico on Aug 15, 2019 22:31:11 GMT
The removal of things like collective bargaining from nations wishing to join the EU were once one of the reasons the left opposed the EU! Now they champion the EU as the guardian of workers rights. Greece had to get rid of their entire collective bargaining structure as part because of the bail out, as did Italy, Spain and others when they joined the EU. The UKs workers rights are actually superior to those offered by the EU. This is the huge blindspot shared by a lot of remain fanatics. The EU's behaviour to Greece made the IMF's treatment of Argentina look tame. The EU is not a friend of the people. You only need to look at the people it appoints to top jobs to understand that. It really does beg the question of why so many who claim to be on left support our membership of the EU, is it just basically all driven by a hatred of the Tories ? Not all lefties are pro EU, mind. The EU attacks wages and collective bargaining www.tuaeu.co.uk/the-eu-attacks-wages-and-collective
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 15, 2019 22:31:37 GMT
I still don't get how some of the people who made No Deal a real possibility get so arsey about being on the verge of No Deal happening.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 15, 2019 22:33:51 GMT
All will probably depend if mps can take control of business again or not. If Boris goes in a hole hiding from democracy again though. It will haunt him for all time. I do t think bercow will allow it I think it is true to say at this moment anything can happen. Whatever does could actually be unprecedented. Chaos in parliament. So many unprecedented events since 2016,aren't there? If Brexit gets overturned watch it all go back to normal.
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 15, 2019 22:45:05 GMT
This is the huge blindspot shared by a lot of remain fanatics. The EU's behaviour to Greece made the IMF's treatment of Argentina look tame. The EU is not a friend of the people. You only need to look at the people it appoints to top jobs to understand that. It really does beg the question of why so many who claim to be on left support our membership of the EU, is it just basically all driven by a hatred of the Tories ? Not all lefties are pro EU, mind. The EU attacks wages and collective bargaining www.tuaeu.co.uk/the-eu-attacks-wages-and-collectiveThe philosophical dividing line was labour or conservative. In Britain right now it's leave or remain. And just looking at who was in which camp was an eye opener. Loads of real hard leftists voted to leave because, in short, the EU is a corporate entity. The campaign wasn't fought along party political lines.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 0:08:07 GMT
For me Wollaston is the best current example of hypocrisy amongst our Politicians. There is absolutely no way that she can honestly justify her stance. ( She was my mother in law's doctor... she thought that she was a very good doctor) / Absolute weaselry of the highest order. She'll fit right in with that snake ummuna and the rest of the clowns.
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Post by Timmypotter on Aug 16, 2019 5:42:41 GMT
This is the huge blindspot shared by a lot of remain fanatics. The EU's behaviour to Greece made the IMF's treatment of Argentina look tame. The EU is not a friend of the people. You only need to look at the people it appoints to top jobs to understand that. I think folk would agree that the EU has its problems & maybe they don’t like all of the people in the top jobs. Then they look at the people in our government & realise ours are worse... We elect them. If UK politicians are shit it's our fault. We have a lot less control over the ones who sit in Brussels. That is the problem.
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Post by Timmypotter on Aug 16, 2019 6:01:21 GMT
This is the huge blindspot shared by a lot of remain fanatics. The EU's behaviour to Greece made the IMF's treatment of Argentina look tame. The EU is not a friend of the people. You only need to look at the people it appoints to top jobs to understand that. It really does beg the question of why so many who claim to be on left support our membership of the EU, is it just basically all driven by a hatred of the Tories ? Not all lefties are pro EU, mind. The EU attacks wages and collective bargaining www.tuaeu.co.uk/the-eu-attacks-wages-and-collectiveI think this is true in a lot of cases. They think the devil they don't know is better than the one they do.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 16, 2019 6:13:56 GMT
I believe this last couple of days just goes to show how wank at everything the Jezza is, Cummings is 4 or 5 steps ahead of him. I mean leaving aside the last few weeks of screaming Boris has no mandate he now wants to be PM with no mandate and no right. Corbyn is being led up the garden path and will not get the backing, even if he did he would then have to fight a general election having not only blocked a deal but no deal too, goodbye to the Midlands votes following his loss of Scotland and Wales too. I think you've misread it fyd When push comes to shove do the liberals want to be a party that facilitated a no deal and austerity? A couple of Tory MPs have already said they could do it on the terms outlined? Same goes for old pissy knickers Soubry. It's high risk but also quite astute. I don’t see this as an astute move by Corbyn. More something he has had his hand forced on. His fence sitting policy on Brexit has left him isolated. The key thing here, as far as he is concerned, isn’t Brexit but winning the next election which is something that will definitely happen