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Post by Clayton Wood on Jan 12, 2018 12:42:50 GMT
I wish I could find the site where there was a very good breakdown of the reasons both Remain and Leave voters voted the way they did. There are so many of these things out there it's difficult re-tracing it. If I do I'll attach a link. In essence the Leave vote was concentrated among older, poorer and less well educated voters (I don't say that as a jibe, just the way it was) who voiced immigration as their primary concern and driver behind their voting intention. That doesn't say none of them considered the economy, which is what we're discussing here, or that it doesn't feature in the reasons given. It does, however, come a long way down the list of reasons. Let's just say they didn't prioritise it or see leaving as having much impact worth considering. I'm not his minder! I just wouldn't like to see you go down the crapslinger route to posting, which is basically "you lost shut up"! It's a bit retarded that lol. But don't worry I'm sure neither Essex nor myself will be blocking your replies This for me? If so: I don't think anyone fits a single stereotype whether remain or leave. If you back track through my posts (yeah I know you have better things to do!) I had personal reasons, possibly unique to my situation, why I voted the way I did. Mine ultimately was to gain back control of our law making so I had someone to kick at the ballot box and not some unelected suit in Brussels. The side issue was the economy, which so far, with a weakened pound has been a personal benefit. No survey could shoehorn me into into a group. Dunno why I'm replying to you, I can't see any of your posts...
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 12, 2018 13:00:21 GMT
This is an analysis produced by someone was part of the remain campaign and is Corbyn's economics guru snigger, put my copy of this out for the waste disposal technician Cambridge Econometrics is not a person! It was not part of the renain campaign and is not Corbyn's economic guru snigger. Although I'm not sure what a "guru snigger" is? Leave voters will ignore expert opinion. Of course. I wonder what happens when they see their doctor? I'm not sure what the "renain" campaign is, you are clearly the leader of the inane campaign. An expert opinion on something that has not happened and that there is no history of anything similar to compare with, if you go to the Doctor do you ask him what he thinks will be your health problems in 20 years time.......
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 12, 2018 13:05:40 GMT
I find only ill educated remainers took about leaving the single market, we don't leave the single market at all, we lose tariff free access to the single market unless we can negotiate this as part of the exit deal. This was made perfectly clear by Clegg, Cameron and everyone. So we can be part of the EEA and leave the EU. Ill educated remainers haven't made up the EEA. Leave voters seem to deny its existence. We don't have tarriff free access to the single market now. We are a fully fledged member of the EU which is far more intrinsic. But you have proven my point. You don't have a clue what the leave vote means for our access/membership of the single market. It is still to be worked out and so you don't know what the leave vote was for. Every leave voter on here when trying to get around this question has proved me right in their reply. We don't yet know what the leave vote was for. A complete straw man argument everyone who voted leave knew leaving the EU meant leaving the customs union and ceasing to have tariff free access to the single market, they factored in the fact that there will either be no deal and WTO terms or some sort of free trade deal neither hold much fear for me.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 12, 2018 13:21:36 GMT
I wish I could find the site where there was a very good breakdown of the reasons both Remain and Leave voters voted the way they did. There are so many of these things out there it's difficult re-tracing it. If I do I'll attach a link. In essence the Leave vote was concentrated among older, poorer and less well educated voters (I don't say that as a jibe, just the way it was) who voiced immigration as their primary concern and driver behind their voting intention. That doesn't say none of them considered the economy, which is what we're discussing here, or that it doesn't feature in the reasons given. It does, however, come a long way down the list of reasons. Let's just say they didn't prioritise it or see leaving as having much impact worth considering. I'm not his minder! I just wouldn't like to see you go down the crapslinger route to posting, which is basically "you lost shut up"! It's a bit retarded that lol. But don't worry I'm sure neither Essex nor myself will be blocking your replies This for me? If so: I don't think anyone fits a single stereotype whether remain or leave. If you back track through my posts (yeah I know you have better things to do!) I had personal reasons, possibly unique to my situation, why I voted the way I did. Mine ultimately was to gain back control of our law making so I had someone to kick at the ballot box and not some unelected suit in Brussels. The side issue was the economy, which so far, with a weakened pound has been a personal benefit. No survey could shoehorn me into into a group. Dunno why I'm replying to you, I can't see any of your posts... You're right, of course, these surveys inevitably don't fit everyone, but they do indicate broadly who voted what and the reasons for them. Can't see my posts. I like it!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 12, 2018 13:23:10 GMT
So we can be part of the EEA and leave the EU. Ill educated remainers haven't made up the EEA. Leave voters seem to deny its existence. We don't have tarriff free access to the single market now. We are a fully fledged member of the EU which is far more intrinsic. But you have proven my point. You don't have a clue what the leave vote means for our access/membership of the single market. It is still to be worked out and so you don't know what the leave vote was for. Every leave voter on here when trying to get around this question has proved me right in their reply. We don't yet know what the leave vote was for. A complete straw man argument everyone who voted leave knew leaving the EU meant leaving the customs union and ceasing to have tariff free access to the single market, they factored in the fact that there will either be no deal and WTO terms or some sort of free trade deal neither hold much fear for me. Dan Hannan and Boris Johnson didn't know that, because they said the opposite! Just two leave voters (fairly high profile too!) Who weren't quite as clear as "everyone" else!
