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Post by Paul Spencer on May 13, 2017 23:32:28 GMT
Whether we stick with him or sack him, one thing's for certain: we need to spend a hell of a lot of money. The question is, does Coates trust him to invest wisely? Should he trust him? I'd give Hughes the summer cheque book, cross my fingers that this year's been an aberration and then make a judgement in October. If at that point we still look as bad as we do now then I think it's fair enough- time to go. He's on the thinnest of thin ice after that display. A cowards opinion. If you're going to stick by him now, then you better well understand (and most importantly ACCEPT) the responsibility that that opinion entails, if you don't/can't, then you need to call to replace him now. In 'October' the money will have been blown on Hughes' failed (even more) new signings and the opportunity to bring in a credible replacement new manager will have been severely reduced. You will have tied one hand up against the back of the club in the pursuit of 'managerial continuity' and then fucked off that 'managerial continuity' just 12 weeks into the season if Hughes has another of his (to be expected) slow starts. You either champion him now and have GENUINE belief in that conviction to follow it (ALL THE WAY) through, or you call for him to go now, anything else is just weak half way house horse shit, that ultimately will leave the club in a very precarious position going forwards. |
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Post by Davef on May 14, 2017 0:40:40 GMT
Can anyone think of another Premier League manager who, four years into his tenure, would be fielding half a dozen players who he inherited who are a) four years older! b) are clearly not up to standard or c) despite this, considered better than players he's spent millions of pounds on?
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Post by Gary Hackett on May 14, 2017 0:55:59 GMT
I was never a Hughes fan before he came here, I thought he was dour and very arrogant but after the first 2 years I thought we had someone who would really take us to the next level.
Even after the bad end to last season and horiffic start to this season I truly thought it was a blip and that he'd find a solution. I guess I lost patience with him after the FA cup loss to Wolves and since it's compounded the belief he really hasn't got the foggiest how to remedy it. Giving Johnson the contract and benching of Sobhi really was the last straw for me.
I wouldn't trust him with another penny and I think we would seriously be in relegation danger next season if he stays. I'll thank him for the first 2 seasons which I enjoyed more than any other time being a Stoke fan and wish him well.
It's time for a change, not making it now would be suicide.
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usapotter
Academy Starlet
Simply a Potter from across the pond
Posts: 221 
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Post by usapotter on May 14, 2017 1:09:35 GMT
I was never a Hughes fan before he came here, I thought he was dour and very arrogant but after the first 2 years I thought we had someone who would really take us to the next level. Even after the bad end to last season and horiffic start to this season I truly thought it was a blip and that he'd find a solution. I guess I lost patience with him after the FA cup loss to Wolves and since it's compounded the belief he really hasn't got the foggiest how to remedy it. Giving Johnson the contract and benching of Sobhi really was the last straw for me. I wouldn't trust him with another penny and I think we would seriously be in relegation danger next season if he stays. I'll thank him for the first 2 seasons which I enjoyed more than any other time being a Stoke fan and wish him well. It's time for a change, not making it now would be suicide. I couldn't agree more. I would really highlight that it is almost criminal to keep Ramadan out of the team. After his consistently good form game after game when Shaq was hurt how do you justify benching a player like that. I personally think Ramadan, Arny, and Shaq could've fit into a team all at once. You could even add Bojan in with those and have a lighting front 4. Arny has proven he can play up top and score goals. Put him there and that may solve a problem with having 4 strikers on your fucking game day bench. Put Sobhi out left, Shaq out right, and Bojan in the 10 role. Sort out two defensive midfielders, say GCam and Whelan and that will do a job. I wouldn't give him a dime as he's proved that he has no idea what to do with any significant amount of money. |
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Post by thevoid on May 14, 2017 1:21:30 GMT
Whether we stick with him or sack him, one thing's for certain: we need to spend a hell of a lot of money. The question is, does Coates trust him to invest wisely? Should he trust him? I'd give Hughes the summer cheque book, cross my fingers that this year's been an aberration and then make a judgement in October. If at that point we still look as bad as we do now then I think it's fair enough- time to go. He's on the thinnest of thin ice after that display. 18 months must the longest aberration in history. |
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Post by stokeyank on May 14, 2017 3:06:27 GMT
I'm less concerned about what they give to spend. He's actually brought in a quite a few descent players. Had some real screw ups too but everyone has those. There are two bigger issues. While he seems to know what positions may need help he does not have the balls to bench senior players when needed, either because they need a rest, they are just poor or the youth are outplaying them. Second even when getting some of those better players (Shaq, Ramadan, Allen) he does not seem to know how and where to put them in a position to play to their strengths. Why is Allen still playing forward, why is Shaq not tried in the 10 role and why in the hell is Ramadan not in the side nearly every week. Just smacks to me of someone who does not have the guts or know how to make those changes. Not saying I know more but he's tried nearly everything else, so why not?
