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Post by Paul Spencer on May 11, 2017 8:52:54 GMT
If Middlesbrough HAD offered £8 million at the time, then I'm pretty sure Hughes would have sold him when he had the chance, obviously not every story in the newspapers is accurate. Or perhaps it's just your assessment that is not accurate? Would you agree that is a possibility? H Yeah well every post on here is a personal assessment isn't it? Just like yours was ... wouldn't you agree?
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Post by RAF on May 11, 2017 8:56:25 GMT
Or perhaps it's just your assessment that is not accurate? Would you agree that is a possibility? H Yeah well every post on here is a personal assessment isn't it? Just like yours was ... wouldn't you agree? Well mine was more of a counter-argument more than a personal assessment but essentially yes. H
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 11, 2017 8:59:30 GMT
Yeah well every post on here is a personal assessment isn't it? Just like yours was ... wouldn't you agree? Well mine was more of a counter-argument more than a personal assessment but essentially yes. H If Mainz offered to take over his contact and give us £8 million, do you think we'd turn it down?
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Post by Will_75 on May 11, 2017 9:07:06 GMT
10M Ill fly him there myself. Good riddance to a player with the mental faculties of a goldfish when on the pitch. It doesnt excuse Hughes who obviously signed him after the Porto friendly. But getting him off the wagebook will help greatly with the summer clear-out. But an extension to Stephen Ireland? Are we trying to field a team of over 30's next season? Grant/Given Bardsley Ryan (29...almost there) Cameron Johnson Afellay Adam Whelan Ireland Walters Crouch Fantastic - a combined age of 351 or 358 depending on choice of keeper. It does distress me than I am 10 years older than Charlie Adam. I'm carrying a lot less timber mind. cheekymatt71 - I thought the only reason for extending Ireland's contract was to give him time to get fit and presumably find another club? I'm not sure anyone is building a team around him. Could be wrong though.
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Post by RAF on May 11, 2017 9:07:33 GMT
Well mine was more of a counter-argument more than a personal assessment but essentially yes. H If Mainz offered to take over his contact and give us £8 million, do you think we'd turn it down? If it were Imbula I'd say absolutely no doubt. I suppose it depends on if what Hughes said about Bojan was true and there is still a future for him at Stoke and how important Hughes thinks he will be to his team next year. Personally I'd sell purely on the grounds he's not done anything of note whilst on loan, leading me to believe he will never be the same after his injury. Saying that I've seen some of Hughes's mental subs this season so fuck knows what he will do where Bojan is concerned. Perhaps the club would take it out of his hands if that were the case. I'm not convinced it's a money recouping exercise though. H
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Post by alster on May 11, 2017 9:12:38 GMT
Well mine was more of a counter-argument more than a personal assessment but essentially yes. H If Mainz offered to take over his contact and give us £8 million, do you think we'd turn it down? Its not going to happen but if it did we'd snap their hands off and rightly so.
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Post by FullerMagic on May 11, 2017 9:12:54 GMT
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Post by alster on May 11, 2017 9:14:54 GMT
Grant/Given Bardsley Ryan (29...almost there) Cameron Johnson Afellay Adam Whelan Ireland Walters Crouch Fantastic - a combined age of 351 or 358 depending on choice of keeper. It does distress me than I am 10 years older than Charlie Adam. I'm carrying a lot less timber mind. cheekymatt71 - I thought the only reason for extending Ireland's contract was to give him time to get fit and presumably find another club? I'm not sure anyone is building a team around him. Could be wrong though. I'm getting on for 20 years older than Charlie and I'm heavier but he still looks like he could be my older Brother.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 11, 2017 9:15:17 GMT
If Mainz offered to take over his contact and give us £8 million, do you think we'd turn it down? Its not going to happen but if it did we'd snap their hands off and rightly so. Exactly alster.
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Post by boskampsflaps on May 11, 2017 9:54:24 GMT
You can guarantee that IF he goes....Stoke will fail to put a 25% sell on clause in there, as per N'Zonzi. Simple. We always claim other teams are hard to deal with, when in all reality a glance in the mirror might suggest we are the actual culprits & in fact our transfer team is absolutely diabolical Not quite as easy as that though is it, we didn't have a leg to stand on if the other club said no.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on May 11, 2017 10:06:07 GMT
Grant/Given Bardsley Ryan (29...almost there) Cameron Johnson Afellay Adam Whelan Ireland Walters Crouch Fantastic - a combined age of 351 or 358 depending on choice of keeper. It does distress me than I am 10 years older than Charlie Adam. I'm carrying a lot less timber mind. cheekymatt71 - I thought the only reason for extending Ireland's contract was to give him time to get fit and presumably find another club? I'm not sure anyone is building a team around him. Could be wrong though.Great to see we are being so nice to older professionals and continuing to pay multi-millionaires an astronomical wage just to train at Clayton Wood and have time to find a new contract elsewhere. I dont hate Steven Ireland and he has been ok for us but that was 2 seasons ago and hes hardly a Stoke City legend. You can argue that the club is DOING THE RIGHT THING by these players, but its impacting our wage bill and stopping us from adding new talent to the squad and could put us in danger next year. Imagine if we got relegated next year and the club suffered just so Steven Ireland could keep his 3 Lamborhgini's? Football is a modern business and we cant afford sentimentality when wage levels are so crazy high.