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jan 12, 2018 13:28:44 GMT
This for me? If so: I don't think anyone fits a single stereotype whether remain or leave. If you back track through my posts (yeah I know you have better things to do!) I had personal reasons, possibly unique to my situation, why I voted the way I did. Mine ultimately was to gain back control of our law making so I had someone to kick at the ballot box and not some unelected suit in Brussels. The side issue was the economy, which so far, with a weakened pound has been a personal benefit. No survey could shoehorn me into into a group. Dunno why I'm replying to you, I can't see any of your posts... You're right, of course, these surveys inevitably don't fit everyone, but they do indicate broadly who voted what and the reasons for them. Can't see my posts. I like it! As I've put on here before, I'm only speaking for myself. When it came to the vote: Did I vote solely for the benefit of numero uno? You betcha
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 12, 2018 13:32:19 GMT
You're right, of course, these surveys inevitably don't fit everyone, but they do indicate broadly who voted what and the reasons for them. Can't see my posts. I like it! As I've put on here before, I'm only speaking for myself. When it came to the vote: Did I vote solely for the benefit of numero uno? You betcha You won't be surprised to hear that everyman for himself is, in my opinion, not the way to a better society for everyone. It's very much the American way. The individual rules. America and American society don't fill me with glee.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jan 12, 2018 13:39:03 GMT
As I've put on here before, I'm only speaking for myself. When it came to the vote: Did I vote solely for the benefit of numero uno? You betcha You won't be surprised to hear that everyman for himself is, in my opinion, not the way to a better society for everyone. It's very much the American way. The individual rules. America and American society don't fill me with glee. I respect your sentiments, but I reserve the right to disagree. Look at my posting history and you'll see that EU law overrode UK law and decimated my wife's business. Spain opted out of an agreement that local VAT thresholds could apply and that was that. As I said unique but 100% the reason I don't care about the greater EU good now.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 12, 2018 13:51:38 GMT
Shame. I see your position. I don't know the details so I can't really comment.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jan 12, 2018 14:11:14 GMT
Shame. I see your position. I don't know the details so I can't really comment. Thanks. Having had close dealings on a very small scale directly with the EU I can't see how the remaining EU partners will agree on a wide ranging set of measures from Trade to environment and everything else in between. I don't think for 1 minute they will agree even on the terms of a trade agreement even if the other 3 freedoms are ignored. Unless majority verdicts are allowed. So Parliament won't have a deal to vote on in my humble opinion (even with Oggy banging the SM/CU drum!)
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Post by essexstokey on Jan 13, 2018 11:22:50 GMT
Nigel Farage hit with £35,000 fine for 'misspending EU funds' linkYes there are some corrupt politicians in Europe they just happen to be you!
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jan 13, 2018 12:25:34 GMT
Nigel Farage hit with £35,000 fine for 'misspending EU funds' linkYes there are some corrupt politicians in Europe they just happen to be you! And a £73,000 a year pension at 63 to soften the blow. Ever likely it cost £££Billions to get out of this shithole © D Trump 2018.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 13, 2018 13:04:19 GMT
Nigel Farage hit with £35,000 fine for 'misspending EU funds' linkYes there are some corrupt politicians in Europe they just happen to be you! And a £73,000 a year pension at 63 to soften the blow. Ever likely it cost £££Billions to get out of this shithole © D Trump 2018. Don't forget his £73k salary for the last 20 years without actually bothering to turn up for work much. I'd love a job like that.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jan 13, 2018 13:42:56 GMT
And a £73,000 a year pension at 63 to soften the blow. Ever likely it cost £££Billions to get out of this shithole © D Trump 2018. Don't forget his £73k salary for the last 20 years without actually bothering to turn up for work much. I'd love a job like that. No, no. The monthly pre-tax salary for an MEP is 8,484 euros (£7,530), which is the equivalent of an annual gross salary, before tax, of 101,808 euros (£90,235). They also receive thousands more in expenses for staff and travel costs. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42669293Have to pay the best rates to attract and retain the best most qualified and capable people as MEP's. You know, like the banks do safe in the knowledge if they go belly up there is a bottomless pit of tax payers money.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jan 13, 2018 16:44:58 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 14, 2018 7:57:16 GMT
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-bill-latest-amendment-single-market-customs-union-liberal-democrats-snp-greens-a8157611.htmlHold on, all you leave voters KNOW you voted to leave the single market and the customs union when voting to leave the EU. If that was set in stone why on earth don't MPs know that!? Why is there a tabled amendment about it. Don't they know the EEA does doesn't exist and is just remain fear mongering. If the leave vote was so crystal clear on that issue (all remain voters just didn't see it on the ballot paper right?) then what is going on? Oh that's right....leave voters were voting blind as 18 months on and we still have no clarity on what the leave vote was for, other than for a worse economy, more hate crime, a huge bill to deal with the administration, a halt on the majority of domestic governance until brexit is sorted and certainly not £350m a week extra for the nhs!!