before the year is out. The problem for him is if that election is fought with Brexit not settled, the election will be fought on Brexit which is likely very bad news for him as the Lib Dem’s will hoover up seats in the south and either the Brexit Part or the Tories wining seats in the Labour Brexit heartlands up north (probably the former in an election pact with the Tories). There is some precedent for this type of constitutional based election up here in Scotland which saw the Tories returns from obscurity to become the main opposition party in Scotland by promoting themselves as the unionist party opposed to the nationalist SNP and Labour collapsing to near enough non-entity status. Worth remembering Scotland was a Labour fiefdom for generations; their fall in favour is astonishing. If Brexit does happen, I have no doubt a GE will follow which will probably be less damaging to Labour but will still be devastating because while they may well retain many of their seats up north, they face the problem of a metropolitan backlash the Lib Dem’s will benefit from. It’s possible they will come third behind a Tory majority and a resurgent Lib Dem party.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 16, 2019 6:16:16 GMT
It really does beg the question of why so many who claim to be on left support our membership of the EU, is it just basically all driven by a hatred of the Tories ? Not all lefties are pro EU, mind. The EU attacks wages and collective bargaining www.tuaeu.co.uk/the-eu-attacks-wages-and-collectiveI think this is true in a lot of cases. They think the devil they don't know is better than the one they do. It’s driven by a hatred of the British people who they don’t believe will vote the way they want them to vote. If they had confidence in their ability to win an election they wouldn’t be so worried about what the Tories would or wouldn’t do, because the Tories wouldn’t be in power.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 6:41:15 GMT
This is the huge blindspot shared by a lot of remain fanatics. The EU's behaviour to Greece made the IMF's treatment of Argentina look tame. The EU is not a friend of the people. You only need to look at the people it appoints to top jobs to understand that. I think folk would agree that the EU has its problems & maybe they don’t like all of the people in the top jobs. Then they look at the people in our government & realise ours are worse... But removable
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 16, 2019 6:44:27 GMT
I think folk would agree that the EU has its problems & maybe they don’t like all of the people in the top jobs. Then they look at the people in our government & realise ours are worse... But removable The EU ones are removable...
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Post by countofmontecristo on Aug 16, 2019 6:47:05 GMT
I think it's the 5th, not sure. But apparently Boris could ignore it/ if he loses it.....or delay doing anything about it other than agreeing an election .... for November 1st or afterwards All will probably depend if mps can take control of business again or not. If Boris goes in a hole hiding from democracy again though. It will haunt him for all time. I do t think bercow will allow it Boris has Rees-Mogg to counter Bercow. It could get very tasty.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 16, 2019 7:11:32 GMT
I think you've misread it fyd When push comes to shove do the liberals want to be a party that facilitated a no deal and austerity? A couple of Tory MPs have already said they could do it on the terms outlined? Same goes for old pissy knickers Soubry. It's high risk but also quite astute. I don’t see this as an astute move by Corbyn. More something he has had his hand forced on. His fence sitting policy on Brexit has left him isolated. The key thing here, as far as he is concerned, isn’t Brexit but winning the next election which is something that will definitely happen before the year is out. The problem for him is if that election is fought with Brexit not settled, the election will be fought on Brexit which is likely very bad news for him as the Lib Dem’s will hoover up seats in the south and either the Brexit Part or the Tories wining seats in the Labour Brexit heartlands up north (probably the former in an election pact with the Tories). There is some precedent for this type of constitutional based election up here in Scotland which saw the Tories returns from obscurity to become the main opposition party in Scotland by promoting themselves as the unionist party opposed to the nationalist SNP and Labour collapsing to near enough non-entity status. Worth remembering Scotland was a Labour fiefdom for generations; their fall in favour is astonishing. If Brexit does happen, I have no doubt a GE will follow which will probably be less damaging to Labour but will still be devastating because while they may well retain many of their seats up north, they face the problem of a metropolitan backlash the Lib Dem’s will benefit from. It’s possible they will come third behind a Tory majority and a resurgent Lib Dem party. I think the shrewdness lies in its isolation of the Lib Dems and dissenting Tories know its the only realistic way to stop a no deal. It certainly has far more credence than dopey Swinson's notion of some sort of unity Government with either a Tory with the blood of austerity on their hands or some 'moderate' Labour figure with the blood of Iraq on their hands. That's a complete non-starter and the likes of Grieve are cute enough to know that. Ultimately it will be down to whether Grieve and his ilk can eat a shit sandwich for a couple of months or do they prefer no deal?
