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Post by Trouserdog on May 14, 2017 8:53:46 GMT
Looking at the state of that first team yesterday, it's as clear as day where the problems lie. Some of the players we're still fielding are now way beyond their expiry date and if we go into next season with them as starters then we'll go down- it's as simple as that.
Right back: I'm still seething about the decision to renew Johnson's contract. He's fucking had it, and if we're keeping him over Bardsley as cover for a new man (assuming that we'll be signing one?) then that's already mistake #1. Absoltely no doubt I'd start Edwards next week, see what he's about and then promote him to back-up for next year if he looks decent. A new signing here though is crucial.
Left back: Pieters is woeful, but I think we'll have to keep him on as back-up. A new signing here please.
Centre back: We need to get BMI signed up or an alternative if he won't/can't come. Then it's down to what hapens with the back-up players. Cameron can do a job at CB, then if Muni leaves, I suppose we'd be looking at whether Sweeney can step up. Any chance of him playing at Southampton next week so we can have a look at him?
DM: I'd move Allen back into this position, but we HAVE to sign someone else to play alongside him. Whelan might do for back-up but I don't want him OR Cameron starting here. We need a proper high-class destroyer here.
This is the bare minimum we need, as if Sparky can bring himself to play Ramadan-Shaq-Arnie behind Berahino, then we've already got a tasty-looking attack with enough capable back-ups in Walters, Diouf, Crouch and (possibly) Bojan to see us through.
Overall though, we're looking at 4 quality players coming in to even keep us in mid-table.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 14, 2017 8:59:05 GMT
For the first team we need:
RB
LB
DM
Box to box midfielder
#10
None of the central midfielders are good enough, not a one of them.
All of the issues stem from those positions.
We have room for new full backs but where is the room for midfielders?
Whelan, Adam and Cameron have another year.
The crock that is Afellay has another 2.
And then headless chicken Joe has however long too.
2 of them at a minimum need to go to get the midfield we need.
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Post by FullerMagic on May 14, 2017 9:00:53 GMT
Yeah.
Right-back - urgent
Left-back urgent
Midfield destroyer - urgent
And as literally all evidence shows he sees none of Shaq, Arnie or Sobhi as even a No.10 contender, and is much happier nonsensically hanging Allen out to dry there, we desperately need one of those too (assuming Bojan's bridges are burnt)
I'd definitely like to see Edwards and Sweeney at Southampton, just to gauge what we've got. They literally cannot do any worse.
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Post by Trouserdog on May 14, 2017 9:01:49 GMT
For the first team we need: RB LB DM Box to box midfielder #10 None of the central midfielders are good enough, not a one of them. All of the issues stem from those positions. We have room for new full backs but where is the room for midfielders? Whelan, Adam and Cameron have another year. The crock that is Afellay has another 2. And then headless chicken Joe has however long too. 2 of them at a minimum need to go to get the midfield we need. We'll forever disagree about Allen, bayern. I think he's a decent option in that deeper role...by far the best midfeilder we've got (which really isn't saying a lot I admit). |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 14, 2017 9:03:36 GMT
Yeah. Right-back - urgent Left-back urgent Midfield destroyer - urgent And as literally all evidence shows he sees none of Shaq, Arnie or Sobhi as even a No.10 contender, and is much happier nonsensically hanging Allen out to dry there, we desperately need one of those too (assuming Bojan's bridges are burnt) I'd definitely like to see Edwards and Sweeney at Southampton, just to gauge what we've got. They literally cannot do any worse. Edwards should have been on the bench in about March though, what's suddenly going to change? This is a bloke who seems to me to have been the one who was desperate to give Glen Johnson a deal. And then play him because Phil Bardsley dared to kick a Chelsea player and got sent off for his troubles. |
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Post by cyprus1stokey on May 14, 2017 9:05:00 GMT
Agree with everything you said there Trouser.
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Post by xchpotter on May 14, 2017 9:05:33 GMT
It's bloody enormous and I don't think we have ever been so vulnerable. Something is massively wrong where even the quality players we have are performing around 60-70%. I think it is too much for Hughes as he wont get a tune out of the existing players which means he will have to change more personel and too much change results in a disjointed squad. I think a new manager will get the existing core back to where they should be and with three good signings as suggested in key areas we should be ok.