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Post by kidcrewbob on May 14, 2017 3:20:18 GMT
I'm a solid outer and have been for a few months now but I am NOT an ABH - i.e."anyone but Hughes" - would rather keep him than just sign up another Mike Bassett domestic journeyman a la Pardew, Allardyce, Moyes etc - Hopefully Coates' mediators have already been sounding out potentials.....we shall see
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Post by loosestools on May 14, 2017 5:30:00 GMT
I actually think it is getting to the stage that it is more risky to keep Hughes than let him go. A few weeks ago I would have said give him another season but I think that time is past now. In reality he's had 18 months to sort our decline that started after the semi-final and I have seen nothing in our play, set up and tactics that he has yet grasped what is going wrong and how to fix it. The first 2 1/2 years were fantastic, we changed our style, we weren't afraid to take teams on and we took some incredible scalps playing very good football as well as bringing in exciting players. I can't fathom what has gone wrong and why Hughes has turned his back on playing positively and trusting flair players, but he has. Our display today summed up the last 18 months with the over reliance on the fading old guard, poor substitutions, too little to late as usual, lack of trust in young players when there was little to lose, lack of tactical awareness and head in the sand approach in keeping trying the same failed tactics and formations and expecting them to suddenly work. It was obvious from the start that Arsenal's formation was allowing them to get behind our full backs and created havoc, yet this was not addressed all game, no response tactically, no change of shape ( if we even had one) and no perceptible urgency to the situation. It's been blatantly obvious to most of us that we lack pace all over the team but especially in the midfield and when you add a lack of creativity in that department as well the result is what we have been seeing. We are a team devoid of ideas at the moment with no confidence, shape, plan, purpose or resilience, we are painfully slow about the pitch and our passing and movement which improved so much under Hughes is back where it started when he took over. We have creativity in Shaq and Arnie but good teams and even average teams can plan against that, wingers can be nullified quite easily when there is no creativity or threat from anywhere else in the team and when the ball is always so slow to get to them and all forward momentum is lost and they are under pressure to perform miracles time and time again which is absurd. After 4 years we should have eased the old guard out slowly, bringing in new players slowly over that time, refreshing the squad in key areas as necessary but we are now in a position that we are heavily reliant on them in Hughes's eyes and don't trust our new players. This for me is Hughes's biggest failing, a lack of orderly transition in the team, a lack of depth to the squad which means we have an ageing core of players which really all need replacing in one go and that's a big gamble. I'm very grateful for a lot Hughes has done for the club and personally think he's a decent man with a good record overall but I have that feeling he's one of those managers who doesn't seem to be changing with the times and the way the pressing game and high intensity style of play has brought new challenges to the game. Our central midfield is the best example of this, static, slow, lacking creativity, pace and purpose and devoid of drive. If it was a species it would be on the endangered list for failing to adapt to the modern world. In many ways I would be sorry to see Hughes go if he does but I know think it would be best for both sides. I'm sure he will do well at another club but if we want to progress we need to aim high and we should have the financial clout and stability to do that and attract a manager who can move us forward once more, much as Hughes did when he first came here. Send this by recorded delivery to Uncle Peter. Save |
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on May 14, 2017 5:59:32 GMT
Is it actually more risky to keep Hughes now? That is the question that Coates needs to ask himself. I have always cautioned against changing managers and Hughes does have a pretty good track record overall. I am beginning to think though that keeping him is at least as risky as changing, especially given we will need to spend quite a bit to fix his past mistakes. On that front his track record is not so great. This is not a knee jerk post to a heavy defeat and frustrating season. I have consistently argued in favour of sticking with Hughes but I was not expecting such a prolonged run of poor form to finish the season. Good job we are safe, have a few quality players and a chairman who cares about the club and has good judgement. Frustrating season but things could be a lot worse. Are there any on here who are still convinced we should definitely stick with him because I for one am certainly wobbling now? Dare I say it but I'm starting to wobble. There are 2 reasons-: 1. Hughes has had a bit of a shocker and the football this season (on the whole) has been pretty dire. His team selections and substitutions have frustrated me immensely. However, I have ALWAYS given him and the team my full support at home and away games. Most of you on here will know that I've always backed Hughes and tried to argue his case. That's just called loyalty, nothing more. 2. A worryingly high percentage of our fans are a fucking disgrace to our club. Yesterday opitimised this, and once again we showed what a bunch of twats we've turned into on live TV by walking out in droves well before the end of the game. Do you not think that the other approximately 18k who remained in the ground were not as disappointed as you? What a wank message to send to the team on the last game of the season. What the fuck have we become? Arsenal fans must've noticed a significantly different atmosphere than they've experienced over the years. Embarrassing. |
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Post by VolvicStokie on May 14, 2017 6:33:14 GMT
How can Coates trust him with more money? It's just not going to happen.