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Post by Will_75 on May 11, 2017 10:37:01 GMT
how is it stopping us from adding new talent? presumably Coates think he's doing the right thing by Ireland, and thinks he can accommodate his wages within the overall budget. it's not like he's going to be named in the 25 or whatever then number is now.
do you seriously think that could be the difference between another mid-table finish (which is what will happen) and relegation?
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Post by cheekymatt71 on May 11, 2017 10:42:38 GMT
how is it stopping us from adding new talent? presumably Coates think he's doing the right thing by Ireland, and thinks he can accommodate his wages within the overall budget. it's not like he's going to be named in the 25 or whatever then number is now. do you seriously think that could be the difference between another mid-table finish (which is what will happen) and relegation? Probably not but we have way more pressing concerns than being nice to Steven Ireland. I liked how in the past we stood by injured players like Delap and Wilko. BUT Steven Ireland? Really? 6 months of salary will be around half a million in wages we could be using elsewhere. I want to see the terms of the contract before I judge to be honest. Didnt Wilko stay with us on zero pay and just to get fit? That sounds reasonable to me
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Post by Will_75 on May 11, 2017 10:47:29 GMT
i take all your points, and yes our treatment of Rory was both first class and paid massive dividends, but do we even know what wages SI has been offered?
i would be very surprised if his terms weren't massively reduced. he will know that a retained player is worth much more than one that has been released. he's only 30 and could be an outstanding championship player if he can get over his injuries.
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Post by FullerMagic on May 12, 2017 7:22:34 GMT
Nice want him too - but can only afford a loan (L'Equipe)
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Post by FullerMagic on May 12, 2017 7:34:42 GMT
08:33 Giannelli Imbula MH: It's fair to see with G that it hasn't quite worked out how anyone would want and it's fair to say if there was interest in G then maybe from other parties we would consider that. Obviously it would have to be suitable to ourselves and the player as well. We haven't had any interest in fairness as far as I'm aware. We would look at things but it would have to be something that was correct for ourselves.
The PL is a difficult league and some players will struggle - and it has been a frustration for him and ourselves that he hasn't progressed how we had hoped.
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Post by crownmeking on May 12, 2017 7:56:09 GMT
08:33 Giannelli ImbulaMH: It's fair to see with G that it hasn't quite worked out how anyone would want and it's fair to say if there was interest in G then maybe from other parties we would consider that. Obviously it would have to be suitable to ourselves and the player as well. We haven't had any interest in fairness as far as I'm aware. We would look at things but it would have to be something that was correct for ourselves.
The PL is a difficult league and some players will struggle - and it has been a frustration for him and ourselves that he hasn't progressed how we had hoped.
He is on his way out then. It will be interesting to see what we can get for him.
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Post by peterthornesboots on May 12, 2017 8:35:30 GMT
I think that multiple people are to blame for Imbula's failure.
He's got brilliant technical ability but he is absolutely useless when there is a quick transition or a need to defend. Perhaps he just isn't suited to the pace of English football where games can be end-to-end?
But having said that the way Hughes has just frozen him out is astonishing. I'm not saying that the kid should be starting every week but he can barely even make the bench. The way the manager has given up on his record signing is just stupid!
Then the scouting team - I guess the warning signs were there from his time at Porto. I assume we must have put the legwork in but completely misjudged his profile.
Overall if we can rob £10,000,000 out of someone who we clearly have no intention of playing then we should snap their hand off. That doesn't take away the fact that it's been a massive cock-up though!
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on May 12, 2017 8:42:37 GMT
I think that multiple people are to blame for Imbula's failure. He's got brilliant technical ability but he is absolutely useless when there is a quick transition or a need to defend. Perhaps he just isn't suited to the pace of English football where games can be end-to-end? But having said that the way Hughes has just frozen him out is astonishing. I'm not saying that the kid should be starting every week but he can barely even make the bench. The way the manager has given up on his record signing is just stupid! Then the scouting team - I guess the warning signs were there from his time at Porto. I assume we must have put the legwork in but completely misjudged his profile. Overall if we can rob £10,000,000 out of someone who we clearly have no intention of playing then we should snap their hand off. That doesn't take away the fact that it's been a massive cock-up though! Imbula is the only person to blame in his failure. He quite clearly has what it takes to be a fabulous players but chooses to alienate himself from the rest of the squad. He strolls around in training and his attitude stinks. How could the management team have known any of this before he signed?
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 8:53:29 GMT
If we are desperate to get rid he should be in the team for the last 2 games in the hope that he can play well and encourage a buyer.