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 14, 2018 8:04:14 GMT
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-latest-eu-uk-tax-havens-trade-cayman-british-virgin-jersey-guernsey-anguilla-avoidance-a8156201.htmlI don't believe it! When will the EU stop going after the everyday, hard working millionaire and money launderer and terrorist and start helping the poor and middle majority? Unlike Tory Britain who galantly continue to oppose their millionaire backers from paying tax like the rest of us. The EU are always out to protect those massive companies by restricting their pricing strategy so they cannot undercut small business competitors, stopping them owning an entire market and also by making it harder for them to base themselves in tax havens. I'm glad the poorer tax payers in brexit britain will no doubt be paying all the tax so the rich and massive companies can continue to operate above the law. That's true capitalism!
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jan 14, 2018 8:21:24 GMT
"The European Commission will soon review whether British territories previously left off a Brussels tax haven blacklist should now be added" ----- "Meanwhile EU states including Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Belgium, Portugal and Greece are all countries with a higher than global average exposure to citizens and firms stashing wealth offshore."
Yeah, well done EU.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 14, 2018 8:33:36 GMT
"The European Commission will soon review whether British territories previously left off a Brussels tax haven blacklist should now be added" ----- "Meanwhile EU states including Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Belgium, Portugal and Greece are all countries with a higher than global average exposure to citizens and firms stashing wealth offshore."Yeah, well done EU. That's why they are trying to do something about it. We aren't, in fact we are actively opposing it and no doubt that will continue when we have left
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 14, 2018 8:39:51 GMT
Which would make some degree of sense if it weren't for the regular new members lol How many since 1990? Former Yugoslavia countries queuing up to join, seems attractive enough! So that's roughly half of all European countries a member now, from an original 6. Hmmm, really struggling lol
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 14, 2018 8:51:03 GMT
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5266657/Ukip-leaders-girlfriends-racist-Meghan-Markle-messages.htmlI really couldn't be arsed to start a thread on this so here's the best place for it! I think the most amusing thing about is the absolute wankfest that must have been going on at The Mail! A combination of some views they'd love to air but can't so pretend to be horrified, plus a Royal angle, plus a chance to show a woman in half undressed glamour poses while at the same time upholding the nation's morals. Genuinely hilarious. You gotta love those UKIP nutters, making the monster raving loony party look like the sensible vote
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jan 14, 2018 15:27:56 GMT
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jan 14, 2018 17:31:03 GMT
He's just going to tell all Labour MP's to vote against the EU Withdrawal Bill...
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Post by Northy on Jan 14, 2018 20:24:47 GMT
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-latest-eu-uk-tax-havens-trade-cayman-british-virgin-jersey-guernsey-anguilla-avoidance-a8156201.htmlI don't believe it! When will the EU stop going after the everyday, hard working millionaire and money launderer and terrorist and start helping the poor and middle majority? Unlike Tory Britain who galantly continue to oppose their millionaire backers from paying tax like the rest of us. The EU are always out to protect those massive companies by restricting their pricing strategy so they cannot undercut small business competitors, stopping them owning an entire market and also by making it harder for them to base themselves in tax havens. I'm glad the poorer tax payers in brexit britain will no doubt be paying all the tax so the rich and massive companies can continue to operate above the law. That's true capitalism! why haven't they done it during the last 40 years then, was their own money on them? they start to look at it now as a sort of punishment or something to beat the uk with?
