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Post by crapslinger on May 27, 2019 20:44:35 GMT
Any working class labour voters left would have been disgusted by that fucking disgusting mess thornberry on the bbc last night. Yes I agree , I switched over to sky news ,they had Gina Miller š”š”
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Post by partickpotter on May 27, 2019 21:45:14 GMT
No - I don't think so. The SNP have done nothing to address the problems that caused their defeat last time - specifically on the question of currency and the economy generally. In addition the white paper they produced for the 2014 referendum hasn't, to put it mildly, stood the test of time very well. Plus add to that Salmondgate and the travails of a third term government being unable to blame previous administrations for poor performance in areas like education and health (both of which are devolved powers). On the face of it, their argument seems much weaker now than previously. So their strategy seems to me to be to ratchet up the Westminster grievance agenda as high as it can go. The problem is, that hasn't shown any signs of working. The pro-Indy vote has stuck at 45%. Which, as mentioned above, is what they got in these elections. They now seem to be hoping BoJo that if becomes the new PM, that will be enough to boost the Indy vote. I think that is more hope than expectation though despite their bluster. I suppose the diminishing returns from North Sea oil hasn't helped the Indi cause either . Correct. It was a core part of the Independence referendum white paper. It will need some rework in a new version. And leaves a big hole in the finances that ain't obvious how to fill.
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Post by Absolution on May 27, 2019 22:04:34 GMT
I'll be interested to see what the EU do about the Irish border , they have already said they will have to secure their external borders with some control. This despite their insistence on the backstop in the WA to prevent the U.K. Doing so , euro fudge at its finest The Eu Problem. we should be happy to let it carry on Thatās why we need a free trade agreement. There wonāt be hundreds of thousands of migrants coming in via Dublin Surely they'll land in Ireland then end up staying there because of the higher standard of living, not to mention the craic.
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Post by trickydicky73 on May 28, 2019 6:21:11 GMT
I think the Tories have some other issues as well mate , they have done a lot of damage in middle England with the cuts to public services, bus services , council tax utility bills , property prices, business rates , health service spending, social care funding , schools , libraries, post offices public sector workers haven't seen a pay increase for 10 years , the list is endless and I believe is affecting everyone . This needs to change before another election . We saw last time out how effective labours magic money tree was . Tax cuts aren't going to help At this fragile time they will trust labour less I canāt think of a decent labour politician to put on the national campaign trail Corbyn? Abbott? Thornberry? McDonnell? Slim man? Can you imagine the reception this lot will have up north At least the tories can deliver Brexit with a new leader and say we tried, it took us a while due to Parliament and itās now time to crack on with the other issues. Also, if Labour don't back a reasonable deal(still possible!), they will be seen as the party who stopped Brexit, while pretending to honour the result. Totally agree with you about the Labour front bench. The only Labour MPs that have come across well in this mess have been Flint, Hoey and Nandy. Oh, and John Mann.
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Post by wagsastokie on May 28, 2019 6:38:45 GMT
At this fragile time they will trust labour less I canāt think of a decent labour politician to put on the national campaign trail Corbyn? Abbott? Thornberry? McDonnell? Slim man? Can you imagine the reception this lot will have up north At least the tories can deliver Brexit with a new leader and say we tried, it took us a while due to Parliament and itās now time to crack on with the other issues. Also, if Labour don't back a reasonable deal(still possible!), they will be seen as the party who stopped Brexit, while pretending to honour the result. Totally agree with you about the Labour front bench. The only Labour MPs that have come across well in this mess have been Flint, Hoey and Nandy. Oh, and John Mann. And donāt forget frank field heās been so good they suspended him
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 28, 2019 6:40:36 GMT
What exactly is a certain kind of voter?
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on May 28, 2019 6:44:06 GMT
What exactly is a certain kind of voter? A no deal Brexit supporter I suspect.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 28, 2019 6:46:18 GMT
What exactly is a certain kind of voter? A no deal Brexit supporter I suspect. No need to say it then.. ( voluntarily) naive as usual Rip.
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Post by trickydicky73 on May 28, 2019 6:48:58 GMT
What exactly is a certain kind of voter? Yes, there's a sniffiness about them that is sickening. I don't know many people who can't at least see WHY people voted for them, but Kuensberg looks like her finger has gone through the bog roll when she mentions Farage.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 6:58:14 GMT
What exactly is a certain kind of voter? I thought it was a very disparaging and disrespectful comment tbh.
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Post by trickydicky73 on May 28, 2019 7:03:00 GMT
What exactly is a certain kind of voter? I thought it was a very disparaging and disrespectful comment tbh. Well, the elderly seem to be fair game, lately, so anything goes.....
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Post by trickydicky73 on May 28, 2019 7:08:15 GMT
Take your second referendum and stick it up your arse, McDonnell, you anvil faced twat.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on May 28, 2019 7:10:08 GMT
A no deal Brexit supporter I suspect. No need to say it then.. ( voluntarily) naive as usual Rip. What do you think she meant?
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Post by trickydicky73 on May 28, 2019 7:15:19 GMT
Are Labour now a Remain party, then? Is there any deal to leave that they would support? Now Adonis is spouting Remain again.....Fucking hell he is deluded. What about working class Labour voters?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 28, 2019 7:19:15 GMT
Are Labour now a Remain party, then? Is there any deal to leave that they would support? Now Adonis is spouting Remain again.....Fucking hell he is deluded. What about working class Labour voters? Slowly but surely out of the woodwork they crawl.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 28, 2019 7:20:39 GMT
No need to say it then.. ( voluntarily) naive as usual Rip. What do you think she meant? See Dee and Tricky above.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 28, 2019 7:22:45 GMT
Itās no real surprise that the two main parties have shunted towards the extremities of the issue really.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on May 28, 2019 7:24:18 GMT
What do you think she meant? See Dee and Tricky above. So the elderly? Well the elderly are a certain kind of voter, as are the young, the poor, the rich, the north, the south etc.
