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Post by harryburrows on Jan 26, 2017 22:06:55 GMT
Clive Clark Marcus hall
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Post by thestatusquo on Jan 26, 2017 22:11:39 GMT
Jonny butler
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 26, 2017 22:16:01 GMT
Tottenham are trying to win the league. There's a bit of a difference. That's his point! How good would those two, especially walker, be in a team that actually has to defend for at least half of most games? My point is there aren't many, if any, teams around our level with two full backs better than ours.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 26, 2017 22:21:20 GMT
How good would those two, especially walker, be in a team that actually has to defend for at least half of most games? My point is there aren't many, if any, teams around our level with two full backs better than ours. I think he'd be fine, his pace allows him that recovery time. If we want to push on we need better full backs, Everton and Soton have full backs that can defend and attack and that's who we need to be emulating. Johnson has been poor going forward for us and is getting iffy at the back. Pieters has never been good going forward. And I know their primary job is to defend but the width in our side comes from the full backs and we have two that are poor going forward. It needs to change.
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Post by Gob Bluth on Jan 26, 2017 22:23:14 GMT
Interestingly I think it's a position the academy has actually delivered; Griffin, Clarke, Commons, Shotton.
Hoefkins was decent especially in that first season and I rated Griffin both times round, Mikael Hansson was a favourite of mine.
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Post by chuckrocky on Jan 26, 2017 22:34:18 GMT
Interestingly I think it's a position the academy has actually delivered; Griffin, Clarke, Commons, Shotton. Hoefkins was decent especially in that first season and I rated Griffin both times round, Mikael Hansson was a favourite of mine. Hansson was brilliant, loved watching him fly down the wing. Johnny Halls was also excellent before he decided to destroy his career. I also liked Frazer Richardson, he never really fulfilled his promise though.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 26, 2017 22:58:20 GMT
Young and defender don't belong in a sentence about transfer policy.
It's very rare you get a young defender who can cope at the highest level. Defenders improve with age - experience counts for a lot. By all means bring down the average age by getting a young winger or striker but a youth policy for the defence is a recipe for disaster.
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Post by cwpscfc on Jan 26, 2017 23:04:12 GMT
Young and defender don't belong in a sentence about transfer policy. It's very rare you get a young defender who can cope at the highest level. Defenders improve with age - experience counts for a lot. By all means bring down the average age by getting a young winger or striker but a youth policy for the defence is a recipe for disaster. How can you say that when if you look at the majority of teams in the prem, now have young full backs, that cause nothing but problems for teams. Coleman (Everton) rose + walker (Spurs) Bertrand (saints) bellerin (arsenal) Robertson (hull) the list goes on.. If you've got a young lad with legs, doubling up on a 30yr old without bundles of energy. There's only one outcome...
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Post by cwpscfc on Jan 26, 2017 23:05:22 GMT
Interestingly I think it's a position the academy has actually delivered; Griffin, Clarke, Commons, Shotton. Hoefkins was decent especially in that first season and I rated Griffin both times round, Mikael Hansson was a favourite of mine. Hansson was brilliant, loved watching him fly down the wing. Johnny Halls was also excellent before he decided to destroy his career. I also liked Frazer Richardson, he never really fulfilled his promise though. Shotton? Really? The guy blags a living
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Post by JC9 on Jan 26, 2017 23:12:34 GMT
Carl Hoefkins. Absolute class
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jan 26, 2017 23:23:14 GMT
Hansson was brilliant, loved watching him fly down the wing. Johnny Halls was also excellent before he decided to destroy his career. I also liked Frazer Richardson, he never really fulfilled his promise though. Shotton? Really? The guy blags a living Very good at it though.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 26, 2017 23:29:08 GMT
Shotton? Really? The guy blags a living Very good at it though. He generally played well for us at full back.