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Post by Davef on Aug 16, 2019 7:22:39 GMT
I still don't get how some of the people who made No Deal a real possibility get so arsey about being on the verge of No Deal happening. Because they are only interested in no Brexit at all. They played a game of chicken and lost.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 16, 2019 7:23:30 GMT
I don’t see this as an astute move by Corbyn. More something he has had his hand forced on. His fence sitting policy on Brexit has left him isolated. The key thing here, as far as he is concerned, isn’t Brexit but winning the next election which is something that will definitely happen before the year is out. The problem for him is if that election is fought with Brexit not settled, the election will be fought on Brexit which is likely very bad news for him as the Lib Dem’s will hoover up seats in the south and either the Brexit Part or the Tories wining seats in the Labour Brexit heartlands up north (probably the former in an election pact with the Tories). There is some precedent for this type of constitutional based election up here in Scotland which saw the Tories returns from obscurity to become the main opposition party in Scotland by promoting themselves as the unionist party opposed to the nationalist SNP and Labour collapsing to near enough non-entity status. Worth remembering Scotland was a Labour fiefdom for generations; their fall in favour is astonishing. If Brexit does happen, I have no doubt a GE will follow which will probably be less damaging to Labour but will still be devastating because while they may well retain many of their seats up north, they face the problem of a metropolitan backlash the Lib Dem’s will benefit from. It’s possible they will come third behind a Tory majority and a resurgent Lib Dem party. I think the shrewdness lies in its isolation of the Lib Dems and dissenting Tories know its the only realistic way to stop a no deal. It certainly has far more credence than dopey Swinson's notion of some sort of unity Government with either a Tory with the blood of austerity on their hands or some 'moderate' Labour figure with the blood of Iraq on their hands. That's a complete non-starter and the likes of Grieve are cute enough to know that. Ultimately it will be down to whether Grieve and his ilk can eat a shit sandwich for a couple of months or do they prefer no deal? But... Corbyn needs those Lib Dem’s as well as those MPs who left labour as well as quite a few Tories along with the SNP who, it seems, he has pulled onside by supporting indyref2 (something that will cause Labour huge problems up here). He ain’t got the numbers to do what he needs to do. (Neither of course does a Swinson). Also, as I said, Corbyn isn’t interested in Brexit but winning a general election. And as I’ve argued above, his prevarication on Brexit (over and above his general ineptitude) makes a Labour victory highly unlikely.
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Post by Northy on Aug 16, 2019 8:22:50 GMT
That doesn't answer my question.Apparently it was made perfectly clear. Is this clear enough for yourself and all those liars who claim that the possibility of 'no deal' wasn't raised/discussed before the referendum? EDIT: Dominic Fucking Grieve!!!! @lilfraise wont like this, didn't he close off discussion on it yesterday saying it was never out there before the referendum
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 16, 2019 8:40:10 GMT
That doesn't answer my question.Apparently it was made perfectly clear. Is this clear enough for yourself and all those liars who claim that the possibility of 'no deal' wasn't raised/discussed before the referendum? EDIT: Dominic Fucking Grieve!!!! What I love about the Essex boys blog, is his obvious glee that some obscure snippets of film from a Parliamentary channel when Hammond was a backbencher talking to an empty house & Grieve on what looked like a kids attempt at a film studies assignment. So in the 3.5years since the vote, that’s all he could come up with. Did Dominic Cummings help him with that... It’s absolutely irrelevant to where we are now.
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Post by serpico on Aug 16, 2019 8:47:15 GMT
I still don't get how some of the people who made No Deal a real possibility get so arsey about being on the verge of No Deal happening. Because they are only interested in no Brexit at all. They played a game of chicken and lost. When May was in power they knew no deal was off the table so they could safely keep rejecting her deals, I think they were hoping if they just kept voting against her WA then eventually the government would call for a 2nd referendum, but obviously that has backfired on them, now we have a Pm seemingly willing to go down the no deal route so they’re panicking. For Corbyn it’s always been about a general election, that’s why he opposed Mays WA, he knew that if May had got brexit through then the chances of a general election were far less likely, but even if he gets a general election his fence sitting on brexit has probably already done him so much damage that he can’t win, lots of remain labour voters are pissed off at him, as are old guard labour brexit voters.