He's spunked nearly 20 million on Imbula and has now put him on the transfer list where no doubt we'll make a big loss. And instead we've got Whelan. Allen and Cameron as a midfield 3 today who really were embarrassing to watch today.
Coates needs to get rid of him and get someone in who can clear out the Deadwood. Not give contracts to crocks & ageing players, get those creative players back in the fold and make use of the undoubtedly hugely talented squad we've got.
On paper we're a top 8 team. Although fuck all is won on paper we need to be up there challenging with what we have and the reality is we've gone so far backwards we were a loss away from being in the relegation battle on the last day!!
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on May 14, 2017 6:52:52 GMT
How can Coates trust him with more money? It's just not going to happen. He's spunked nearly 20 million on Imbula and has now put him on the transfer list where no doubt we'll make a big loss. And instead we've got Whelan. Allen and Cameron as a midfield 3 today who really were embarrassing to watch today. Coates needs to get rid of him and get someone in who can clear out the Deadwood. Not give contracts to crocks & ageing players, get those creative players back in the fold and make use of the undoubtedly hugely talented squad we've got. On paper we're a top 8 team. Although fuck all is won on paper we need to be up there challenging with what we have and the reality is we've gone so far backwards we were a loss away from being in the relegation battle on the last day!! Managers have made shit transfers,it happens. Look at Fergusson at United. Veron, Forlan, Djemba Djemba etc. Having said that, I do have concerns mate. |
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Post by itsajoytobeapotter on May 14, 2017 7:05:01 GMT
Is it actually more risky to keep Hughes now? That is the question that Coates needs to ask himself. I have always cautioned against changing managers and Hughes does have a pretty good track record overall. I am beginning to think though that keeping him is at least as risky as changing, especially given we will need to spend quite a bit to fix his past mistakes. On that front his track record is not so great. This is not a knee jerk post to a heavy defeat and frustrating season. I have consistently argued in favour of sticking with Hughes but I was not expecting such a prolonged run of poor form to finish the season. Good job we are safe, have a few quality players and a chairman who cares about the club and has good judgement. Frustrating season but things could be a lot worse. Are there any on here who are still convinced we should definitely stick with him because I for one am certainly wobbling now? Dare I say it but I'm starting to wobble. There are 2 reasons-: 1. Hughes has had a bit of a shocker and the football this season (on the whole) has been pretty dire. His team selections and substitutions have frustrated me immensely. However, I have ALWAYS given him and the team my full support at home and away games. Most of you on here will know that I've always backed Hughes and tried to argue his case. That's just called loyalty, nothing more. 2. A worryingly high percentage of our fans are a fucking disgrace to our club. Yesterday opitimised this, and once again we showed what a bunch of twats we've turned into on live TV by walking out in droves well before the end of the game. Do you not think that the other approximately 18k who remained in the ground were not as disappointed as you? What a wank message to send to the team on the last game of the season. What the fuck have we become? Arsenal fans must've noticed a significantly different atmosphere than they've experienced over the years. Embarrassing. Can't understand this fixation with calling those who leave early embarrassing. The embarrassment yesterday was watching those in the red and white chasing shadows. People pay their hard earned to watch their team. It's their call when they want to go and shouldn't be the subject of debate on a message board. If you put a crap programme on the tv do you watch to the end or turn it off? It's your choice just like leaving the game early. |
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Post by milky on May 14, 2017 7:07:28 GMT
Whether we stick with him or sack him, one thing's for certain: we need to spend a hell of a lot of money. The question is, does Coates trust him to invest wisely? Should he trust him? I'd give Hughes the summer cheque book, cross my fingers that this year's been an aberration and then make a judgement in October. If at that point we still look as bad as we do now then I think it's fair enough- time to go. He's on the thinnest of thin ice after that display. A cowards opinion. If you're going to stick by him now, then you better well understand (and most importantly ACCEPT) the responsibility that that opinion entails, if you don't/can't, then you need to call to replace him now. In 'October' the money will have been blown on Hughes' failed (even more) new signings and the opportunity to bring in a credible replacement new manager will have been severely reduced. You will have tied one hand up against the back of the club in the pursuit of 'managerial continuity' and then fucked off that 'managerial continuity' just 12 weeks into the season if Hughes has another of his (to be expected) slow starts. You either champion him now and have GENUINE belief in that conviction to follow it (ALL THE WAY) through, or you call for him to go now, anything else is just weak half way house horse shit, that ultimately will leave the club in a very precarious position going forwards. Agree 100 % If Coates is going to back his man then fair enough..but it would be madness to do that and then pull the plug after half a dozen games after the inevitable slow start. I can see a similar scenario as happened with Pulis.There could well be a big announcement in midweek after the final game. Whatever happens it's going to be the most important summer since we've been at this level I think.Get it wrong and we could well be in big trouble.2 new full backs and a total revamp of the midfield is mandatory whoever is in charge. |