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Post by borat on May 14, 2017 9:06:44 GMT
If we see Whelan, Cameron, Johnson and Pieters in the team week in week out next season they bet your life we'll be in a relegation battle.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 14, 2017 9:07:26 GMT
For the first team we need: RB LB DM Box to box midfielder #10 None of the central midfielders are good enough, not a one of them. All of the issues stem from those positions. We have room for new full backs but where is the room for midfielders? Whelan, Adam and Cameron have another year. The crock that is Afellay has another 2. And then headless chicken Joe has however long too. 2 of them at a minimum need to go to get the midfield we need. We'll forever disagree about Allen, bayern. I think he's a decent option in that deeper role...by far the best midfeilder we've got (which really isn't saying a lot I admit). I've never liked him and he's done absolutely nothing to change my mind. His energy is needed but he goes about it so unintelligently. When he's the deepest man he goes ahead of the ball and gets caught out of position over and over again. He usually recovers so it looks like he's doing something but if he stood in the right place he wouldn't need to do it. As a squad player and option from the bench I think he's ideal but I don't trust him to protect the back 4. And he's not really what I want alongside someone who can read the game and tackle. I want a new midfield and keep the current ones as back up. |
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Post by samba :) on May 14, 2017 9:08:14 GMT
If we see Whelan, Cameron, Johnson and Pieters in the team week in week out next season they bet your life we'll be in a relegation battle. i shudder at the thought of glenn Johnson starting again, its gonna haopen though  |
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Post by WhyDelilah on May 14, 2017 9:11:15 GMT
Yep, full backs and midfielders need a massive overhaul.
I'm far from convinced on Saido too. I think we need a more physical presence, like Llorente.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on May 14, 2017 9:12:23 GMT
Yep, full backs and midfielders need a massive overhaul. I'm far from convinced on Saido too. I think we need a more physical presence, like Llorente. Or Milik from Napoli. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on May 14, 2017 9:12:28 GMT
Yeah. Right-back - urgent Left-back urgent Midfield destroyer - urgent And as literally all evidence shows he sees none of Shaq, Arnie or Sobhi as even a No.10 contender, and is much happier nonsensically hanging Allen out to dry there, we desperately need one of those too (assuming Bojan's bridges are burnt)
I'd definitely like to see Edwards and Sweeney at Southampton, just to gauge what we've got. They literally cannot do any worse. I think the paragraph I have underlined is the key one. I think even Hughes probably agrees with your first three points. But the refusal to perm/rotate Shaq, Arnie and Sobhi to establish the best way to use them is a complete mystery to me. Every time I watch Shaq play I see a player who looks as if he would be far more confident/effective in the middle than he is on either wing. He had his best spells there for Switzerland in the Euros. His constant checking back when he is played on the right is easy to read for any opposition left back and delays EVERY attack down the right side. I had to laugh yesterday when Shaq found himself wide on the left and STILL checked back so he could get the ball on his WRONG foot - you couldn't make it up!  If we play Arnie and Sobhi on the wings next season I realise that this means one of them would not be playing in their preferred position as an inverted left winger but it would mean that one of them would always be in a position to play as a conventional winger and, potentially, that would speed up our attacks. If they can't get to grips with that idea then we'll have to buy a specialist conventional right winger as we are crying out for one - or of course we get a pair of full backs with the engine and the crossing ability to provide genuine width. |
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Post by cobhamstokey on May 14, 2017 9:12:39 GMT
In order of priority
DM - if not 2. We need someone in the mould of Koyate at West Ham. Id still like Allen to be given a chance in a 2 with someone capable.
CB - Indi needs to sign.
RB - A young athletic RB.
LB - Someone who puts Eric to back up.
That's it for me
GK - Excellent.
CB - we could do with some cover if Indi signs.
AM - Id play Shaq there with Bojan as backup.
WING - A core of Arni, Shaq, Sobhi and Verlinden will be fine.
STR - If we play with 1 up front were fine.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 9:13:48 GMT
We are crying out for a team captain Shawcross is not a leader.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 14, 2017 9:14:02 GMT
The bigger question is who we do we trust to undertake the massive rebuild.
