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Post by bathstoke on Mar 21, 2017 8:11:54 GMT
A hugely complex character. Yes, he was a murdering bastard in his youth. Yeah, Come on everybody, we've all done things we're not proud of in our youth. Now get with the program
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Post by yeokel on Mar 21, 2017 8:22:02 GMT
It's all very well saying it's thanks to the likes of him and Paisley that the peace process has held to a large extent, but if it hadn't been for murderous scum like the two of them fanning the flames, the NI troubles may not have grown to anything like the level they did during the worst of it.
Murderers the pair of them, and I look forward to the day Adams joins them.
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 21, 2017 8:24:24 GMT
A hugely complex character. Yes, he was a murdering bastard in his youth - and of course he remains responsible for those murders long after they happened. On the other hand, without him, the (relative) peace in Northern Ireland that we have now would probably not have happened and Sinn Fein would still have been pursuing their ambitions with a gun rather than with the ballot box and thousands more people would have died. I think Colin Parry (the father of Tim, killed in the Warrington bombings) has made a lot of sense in his comments this morning. He doesn't forgive McGuinness for his terrorism during the troubles but he respects his efforts for the peace process in his later years. Ending terrorism is often a messy process requiring huge compromise, thankfully McGuinness, Sinn Fein, Paisley and the Unionist community eventually recognised this. Very well put.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 21, 2017 8:43:35 GMT
Sinn Fein didn't have to use McGuinness as chief negotiator in the peace process. It was a deliberately provocative act.
They bombed their way to the the negotiating table and murdered their way to a place in Government.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 21, 2017 9:18:51 GMT
Well said Norman
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Post by auntiegeorge on Mar 21, 2017 9:24:26 GMT
Damn. International Happiness Day should have been TODAY not yesterday.
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Post by redstriper on Mar 21, 2017 9:46:32 GMT
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the coming days.
We only have half the story imo and we may get some more facts now that he's gone.
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Post by redstriper on Mar 21, 2017 9:58:09 GMT
Piers Morgan likening the murderous piece of filth to Nelson Mandella. is there a bigger wanker on the planet than this man ?
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Post by salopstick on Mar 21, 2017 10:38:06 GMT
In court this week is a 75 year old man accused of murder. He is an ex soldier and the case is a historic crime in NI to decide wether the killing was lawful in the eyes of the rules of engagement at the time.
I don't condone terrorism and I won't condone soldiers breaking the correct rules of engagement but to me Good Friday is so ridiculously and immorally one sided that for any good McGuinness may have done he should be remembered for his
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Post by Waggy on Mar 21, 2017 10:54:01 GMT
Piers Morgan likening the murderous piece of filth to Nelson Mandella. is there a bigger wanker on the planet than this man ? Yes Gerry Adams
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 21, 2017 11:36:06 GMT
It's amazing been watching all the news bulletins on McGuinness as I'm working from home due to a broken ankle and not a single one of the ungrateful bastards have credited Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell with their role in the peace negotiations, more MSM bias
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Post by thevoid on Mar 21, 2017 11:40:16 GMT
In memory of Bobby Sands, they're not bothering with a buffet at the wake.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Mar 21, 2017 12:18:40 GMT
Piers Morgan likening the murderous piece of filth to Nelson Mandella. It's a shame that fat phone hacking cunt hasn't gone along with him.
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Mar 21, 2017 12:33:33 GMT
In memory of Bobby Sands, they're not bothering with a buffet at the wake. Perhaps staging a 'Dirty Protest' in the Chapel of Rest would be more apposite?....
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Post by dutchstokie on Mar 21, 2017 12:39:58 GMT
Piers Morgan likening the murderous piece of filth to Nelson Mandella. Mandela and McGuiness are as both as bad as each other
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 12:41:43 GMT
I have already thought about going the other way but that would confirm it. Waggy. Are we talking politics here?
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Post by Will_75 on Mar 21, 2017 13:50:10 GMT
Just died...RIP....ROT IN PERGATORY you murdering piece of filth... Murdering fenian terrorist bastard, may he burn in hell with the rest of the IRA, Gerry Adams soon to follow hopefully. did you need to use the work Fenian, or did you particularly want to highlight your ignorant prejudice?