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Post by theteacher on May 14, 2017 7:17:38 GMT
I've always liked him and thought it was unthinkable we'd be in this position, even after the...er....interesting end to last season. Doesn't sit that well to give a bloke with his track record the heave-ho after one shocker of a season after three 9ths, but he hasn't really put a solitary foot right this season, has he? For that reason, I'd struggle to raise many objections if the powers-that-be thought it was riskier to keep him than give a new guy a clean slate. Don't envy 'the family' making the call. They really need to get it right, and they have done so far so I'll back them to do it again I am of a similar mindset. I guess that the outcome should come following a sit down meeting between Chairman and Manager. The Chairman should need to understand that the Manager understands the shortcomings of this season and has a clear plan for what is required to get us back on track next season. Reviewing fitness, formation, recruitment, strategic direction and what is needed to put things right. If the Chairman is happy with the Managers explanation(s) and strategy then he continues BUT if not then the trigger needs to be pulled directly after next weekends game. We as fans only get to see and hear what is available. I trust the Coates family to have a clearer picture of the whole situation and make the correct call. At this time and without all of the facts I am in the out camp. This because of the facts which are available to me as a supporter but I have trust in the family to do the correct thing. |
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Post by superheroantonius on May 14, 2017 7:51:56 GMT
Do the players look motivated?
No
Do they look organised?
No
Right, I have given that all the thought needed
Next question please?
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on May 14, 2017 8:01:48 GMT
Dare I say it but I'm starting to wobble. There are 2 reasons-: 1. Hughes has had a bit of a shocker and the football this season (on the whole) has been pretty dire. His team selections and substitutions have frustrated me immensely. However, I have ALWAYS given him and the team my full support at home and away games. Most of you on here will know that I've always backed Hughes and tried to argue his case. That's just called loyalty, nothing more. 2. A worryingly high percentage of our fans are a fucking disgrace to our club. Yesterday opitimised this, and once again we showed what a bunch of twats we've turned into on live TV by walking out in droves well before the end of the game. Do you not think that the other approximately 18k who remained in the ground were not as disappointed as you? What a wank message to send to the team on the last game of the season. What the fuck have we become? Arsenal fans must've noticed a significantly different atmosphere than they've experienced over the years. Embarrassing. Can't understand this fixation with calling those who leave early embarrassing. The embarrassment yesterday was watching those in the red and white chasing shadows. People pay their hard earned to watch their team. It's their call when they want to go and shouldn't be the subject of debate on a message board. If you put a crap programme on the tv do you watch to the end or turn it off? It's your choice just like leaving the game early. It's the negative effect that seems to be spreading across our club. We're supposed to be the supporters and some of us are not doing a great job. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 8:03:54 GMT
Can anyone think of another Premier League manager who, four years into his tenure, would be fielding half a dozen players who he inherited who are a) four years older! b) are clearly not up to standard or c) despite this, considered better than players he's spent millions of pounds on? This, pretty much... |
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Post by Trouserdog on May 14, 2017 8:06:19 GMT
Whether we stick with him or sack him, one thing's for certain: we need to spend a hell of a lot of money. The question is, does Coates trust him to invest wisely? Should he trust him? I'd give Hughes the summer cheque book, cross my fingers that this year's been an aberration and then make a judgement in October. If at that point we still look as bad as we do now then I think it's fair enough- time to go. He's on the thinnest of thin ice after that display. A cowards opinion. If you're going to stick by him now, then you better well understand (and most importantly ACCEPT) the responsibility that that opinion entails, if you don't/can't, then you need to call to replace him now. In 'October' the money will have been blown on Hughes' failed (even more) new signings and the opportunity to bring in a credible replacement new manager will have been severely reduced. You will have tied one hand up against the back of the club in the pursuit of 'managerial continuity' and then fucked off that 'managerial continuity' just 12 weeks into the season if Hughes has another of his (to be expected) slow starts. You either champion him now and have GENUINE belief in that conviction to follow it (ALL THE WAY) through, or you call for him to go now, anything else is just weak half way house horse shit, that ultimately will leave the club in a very precarious position going forwards.
