|
Post by thevoid on Jul 12, 2019 14:01:19 GMT
There is every chance that the EU will grant an extension because it is in their interest to keep us in. Possibly, but that's not a case of them "not letting us just walk away" is it? There is no political will in the UK parliament to leave the EU. So why has Verhofstadt attached himself to the Lib Dems like a bad smell? Hardly the actions of someone who isn't too fussed.
|
|
|
Post by thevoid on Jul 12, 2019 14:07:43 GMT
. There's one thing posting informed arguments and then there's this. Where did you drag that up from? 'Pepelepew 19' The EU will collapse if we leave? Where does this deluded sense of self importance come from. The whole world, or EU in this matter, doesn't revolve around the UK. The EU are quite happy for us to walk away. The problem is the UK politicians can't accept the terms that have been negotiated. We chose to leave, but it seems we can't accept the consequences. The ball is in our governments court, not the EUs. I've no idea who Pepelepew is, the originator of the Tweet maybe? It's irrelevant- are the figures incorrect? It's nothing about 'self importance', it's about them wanting money from the UK to keep rolling in- did you even read it properly or was the urge to take a cheap jibe at this country too great to resist? And, as I asked davef, if the EU aren't bothered what we do, why is Verhofstadt attached to the Lib Dems like a cheap suit? Hardly the actions of someone who isn't bothered.
|
|
|
Post by thevoid on Jul 12, 2019 14:25:49 GMT
No-one really gives a shit about the fishing industry. It just happens to be the industry that has suffered the most under the EU - if the dildo-making industry happened to have restrictions from the EU then we'd have a board full of people complaining that they can't get a British-made Black Mamba 3.0 for love nor money. Crikey, I didn't realise you had to wear sou'westers and sing sea shanties to offer an opinion on it. Thanks for the heads up.
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Jul 12, 2019 14:26:45 GMT
Possibly, but that's not a case of them "not letting us just walk away" is it? There is no political will in the UK parliament to leave the EU. So why has Verhofstadt attached himself to the Lib Dems like a bad smell? Hardly the actions of someone who isn't too fussed. The Lib Dems and Verhofstadt have no power to stop the UK leaving the EU. Verhofstadt is the Farage/Rees Mogg of the European Parliament. All wind and piss.
|
|
|
Post by foster on Jul 12, 2019 14:51:16 GMT
So why has Verhofstadt attached himself to the Lib Dems like a bad smell? Hardly the actions of someone who isn't too fussed. The Lib Dems and Verhofstadt have no power to stop the UK leaving the EU. Verhofstadt is the Farage/Rees Mogg of the European Parliament. All wind and piss. Yes, they probably prefer us to stay, but in the end we voted for it and they're prepared for it. There's no point (not you) blaming the EU now that our politicians can't organise themselves properly to get this done. The EU isn't holding Brexit back, our Politicians are.