I currently wouldn't trust Hughes to build a Wendy House.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 9:20:42 GMT
In order of priority DM - if not 2. We need someone in the mould of Koyate at West Ham. Id still like Allen to be given a chance in a 2 with someone capable. CB - Indi needs to sign. RB - A young athletic RB. LB - Someone who puts Eric to back up. That's it for me GK - Excellent. CB - we could do with some cover if Indi signs. AM - Id play Shaq there with Bojan as backup. WING - A core of Arni, Shaq, Sobhi and Verlinden will be fine. STR - If we play with 1 up front were fine. Exactly, it's really not as big a turnaround as some people think. And I think Muniesa at left back with Pieters as cover would be more than ok, so I'm not even sure we need to worry about that. It basically boils down to sign a current loan player on a permanent with 2 or 3 additions. We'd be hoping for that after a good season. Pretty sure it's going to be another summer with people queuing up on here to tell us how worried we are, so me thinks another break from this board is in store, which is a shame as it's the best source of transfer info. |
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Post by stokie1997 on May 14, 2017 9:25:32 GMT
Far bigger task ahead for whoever is in charge than when TP left. I just pray that Coates doesn't trust Hughes with any money or else we'll turn into QPR
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Post by silverdollar on May 14, 2017 9:51:43 GMT
Just look at this list of players that at present we are hoping can retain our Premiership status next season:- Haugard, Ireland, Joselu, Bojan, Diouf, Imbula, Walters, Whelan, Adam, Crouch, Johnson, Afellay Bachmann, Given, Bardsley, Johnson, Muniesa, Pieters and Shawcross. These players make the bulk of our squad of 25. If you look at these names you cannot help but realise what a mess our club is in at the moment. You would not get many Stoke fans that would not be very worried about our status.
I am hard pressed to come up with names I can place my trust in to compete at Premier League level, perhaps Butland, Grant,Sobhi, Allen, Indi (If he signs)' and Berahino.
This is a scenario that Mark Hughes has managed. Is this a person that we can have confidence in? This summer is going to be very difficult for any manager but I certainly now believe Hughes should not be trusted to manage this overall. The action needed will require near to £100 million realistically if we are to maintain our status in the top ten.
I am frightened because I believe the damage has been done and with an influx of so many new players the turnaround may not come soon enough. Please Mr Coates act quickly after next week. We need a clear out! Including especially the recruitment staff who's performance has been abysmal.
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Post by ashleyscfc on May 14, 2017 9:52:12 GMT
The club is stale and rotten from top to bottom.
We need a re-shuffle at board level and recruitment level as we clearly aren't good enough in this area.
Failed to bring in players suitable for the premier league, failed to bring through any youth players, failed to replace ageing british players.
Our track record on signings is abysmal and thats not just down to the manager. Carto, Scouting team, Scholes, Peter & John Coates will all sign off on that.
We aren't good enough to be able to lose players and replace them instantly like Southampton, Everton etc.
We won't spend the big money to buy guaranteed goals aka Benteke at Palace, Lukaku etc.
The only 2 other teams who have one 1 game in their last 10 are Sunderland and West Brom.
We are the only team in the bottom half of the league where our top scorer has scored only 6 goals. And he's 36.
Every other team has a player who has scored more than our top scorer. We are in shit street.
We have badly invested for 5 years and the 'dogs home' shoestring attitude is coming home to roost.
It costs serious money to replace british players with younger, better ones and it seems we just won't spend it.
Our goals scored/conceded/overall points are nearly as bad, if not as worse as its ever been!
The only players in recent memory I can remember us buying who weren't 'squad players' or totally unwanted elsewhere were Joe Allen and Crouch...Says all you need to know about our transfer department
1 England GK Jack Butland - Will he be here? Of course he stays
2 Scotland DF Phil Bardsley - Good understudy, replacement needed
3 Netherlands DF Erik Pieters - Same
4 Wales MF Joe Allen - Must play in his only position CDM.
5 Spain DF Marc Muniesa - Squad player, is it finally time to cut our losses?
6 Republic of Ireland MF Glenn Whelan (vice-captain) - The legs aren't there, its time to go
7 Republic of Ireland MF Stephen Ireland - A 12 month contract? Not 6 months? Time to go
8 England DF Glen Johnson - Seems to be getting worse every game. Time to go
9 England FW Saido Berahino - We must persevere, but how do we get the best out of him? We must play to his strengths and change our style to suit.
10 Austria FW Marko Arnautović - Carried us this year
12 Ivory Coast FW Wilfried Bony (on loan from Manchester City) - Waste of money
14 Netherlands MF Ibrahim Afellay - Another inconsistent player, as good as he is surely injury worries mean his time us up?
15 Netherlands DF Bruno Martins Indi (on loan from Porto) - Give him what he wants
16 Scotland MF Charlie Adam - Time to go
17 England DF Ryan Shawcross (captain) - Seems to of struck a good partnership with BMI
18 Senegal FW Mame Biram Diouf - 2 games all season starting as a striker
19 Republic of Ireland FW Jonathan Walters - Time to go
20 United States DF Geoff Cameron - Good understudy, needs replacing
21 France MF Giannelli Imbula - If he won't be played time to cut our losses, but I still don't believe theres not a good player in there.