You either champion him now and have GENUINE belief in that conviction to follow it (ALL THE WAY) through, or you call for him to go now, anything else is just weak half way house horse shit, that ultimately will leave the club in a very precarious position going forwards.I've always maintained that Hughes should be allowed ONE bad season following his excellent track record with us. That means he has to be given the opportiunity to put things right for the next one, and the only time he has to do that is the summer window. It's absolute garbage to say that holding that opinion means I have to then support the manager for the whole of the next season, regardless of what happens. By that logic, no manager should ever be sacked mid-season, which is clearly bollocks. I understand the argument that if Hughes signs a load of dross this summer (you don't know he'd do this though, any more than I know he wouldn't) then he's lumbering a new manager with players he might not want, but we've seen countless examples of good managers coming into clubs and sorting out whatever resources he has available into a decent unit. There'd be plenty of managers around who'd jump at the chance of doing so as well, even if the season is underway. This season's been shite, and I wouldn't exactly be protesting outside the main doors if Coates pulled the trigger, but I still believe it's only far to give the bloke one last window to sort things out. You might call it cowardly, I'd call it reasonable. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 8:07:25 GMT
Are some suggesting then, that the Coates family should stick with the manager, despite what they've seen unfolding for the last 18 months, give him £xx millions of pounds to fix HIS mess, and in the meantime go fingers in ears, "lalalalallalalalalallalalalal" and hope that by September, it was all a bad dream?
I'd be verrry surprised if they'd accumulated their wealth by using that approach.
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Post by mattface on May 14, 2017 8:10:04 GMT
I'm a sticker. I'll let folk have a cathartic rant before getting involved in the mass debate though. I was but not after today - felt just like the Villa defeat in Tony's last season. I can take losing to a better side providing there is fight and effort - both lacking until we went 2 down. Just not good enough. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 14, 2017 11:01:59 GMT
A cowards opinion. If you're going to stick by him now, then you better well understand (and most importantly ACCEPT) the responsibility that that opinion entails, if you don't/can't, then you need to call to replace him now. In 'October' the money will have been blown on Hughes' failed (even more) new signings and the opportunity to bring in a credible replacement new manager will have been severely reduced. You will have tied one hand up against the back of the club in the pursuit of 'managerial continuity' and then fucked off that 'managerial continuity' just 12 weeks into the season if Hughes has another of his (to be expected) slow starts. You either champion him now and have GENUINE belief in that conviction to follow it (ALL THE WAY) through, or you call for him to go now, anything else is just weak half way house horse shit, that ultimately will leave the club in a very precarious position going forwards.
You either champion him now and have GENUINE belief in that conviction to follow it (ALL THE WAY) through, or you call for him to go now, anything else is just weak half way house horse shit, that ultimately will leave the club in a very precarious position going forwards.I've always maintained that Hughes should be allowed ONE bad season following his excellent track record with us. That means he has to be given the opportiunity to put things right for the next one, and the only time he has to do that is the summer window. It's absolute garbage to say that holding that opinion means I have to then support the manager for the whole of the next season, regardless of what happens. By that logic, no manager should ever be sacked mid-season, which is clearly bollocks. I understand the argument that if Hughes signs a load of dross this summer (you don't know he'd do this though, any more than I know he wouldn't) then he's lumbering a new manager with players he might not want, but we've seen countless examples of good managers coming into clubs and sorting out whatever resources he has available into a decent unit. There'd be plenty of managers around who'd jump at the chance of doing so as well, even if the season is underway. This season's been shite, and I wouldn't exactly be protesting outside the main doors if Coates pulled the trigger, but I still believe it's only far to give the bloke one last window to sort things out. You might call it cowardly, I'd call it reasonable.
