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Post by shrewspotter on Jan 27, 2017 11:07:05 GMT
I think he'd be fine, his pace allows him that recovery time. If we want to push on we need better full backs, Everton and Soton have full backs that can defend and attack and that's who we need to be emulating. Johnson has been poor going forward for us and is getting iffy at the back. Pieters has never been good going forward. And I know their primary job is to defend but the width in our side comes from the full backs and we have two that are poor going forward. It needs to change. I have to agreee here great full backs of old like Dixon and Des Walker could defend but also offered that speedy attacking flair something Johnson used to have, although playing in a three at the back seems to have stunted that element of his game and his attacking side was always better than his defensive one. We need younger more mobile fullbacks it's obvious how Tottenham have done well with it I think other teams are going this way to. Finding them though that's another story... Des Walker was a Centre Half mate...........sorry to piss on your chips
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Post by realstokebloke on Jan 27, 2017 11:10:01 GMT
leoncort is right.
With the TitH, I totally gave up on ever getting decent full backs in. His inane experiments trying to reinvent established and accomplished* CBs such as Huth and Woodgate as FBs were just painful and were more akin to a novel by Mary Shelley than to a progressive aspiring PL manager developing talent. Then, having inherited the nearest thing we had to a 'proper FB', Hoefkens, was cold shouldered & shipped out due to having kids. What was that about?
But that was Tone and we all knew that he would never change from four (preferably five) big units at the back, two of which just happened to be nearer the touchlines.
All that said, I am surprised that in his own reinvention of us as a football team, for me, Sparky hasn't addressed this so far.
And even now, our FBs would surely only rate as 'competent' in the traditional sense - which, is missing the opportunity. Plus he clearly wants to dabble in the three at the back arena anyway, which makes getting two full-on, modern, marauding backs an obvious priority for me if we want to progress.
* albeit on the wane by then with Woody at least - hence he allowed TP to pratt around with his career.
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Post by leoncort on Jan 27, 2017 11:11:24 GMT
Teams pushing for a top 8th finish cant have players who 'used to pose an attacking threat' but now they're old... young ambitious players who just starting out their careers and grateful for a chance to play in a top ten premier league side.
Glen is a top player, but for a year or so, and how many games are these older players actually playing, constantly picking up muscle injuries etc.
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Post by leoncort on Jan 27, 2017 11:13:58 GMT
leoncort is right.
With the TitH, I totally gave up on ever getting decent full backs in. His inane experiments trying to reinvent established and accomplished* CBs such as Huth and Woodgate as FBs were just painful and were more akin to a novel by Mary Shelley than to a progressive aspiring PL manager developing talent. Then, having inherited the nearest thing we had to a 'proper FB', Hoefkens, was cold shouldered & shipped out due to having kids. What was that about?
But that was Tone and we all knew that he would never change from four (preferably five) big units at the back, two of which just happened to be nearer the touchlines.
All that said, I am surprised that in his own reinvention of us as a football team, for me, Sparky hasn't addressed this so far.
And even now, our FBs would surely only rate as 'competent' in the traditional sense - which, is missing the opportunity. Plus he clearly wants to dabble in the three at the back arena anyway, which makes getting two full-on, modern, marauding backs an obvious priority for me if we want to progress.
* albeit on the wane by then with Woody at least - hence he allowed TP to pratt around with his career.
Great post. hit the nail firmly on the head. it makes sense from a footballing point of view (we can play more formations), a business point of view( fill home grown quota and young players will go on to hopefully be worth 10,15,20 m in the future.
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Post by maliciousdamage on Jan 27, 2017 11:45:28 GMT
I have to agreee here great full backs of old like Dixon and Des Walker could defend but also offered that speedy attacking flair something Johnson used to have, although playing in a three at the back seems to have stunted that element of his game and his attacking side was always better than his defensive one. We need younger more mobile fullbacks it's obvious how Tottenham have done well with it I think other teams are going this way to. Finding them though that's another story... Des Walker was a Centre Half mate...........sorry to piss on your chips
Who played fullback for England back then was it Dixon whoever it was like Walker he was quick at 47 memory ain't as good plus we never won anything to engrave that side into my memory 😆
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Post by shrewspotter on Jan 27, 2017 12:03:52 GMT
Des Walker was a Centre Half mate...........sorry to piss on your chips
Who played fullback for England back then was it Dixon whoever it was like Walker he was quick at 47 memory ain't as good plus we never won anything to engrave that side into my memory 😆 in the early 90's it was Paul Parker and Stuart Pearce. Pearce became a regular for about 8 years from roughly 1989-2007
Dixon played right back for England and eventually Gary Neville took over the mantle in Euro 96
Walker was a class centre half though
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 27, 2017 13:08:14 GMT
