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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 17:46:10 GMT
When Pulis was here, we had one very poor season (2011/12) where there was no danger of relegation, but sacking would have been extremely harsh after he'd guided us to the cup final the year before. After another bad year that followed, when there was a real danger of relegation, and the sacking was probably a fair one. Sparky's having his version of the former now. There's no guarantee which way next season will go- the summer could change things massively- and so based on how Coates handled a similar issue with Pulis, I can't see him pulling the trigger on Hughes for a good while yet. Nor should he. For me, Sparky's previous record has earnt him the right to sort things out this summer. If he can't do that and we're continuing to regress by next autumn then I think it would be fair to call time. So in summary. Give him time to sort out a mess entirely of his own making? Give him the Summer and presumably significant transfer funds. Then if it doesn't work out sack him in the Autumn. Mmmm!
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 5, 2017 17:49:18 GMT
When Pulis was here, we had one very poor season (2011/12) where there was no danger of relegation, but sacking would have been extremely harsh after he'd guided us to the cup final the year before. After another bad year that followed, when there was a real danger of relegation, and the sacking was probably a fair one. Sparky's having his version of the former now. There's no guarantee which way next season will go- the summer could change things massively- and so based on how Coates handled a similar issue with Pulis, I can't see him pulling the trigger on Hughes for a good while yet. Nor should he. For me, Sparky's previous record has earnt him the right to sort things out this summer. If he can't do that and we're continuing to regress by next autumn then I think it would be fair to call time. I think the difference between the Pulis demise and Hughes, TD is that the fans have seemingly turned in that first full bad season of Hughes. If not with their feet then certainly with their lack of forgiveness. I said weeks ago that people were mightily pissed off and they are. Part of it is Hughes being a victim of his own early success, part of it is the unseemly amount of thrapings by the big and not so big boys and part of it is that really, this 'first bad season' can be traced well back into last season as well. I'm with you, I think he's done enough still to deserve another chance but I notice again today the lack of any Coates rallying cry to support his man and it's the last great power that fans have. Once you truly lose them there's only one conclusion. I wouldn't be at all stunned to see an amicable parting of the ways if we bumble our way through the rest of the season in the same vein.
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Post by Trouserdog on Apr 5, 2017 17:56:47 GMT
When Pulis was here, we had one very poor season (2011/12) where there was no danger of relegation, but sacking would have been extremely harsh after he'd guided us to the cup final the year before. After another bad year that followed, when there was a real danger of relegation, and the sacking was probably a fair one. Sparky's having his version of the former now. There's no guarantee which way next season will go- the summer could change things massively- and so based on how Coates handled a similar issue with Pulis, I can't see him pulling the trigger on Hughes for a good while yet. Nor should he. For me, Sparky's previous record has earnt him the right to sort things out this summer. If he can't do that and we're continuing to regress by next autumn then I think it would be fair to call time. So in summary. Give him time to sort out a mess entirely of his own making? Give him the Summer and presumably significant transfer funds. Then if it doesn't work out sack him in the Autumn. Mmmm! I'm not denying that he's fucked up this season, but I just don't think it's fair that after THREE good seasons, we're all after his blood after ONE bad one! Why does a proven good manager have to pay with his job the first time things don't go to plan? There's this assumption that it's absolutely impossible for him to turn this round, which I simply don't agree with.
