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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Nov 9, 2016 16:54:49 GMT
The "effort and passion" thing may be a bit of a cliche, but I'm starting to wonder if there is more to it than meets the eye.
When you look at how Klopp has transformed Liverpool in a relatively short space of time, there is an argument to say that part of that is simply getting the players fitter - almost getting them to "try harder". There is no doubting that the team are working harder for each other as a collective group. There seems to be an unstoppable energetic synergy about them - they are delivering way more than the sum of their parts at the moment.
This stems almost from his personality - his enthusiasm and charisma is infectious - they want to play for him and succeed.
I'm not sure whether they will be able to maintain that sheer effort in this league all season - but looking at them, it is hard to argue against the observation that part of their success this season is because they are playing with more spirit, "energy and passion".
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Post by chiefdelilah on Nov 9, 2016 17:52:59 GMT
The "effort and passion" thing may be a bit of a cliche, but I'm starting to wonder if there is more to it than meets the eye. When you look at how Klopp has transformed Liverpool in a relatively short space of time, there is an argument to say that part of that is simply getting the players fitter - almost getting them to "try harder". There is no doubting that the team are working harder for each other as a collective group. There seems to be an unstoppable energetic synergy about them - they are delivering way more than the sum of their parts at the moment. This stems almost from his personality - his enthusiasm and charisma is infectious - they want to play for him and succeed. I'm not sure whether they will be able to maintain that sheer effort in this league all season - but looking at them, it is hard to argue against the observation that part of their success this season is because they are playing with more spirit, "energy and passion". There's a lot more to Klopp than just the German equivalent of telling them to "just fackin' run around a bit" though. While you could argue he doesn't have a plan b, his plan a is very astute tactically and he's managed to get players playing well out of position - Milner at left back, Lucas at centre back etc. He tries to improve players and get them thinking about their positioning, the runs to make, where to win the ball, what to do when you lose it etc. That's the kind of stuff we have sneered at for years in this country, but not being willing or able to think tactically about the game has been a huge reason why the national team has repeatedly fallen short.
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Post by blackpoolred on Nov 9, 2016 18:35:35 GMT
Jagielka, Stones, Drinkwater, Wilshire, Lingard, Rooney WHAT THE FUCK? Are they the best Southgate can muster up to represent the country? Gouranga. The question should be is Southgate the best person we can muster up to represent our country. That and how the feck Walcott has managed to get back in he squad
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 9, 2016 18:45:22 GMT
People cry out for blokes in form to be picked - what happens when they are? "How the feck has he managed to get back in the squad"
As usual, the England manager, bar injuries and the odd one or two, has picked the best players he has available to him. Sorry, that's a stonewall fact.
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Post by metalhead on Nov 9, 2016 19:04:08 GMT
People cry out for blokes in form to be picked - what happens when they are? "How the feck has he managed to get back in the squad" As usual, the England manager, bar injuries and the odd one or two, has picked the best players he has available to him. Sorry, that's a stonewall fact. Jack Wilshere?
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 9, 2016 19:14:10 GMT
People cry out for blokes in form to be picked - what happens when they are? "How the feck has he managed to get back in the squad" As usual, the England manager, bar injuries and the odd one or two, has picked the best players he has available to him. Sorry, that's a stonewall fact. Jack Wilshere? Whether you like it or not, a fit Jack Wilshere is among the best English players. In a sea of mediocrity, we're crying out for his ability. He was MoM more often than not in the Euro Qualifiers.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 9, 2016 19:20:04 GMT
Being fit and being in form are two different things though.
And he ain't in form.
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 9, 2016 19:27:34 GMT
Being fit and being in form are two different things though. And he ain't in form. There are arguments on both sides whether Wilshere should be picked this time around.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Nov 9, 2016 19:39:30 GMT
Interesting discussion on 5 Live. David Davies on reforming the FA, coaching, etc etc.