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 12, 2019 15:34:07 GMT
The Lib Dems and Verhofstadt have no power to stop the UK leaving the EU. Verhofstadt is the Farage/Rees Mogg of the European Parliament. All wind and piss. Yes, they probably prefer us to stay, but in the end we voted for it and they're prepared for it. There's no point (not you) blaming the EU now that our politicians can't organise themselves properly to get this done. The EU isn't holding Brexit back, our Politicians are. They can organize all right, but only to prevent Brexit. There has been zero will to do it.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Jul 12, 2019 23:10:28 GMT
I still find events generally repeat what has happened in the past. Ted Heath went to the country on a "Who rules Britain? Government or miners union" agenda , and the electorate decided "Well not you!" and there was a huge increase in the Liberal party vote, the biggest since another megalomaniac Lloyd George split the Liberal Party. The Tory vote collapsed, the Labour vote went down, but under our crazy first past the post electoral system, Harold Wilson actually won with the most MPs but no majority. Once the country had settled down over the miners striking, Wilson called a snap election to establish a small majority government. The left wing of the Labour Party took over when Michael Foot was leader and made them un-electable. Kinnock had massive problems with controlling the party with Trotskyist Militant Tendancy out of control. The Brexit Party could split the right and centre vote and let Corbyn into power with our electoral system, just as happened in February 1974. Corbyn clearly now thinks he can woo all the Liberal Democrat Remain voters by becoming a Remainer and sod the blue collar workers who traditional vote labour and want to be out of the EU. As I said above, many of them will keep voting Labour because they don't and will not associate themselves with other parties. Before the referendum, I doubted that a majority would vote to leave with the concerted campaign by the government, bankers, media etc. saying we should stay in and forecasting disaster, even if we just voted to leave, never mind actually leave. Call me an old cynic, but I also said that even if a majority did vote to leave the establishment of the country would find a way of stopping it. Parliament has done a good job of it, and we haven't even gone to the Lords yet! But even if parliament voted to leave, I believe someone like the judiciary would step in and stop it, and say we are subject to EU law and can only leave if they agree, or something like that. Or the civil service would undermine it as they have done in the negotiations with the EU where May's "agreement" still effectively leaves us governed by the EU on all commercial/trading matters and prevents us making trade agreements with others, and that is before we have had 2 years negotiating a trade agreement. I have no doubt that "the powers that be" will find a way to stop Brexit. Someone has done a job on Corbyn and they will do a job on BoJo. I have a dreadful fear that the UK will end up crawling back to the Brussels bureaucrats. The EU have destroyed our traditional industries whilst, for example, Germany, Sweden, Belgium, Netherlands, and Austria continue to have thriving steel industries. They will go on to destroy our other industries like finance, pharmaceuticals, machinery, and aerospace, and we will end up like Spain and Greece on the fringes of Europe with massive unemployment dependant on a tourist industry. Call me alarmist if you like but I have worked closely with Europeans, had French and Dutch bosses and I know they are out to take what they can from this country, hence our massive trade deficit with the EU. fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/The above link demonstrates that our future trading position has to be with the rest of the world where over 90% of future economic growth lies. It will not be easy to change from looking inward to a stagnant Europe to outwards to a growing world market. We still have massive advantages with our own currency, the English language, and the 5th biggest world economy. The EU will take away our currency if we agree to remain and engage in "ever closer union" and Germany will come to totally dominate Europe. Last two paragraphs are fear mongering based on your own opinion and in no way proven to be fact. Unless of course you can see the future. If anything gets given up to the EU then blame the elected politicians at home. I've worked with far more Europeans than you I imagine and not a single one of them is out to get what they can from us. In fact, they couldn't care less about the UK and just want us to stop wasting their time and decide what the fuck we're going to do. Lastly, I don't see why the UK can't lead the line in Europe like Germany and France do. You need allies and standing alone is going to be disaster....imo. Thank you for your response. Part of what I write is my opinion, clearly, but the trade balance with the EU is fact. It is also predicted by the EU that over 90% of future world growth will be outside the EU (Reference: Please read - www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-014997-ASW_EN.html?redirect ) I worked for a French company for 7 years and it was policy only to buy French products for the business. Doing otherwise was not a good career move. There were also blatant cases of where French parts of the business did on thing but other countries plants had to follow different rules by the parent French owners. I was once employed at a works in the UK and we bought a machine from an Irish company. After placing the order we were told the machine would be made in France. We were then told it was going to be delivered late, so we insisted on a hire machine being provided till the one being purchased was delivered. The hired machine arrived from France and had to be modified to comply with UK guarding legislation. Whilst this was being done, the electrical engineer inspected the French machine and condemned it as unusable in the UK as it did not comply with electrical regulations. The machine stood idle till the purchased machine arrived, and the hired machine went back to work in France. I have experience of a German engineer recommending a German piece of machinery,which was an excellent piece of equipment, but my works engineer told him we could not