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Post by Trouserdog on Apr 5, 2017 18:00:02 GMT
When Pulis was here, we had one very poor season (2011/12) where there was no danger of relegation, but sacking would have been extremely harsh after he'd guided us to the cup final the year before. After another bad year that followed, when there was a real danger of relegation, and the sacking was probably a fair one. Sparky's having his version of the former now. There's no guarantee which way next season will go- the summer could change things massively- and so based on how Coates handled a similar issue with Pulis, I can't see him pulling the trigger on Hughes for a good while yet. Nor should he. For me, Sparky's previous record has earnt him the right to sort things out this summer. If he can't do that and we're continuing to regress by next autumn then I think it would be fair to call time. I think the difference between the Pulis demise and Hughes, TD is that the fans have seemingly turned in that first full bad season of Hughes. If not with their feet then certainly with their lack of forgiveness. I said weeks ago that people were mightily pissed off and they are. Part of it is Hughes being a victim of his own early success, part of it is the unseemly amount of thrapings by the big and not so big boys and part of it is that really, this 'first bad season' can be traced well back into last season as well. I'm with you, I think he's done enough still to deserve another chance but I notice again today the lack of any Coates rallying cry to support his man and it's the last great power that fans have. Once you truly lose them there's only one conclusion. I wouldn't be at all stunned to see an amicable parting of the ways if we bumble our way through the rest of the season in the same vein. Neither would I, given how impatient and unforgiving modern football fans seem to be. I just hope that the people who have been baying for blood for the last six months, as well as the more recent agitators, realise that it could be a case of out of the frying pan into the fire. To the outside world it would be an insanely harsh sacking, and if another club did the same to their manager I'd probably think the ungrateful cunts deserved to go down.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 18:00:21 GMT
Interesting results so far - thought it'd be closer. He lost the crowd last night. The one's that go away at least. The persistent booing at the end was the worst I've heard in a long while. We have one of the most fickle crowds in football, I've heard some horrendous things said about our players and managers past and present at games, that is one of the last places I'd be looking for advice. If the players and the chairman still have confidence in Hughes that is all that matters for me. I fully expect him to be here next season, it would take a truly terrible run on results from now until the end of the season for that to change. I know we are in bad form and it's painful at times but there is a lot to be said for stability.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 18:05:40 GMT
So in summary. Give him time to sort out a mess entirely of his own making? Give him the Summer and presumably significant transfer funds. Then if it doesn't work out sack him in the Autumn. Mmmm! I'm not denying that he's fucked up this season, but I just don't think it's fair that after THREE good seasons, we're all after his blood after ONE bad one! Why does a proven good manager have to pay with his job the first time things don't go to plan? There's this assumption that it's absolutely impossible for him to turn this round, which I simply don't agree with. I honestly think that we were very fortunate to finish ninth last season. The football after the Semi-final cup exit was pretty poor fayre. Unfortunately finishing ninth bred complacency in the management team. You simply cannot go into a new season playing so few pre season games especially with the way we've started seasons under Hughes. For me mate he's made too many mistakes for an experienced manager. His signings are poor and his tactics /substitutions baffling. There is absolutely no evidence he can turn it around and as soon as the last game his finished we should tell him his services are no longer required. If he stays I really fear for us.
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Post by robwahlmann on Apr 5, 2017 18:20:24 GMT
Would give him to the end of the season, but needs to make things right to stay. Right now I feel the mood of most supporters are dropping game by game! Victories over Liverpool and Hull will probably swing it in the right direction again!
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Post by mrred on Apr 5, 2017 18:25:12 GMT
Are people forgetting the latter half on the 15/16 season? We we're complete toilet then too. This isn't just one bad season.
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Post by Titan Uranus on Apr 5, 2017 18:29:02 GMT
So in summary. Give him time to sort out a mess entirely of his own making? Give him the Summer and presumably significant transfer funds. Then if it doesn't work out sack him in the Autumn. Mmmm! I'm not denying that he's fucked up this season, but I just don't think it's fair that after THREE good seasons, we're all after his blood after ONE bad one! Why does a proven good manager have to pay with his job the first time things don't go to plan? There's this assumption that it's absolutely impossible for him to turn this round, which I simply don't agree with. Top reply trousers... We've got some right knicker wetters in the ranks these days.