22 Switzerland MF Xherdan Shaqiri - Remain in two minds if I think he's a luxury player we can't afford.
24 Republic of Ireland GK Shay Given - Retiring
25 England FW Peter Crouch - Great servant but should not be relied on
29 Denmark GK Jakob Haugaard - Not good enough
32 Egypt MF Ramadan Sobhi - Great talent, should he replace Arnie? No but can he not play on the right?
33 England GK Lee Grant - Good number 2, if Jack goes still need another 2 GKs
35 Austria GK Daniel Bachmann - Not had a chance
Loan
11 Spain FW Joselu (at Deportivo La Coruña for the 2016–17 season) - Seemed the heir apparent to Crouch, I still think he can do a job
26 Germany DF Philipp Wollscheid (at VfL Wolfsburg for the 2016–17 season) - Useless
27 Spain FW Bojan Krkić (at 1. FSV Mainz 05 for the 2016–17 season) - Bring him home
By my guesstimates we need:
GK x 2/RB/LB/CB + Indi/CM x 2/Winger/Striker 10 which is not unusual for a window for us.
We are shipping out 11.
That will cost a small fortune but if we scrimp and save season after season who's surprised?
We need to spend it now or there is a very good chance we will go down. We have to buy quality as well, something we haven't done in the past.
I've seen no evidence our club hierarchy and team management are up to this task...summer could be interesting
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Post by boskampsflaps on May 14, 2017 9:56:54 GMT
I think we'd need 2 fullbacks, 2 cb's, 2 midfielders and a striker minimum, and a lot of shipping out, theres way too much to be done in one summer and I really don't think Hughes is up to it, if what he says is to believed I don't think he sees there's that much of a problem which is worrying.
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Post by wuzza on May 14, 2017 10:03:28 GMT
Until we have settled on a system how the hell do we know what players we want / need?
To me the biggest crime this season is that the management still havent established a consistent approach to winning games!
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 10:05:08 GMT
More worrying than the players need replacing is the fact the rebuild has been needed and neglected since 2013.
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Post by leicspotter on May 15, 2017 19:01:26 GMT
We need pace, energy and a balanced side...all the things we were lacking against Arsenal...and pretty much every other club this season and most of last. Cameron may not be the most gifted footballer in the world but he DOES bring some energy to the side Modern football requires two quick full backs with energy to burn...not sure this is the profile of our current options. Glen Whelan USED to be a box to box grafter...he owes us NOTHING but we do need to replace him...sadly Imbula has turned out NOT to be that person (if only Zonz was still here!) So, by the end of July all will be sorted  |
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Post by superheroantonius on May 15, 2017 19:18:25 GMT
For the first team we need: RB LB DM Box to box midfielder #10 None of the central midfielders are good enough, not a one of them. All of the issues stem from those positions. We have room for new full backs but where is the room for midfielders? Whelan, Adam and Cameron have another year. The crock that is Afellay has another 2. And then headless chicken Joe has however long too. 2 of them at a minimum need to go to get the midfield we need. We'll forever disagree about Allen, bayern. I think he's a decent option in that deeper role...by far the best midfeilder we've got (which really isn't saying a lot I admit). When he played against us in the league Cup semi final his Liverpool team mates backed him up when he went to press the ball. And pretty much every stoke fan went. ..that Joe Allen is a good player. If say for arguments sake he goes to press the ball for stoke and his team mates don't back him up then why does that make him a ' headless chicken ' |
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Post by jezzascfc on May 15, 2017 19:22:35 GMT
We need youth and energy - reports of Sergi Palencia, Loftus Cheek, Maguire, Ake etc are welcome, but is there any real evidence this is anything other than paper talk?
Hughes has said he needs to focus on more defensive signings this window, so let's hope he sees it the same way as most of us in terms of recruitment - ie not looking to sign the likes of a well past it John bloody Terry!
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 15, 2017 19:27:41 GMT
More worrying than the players need replacing is the fact the rebuild has been needed and neglected since 2013. Butland, Allen, Shaqiri, Arnie, Martins Indi are now first team regulars and worthy of a first team place. Berahino could still be a first team regular next year, Ramamdan will be putting pressure on Arnie and Shaqiri and personally I'm ok with Shawcross and Cameron from the 2013 cohort. To say the rebuild has been neglected is nonsense. However it does need completing: 1 High quality DM - Whelan is struggling against the better teams 2 Right back and left back 3 First team quality striker to keep Berahino on his toes 4 First team quality attacking midfielder to provide competition and variety I'm not under estimating the importance of the summer overhaul but in reality we have a solid core that needs improving in some key areas - not a complete replacement of the first 11 from 2013 - most of whom aren't first team regular's anymore. |
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Post by maninasuitcase on May 15, 2017 19:38:44 GMT
DIY SOS would struggle to rebuild our squad.