purchase and use it because it was not CE marked. The German engineer just laughed and said that was silly EU rules that only the UK follow. I have worked around the steel industry all my life and witnessed the collaboration in Germany between the steel, coal, and electricity industries. In this country it would be regarded as a cartel operating against the public interest, but they get away with it. I have served on a European industrial committee for many years and seen many cases of European industry being subsidised by back door methods contrary to EU legislation. The appointment of crooked individuals to positions in the EU is symptomatic of much of what I have experienced. It is the pro EU UK citizens that are wasting the EU's time, not the "leave UK citizens". It is the rotten sleaze ridden, corrupt UK politicians that had blocked our leaving the EU. Please don't think I an xenophobic I know some wonderful French, German, and Dutch people. They know they do things contrary to EU regulations and just smile about it.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 19:32:01 GMT
Well there's a surprise, I don't think ! Likely new EU chief open to extending Brexit talks beyond October, letter reveals link
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 15, 2019 20:00:53 GMT
When it's not your money and you don't need to account for it;
|
|
|
Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 16, 2019 7:44:21 GMT
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 16, 2019 8:00:12 GMT
Some people don't see any problem with any of that DC. Many people are still arguing for remain either not knowing what they are arguing for or can't understand that it is possible not to be in a political and economic union and still trade. The EU " says" it's not possible for the very reason that they want control. I am sure that if it was a condition of us remaining many Remainers would readily agree to joining the Euro.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 8:09:56 GMT
Some people don't see any problem with any of that DC. Many people are still arguing for remain either not knowing what they are arguing for or can't understand that it is possible not to be in a political and economic union and still trade. The EU " says" it's not possible for the very reason that they want control. I am sure that if it was a condition of us remaining many Remainers would readily agree to joining the Euro. It's disgraceful and utterly undemocratic. It's a bit of an eye opener having the Brexit Party MEP reports "on the inside" - None of it reported on the Beeb or MSM either ! That last tweet from Lucy Harris sums it up perfectly ! Boris had better carry out his pledge of "out by 31st October - do or die". Can't see it myself but we must have hope.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 16, 2019 8:26:56 GMT
Because the EU is completely remote from the UK in actuality the UK citizen does not have sny conscious or other connection with the institution. For some the argument simply starts and ends" It must be better to be in the EU".....its bigger than us , they are better than us and we can't be like any other free independent country in these global times. Fear and those who are in charge are telling us so. ......Over the past 20 or 30 years the cry from the left had been " blame the bankers". Because of the remoteness, the disconnect, the lack of interest and lack of scrutiny there has been little real criticism of thr EU bankers...... perhaps it's also because we can do very little about them in any case. The EU governance and machine continues irrespective of any criticism and there is no opposition to the project.,.. they're loving it. ........ Lagarde is one of the latest examples, no real scrutiny.... it's enough that she believes in the cause and she is assertive and authoritative ...........,....... 3 quotes, one not recent....... Christine Lagarde, scourge of tax evaders, pays no tax IMF boss who caused international outrage when she suggested that Greeks should pay their taxes earns a tax-free salary amp.theguardian.com/business/2012/may/29/christine-lagarde-pays-no-tax?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true........ Christine Lagarde was a key member of the infamous troika – Greece’s official creditors – who crushed our people’s resistance to perpetual debt bondage. The other key figure alongside the International Monetary Fund’s then managing director was Mario Draghi, president of the European Central Bank, who played a central role in that drama by engineering the closure of Greece’s banks. Now, four years later, Lagarde has been anointed to succeed Draghi at the helm of the ECB. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/15/christine-lagarde-ecb-berlin-eurozone-yanis-varoufakis......... Christine Lagarde convicted: IMF head found guilty of criminal charges over massive government payout But former French finance minister, who faced potentially one year in jail, will not face any punishment www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/christine-lagarde-convicted-imf-head-found-guilty-of-negligence-in-fraud-trial-a7484586.html
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 11:49:40 GMT
Brexit Talks Get More Hostile as EU Considers Sweeteners to Deal link
|
|
|
Post by maxplonk on Jul 16, 2019 13:46:31 GMT
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Jul 16, 2019 14:20:24 GMT
Some people don't see any problem with any of that DC. Many people are still arguing for remain either not knowing what they are arguing for or can't understand that it is possible not to be in a political and economic union and still trade. The EU " says" it's not possible for the very reason that they want control. I am sure that if it was a condition of us remaining many Remainers would readily agree to joining the Euro. It's disgraceful and utterly undemocratic. It's a bit of an eye opener having the Brexit Party MEP reports "on the inside" - None of it reported on the Beeb or MSM either ! That last tweet from Lucy Harris sums it up perfectly ! Boris had better carry out his pledge of "out by 31st October - do or die". Can't see it myself but we must have hope. These sneering arrogant ,unelected ,bastards are more offensive to me than anything Donald trump might say , and I'm not defending him in the least . The way the EU is heading reminds me of the French Revolution. I'm so glad we finally seem to be on the way out .