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 14, 2018 20:58:00 GMT
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-bill-latest-amendment-single-market-customs-union-liberal-democrats-snp-greens-a8157611.htmlHold on, all you leave voters KNOW you voted to leave the single market and the customs union when voting to leave the EU. If that was set in stone why on earth don't MPs know that!? Why is there a tabled amendment about it. Don't they know the EEA does doesn't exist and is just remain fear mongering. If the leave vote was so crystal clear on that issue (all remain voters just didn't see it on the ballot paper right?) then what is going on? Oh that's right....leave voters were voting blind as 18 months on and we still have no clarity on what the leave vote was for, other than for a worse economy, more hate crime, a huge bill to deal with the administration, a halt on the majority of domestic governance until brexit is sorted and certainly not £350m a week extra for the nhs!! You are starting to sound deranged now, why are parties that don't want to leave the EU tabling an amendment to try and stop the UK leaving the EU, I just can't work that one out
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 14, 2018 21:01:27 GMT
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-latest-eu-uk-tax-havens-trade-cayman-british-virgin-jersey-guernsey-anguilla-avoidance-a8156201.htmlI don't believe it! When will the EU stop going after the everyday, hard working millionaire and money launderer and terrorist and start helping the poor and middle majority? Unlike Tory Britain who galantly continue to oppose their millionaire backers from paying tax like the rest of us. The EU are always out to protect those massive companies by restricting their pricing strategy so they cannot undercut small business competitors, stopping them owning an entire market and also by making it harder for them to base themselves in tax havens. I'm glad the poorer tax payers in brexit britain will no doubt be paying all the tax so the rich and massive companies can continue to operate above the law. That's true capitalism! why haven't they done it during the last 40 years then, was their own money on them? they start to look at it now as a sort of punishment or something to beat the uk with? Because we have stopped it each time as we have been in the EU and can do that type of thing
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 14, 2018 21:04:26 GMT
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-bill-latest-amendment-single-market-customs-union-liberal-democrats-snp-greens-a8157611.htmlHold on, all you leave voters KNOW you voted to leave the single market and the customs union when voting to leave the EU. If that was set in stone why on earth don't MPs know that!? Why is there a tabled amendment about it. Don't they know the EEA does doesn't exist and is just remain fear mongering. If the leave vote was so crystal clear on that issue (all remain voters just didn't see it on the ballot paper right?) then what is going on? Oh that's right....leave voters were voting blind as 18 months on and we still have no clarity on what the leave vote was for, other than for a worse economy, more hate crime, a huge bill to deal with the administration, a halt on the majority of domestic governance until brexit is sorted and certainly not £350m a week extra for the nhs!! You are starting to sound deranged now, why are parties that don't want to leave the EU tabling an amendment to try and stop the UK leaving the EU, I just can't work that one out If the leave vote was 100% and unquestionably to leave the single market, then they would not be able to even suggest the amendment because that issue would have been dealt with by the vote. In fact, if the leave vote knew what they voted for there wouldn't even be much of a negotiation, it would just be a case of sorting the specifics, dotting the i's and crossing the t's. As it is, we don't even know if we are leaving the single market! What do you think the EEA is by the way???
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jan 14, 2018 21:09:37 GMT
why haven't they done it during the last 40 years then, was their own money on them? they start to look at it now as a sort of punishment or something to beat the uk with? Because we have stopped it each time as we have been in the EU and can do that type of thing But if we can stop the EU from doing anything, why would you want us to continue being a member & paying them billions of pounds every year, when we can simply overrule anything they want to do? Seems like an awful waste of money to me.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 14, 2018 21:17:57 GMT
Because we have stopped it each time as we have been in the EU and can do that type of thing But if we can stop the EU from doing anything, why would you want us to continue being a member & paying them billions of pounds every year, when we can simply overrule anything they want to do? Seems like an awful waste of money to me. Because we make a fortune from being the global investment hub for countries outside of the EU who want to invest here, the single market, euro clearing plus lots of extremely good laws that prevent our governments being too extreme or from making life harder in certain ways for the working classes in the UK. And we have a very powerful voice inside the EU so can prevent them doing things we disagree with if we feel strongly enough about it or persuade them to change course. This massively boosts our global voice as a result. We are not in schengen or the euro. We have the best bits and a very privileged position and our nations benefits enormously.
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 14, 2018 21:20:28 GMT
You are starting to sound deranged now, why are parties that don't want to leave the EU tabling an amendment to try and stop the UK leaving the EU, I just can't work that one out If the leave vote was 100% and unquestionably to leave the single market, then they would not be able to even suggest the amendment because that issue would have been dealt with by the vote. In fact, if the leave vote knew what they voted for there wouldn't even be much of a negotiation, it would just be a case of sorting the specifics, dotting the i's and crossing the t's. As it is, we don't even know if we are leaving the single market! What do you think the EEA is by the way??? Honestly totally fucking deranged, the people voted for a Tory government so no opposition party can put any amendment or bill that goes against the wishes of that government, you don't really understand parliamentary democracy and many other things by the look of it, and seriously how many fucking times we don't leave the single market, we lose tariff free access to it unless we negotiate this as part of the deal, EVERY country in the world except North Korea has access to the single market........ I know exactly what the EEA is I actually looked into what I was voting for before I voted unlike Mr This Post is Hidden
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