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 5, 2017 18:33:00 GMT
I'm not denying that he's fucked up this season, but I just don't think it's fair that after THREE good seasons, we're all after his blood after ONE bad one! Why does a proven good manager have to pay with his job the first time things don't go to plan? There's this assumption that it's absolutely impossible for him to turn this round, which I simply don't agree with. I honestly think that we were very fortunate to finish ninth last season. The football after the Semi-final cup exit was pretty poor fayre. Unfortunately finishing ninth bred complacency in the management team. You simply cannot go into a new season playing so few pre season games especially with the way we've started seasons under Hughes. For me mate he's made too many mistakes for an experienced manager. His signings are poor and his tactics /substitutions baffling. There is absolutely no evidence he can turn it around and as soon as the last game his finished we should tell him his services are no longer required. If he stays I really fear for us. We were ravaged by injuries mate, finishing 9th was an achievement last season. This season.... no excuses.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Apr 5, 2017 18:39:54 GMT
I honestly think that we were very fortunate to finish ninth last season. The football after the Semi-final cup exit was pretty poor fayre. Unfortunately finishing ninth bred complacency in the management team. You simply cannot go into a new season playing so few pre season games especially with the way we've started seasons under Hughes. For me mate he's made too many mistakes for an experienced manager. His signings are poor and his tactics /substitutions baffling. There is absolutely no evidence he can turn it around and as soon as the last game his finished we should tell him his services are no longer required. If he stays I really fear for us. We were ravaged by injuries mate, finishing 9th was an achievement last season. This season.... no excuses. No one is laughing at Leicester now - it is always a gamble and can work both ways. However if the trend continues it would be madness to do nowt and I see no signs that he is able to change it - and I hope that I am wrong, same as I was with Pulis but accepted he couldn't and it had gone nasty behind the scenes then and it smells similar now
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Post by Trouserdog on Apr 5, 2017 18:46:40 GMT
I'm not denying that he's fucked up this season, but I just don't think it's fair that after THREE good seasons, we're all after his blood after ONE bad one! Why does a proven good manager have to pay with his job the first time things don't go to plan? There's this assumption that it's absolutely impossible for him to turn this round, which I simply don't agree with. I honestly think that we were very fortunate to finish ninth last season. The football after the Semi-final cup exit was pretty poor fayre. Unfortunately finishing ninth bred complacency in the management team. You simply cannot go into a new season playing so few pre season games especially with the way we've started seasons under Hughes. For me mate he's made too many mistakes for an experienced manager. His signings are poor and his tactics /substitutions baffling. There is absolutely no evidence he can turn it around and as soon as the last game his finished we should tell him his services are no longer required. If he stays I really fear for us. Not strictly true though is it, because he took Pulis's pigs ear of a squad and turned that around far quicker than any of us thought he would! This is a pig's ear of his own making, but one thing I've always liked about Hughes is that he tries different things. True, he needs to settle on something now, but I don't believe that he's in some sort of tactical cul-de-sac from which there's no escape. He could still hit on something that works. We can say we were fortunate to finish 9th, but the fact is that we did- with a shockingly unlucky injury record too. I understand that people are pissed off at the moment- I am too, but I don't think it's fair to NOT give him the chance to rectify his mistakes after three 9th place finishes.
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Post by jezzascfc on Apr 5, 2017 19:03:48 GMT
TD - I take your point and we are far too quick, in this modern world of immediate gratification, to pull the trigger when patience is required.
However, to take a big hit on transfer fees paid and start afresh (which is what most think is needed this summer), to my mind, needs a new man at the helm to do it. Would Les really admit he has got it so badly wrong and offload a truckload of HIS signings at "fire sale" prices? If he does admit he has blown mega-millions, why would the board then blithely give him carte blanche to blow even more in the hope he gets it right this time? I have severe reservations about our doing so and it is neither my job to oversee the club's finances (Scholes) nor my money he would be spending (Coates). He sorted out Pulis' mess, to a certain extent, but then went and created a potentially even bigger one of his own design!
It may be that the club's hierarchy should dictate the terms on which he is to stay. I feel, in the summer, if given a reprieve, he needs to be told in no uncertain terms to try to work with the big money signings he has made and get them Stoke fit, physically and mentally, as he will not be given another huge war chest to blow if he offloads them all on the cheap. So bring back and reintegrate Bojan and Joselu, rehabilitate Imbula and put Shaqiri on a fitness regime which involves yoga, pilates and massage, not 300lb leg presses and squats!! I'd also look to blood some of our impressive youngsters, to see if they have got what it takes to make the step up. Bolster the squad at full back and defensive midfield and get back to 4-2-3-1, playing brave attacking football - yeah, I know!!