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Post by Gifton on Jan 26, 2017 23:32:02 GMT
Andy Griffin. P.S. Bryan 'Disco' Small dislikes this thread very much so. We had two Andy Griffin's, a marauding youthful wing back who could really get up the wing and take a man on and a dependable (mostly) defensive full back who had been forced to change his game due to injury. When he first came back from Derby I genuinely thought he was a liability but he became a valid part of an important team in our history. Overall a great servant to the club but he really was two completely different players in his two spells with us. Plus when I'm an old man I get to tell my grand kids I was there when Ric slapped him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2017 7:30:17 GMT
Tottenham are trying to win the league. There's a bit of a difference. That's his point! That is my point Dave. They've got excellent full backs we haven't. I was never saying we need full backs that are as good as Rose and Walker but when our width is provided by the full backs there is room for improvement. You appear to be moving the goalposts at every opportunity.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 27, 2017 7:59:47 GMT
Mikael Hansson was a great full back. Good defender, could get forward well. Shame that injuries ruined him. I'd love to have seen a fully fit Hansson in the team in recent years. His career ending injury really was a body blow to us - and to him. He missed out on our promotion party at the Mil Stad and was deprived of the chance to shine in what is now the Championship - he'd have done well in those early Championship seasons. He was the epitome of the modern attacking full back. Very sad.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 27, 2017 8:05:40 GMT
That is my point Dave. They've got excellent full backs we haven't. I was never saying we need full backs that are as good as Rose and Walker but when our width is provided by the full backs there is room for improvement. You appear to be moving the goalposts at every opportunity. I'm not moving the goalposts at all. Which clubs, at our level have two better full backs than us? If the best you can come up with is spurs, then you aren't really comparing apples with apples. I think we have two excellent full backs who are easily good enough to help propel us into a challenge for 7th spot and a cup win if we can get other areas of the team sorted. We'll struggle to get better than pieters in my opinion. Same with Johnson who is an excellent footballer.
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Post by leoncort on Jan 27, 2017 8:35:56 GMT
'young and defender dont belong in the same sentence with transfer policy'
thats really strange because i seem to remember a club in January 2008 signing a big 21 year old centre half for roughly £1m. 9 years later he's still there and are consolidated in the premier league.
The game has moved on so much, look at Bellerin, rose, walker, shaw, clyne, coleman, trippier, azpilacueta, robertson, and they are just the ones that come to mind.
Shawx and BMI can be a solid CB partnership for us, add in some good young full backs (who will hopefully be less injury prone than a 30+ year old) and we could have a consistent back four and keeper which for me is a lot more impportant than having 4 experienced (ageing) defenders.
In todays game though, a relationship between your full backs and your wingers can get you a lot of points in a season too.. arnies balls to the byline with pieters running on.... goal kick...
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Post by timbo1988 on Jan 27, 2017 8:39:25 GMT
That is my point Dave. They've got excellent full backs we haven't. I was never saying we need full backs that are as good as Rose and Walker but when our width is provided by the full backs there is room for improvement. You appear to be moving the goalposts at every opportunity. I'm not moving the goalposts at all. Which clubs, at our level have two better full backs than us? If the best you can come up with is spurs, then you aren't really comparing apples with apples. I think we have two excellent full backs who are easily good enough to help propel us into a challenge for 7th spot and a cup win if we can get other areas of the team sorted. We'll struggle to get better than pieters in my opinion. Same with Johnson who is an excellent footballer. Southampton have better full backs than us as do Everton. Our immediate rivals currently!
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Jan 27, 2017 8:48:37 GMT
Best full backs I can remember in my era (early 90s to present day) are John Butler, Andy Wilkinson, Lee Sandford and Andy Griffin (only at left back, he was strangely crap at right back).
Right back generally has been a weakness for us I think. Butler was solid if unspectacular right back as was Wilko. Johnson would have been higher on the list if he'd been younger and less injury prone. Actually add Carl Hoefkens to that list too he was decent.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 27, 2017 9:24:47 GMT
I'm not moving the goalposts at all. Which clubs, at our level have two better full backs than us? If the best you can come up with is spurs, then you aren't really comparing apples with apples. I think we have two excellent full backs who are easily good enough to help propel us into a challenge for 7th spot and a cup win if we can get other areas of the team sorted. We'll struggle to get better than pieters in my opinion. Same with Johnson who is an excellent footballer. Southampton have better full backs than us as do Everton. Our immediate rivals currently! Coleman is excellent for Everton but I wouldn't swap pieters for Baines. Bertrand is seemingly excellent for Southampton but I wouldn't swap Johnson for Soares, so neither of those have TWO full backs better than our two.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 27, 2017 9:48:36 GMT
Southampton have better full backs than us as do Everton. Our immediate rivals currently! Coleman is excellent for Everton but I wouldn't swap pieters for Baines. Bertrand is seemingly excellent for Southampton but I wouldn't swap Johnson for Soares, so neither of those have TWO full backs better than our two. You wouldn't but I think most would. Pretty easily too. Soares has really impressed me actually. I thought he'd be a bit shit at the back but he's really done well.
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Post by leoncort on Jan 27, 2017 10:19:55 GMT
Soares, started most if not all of a euros winning Portugal side? plays in a solid defence at Southampton?
My main point is that we are a team focusing on a top 8 finish really, and we have the attacking midfielders, the goal keeper and the CB's. We may have the striker in Berahino if he can get fit and firing. Good fullbacks can really transform a side and if i were hughes id get one in this window and one in the summer.
oh, and the 'tottenham have good fullbacks because they want to win the league' is a load of bollocks. they have good fullbacks because they see the strength they add to a side, spurs are aiming to finish higher every season, and so are we. so lets strengthen every position, not just the CAM/Wingers to keep the twitter fans happy.