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Post by starkiller on May 28, 2019 7:41:57 GMT
What exactly is a certain kind of voter? I thought it was a very disparaging and disrespectful comment tbh. The BBC are experts at dropping in NLP side-swipes. I notice on sky yesterday they had the standings of the parties. The Brexit Party could not be read because they had chosen to put white text against their colours. Just below were The LibDems - bold black text on a yellow background so it looked like they had topped the poll.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 7:47:49 GMT
I thought it was a very disparaging and disrespectful comment tbh. Well, the elderly seem to be fair game, lately, so anything goes..... I don't think it was pointed just at the elderly although admittedly there is a large percentage of "more mature/older" people in the Brexit supporters. Having been to a couple of the rallies, and seen them all on the Brexit Party website, I'd say there is also a percentage (30% ?) of 20's to 50's people in their ranks. I thought the comments were aimed at Brexit Party voters as a whole as being "stupid", "thick", "racist" - in other words, the pre-conceived MSM "stereotype".
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Post by harryburrows on May 28, 2019 7:49:05 GMT
Itās no real surprise that the two main parties have shunted towards the extremities of the issue really. That's really where it should be mono , it's clearly a back or white decision, in or out . The centre ground on Brexit is fudge and confusion
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 7:55:13 GMT
Are Labour now a Remain party, then? Is there any deal to leave that they would support? Now Adonis is spouting Remain again.....Fucking hell he is deluded. What about working class Labour voters? Slowly but surely out of the woodwork they crawl. Is this the same Diane Abbot who's said all along that there shouldn't be a "people's vote" or second referendum as it would be undemocratic ?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 28, 2019 7:57:14 GMT
Itās no real surprise that the two main parties have shunted towards the extremities of the issue really. I do think that they have lost their way a bit on it though Sheikh. For me their messages are totally confusing, different members are saying different things and as we speak they are themselves yet again talking about changing the policy or making it clearer. It is the big issue for both parties but more importantly the country, neither has the courage to take a grip and go for proper BREXIT as voted for. The LibDems and the BREXIT party have done well because they are clear. Personally I have a dislike of the LibDems....but Labour need to be very careful that they don't usurp their place as one of the mainstream parties ( and in normal times I don't like saying that... but I feel that Labour have left their traditional working class behind particularly in the Northern heartlands)
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Post by partickpotter on May 28, 2019 8:14:40 GMT
Itās no real surprise that the two main parties have shunted towards the extremities of the issue really. That's really where it should be mono , it's clearly a back or white decision, in or out . The centre ground on Brexit is fudge and confusion Exactly. The electorate have shown they are in no mood for compromise.
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Post by wagsastokie on May 28, 2019 8:22:08 GMT
Should be interesting if labour go into the Peterborough bi election as a second referendum / remain party
If people think that the shit has hit the fan they havenāt seen nothing yet if the brexit Party win Peterborough
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Post by The Drunken Communist on May 28, 2019 8:35:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 8:44:52 GMT
Should be interesting if labour go into the Peterborough bi election as a second referendum / remain party If people think that the shit has hit the fan they havenāt seen nothing yet if the brexit Party win Peterborough Ahead of the Peterborough by-election (there was a 60.8% Leave vote in the 2016 referendum) the Brexit Party won the EU elections with 38.3% of the vote. Labour was second on 17.2%, with the LibDems on 15.4% in third, and the Tories a distant fourth on 10.9%. In the 2017 general election Labour won in Peterborough for the first time and had a majority of 607 votes. Vote share Labour 48.1 % Cons 46.8 % LibDem 3.3 % Green 1.8 % Should be interesting to see what happens this time.
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Post by 3putts on May 28, 2019 8:52:08 GMT
Hoodwinked is exactly right.
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Post by trickydicky73 on May 28, 2019 9:22:30 GMT
Well, the elderly seem to be fair game, lately, so anything goes..... I don't think it was pointed just at the elderly although admittedly there is a large percentage of "more mature/older" people in the Brexit supporters. Having been to a couple of the rallies, and seen them all on the Brexit Party website, I'd say there is also a percentage (30% ?) of 20's to 50's people in their ranks. I thought the comments were aimed at Brexit Party voters as a whole as being "stupid", "thick", "racist" - in other words, the pre-conceived MSM "stereotype". Oh, I get that, I just meant that they have already attacked people for being old, then they will insinuate the things you highlighted.
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Post by lawrieleslie on May 28, 2019 9:40:21 GMT
Hoodwinked is exactly right. How do you know that leavers were hoodwinked into voting Brexit. Thatās just more made up bollox perpetuated by the Remainers. I have many friends who have wanted out of the EU well before the referendum. My mind was made up after the amended Maastricht/Lisbon Treaty referendum fiasco. Just a reminder of that .......in 2007 some EU countries decided to hold referendums on the Maastricht Treaty replacement aka Treaty of the European Union. Holland and France overwhelmingly voted against it and Ireland held 2 referendums in an attempt to get it "right". U.K. was meant to have a referendum but this was abandoned by Blair. The EU simply renamed the TEU, with a few amendments, called it the Lisbon Treaty and it entered EU Legislation without referendum because they were shit scared that it would be voted down again.
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