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Post by countofmontecristo on Aug 16, 2019 8:52:58 GMT
Is this clear enough for yourself and all those liars who claim that the possibility of 'no deal' wasn't raised/discussed before the referendum? EDIT: Dominic Fucking Grieve!!!! What I love about the Essex boys blog, is his obvious glee that some obscure snippets of film from a Parliamentary channel when Hammond was a backbencher talking to an empty house & Grieve on what looked like a kids attempt at a film studies assignment. So in the 3.5years since the vote, that’s all he could come up with. Did Dominic Cummings help him with that... It’s absolutely irrelevant to where we are now. ....HAHA!!!what a load of bollocks! It's proof positive that the whole 2nd referendum thing is based on a lie. If you can't accept it from the lips of the Prime Minister, TWO chancellors and the de-facto leader of the Government's fifth column then there's no hope for you - your mind is closed.
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 16, 2019 9:04:37 GMT
What I love about the Essex boys blog, is his obvious glee that some obscure snippets of film from a Parliamentary channel when Hammond was a backbencher talking to an empty house & Grieve on what looked like a kids attempt at a film studies assignment. So in the 3.5years since the vote, that’s all he could come up with. Did Dominic Cummings help him with that... It’s absolutely irrelevant to where we are now. ....HAHA!!!what a load of bollocks! It's proof positive that the whole 2nd referendum thing is based on a lie. If you can't accept it from the lips of the Prime Minister, TWO chancellors and the de-facto leader of the Government's fifth column then there's no hope for you - your mind is closed. My mind is closed!?! You just cut & pasted some $#!t you found on a backwater of the interweb. You wouldn’t even have an opinion if it hadn’t been given to you by others.
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Post by countofmontecristo on Aug 16, 2019 9:23:11 GMT
....HAHA!!!what a load of bollocks! It's proof positive that the whole 2nd referendum thing is based on a lie. If you can't accept it from the lips of the Prime Minister, TWO chancellors and the de-facto leader of the Government's fifth column then there's no hope for you - your mind is closed. My mind is closed!?! You just cut & pasted some $#!t you found on a backwater of the interweb. You wouldn’t even have an opinion if it hadn’t been given to you by others. Well its highly unlikely I'll find these clips on the BBC isn't it?! It doesn't matter where they come from. Nobody can argue that the content isn't genuine. Oh....and I have plenty of my own opinions, thanks. Just because I don't always air them on here in a sad attempt to make myself appear far more educated and well-informed than I actually am (as you constantly, transparently and laughably attempt to do) doesn't mean that I am incapable of forming and defending them.
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 16, 2019 9:55:58 GMT
My mind is closed!?! You just cut & pasted some $#!t you found on a backwater of the interweb. You wouldn’t even have an opinion if it hadn’t been given to you by others. Well its highly unlikely I'll find these clips on the BBC isn't it?! It doesn't matter where they come from. Nobody can argue that the content isn't genuine. Oh....and I have plenty of my own opinions, thanks. Just because I don't always air them on here in a sad attempt to make myself appear far more educated and well-informed than I actually am (as you constantly, transparently and laughably attempt to do) doesn't mean that I am incapable of forming and defending them. My posts are mostly tongue in cheek & laconic. Any characteristic you put on them comes from your own prejudiced closed mind 🎓
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Post by countofmontecristo on Aug 16, 2019 10:08:01 GMT
Well its highly unlikely I'll find these clips on the BBC isn't it?! It doesn't matter where they come from. Nobody can argue that the content isn't genuine. Oh....and I have plenty of my own opinions, thanks. Just because I don't always air them on here in a sad attempt to make myself appear far more educated and well-informed than I actually am (as you constantly, transparently and laughably attempt to do) doesn't mean that I am incapable of forming and defending them. My posts are mostly tongue in cheek & laconic. Any characteristic you put on them comes from your own prejudiced closed mind 🎓 When you produce proof that my opinion is based on a lie and I refuse to consider the possibility that I may be wrong, then yes, call me closed minded.