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Post by Will_75 on Mar 21, 2017 13:51:59 GMT
Piers Morgan likening the murderous piece of filth to Nelson Mandella. Mandela and McGuiness are as both as bad as each other say what?
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Post by Will_75 on Mar 21, 2017 13:53:04 GMT
Sinn Fein didn't have to use McGuinness as chief negotiator in the peace process. It was a deliberately provocative act. They bombed their way to the the negotiating table and murdered their way to a place in Government. He was about the only person you could bring the IRA with him. Anyone else would have been dismissed as a sell out.
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Post by bubbleblower on Mar 21, 2017 14:35:46 GMT
Murdering twat
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Post by dutchstokie on Mar 21, 2017 15:05:01 GMT
Mandela and McGuiness are as both as bad as each other say what? The late 50s and early 60s saw Mandela sanction and carry out some of the worst crimes imaginable. Go have a read, it's all there on t'interweb It just grates my gears when people start to wave the 'freedom fighter banner without learning their history and learning about what he did One of the biggest murderers to walk the earth
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 15:53:27 GMT
The old adage, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist...
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 21, 2017 16:09:06 GMT
Sinn Fein didn't have to use McGuinness as chief negotiator in the peace process. It was a deliberately provocative act. They bombed their way to the the negotiating table and murdered their way to a place in Government. He was about the only person you could bring the IRA with him. Anyone else would have been dismissed as a sell out. He could have been standing in the shadows with a more neutral figure at the table. Their point was to bomb their way into a deal and he took the plaudits for that and beyond. My mate from Enniskillen doesn't really give a shit if he was more diplomatic in later life. Isn't it like me starting a fight a footie match where some are killed many are injured and all are scared. I then help the police to sort out the mess? It makes me laugh. Blair, Mandelson et al on the radio giving it the "although I don't condone his early life, the Martin I knew was dedicated to peace' bollocks. I wonder if Blair would say "I'm well aware of Jimmy Saville's history but when I met him he never talked about molesting underage kids it was all about running marathons for charity which I think we should applaud".
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Post by capto on Mar 21, 2017 16:11:19 GMT
The late 50s and early 60s saw Mandela sanction and carry out some of the worst crimes imaginable. Go have a read, it's all there on t'interweb It just grates my gears when people start to wave the 'freedom fighter banner without learning their history and learning about what he did One of the biggest murderers to walk the earth You would defend apartheid??? you are white, so if you lived in South Africa, you would have supported and took part in apatheid against blacks? you would not recognise blacks in south africa to be part of the political process? is the apartheid regime 'one of the biggest murderers to walk the earth'? Match of the Day: fighting the corner of the under dog and the small clubs since 1964
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Post by capto on Mar 21, 2017 16:15:23 GMT
He was about the only person you could bring the IRA with him. Anyone else would have been dismissed as a sell out. He could have been standing in the shadows with a more neutral figure at the table. Their point was to bomb their way into a deal and he took the plaudits for that and beyond. My mate from Enniskillen doesn't really give a shit if he was more diplomatic in later life. Isn't it like me starting a fight a footie match where some are killed many are injured and all are scared. I then help the police to sort out the mess? It makes me laugh. Blair, Mandelson et al on the radio giving it the "although I don't condone his early life, the Martin I knew was dedicated to peace' bollocks. I wonder if Blair would say "I'm well aware of Jimmy Saville's history but when I met him he never talked about molesting underage kids it was all about running marathons for charity which I think we should applaud". are you saying that in northern ireland, the Catholics had equal treatment politically & economically? the peace marches of the late '60's were to try and get equal treatment? were the catholics listened to? so what could they do - accept that they would always be second class citizens or try and do something about it? Match of the Day: fighting the corner of the under dog and the small clubs since 1964
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 21, 2017 16:30:08 GMT
He could have been standing in the shadows with a more neutral figure at the table. Their point was to bomb their way into a deal and he took the plaudits for that and beyond. My mate from Enniskillen doesn't really give a shit if he was more diplomatic in later life. Isn't it like me starting a fight a footie match where some are killed many are injured and all are scared. I then help the police to sort out the mess? It makes me laugh. Blair, Mandelson et al on the radio giving it the "although I don't condone his early life, the Martin I knew was dedicated to peace' bollocks. I wonder if Blair would say "I'm well aware of Jimmy Saville's history but when I met him he never talked about molesting underage kids it was all about running marathons for charity which I think we should applaud". are you saying that in northern ireland, the Catholics had equal treatment politically & economically? the peace marches of the late '60's were to try and get equal treatment? were the catholics listened to? so what could they do - accept that they would always be second class citizens or try and do something about it? Match of the Day: fighting the corner of the under dog and the small clubs since 1964 So are you applauding Saville's charity work?