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Post by metalhead on Nov 9, 2016 19:39:36 GMT
Whether you like it or not, a fit Jack Wilshere is among the best English players. In a sea of mediocrity, we're crying out for his ability. He was MoM more often than not in the Euro Qualifiers. Lol they got to you bud.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 9, 2016 20:17:53 GMT
People cry out for blokes in form to be picked - what happens when they are? "How the feck has he managed to get back in the squad" As usual, the England manager, bar injuries and the odd one or two, has picked the best players he has available to him. Sorry, that's a stonewall fact. Bang on Pugs, and a sad reflection on the piss poor talent pool that we are currently selecting from. It's getting progressively worse every year. Look at our squad from 20 years ago (Euro 96). I don't think a single player from the current group would even get into the 23 never mind starting eleven.
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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 10, 2016 9:44:16 GMT
Fucking 'passion' again, Jesus. Will we never get over our obsession with this bollocks? jumping up and down, shouting at people and kissing a badge wins you tournaments Rob, everyone knows that! let's ignore the fact that all these players get paid a lot specifically because they willingly and voluntarily gave up having a "normal" childhood where they could have played whatever games they wanted, ate and drank what they wanted, stayed up as late as they wanted, go wherever they wanted, played with their friends whenever they wanted etc. etc. because of their dream to play the game at a high level. they dedicated most of their young lives so far just to enable them to be in a position to represent their domestic clubs and their countries. if that's not "Passion" for the game then fuck knows what is.....but no, let's focus on the fact they get paid well and that automatically on it's own means they have no passion apparently. It's how passion manifests itself. The passion the English talk about with monotonous regularity is pointless. What’s the thing always thrown at the England set up? Passion. England lack ‘passion’. ‘Passion’ manifests itself by way of crashing tackles and sticking your bonce amongst the boots to win a header. These aren’t bad attributes but at international level you need more than blood and thunder. Englands players are lacking because many have never had to consider a wider range to their game. Partly because of the nature of English football. That’s not to say it can’t change. Spain have proven that a football culture can evolve. If England are to develop into a side capable of challenging the worlds best physical clashes and gritted teeth won’t be the primary requirement.
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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 10, 2016 10:11:13 GMT
Rooney starts v Scotland
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Post by GeneralFaye on Nov 10, 2016 10:19:16 GMT
It's absolute bollocks to suggest he's picked the players who are fit AND in form. How is Lingard getting in ahead of Redmond for example? Kane's played 1 game in 2 months. Sturridge, as much as I like him, sits on the bench twiddling his thumbs every Saturday. Jagielka, how he gets picked ahead of any other English CB in the Premier League right now is beyond me. Vardy can't score and has been dropped by Leicester. I could go on and on and this is without me starting on Wilshire as well.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Nov 10, 2016 12:59:01 GMT
The "effort and passion" thing may be a bit of a cliche, but I'm starting to wonder if there is more to it than meets the eye. When you look at how Klopp has transformed Liverpool in a relatively short space of time, there is an argument to say that part of that is simply getting the players fitter - almost getting them to "try harder". There is no doubting that the team are working harder for each other as a collective group. There seems to be an unstoppable energetic synergy about them - they are delivering way more than the sum of their parts at the moment. This stems almost from his personality - his enthusiasm and charisma is infectious - they want to play for him and succeed. I'm not sure whether they will be able to maintain that sheer effort in this league all season - but looking at them, it is hard to argue against the observation that part of their success this season is because they are playing with more spirit, "energy and passion". There's a lot more to Klopp than just the German equivalent of telling them to "just fackin' run around a bit" though. While you could argue he doesn't have a plan b, his plan a is very astute tactically and he's managed to get players playing well out of position - Milner at left back, Lucas at centre back etc. He tries to improve players and get them thinking about their positioning, the runs to make, where to win the ball, what to do when you lose it etc. That's the kind of stuff we have sneered at for years in this country, but not being willing or able to think tactically about the game has been a huge reason why the national team has repeatedly fallen short. I agree with you there, and part of the problem with English football is not just that our players are simply tactically unaware, they are, unfortunately, as a rule, pretty dim.