It's much, much more than that though Trousers ...
You don't only deny the new guy the opportunity to bring in players of his own choosing but you also
1. Deny the new guy a preseason with the players. 2. Don't allow the new guy an equal start with all the other managers but rather have him start with a team that is already failing at or near to the foot of the table. 3. Seriously reduce your options when it comes to appointing a new manager. 4. Have a load of players on your books that you've spent new (probably big) money on, with lengthy contracts that will mean that the new guy will be restricted in what he can do in the traditionally poor value January window.
And you're prepared to do all this to be 'fair' and 'reasonable' to Mark Hughes?
We're paying him a million pounds a year and he would get a very sizeable pay off if he is sacked, do you really think if the boot was on the other foot, then Mark Hughes would give Stoke an extra year in order to be 'fair' and 'reasonable' towards us if a top seven club wanted him?
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 11:03:46 GMT
Is it actually more risky to keep Hughes now? That is the question that Coates needs to ask himself. I have always cautioned against changing managers and Hughes does have a pretty good track record overall. I am beginning to think though that keeping him is at least as risky as changing, especially given we will need to spend quite a bit to fix his past mistakes. On that front his track record is not so great. This is not a knee jerk post to a heavy defeat and frustrating season. I have consistently argued in favour of sticking with Hughes but I was not expecting such a prolonged run of poor form to finish the season. Good job we are safe, have a few quality players and a chairman who cares about the club and has good judgement. Frustrating season but things could be a lot worse. Are there any on here who are still convinced we should definitely stick with him because I for one am certainly wobbling now? It is more risky to keep him than get a real statement of a manager. Less risky to keep him than get a Pardew. |
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Post by stokemark on May 14, 2017 11:12:02 GMT
I honestly think if he does go Coates wil move for Hodgson
I can't see the Chairman taking a risk with a younger / up and coming manager so whoever it is then expect it not to be to the majority's taste
That said I think Hughes will still be here come August and that the 'problems' at Stoke run deep
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Post by Trouserdog on May 14, 2017 11:31:46 GMT
You either champion him now and have GENUINE belief in that conviction to follow it (ALL THE WAY) through, or you call for him to go now, anything else is just weak half way house horse shit, that ultimately will leave the club in a very precarious position going forwards.I've always maintained that Hughes should be allowed ONE bad season following his excellent track record with us. That means he has to be given the opportiunity to put things right for the next one, and the only time he has to do that is the summer window. It's absolute garbage to say that holding that opinion means I have to then support the manager for the whole of the next season, regardless of what happens. By that logic, no manager should ever be sacked mid-season, which is clearly bollocks. I understand the argument that if Hughes signs a load of dross this summer (you don't know he'd do this though, any more than I know he wouldn't) then he's lumbering a new manager with players he might not want, but we've seen countless examples of good managers coming into clubs and sorting out whatever resources he has available into a decent unit. There'd be plenty of managers around who'd jump at the chance of doing so as well, even if the season is underway. This season's been shite, and I wouldn't exactly be protesting outside the main doors if Coates pulled the trigger, but I still believe it's only far to give the bloke one last window to sort things out. You might call it cowardly, I'd call it reasonable.
It's much, much more than that though Trousers ...
You don't only deny the new guy the opportunity to bring in players of his own choosing but you also
1. Deny the new guy a preseason with the players. 2. Don't allow the new guy an equal start with all the other managers but rather have him start with a team that is already failing at or near to the foot of the table. 3. Seriously reduce your options when it comes to appointing a new manager. 4. Have a load of players on your books that you've spent new (probably big) money on, with lengthy contracts that will mean that the new guy will be restricted in what he can do in the traditionally poor value January window.
And you're prepared to do all this to be 'fair' and 'reasonable' to Mark Hughes?
We're paying him a million pounds a year and he would get a very sizeable pay off if he is sacked, do you really think if the boot was on the other foot, then Mark Hughes would give Stoke an extra year in order to be 'fair' and 'reasonable' towards us if a top seven club wanted him?