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Post by Cast no shadow on Mar 21, 2017 16:37:07 GMT
Rot you horrible murdering bastard
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 16:39:31 GMT
He was about the only person you could bring the IRA with him. Anyone else would have been dismissed as a sell out. He could have been standing in the shadows with a more neutral figure at the table. Their point was to bomb their way into a deal and he took the plaudits for that and beyond. My mate from Enniskillen doesn't really give a shit if he was more diplomatic in later life. Isn't it like me starting a fight a footie match where some are killed many are injured and all are scared. I then help the police to sort out the mess?It makes me laugh. Blair, Mandelson et al on the radio giving it the "although I don't condone his early life, the Martin I knew was dedicated to peace' bollocks. I wonder if Blair would say "I'm well aware of Jimmy Saville's history but when I met him he never talked about molesting underage kids it was all about running marathons for charity which I think we should applaud". That would be a good analogy if the football match in question had actually started in the Early 17th century and the fighting had been happening on and off for 400 odd years with all the history and anger on both sides built up along the way . I don't condone any of his actions but ultimately it took massive will on ALL sides to make the peace process happened. We should never forgot a single one of those who died during the conflict but we should remember all those who have been saved since the Good Friday Agreement......
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 21, 2017 16:46:25 GMT
He could have been standing in the shadows with a more neutral figure at the table. Their point was to bomb their way into a deal and he took the plaudits for that and beyond. My mate from Enniskillen doesn't really give a shit if he was more diplomatic in later life. Isn't it like me starting a fight a footie match where some are killed many are injured and all are scared. I then help the police to sort out the mess?It makes me laugh. Blair, Mandelson et al on the radio giving it the "although I don't condone his early life, the Martin I knew was dedicated to peace' bollocks. I wonder if Blair would say "I'm well aware of Jimmy Saville's history but when I met him he never talked about molesting underage kids it was all about running marathons for charity which I think we should applaud". That would be a good analogy if the football match in question had actually started in the Early 17th century and the fighting had been happening on and off for 400 odd years with all the history and anger on both sides built up along the way . I don't condone any of his actions but ultimately it took massive will on ALL sides to make the peace process happened. We should never forgot a single one of those who died during the conflict but we should remember all those who have been saved since the Good Friday Agreement...... You can't go back to the 17th century when discussing the actions of Martin McGuinness. EDIT: You can only go back to the actions of Martin McGuinness when discussing the actions of Martin McGuinness.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 17:10:05 GMT
That would be a good analogy if the football match in question had actually started in the Early 17th century and the fighting had been happening on and off for 400 odd years with all the history and anger on both sides built up along the way . I don't condone any of his actions but ultimately it took massive will on ALL sides to make the peace process happened. We should never forgot a single one of those who died during the conflict but we should remember all those who have been saved since the Good Friday Agreement...... You can't go back to the 17th century when discussing the actions of Martin McGuinness. I was being a bit facetious but the point is there's 100's years of history and bad blood that brought us to the situation in the late 60's/early 70's and everything that's happened subsequently. Would you have preferred for him to stay with the status quo and the ceasefire and peace deal not to have happened? It's particularly pertinent because it's close to home, yet people will think nothing of donning a Che Guevara t-shirt. As someone said one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter....
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