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Post by Titan Uranus on Apr 5, 2017 19:07:24 GMT
TD - I take your point and we are far too quick, in this modern world of immediate gratification, to pull the trigger when patience is required. However, to take a big hit on transfer fees paid and start afresh (which is what most think is needed this summer), to my mind, needs a new man at the helm to do it. Would Les really admit he has got it so badly wrong and offload a truckload of HIS signings at "fire sale" prices? If he does admit he has blown mega-millions, why would the board then blithely give him carte blanche to blow even more in the hope he gets it right this time? I have severe reservations about our doing so and it is neither my job to oversee the club's finances (Scholes) nor my money he would be spending (Coates). He sorted out Pulis' mess, to a certain extent, but then went and created a potentially even bigger one of his own design! It may be that the club's hierarchy should dictate the terms on which he is to stay. I feel, in the summer, if given a reprieve, he needs to be told in no uncertain terms to try to work with the big money signings he has made and get them Stoke fit, physically and mentally, as he will not be given another huge war chest to blow if he offloads them all on the cheap. So bring back and reintegrate Bojan and Joselu, rehabilitate Imbula and put Shaqiri on a fitness regime which involves yoga, pilates and massage, not 300lb leg presses and squats!! I'd also look to blood some of our impressive youngsters, to see if they have got what it takes to make the step up. Bolster the squad at full back and defensive midfield and get back to 4-2-3-1, playing brave attacking football - yeah, I know!! I think your last paragraph will be exactly what happens.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Apr 5, 2017 19:07:51 GMT
Hughes in.
Football not at its best but I think Hughes can turn it round. I'm confident that after having spent money on marquee signings that haven't worked out the focus this summer will be on younger, hungrier players that will provide the urgency and pace we've been lacking for a few months now. I think the benefit of keeping Hughes in this regard is that we have some continuity as a club.
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Post by buxtonpotter on Apr 5, 2017 19:12:34 GMT
Hughes in. Football not at its best but I think Hughes can turn it round. I'm confident that after having spent money on marquee signings that haven't worked out the focus this summer will be on younger, hungrier players that will provide the urgency and pace we've been lacking for a few months now. I think the benefit of keeping Hughes in this regard is that we have some continuity as a club. out of interest what gives you that confidence?
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Apr 5, 2017 19:14:09 GMT
Hughes to stay. See his contract out.
I don't subscribe to the view that we're in a mess. Even in recent weeks we've had cracking performances against Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea. He's not perfect, gets stuff wrong but it's not for want of trying and most of the wrong calls he makes can only be judged in hindsight. It's not managerial neglect or daftery imo.
He's a credible fit for us and hopefully still has the cachet to attract these funky players.
He was given a massive task to alter the ethos/philosophy of Stoke whilst keeping to the remit of sustainability. He has delivered on that in quick sharp time while others who have tried similar have failed spectacularly {Pardew at Palace, Bilic West Ham, Karanka Middlesboro, maybe even Van Gaal etc etc}. For me this season has been about trying to get a better balance, adding more of the nuts and bolts etc, it hasn't always been pretty but other than a handful of games, for me we've done ok this season. I'll allow him and his team that without feeling the need to sack or boo him.
KTF
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Post by baltipiesmuggler on Apr 5, 2017 19:17:49 GMT
Needs to go at the end of the season. This isn't some run of 6 months, it's over a year of regression.
Thanks to him for a decent enough job done overall but no time for sentiment.
Lord knows who we'll be able to bring in and God knows what they do with our mess of a squad.
Sent from my SM-G928F using proboards
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 5, 2017 19:26:06 GMT
Initially I liked what he was trying to achieve on the whole, even if I didn't agree with his outdated tica-taca philosophy. However since the Liverpool defeat in 2016 it's gone from bad to worse. We aren't currently safe , yet we really should be and he appears generally poor in his transfer dealing when spending above 5 million. We need a manager that can either inspire the expensive players to perform ( if that's possible ) and or get in players in this financial bracket who can. I can't see that Hughes is that man I'm afraid. I'll be happy to be proved wrong but I o not think I am.
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Post by Old School Stokie on Apr 5, 2017 19:36:35 GMT
Let's see what happens pre season to end of september - that should give him 6 or 7 games - in total from February 2016 that would be about 60 games - unless we are pushing top ten then he must go with his Welsh non achieving management team. I still favour Moyes as a replacement. There's no point in calling for Hughes out unless there is. A firm favourite replacement. If not Moyes then Brandon Rogers
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Post by scfconnor on Apr 5, 2017 19:36:51 GMT
Been leaning towards him leaving after the Wolves game. Deffo in the out camp now.