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Post by Davef on Aug 16, 2019 10:08:07 GMT
Because they are only interested in no Brexit at all. They played a game of chicken and lost. When May was in power they knew no deal was off the table so they could safely keep rejecting her deals, I think they were hoping if they just kept voting against her WA then eventually the government would call for a 2nd referendum, but obviously that has backfired on them, now we have a Pm seemingly willing to go down the no deal route so they’re panicking. For Corbyn it’s always been about a general election, that’s why he opposed Mays WA, he knew that if May had got brexit through then the chances of a general election were far less likely, but even if he gets a general election his fence sitting on brexit has probably already done him so much damage that he can’t win, lots of remain labour voters are pissed off at him, as are old guard labour brexit voters. No deal off the table was all bluster though wasn't it? No deal is, and always has been, the default legal position if a withdrawal agreement couldn't be negotiated or ratified. MPs know that. And if they didn't then it sums them up.
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Post by serpico on Aug 16, 2019 10:20:27 GMT
When May was in power they knew no deal was off the table so they could safely keep rejecting her deals, I think they were hoping if they just kept voting against her WA then eventually the government would call for a 2nd referendum, but obviously that has backfired on them, now we have a Pm seemingly willing to go down the no deal route so they’re panicking. For Corbyn it’s always been about a general election, that’s why he opposed Mays WA, he knew that if May had got brexit through then the chances of a general election were far less likely, but even if he gets a general election his fence sitting on brexit has probably already done him so much damage that he can’t win, lots of remain labour voters are pissed off at him, as are old guard labour brexit voters. No deal off the table was all bluster though wasn't it? No deal is, and always has been, the default legal position if a withdrawal agreement couldn't be negotiated or ratified. MPs know that. And if they didn't then it sums them up. Not if article50 is revoked ?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 16, 2019 10:26:29 GMT
Because they are only interested in no Brexit at all. They played a game of chicken and lost. When May was in power they knew no deal was off the table so they could safely keep rejecting her deals, I think they were hoping if they just kept voting against her WA then eventually the government would call for a 2nd referendum, but obviously that has backfired on them, now we have a Pm seemingly willing to go down the no deal route so they’re panicking. For Corbyn it’s always been about a general election, that’s why he opposed Mays WA, he knew that if May had got brexit through then the chances of a general election were far less likely, but even if he gets a general election his fence sitting on brexit has probably already done him so much damage that he can’t win, lots of remain labour voters are pissed off at him, as are old guard labour brexit voters. I think that you are right Serpico....I do think that the EU and May( Hammond) acting in collusion thought that they were in a win - win situation....if her/ their deal had gone through it would have been Brino and re-entry into the EU would have been easy..... because we had not actually left AND if the WA was rejected what you say is true...a referendum ...in the background of " an agreement is impossible and has been rejected, let's stay. I think that 6 are right about Corbyn McDonnell( McDonnell) as well.
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Post by Davef on Aug 16, 2019 10:33:40 GMT
No deal off the table was all bluster though wasn't it? No deal is, and always has been, the default legal position if a withdrawal agreement couldn't be negotiated or ratified. MPs know that. And if they didn't then it sums them up. Not if article50 is revoked ? True, but we're back to the game of chicken aren't we?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 16, 2019 10:42:28 GMT
www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-tory-rebels-signal-support-jeremy-corbyn-as-interim-pm-over-a-no-deal-a4214501.htmlTo dream the impossible dream To fight the unbeatable foe To bear with unbearable sorrow To run where the brave dare not go To right the unrightable wrong To love pure and chaste from afar To try when your arms are too weary To reach the unreachable star This is my quest, to follow that star No matter how hopeless, no matter how far To fight for the right Without question or pause To be willing to march Into hell for a heavenly cause And I know if I'll only be true To this glorious quest That my heart will lay peaceful and calm When I'm laid to my rest And the world will be better for this That one man scorned and covered with scars Still strove with his last ounce of courage To fight the unbeatable foe To reach the unreachable star
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Post by countofmontecristo on Aug 16, 2019 10:48:03 GMT
www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-tory-rebels-signal-support-jeremy-corbyn-as-interim-pm-over-a-no-deal-a4214501.htmlTo dream the impossible dream To fight the unbeatable foe To bear with unbearable sorrow To run where the brave dare not go To right the unrightable wrong To love pure and chaste from afar To try when your arms are too weary To reach the unreachable star This is my quest, to follow that star No matter how hopeless, no matter how far To fight for the right Without question or pause To be willing to march Into hell for a heavenly cause And I know if I'll only be true To this glorious quest That my heart will lay peaceful and calm When I'm laid to my rest And the world will be better for this That one man scorned and covered with scars Still strove with his last ounce of courage To fight the unbeatable foe To reach the unreachable star That's a fookin brilliant song. Please don't spoil it for me.
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