One of the things I like most about Southgate is his intelligence. If he can get the players thinking for themselves during the game a little more it would be a step forward.
There is also no doubting that Klopp, Pochetino and Conte, as well as being tactically smart, appreciate the merits of a high energy team, and in the case of Klopp and Conte, their "passion" and enthusiasm seems to rub off on the players.
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 10, 2016 13:11:01 GMT
It's absolute bollocks to suggest he's picked the players who are fit AND in form. How is Lingard getting in ahead of Redmond for example? Kane's played 1 game in 2 months. Sturridge, as much as I like him, sits on the bench twiddling his thumbs every Saturday. Jagielka, how he gets picked ahead of any other English CB in the Premier League right now is beyond me. Vardy can't score and has been dropped by Leicester. I could go on and on and this is without me starting on Wilshire as well. I was on about Walcott and I did say "the odd one or two". Redmond should be in I agree, and he has been training with them. Who you picking ahead of Kane and Sturridge?
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Post by drjeffsdiscobarge on Nov 11, 2016 18:20:19 GMT
Draw 4/1 and Scotland 9/1...
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Post by chuckrocky on Nov 11, 2016 18:43:38 GMT
Why were Scotland given such a big allocation? They should of been given the minimum allocation, which was 3000 I believe. They should be made to feel as unwelcome as possible.
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Post by onlyonesirstan on Nov 11, 2016 18:54:31 GMT
Why were Scotland given such a big allocation? They should of been given the minimum allocation, which was 3000 I believe. They should be made to feel as unwelcome as possible. was thinking the same. Fucking skirt wearing, foul mouthed, drunken twats
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Post by drjeffsdiscobarge on Nov 11, 2016 19:04:17 GMT
Loads of families at england games these days. The scots wiĺl have been on the lash all day, will sound like the games being played at hampden park.
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Post by chad on Nov 11, 2016 19:22:37 GMT
Charlie's a better player than anyone in that jock midfield. He must have really pissed off Strachan somehow
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Post by FullerMagic on Nov 11, 2016 19:25:43 GMT
Southgate as England manager and Donald Trump as President.
Good Lord. How did we end up here?
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Post by adamsson on Nov 11, 2016 19:36:01 GMT
Southgate as England manager and Donald Trump as President. Good Lord. How did we end up here? Is it wrong to hope Scotland win so Southgate doesn't get the job?
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Post by GeneralFaye on Nov 11, 2016 19:42:39 GMT
If we can't score past Berra and Hanley then we deserve to give up football for good. Their team really is the definition of average.
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Post by drjeffsdiscobarge on Nov 11, 2016 19:43:31 GMT
Southgate as England manager and Donald Trump as President. Good Lord. How did we end up here? Is it wrong to hope Scotland win so Southgate doesn't get the job? And give the job to... We have got the worst selection of players in donkeys years...
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Post by chad on Nov 11, 2016 19:43:43 GMT
Flower of Scotland is certainly a rousing anthem
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Post by maninasuitcase on Nov 11, 2016 19:44:31 GMT
Southgate as England manager and Donald Trump as President. Good Lord. How did we end up here? Is it wrong to hope Scotland win so Southgate doesn't get the job? Yes. We dinnae want those crabbit feckers winning on oor patch.
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Post by maninasuitcase on Nov 11, 2016 19:46:56 GMT
Flower of Scotland is certainly a rousing anthem About time we had our own anthem not the UK anthem.
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Post by Bowyer83 on Nov 11, 2016 19:49:21 GMT
Southgate as England manager and Donald Trump as President. Good Lord. How did we end up here? Is it wrong to hope Scotland win so Southgate doesn't get the job? Yes there's nobody else decent out there that wants the job.
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Post by canadianmoose on Nov 11, 2016 19:52:16 GMT
John Stones.......two mistakes in 4 minutes
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