No, I'm prepared to do it because I think he can turn it around. He's already said in the press the players (position-wise) he thinks he needs- which is reassuring, and with him going back to 4-2-3-1 and sticking with it these past few weeks, I think his period of tactical fucking about has come to an end. If I thought there was no chance he could get back on track then it'd make more sense to get rid now, but I genuinely do think he can save himself with a good summer window. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 11:48:56 GMT
It's much, much more than that though Trousers ...
You don't only deny the new guy the opportunity to bring in players of his own choosing but you also
1. Deny the new guy a preseason with the players. 2. Don't allow the new guy an equal start with all the other managers but rather have him start with a team that is already failing at or near to the foot of the table. 3. Seriously reduce your options when it comes to appointing a new manager. 4. Have a load of players on your books that you've spent new (probably big) money on, with lengthy contracts that will mean that the new guy will be restricted in what he can do in the traditionally poor value January window.
And you're prepared to do all this to be 'fair' and 'reasonable' to Mark Hughes?
We're paying him a million pounds a year and he would get a very sizeable pay off if he is sacked, do you really think if the boot was on the other foot, then Mark Hughes would give Stoke an extra year in order to be 'fair' and 'reasonable' towards us if a top seven club wanted him?
No, I'm prepared to do it because I think he can turn it around. He's already said in the press the players (position-wise) he thinks he needs- which is reassuring, and with him going back to 4-2-3-1 and sticking with it these past few weeks, I think his period of tactical fucking about has come to an end. If I thought there was no chance he could get back on track then it'd make more sense to get rid now, but I genuinely do think he can save himself with a good summer window. He's too arrogant to change. He thinks hes always right. He's made too many mistakes and I'm sick to the back teeth of our seasons starting in October. I see absolutely no evidence he can turn things around. Not one of his big money signings has come off...not one. We have the worst full backs in The league and he has come out and said it's not a priority, he then compounds it by renewing Glen Johnsons contract . The parallels with his final months at Qpr are staggering. I'll never forget an interview with him when he was questioned whether their poor end of season form would carry on into the new season. Hughes replied " not on my watch" They had a poor start to the season ( what a shock) and he was subsequently sacked. This is exactly what will happen here. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 14, 2017 11:55:59 GMT
It's much, much more than that though Trousers ...
You don't only deny the new guy the opportunity to bring in players of his own choosing but you also
1. Deny the new guy a preseason with the players. 2. Don't allow the new guy an equal start with all the other managers but rather have him start with a team that is already failing at or near to the foot of the table. 3. Seriously reduce your options when it comes to appointing a new manager. 4. Have a load of players on your books that you've spent new (probably big) money on, with lengthy contracts that will mean that the new guy will be restricted in what he can do in the traditionally poor value January window.
And you're prepared to do all this to be 'fair' and 'reasonable' to Mark Hughes?
We're paying him a million pounds a year and he would get a very sizeable pay off if he is sacked, do you really think if the boot was on the other foot, then Mark Hughes would give Stoke an extra year in order to be 'fair' and 'reasonable' towards us if a top seven club wanted him?
No, I'm prepared to do it because I think he can turn it around. He's already said in the press the players (position-wise) he thinks he needs- which is reassuring, and with him going back to 4-2-3-1 and sticking with it these past few weeks, I think his period of tactical fucking about has come to an end. If I thought there was no chance he could get back on track then it'd make more sense to get rid now, but I genuinely do think he can save himself with a good summer window.
Yeah I completely respect all of what you've said there mate.
But what I can't respect is you saying all that and then saying but he needs fucking off after eight or nine weeks (in October) if it isn't working.
You simply don't get that get out clause, when so much (as in what I've listed above) is at risk.
You're essentially saying that you need another eight or nine weeks to come to a firm decision either way about him but during that time you're prepared to spend a truck load of money whilst you have a think about it.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 12:03:16 GMT
It's much, much more than that though Trousers ...
You don't only deny the new guy the opportunity to bring in players of his own choosing but you also
1. Deny the new guy a preseason with the players. 2. Don't allow the new guy an equal start with all the other managers but rather have him start with a team that is already failing at or near to the foot of the table. 3. Seriously reduce your options when it comes to appointing a new manager. 4. Have a load of players on your books that you've spent new (probably big) money on, with lengthy contracts that will mean that the new guy will be restricted in what he can do in the traditionally poor value January window.