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Post by Glory Hunter on May 12, 2017 9:03:33 GMT
It's hard to know what's for the best now. He is a valuable asset despite performances and we need to protect and maximise that as suitors arise in the Summer. Maybe it's best for everyone that he goes and fairly soon, though I still suspect we will see him performing like a world beater on a European stage somewhere and will wonder why he couldn't do that regularly for us.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 9:13:48 GMT
I think that multiple people are to blame for Imbula's failure. He's got brilliant technical ability but he is absolutely useless when there is a quick transition or a need to defend. Perhaps he just isn't suited to the pace of English football where games can be end-to-end? But having said that the way Hughes has just frozen him out is astonishing. I'm not saying that the kid should be starting every week but he can barely even make the bench. The way the manager has given up on his record signing is just stupid! Then the scouting team - I guess the warning signs were there from his time at Porto. I assume we must have put the legwork in but completely misjudged his profile. Overall if we can rob £10,000,000 out of someone who we clearly have no intention of playing then we should snap their hand off. That doesn't take away the fact that it's been a massive cock-up though! Imbula is the only person to blame in his failure. He quite clearly has what it takes to be a fabulous players but chooses to alienate himself from the rest of the squad. He strolls around in training and his attitude stinks. How could the management team have known any of this before he signed? I agree 100% that Imbula is the one to blame for him bro g a failure but surely if you're signing a player for massive money you do a bit of a background check on his attitude? It didn't take much digging to find out that the problems he's had here were there at his previous club Porto and the management team have to take massive responsibility for bringing him here in the first place.
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Post by jimmygscfc on May 12, 2017 9:18:56 GMT
Nice want him too - but can only afford a loan (L'Equipe) Getting a fat loan fee and some of his wages taken off our hands may be the only option available to us.
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Post by mrred on May 12, 2017 9:26:03 GMT
If we are desperate to get rid he should be in the team for the last 2 games in the hope that he can play well and encourage a buyer. I really don't think that's how clubs make their decisions...
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Post by djduncanjames on May 12, 2017 9:49:35 GMT
Was anyone at the famous 'Porto friendly'?! There must be a short match report somewhere, just wondering if Imbula was singled out for special mention I streamed it, and so did my dad at a different location. And we spoke at half time and full time about how dominant Imbula was... True Story!
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Post by crapslinger on May 12, 2017 10:05:57 GMT
I think that multiple people are to blame for Imbula's failure. He's got brilliant technical ability but he is absolutely useless when there is a quick transition or a need to defend. Perhaps he just isn't suited to the pace of English football where games can be end-to-end? But having said that the way Hughes has just frozen him out is astonishing. I'm not saying that the kid should be starting every week but he can barely even make the bench. The way the manager has given up on his record signing is just stupid! Then the scouting team - I guess the warning signs were there from his time at Porto. I assume we must have put the legwork in but completely misjudged his profile. Overall if we can rob £10,000,000 out of someone who we clearly have no intention of playing then we should snap their hand off. That doesn't take away the fact that it's been a massive cock-up though! Imbula is the only person to blame in his failure. He quite clearly has what it takes to be a fabulous players but chooses to alienate himself from the rest of the squad. He strolls around in training and his attitude stinks. How could the management team have known any of this before he signed? Are you trying to imply that the official news about how hard he was training put out by club representatives was false , you would have thought that we as a club would have carried out due diligence before spunking £18m + on a lazy petulant waste of feckin time, if not all involved in this fiasco should be sacked for gross incompetence.
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Post by liamo on May 12, 2017 10:18:00 GMT
Bit of a fuck up all round really..
We broke our fee record on a player that wasn't scouted properly, there's no way something like "can't defend" doesn't show up after watching him just a handful of times
Some transfers just don't work out for seemingly no reason sometimes, but surely this one could have been prevented? It's not about adjusting to the leagues pace, he lacks a core quality that was needed to fill the role we bought him for.. He can't and doesn't want to defend.. what did we think we were buying?
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Post by lordb on May 12, 2017 10:21:01 GMT
If you were a manager and realised a signing was a mistake and you hadn't managed to get rid in the transfer window why would you play the player? I wouldn't. If a players not right you tell them sorry we need to move you on. There has to be criticism of Hughes judgement for spending so much on a player who had flopped however I don't understand the critiscm of Hughes treatment of Imbula after the Wolves game. That was last chance for the player and he blew it. Seen plenty of managers persist with bad signings because they refuse to accept they made a mistake signing them in the first place. That's worse management in my view.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 10:21:59 GMT
If we are desperate to get rid he should be in the team for the last 2 games in the hope that he can play well and encourage a buyer. I really don't think that's how clubs make their decisions... It seems like we do.
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Post by FullerMagic on May 12, 2017 10:23:36 GMT
I'd like to know how he was used by Bielsa at Marseille because surely that'd be your template. Isn't he notoriously keen on pressing and working hard and stuff? He seemed to get a tune out of him in that one eye-catching season there.
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