We need a good brickie to build a wall behind Jack to protect the goal, and go from there.
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Post by GeneralFaye on May 15, 2017 19:44:23 GMT
Hasn't Hughes been quoted as saying we're going to largely target defensive players in the summer? If that includes 2 spanking new fullbacks and finally a replacement for Whelan then that will be a start.
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Post by Davef on May 15, 2017 19:47:11 GMT
The club is stale and rotten from top to bottom. We need a re-shuffle at board level and recruitment level as we clearly aren't good enough in this area. Failed to bring in players suitable for the premier league, failed to bring through any youth players, failed to replace ageing british players. Our track record on signings is abysmal and thats not just down to the manager. Carto, Scouting team, Scholes, Peter & John Coates will all sign off on that. We aren't good enough to be able to lose players and replace them instantly like Southampton, Everton etc. We won't spend the big money to buy guaranteed goals aka Benteke at Palace, Lukaku etc. The only 2 other teams who have one 1 game in their last 10 are Sunderland and West Brom. We are the only team in the bottom half of the league where our top scorer has scored only 6 goals. And he's 36. Every other team has a player who has scored more than our top scorer. We are in shit street. We have badly invested for 5 years and the 'dogs home' shoestring attitude is coming home to roost. It costs serious money to replace british players with younger, better ones and it seems we just won't spend it. Our goals scored/conceded/overall points are nearly as bad, if not as worse as its ever been! The only players in recent memory I can remember us buying who weren't 'squad players' or totally unwanted elsewhere were Joe Allen and Crouch...Says all you need to know about our transfer department 1 England GK Jack Butland - Will he be here? Of course he stays 2 Scotland DF Phil Bardsley - Good understudy, replacement needed 3 Netherlands DF Erik Pieters - Same 4 Wales MF Joe Allen - Must play in his only position CDM. 5 Spain DF Marc Muniesa - Squad player, is it finally time to cut our losses? 6 Republic of Ireland MF Glenn Whelan (vice-captain) - The legs aren't there, its time to go 7 Republic of Ireland MF Stephen Ireland - A 12 month contract? Not 6 months? Time to go 8 England DF Glen Johnson - Seems to be getting worse every game. Time to go 9 England FW Saido Berahino - We must persevere, but how do we get the best out of him? We must play to his strengths and change our style to suit. 10 Austria FW Marko Arnautović - Carried us this year 12 Ivory Coast FW Wilfried Bony (on loan from Manchester City) - Waste of money 14 Netherlands MF Ibrahim Afellay - Another inconsistent player, as good as he is surely injury worries mean his time us up? 15 Netherlands DF Bruno Martins Indi (on loan from Porto) - Give him what he wants 16 Scotland MF Charlie Adam - Time to go 17 England DF Ryan Shawcross (captain) - Seems to of struck a good partnership with BMI 18 Senegal FW Mame Biram Diouf - 2 games all season starting as a striker 19 Republic of Ireland FW Jonathan Walters - Time to go 20 United States DF Geoff Cameron - Good understudy, needs replacing 21 France MF Giannelli Imbula - If he won't be played time to cut our losses, but I still don't believe theres not a good player in there. 22 Switzerland MF Xherdan Shaqiri - Remain in two minds if I think he's a luxury player we can't afford. 24 Republic of Ireland GK Shay Given - Retiring 25 England FW Peter Crouch - Great servant but should not be relied on 29 Denmark GK Jakob Haugaard - Not good enough 32 Egypt MF Ramadan Sobhi - Great talent, should he replace Arnie? No but can he not play on the right? 33 England GK Lee Grant - Good number 2, if Jack goes still need another 2 GKs 35 Austria GK Daniel Bachmann - Not had a chance Loan 11 Spain FW Joselu (at Deportivo La Coruña for the 2016–17 season) - Seemed the heir apparent to Crouch, I still think he can do a job 26 Germany DF Philipp Wollscheid (at VfL Wolfsburg for the 2016–17 season) - Useless 27 Spain FW Bojan Krkić (at 1. FSV Mainz 05 for the 2016–17 season) - Bring him home By my guesstimates we need: GK x 2/RB/LB/CB + Indi/CM x 2/Winger/Striker 10 which is not unusual for a window for us. We are shipping out 11. That will cost a small fortune but if we scrimp and save season after season who's surprised? We need to spend it now or there is a very good chance we will go down. We have to buy quality as well, something we haven't done in the past. I've seen no evidence our club hierarchy and team management are up to this task...summer could be interesting Stale? Maybe. Rotten? Don't be ridiculous. |
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