And you're prepared to do all this to be 'fair' and 'reasonable' to Mark Hughes?
We're paying him a million pounds a year and he would get a very sizeable pay off if he is sacked, do you really think if the boot was on the other foot, then Mark Hughes would give Stoke an extra year in order to be 'fair' and 'reasonable' towards us if a top seven club wanted him?
No, I'm prepared to do it because I think he can turn it around. He's already said in the press the players (position-wise) he thinks he needs- which is reassuring, and with him going back to 4-2-3-1 and sticking with it these past few weeks, I think his period of tactical fucking about has come to an end. If I thought there was no chance he could get back on track then it'd make more sense to get rid now, but I genuinely do think he can save himself with a good summer window. Sorry to butt in but how does all of that work when he has just signed up Glen Johnson to another season when all and sundry are certain he's done and dusted at the top level? He says we need to invest in the defence then does that trick? With that in mind would you trust him to spend another penny to try and sort that out? I dread to think who he's got lined up as the Whelan replacement. His last two central midfield signings for me have been unmitigated disasters. Partly due to how he's used them post signing, which is part of the point. |
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Post by Trouserdog on May 14, 2017 12:30:59 GMT
No, I'm prepared to do it because I think he can turn it around. He's already said in the press the players (position-wise) he thinks he needs- which is reassuring, and with him going back to 4-2-3-1 and sticking with it these past few weeks, I think his period of tactical fucking about has come to an end. If I thought there was no chance he could get back on track then it'd make more sense to get rid now, but I genuinely do think he can save himself with a good summer window.
Yeah I completely respect all of what you've said there mate.
But what I can't respect is you saying all that and then saying but he needs fucking off after eight or nine weeks (in October) if it isn't working.
You simply don't get that get out clause, when so much (as in what I've listed above) is at risk.
You're essentially saying that you need another eight or nine weeks to come to a firm decision either way about him but during that time you're prepared to spend a truck load of money whilst you have a think about it.
Well, what you're effectively saying then is that if there's any doubt about a manager's ability come the end of the campaign then his club should never give him the summer to sort things out. One bad year and you're out, no matter how good your previous record is. And what do you mean that you don't get that get out clause? Of course we do- Leicester have done it, Palace have done it, Swansea have done it. If things aren't working and you're 100% convinced that things aren't going to improve then you get rid and a new man comes in. It's not rocket science is it? Paul Clement's turned Swansea around without spending any money. Big Sam's worked with a lot of Pardew's signings and sorted them out. That's what good managers do. Whatever Hughes spends this summer, he'll be buying footballers with enough ability to be of use to someone...he's not going to get £50 m and then spend it on Rolf Harris, Stephen Hawking and a couple of inmates from Harplands is he? We're talking high-level footballers who someone else will be able to use. At present I want Hughes to stay, then I'll judge next season on its own merits. I can understand why many people don't want him to stay, and I wouldn't put up any protest if Coates got rid, but I just don't agree with what you've written there. It's like you're saying, nail your colours to the mast then no changing your mind until next May...which is ridiculous. |
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Post by reddipotter on May 14, 2017 12:32:10 GMT
If Hughes is allowed a 'blip', then that was last season. Over this season, he has shown not the smallest indication that he even thinks there's a problem let alone how to fix it.
Oh, and the 'even Ferguson made bad signings' argument? Yes, but he also signed some very good players and brought youngsters through. Hughes has done neither of those things.
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Post by Trouserdog on May 14, 2017 12:33:48 GMT
No, I'm prepared to do it because I think he can turn it around. He's already said in the press the players (position-wise) he thinks he needs- which is reassuring, and with him going back to 4-2-3-1 and sticking with it these past few weeks, I think his period of tactical fucking about has come to an end. If I thought there was no chance he could get back on track then it'd make more sense to get rid now, but I genuinely do think he can save himself with a good summer window. Sorry to butt in but how does all of that work when he has just signed up Glen Johnson to another season when all and sundry are certain he's done and dusted at the top level? He says we need to invest in the defence then does that trick? With that in mind would you trust him to spend another penny to try and sort that out? I dread to think who he's got lined up as the Whelan replacement. His last two central midfield signings for me have been unmitigated disasters. Partly due to how he's used them post signing, which is part of the point. The only thing I can hope for is that he's picked one of Johnson or Bardsley to be his back-up RB next year and, in the opinion of most people, he's gone for the wrong one. |
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