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Post by cwpscfc on Jan 27, 2017 10:35:53 GMT
He generally played well for us at full back. He put the work in don't get me wrong, but he didn't have an end product 99% of the time
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 27, 2017 10:36:30 GMT
Soares, started most if not all of a euros winning Portugal side? plays in a solid defence at Southampton? My main point is that we are a team focusing on a top 8 finish really, and we have the attacking midfielders, the goal keeper and the CB's. We may have the striker in Berahino if he can get fit and firing. Good fullbacks can really transform a side and if i were hughes id get one in this window and one in the summer. oh, and the 'tottenham have good fullbacks because they want to win the league' is a load of bollocks. they have good fullbacks because they see the strength they add to a side, spurs are aiming to finish higher every season, and so are we. so lets strengthen every position, not just the CAM/Wingers to keep the twitter fans happy. Of course we should look to strengthen every position in our team if possible. I just don't think it would be particularly easy, or cheap, to replace the excellent full backs we already have. Don't forget also that we tried to sign Soares and he chose Southampton.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2017 10:40:50 GMT
Should be top priority over the summer to at least get an alternative or competition to Pieters, and the same for Bardo. Part of me reckons Johnson will move on.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 27, 2017 10:54:38 GMT
Young and defender don't belong in a sentence about transfer policy. It's very rare you get a young defender who can cope at the highest level. Defenders improve with age - experience counts for a lot. By all means bring down the average age by getting a young winger or striker but a youth policy for the defence is a recipe for disaster. How can you say that when if you look at the majority of teams in the prem, now have young full backs, that cause nothing but problems for teams. Coleman (Everton) rose + walker (Spurs) Bertrand (saints) bellerin (arsenal) Robertson (hull) the list goes on.. If you've got a young lad with legs, doubling up on a 30yr old without bundles of energy. There's only one outcome... Walker is 26 and Bertrand is 27 - I'll give you Robertson (23) and Bellerin (22) as "young". I agree there will be only one outcome of a young lad up against an experienced 30 year old defender - 9 times out of 10 the 30 year old defender will come out on top. A young quick wing back has merit - but if you're playing a back four with traditional fullbacks I'd take experience every time.
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Post by leoncort on Jan 27, 2017 10:56:14 GMT
Soares, started most if not all of a euros winning Portugal side? plays in a solid defence at Southampton? My main point is that we are a team focusing on a top 8 finish really, and we have the attacking midfielders, the goal keeper and the CB's. We may have the striker in Berahino if he can get fit and firing. Good fullbacks can really transform a side and if i were hughes id get one in this window and one in the summer. oh, and the 'tottenham have good fullbacks because they want to win the league' is a load of bollocks. they have good fullbacks because they see the strength they add to a side, spurs are aiming to finish higher every season, and so are we. so lets strengthen every position, not just the CAM/Wingers to keep the twitter fans happy. Of course we should look to strengthen every position in our team if possible. I just don't think it would be particularly easy, or cheap, to replace the excellent full backs we already have. Don't forget also that we tried to sign Soares and he chose Southampton. In todays world, 5-6m is cheap. look at west ham snapping up byram and creswell from championship sides? if imbula is 18m, two good promising full backs like Iorfa and Taylor for 5-7m each, taylor in last year of contract i believe so even less? its cheap. wages will be less than johnson i assume, and also from a business point of view, their values will only increase? cresswell must be worth 10m in todays market.. soares 8m plus?
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Post by shrewspotter on Jan 27, 2017 10:57:00 GMT
Graham Harby.......now there was a fullback.................
even his name and the way he looks means that he is shite
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Post by leoncort on Jan 27, 2017 10:57:04 GMT
yes they may be that old now, but have been regulars since they've been 23-24??
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Post by maliciousdamage on Jan 27, 2017 10:57:16 GMT
How good would those two, especially walker, be in a team that actually has to defend for at least half of most games? My point is there aren't many, if any, teams around our level with two full backs better than ours. I think he'd be fine, his pace allows him that recovery time. If we want to push on we need better full backs, Everton and Soton have full backs that can defend and attack and that's who we need to be emulating. Johnson has been poor going forward for us and is getting iffy at the back. Pieters has never been good going forward. And I know their primary job is to defend but the width in our side comes from the full backs and we have two that are poor going forward. It needs to change. I have to agreee here great full backs of old like Dixon and Des Walker could defend but also offered that speedy attacking flair something Johnson used to have, although playing in a three at the back seems to have stunted that element of his game and his attacking side was always better than his defensive one. We need younger more mobile fullbacks it's obvious how Tottenham have done well with it I think other teams are going this way to. Finding them though that's another story...
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