'young and defender dont belong in the same sentence with transfer policy' thats really strange because i seem to remember a club in January 2008 signing a big 21 year old centre half for roughly £1m. 9 years later he's still there and are consolidated in the premier league. The game has moved on so much, look at Bellerin, rose, walker, shaw, clyne, coleman, trippier, azpilacueta, robertson, and they are just the ones that come to mind. Shawx and BMI can be a solid CB partnership for us, add in some good young full backs (who will hopefully be less injury prone than a 30+ year old) and we could have a consistent back four and keeper which for me is a lot more impportant than having 4 experienced (ageing) defenders. In todays game though, a relationship between your full backs and your wingers can get you a lot of points in a season too.. arnies balls to the byline with pieters running on.... goal kick... You can get away with developing a young defender in the context of an experienced back line. My point was that a transfer policy based on establishing a young defensive unit is suicidal. Defenders peak in their early thirties and to have a transfer policy that denies this is just ignoring reality. The area of the pitch where youth comes into its own is on the wings. Raw speed and unpredictability are an asset and if they give the ball away the damage isnt usually so great. If we commit to a back five I'd concede ground on looking for youth in the wing backs. Providing the central three are pretty grizzled....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2017 13:27:50 GMT
'young and defender dont belong in the same sentence with transfer policy' thats really strange because i seem to remember a club in January 2008 signing a big 21 year old centre half for roughly £1m. 9 years later he's still there and are consolidated in the premier league. The game has moved on so much, look at Bellerin, rose, walker, shaw, clyne, coleman, trippier, azpilacueta, robertson, and they are just the ones that come to mind. Shawx and BMI can be a solid CB partnership for us, add in some good young full backs (who will hopefully be less injury prone than a 30+ year old) and we could have a consistent back four and keeper which for me is a lot more impportant than having 4 experienced (ageing) defenders. In todays game though, a relationship between your full backs and your wingers can get you a lot of points in a season too.. arnies balls to the byline with pieters running on.... goal kick... You can get away with developing a young defender in the context of an experienced back line. My point was that a transfer policy based on establishing a young defensive unit is suicidal. Defenders peak in their early thirties and to have a transfer policy that denies this is just ignoring reality. The area of the pitch where youth comes into its own is on the wings. Raw speed and unpredictability are an asset and if they give the ball away the damage isnt usually so great. If we commit to a back five I'd concede ground on looking for youth in the wing backs. Providing the central three are pretty grizzled.... Defenders peak in their early thirties. Im sorry but that's just rubbish.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 27, 2017 14:17:16 GMT
You can get away with developing a young defender in the context of an experienced back line. My point was that a transfer policy based on establishing a young defensive unit is suicidal. Defenders peak in their early thirties and to have a transfer policy that denies this is just ignoring reality. The area of the pitch where youth comes into its own is on the wings. Raw speed and unpredictability are an asset and if they give the ball away the damage isnt usually so great. If we commit to a back five I'd concede ground on looking for youth in the wing backs. Providing the central three are pretty grizzled.... Defenders peak in their early thirties. Im sorry but that's just rubbish. According to this site www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/babb/11629490/Ranking-the-Premier-League-defenders-of-the-season.html?frame=3317671 the average age of the highest ranked defenders in the premier league would have been 29 for the 2015/16 season - but 12 of the 20 were over 30 and only 3 were 25 or under. The average was dragged down because of one or two exceptional youngsters. According to this site www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/what-age-premier-league-players-3934704 the peak age for a premier league footballer is 27. Which sort of proves my point - base your transfer policy for defenders on experience and if you want to go for youth look to introduce it elsewhere. Eric Dyer 15/01/1994 30/06/2016 22 Seamus Coleman 11/10/1988 30/06/2016 27 Phil Jones 21/02/1992 30/06/2016 24 Ryan Shawcross 04/10/1987 30/06/2016 28 Wes Morgan 21/01/1984 30/06/2016 32 Ryan Bertrand 05/08/1989 30/06/2016 26 Phil Jagielka 17/08/1982 30/06/2016 33 Martin Skrtel 15/12/1984 30/06/2016 31 Pablo Zabaleta 16/01/1985 30/06/2016 31 Nacjo Monreal 26/02/1986 30/06/2016 30 Vincent Kompany 10/04/1986 30/06/2016 30 Aaron Cresswell 15/12/1989 30/06/2016 26 Ashely Williams 23/08/1984 30/06/2016 31 Laurent Koscielny 10/09/1985 30/06/2016 30 Jose Fonte 22/12/1983 30/06/2016 32 Gary Chahill 19/12/1985 30/06/2016 30 Cesar Azpilicueta 28/08/1989 30/06/2016 26 Nathaniel Clyne 05/04/1991 30/06/2016 25 Branislav Ivanovic 22/02/1984 30/06/2016 32 John Terry 07/12/1980 30/06/2016 35 Average: 29
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Post by daviddunn on Jan 27, 2017 15:42:14 GMT
Tony Dorigo brilliant left back for us
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Post by maliciousdamage on Jan 31, 2017 16:03:12 GMT
Who played fullback for England back then was it Dixon whoever it was like Walker he was quick at 47 memory ain't as good plus we never won anything to engrave that side into my memory 😆 in the early 90's it was Paul Parker and Stuart Pearce. Pearce became a regular for about 8 years from roughly 1989-2007
Dixon played right back for England and eventually Gary Neville took over the mantle in Euro 96
Walker was a class centre half though
Pearce and Parker how could I forget now there's a couple of quality fullbacks.
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