I'd have Silva from Hull, won 3 trophies with three different teams in about 5 years.
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Post by Old School Stokie on Apr 5, 2017 19:49:42 GMT
Martin O'Neill could be a good replacement - there are a lot of managers who would like to manage under the Coates regime as oppose to some international tyrant to corporation like the Liverpool exec. We are in a very good position in that respect
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Post by Old School Stokie on Apr 5, 2017 19:52:43 GMT
Not many oatcake experts offering an opinion n quality replacements. Great to criticise but useless without a solution boys Or should I say know alls
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Apr 5, 2017 19:53:17 GMT
Let's see what happens pre season to end of september - that should give him 6 or 7 games - in total from February 2016 that would be about 60 games - unless we are pushing top ten then he must go with his Welsh non achieving management team. I still favour Moyes as a replacement. There's no point in calling for Hughes out unless there is. A firm favourite replacement. If not Moyes then Brandon Rogers Moyes, really? He's been a disaster ever since he left Everton and has failed abysmally in his last 3 jobs. He's lost the hunger and is too old to regain it, he knows his managerial career is on a downward trajectory and he hasn't got the fight left in him to turn it around. Yesterday's man. I'd like Rodgers but I'm not sure he'd leave winning easy trophies and playing in the Champions League with Celtic for us. I think he'd be eyeing someone like West Ham who are a bit bigger than us with more potential.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 19:53:32 GMT
I'm not denying that he's fucked up this season, but I just don't think it's fair that after THREE good seasons, we're all after his blood after ONE bad one! Why does a proven good manager have to pay with his job the first time things don't go to plan? There's this assumption that it's absolutely impossible for him to turn this round, which I simply don't agree with. Top reply trousers... We've got some right knicker wetters in the ranks these days. Knicker wetter right up there with Pulis hating Wankstain as my favourite phrase. Most on here are having a reasoned debate about the merits of the current manager. Thanks for joining in.
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 5, 2017 19:54:57 GMT
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Post by Titan Uranus on Apr 5, 2017 19:57:56 GMT
Top reply trousers... We've got some right knicker wetters in the ranks these days. Knicker wetter right up there with Pulis hating Wankstain as my favourite phrase. Most on here are having a reasoned debate about the merits of the current manager. Thanks for joining in. What's your point greenhoff?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 20:03:15 GMT
Knicker wetter right up there with Pulis hating Wankstain as my favourite phrase. Most on here are having a reasoned debate about the merits of the current manager. Thanks for joining in. What's your point greenhoff? Because it's not knicker wetting is it? Many very reasoned posters are questioning Hughes' position. There's been some great debate on here. Of course there is extreme arguments on both sides but for the most part it's what makes a good message board. To dismiss the valid arguments made against the management team as knicker wetting is the sort of complacency that may cost us our top flight status.
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Post by Titan Uranus on Apr 5, 2017 20:08:39 GMT
What's your point greenhoff? Because it's not knicker wetting is it? Many very reasoned posters are questioning Hughes' position. There's been some great debate on here. Of course there is extreme arguments on both sides but for the most part it's what makes a good message board. To dismiss the valid arguments made against the management team as knicker wetting is the sort of complacency that may cost us our top flight status. There is debate. There is discussion. There is difference of opinion. To call for the head of a manager who has delivered three top ten positions and is comfortably in mid-table now is in my mind "knicker wetting"
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Post by PotteringThrough on Apr 5, 2017 21:58:49 GMT
Hughes in. Football not at its best but I think Hughes can turn it round. I'm confident that after having spent money on marquee signings that haven't worked out the focus this summer will be on younger, hungrier players that will provide the urgency and pace we've been lacking for a few months now. I think the benefit of keeping Hughes in this regard is that we have some continuity as a club. out of interest what gives you that confidence? Just my opinion. No reason to be confident that's what will happen but it's what I think would be for the best. I think to be fair he does try and change things and be adaptable. It's not paying off at the moment but at least he is making changes. On the signings front I think he is still trusted somewhat and if required money would be made available but I would like to think that the club and those involved in the transfers recognise we need to change our plan a little bit and get some pace back in the squad.
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