|
|
|
Post by claytonscrubs on Jul 16, 2019 15:14:30 GMT
Nigel Farage nails it! 👍 .
Andrew Neil nails it! 👍
|
|
|
Post by franklin66 on Jul 16, 2019 15:36:39 GMT
Nigel Farage nails it! 👍 . Andrew Neil nails it! 👍 It's just disgusting and some think Boris is a twat, he's nothing compared to them.
|
|
|
Post by maxplonk on Jul 16, 2019 16:15:22 GMT
Nigel Farage nails it! 👍 . Andrew Neil nails it! 👍 It's just disgusting and some think Boris is a twat, he's nothing compared to them. Nah. Boris IS a twat.
|
|
|
Post by franklin66 on Jul 16, 2019 16:25:28 GMT
It's just disgusting and some think Boris is a twat, he's nothing compared to them. Nah. Boris IS a twat. At least Boris is running in an election of sorts.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 16, 2019 16:28:02 GMT
|
|
|
Post by maxplonk on Jul 16, 2019 16:42:29 GMT
|
|
|
Post by franklin66 on Jul 16, 2019 16:59:35 GMT
Is this how it is now? Who can uncover the most shit wins?
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 16, 2019 17:18:46 GMT
Is this how it is now? Who can uncover the most shit wins? Yep.
|
|
|
Post by franklin66 on Jul 16, 2019 17:22:07 GMT
Is this how it is now? Who can uncover the most shit wins? Yep. It's nuts I don't care about who said what to who there has been a vote get it done. Sarah Champion Labour MP said today she would support no deal because she was playing poker for a good deal and has lost.
|
|
|
Post by maxplonk on Jul 16, 2019 17:23:58 GMT
It's nuts I don't care about who said what to who there has been a vote get it done. Sarah Champion Labour MP said today she would support no deal because she was playing poker for a good deal and has lost. But did she lie?
|
|
|
Post by maxplonk on Jul 16, 2019 17:24:50 GMT
Is this how it is now? Who can uncover the most shit wins? I suppose that depends on whether it sticks or not?
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 16, 2019 17:38:44 GMT
Have I heard right? Has someone in the EU offered an extension to our membership? An offer that was never going to happen? What else were they bluffing about?
|
|
|
Post by franklin66 on Jul 16, 2019 17:50:47 GMT
Have I heard right? Has someone in the EU offered an extension to our membership? An offer that was never going to happen? What else were they bluffing about? Yeah the new fuhrer democraticlly voted in. One issue she does not take over until November lol
|
|
|
Post by maxplonk on Jul 16, 2019 18:03:06 GMT
Have I heard right? Has someone in the EU offered an extension to our membership? An offer that was never going to happen? What else were they bluffing about? Yeah the new fuhrer democraticlly voted in. One issue she does not take over until November lol She scraped in by 9 votes. Forage has already criticised the narrow margin without a hint of irony.
|
|