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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2016 19:32:59 GMT
Hughes is giving him a kick up the arse, making all the right noises "knows he has to work hard" "training well" "will be starting games again soon" basically dressing it up as tactfully as he can. I don't believe a word of it, I can't see anyway that Imbula has been that much poorer than a lot of the others to warrant being completely out of a matchday squad including Crouch, Walters, Adam, Bojan, Given. To me he's got to have shown a poor attitude to being out of the starting 11, in fact I've seen him react poorly to being subbed not long before he was dropped. I think Hughes is dealing with it in the correct way, he's put a shot across his bows now he's giving it a bit of time to sink in and hopefully show results. Completely humiliating him by sending him on loan to the Championship carrying an £18M price tag would be totally counter productive and possibly leave their relationship unworkable.
To be fair that's a heck of a lot of assumptions you've made there.
On the face of it I don't think there's any reason to think that your assumptions are anymore valid than Hacket's.
I guess then you expect to see Imbula back in the picture within a match or two then?
I'd assume that that depends entirely on Imbula. He's got choices to make, he can sulk and milk his wages, he can agitate for a move back to the continent or he can get his head down and work on his game.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 26, 2016 19:42:31 GMT
To be fair that's a heck of a lot of assumptions you've made there.
On the face of it I don't think there's any reason to think that your assumptions are anymore valid than Hacket's.
I guess then you expect to see Imbula back in the picture within a match or two then?
I'd assume that that depends entirely on Imbula. He's got choices to make, he can sulk and milk his wages, he can agitate for a move back to the continent or he can get his head down and work on his game.
That's kind of my point ... if your assumption is correct and he is being given a kick up the arse for having a poor attitude and he has in fact not been any poorer than the other players ability wise and you don't believe what Hughes has said publicly, then it would surely suggest that he will make a return within a match or two, or else if he doesn't, then the only explanation (if you follow your logic through) would be that his attitude is pretty much terminal?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 26, 2016 19:50:50 GMT
The other midfielder on the bench and the one in the stand can only operate in a number 10 in a Hughes side. It was a failed experiment bought about by signing a player his system was incapable of incorporating . Now where've I seen a manager doing that recently A number 10 in a Pulis side was Mama Sidibie btw so I agree what Pulis did with Adam was daft but it is no different to the absolute pickle Hughes has hot himself into now with a host of players never able or no longer able to play his desired system.
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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 26, 2016 19:56:10 GMT
If Imbula really is a busted flush, and slinks off back to the continent for less than half what we paid for him in either Jan or June, then it will be hard for the powers that be to trust Hughes and the Pizza boys with such big money again to pay for the arrival of the much needed CDM and striker......
He could well become Hughes' version of TP's Palacios........
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2016 20:00:49 GMT
I'd assume that that depends entirely on Imbula. He's got choices to make, he can sulk and milk his wages, he can agitate for a move back to the continent or he can get his head down and work on his game.
That's kind of my point ... if your assumption is correct and he is being given a kick up the arse for having a poor attitude and he has in fact not been any poorer than the other players ability wise and you don't believe what Hughes has said publicly, then it would surely suggest that he will make a return within a match or two, or else if he doesn't, then the only explanation (if you follow your logic through) would be that his attitude is pretty much terminal?
Not necessarily he's got to have time to stop sulking, then he's got to work with the fitness staff, coaches, sports psychologists even to get himself into a place where he's fit enough, alert enough, capable of concentrating and running for 90 minutes. Its a lot to take on board, he may or not be capable of doing so. I never said he didn't have issues, there are quite a lot of players that remain in our squad and even starting 11 that have just as serious deep lying issues if not even more so but they haven't been treated like him. Probably because the manager sees them as good eggs.
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Post by loosestools on Oct 26, 2016 20:07:43 GMT
What particular individual qualities did Hughes see in Imbula before he signed him, this might have been discussed before but its a new season and Ive got older?
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2016 20:08:56 GMT
If Imbula really is a busted flush, and slinks off back to the continent for less than half what we paid for him in either Jan or June, then it will be hard for the powers that be to trust Hughes and the Pizza boys with such big money again to pay for the arrival of the much needed CDM and striker...... He could well become Hughes' version of TP's Palacios........ There was nothing wrong with the Palacios signing, we had a need for a player exactly like what he had been at this level, in this country. It didn't come off, yes their were rumors about his fitness and his mental state but was still worth trying to get him back on track. He was so good previously and was perfect for a Pulis midfield. IMHO it was a combination of the Crouch and Kenwynne Jones deal that led to his demise.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2016 20:11:13 GMT
What particular individual qualities did Hughes see in Imbula before he signed him, this might have been discussed before but its a new season and Ive got older? The ones he displayed in his first few games for the club, you'd imagine. He had several outstanding ones away from home.
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Post by werrington on Oct 26, 2016 20:11:45 GMT
What particular individual qualities did Hughes see in Imbula before he signed him, this might have been discussed before but its a new season and Ive got older? We all saw his qualities at Stamford Bridge as well as Watford and Bournemouth away He was immense in all those games
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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 26, 2016 20:15:01 GMT
If Imbula really is a busted flush, and slinks off back to the continent for less than half what we paid for him in either Jan or June, then it will be hard for the powers that be to trust Hughes and the Pizza boys with such big money again to pay for the arrival of the much needed CDM and striker...... He could well become Hughes' version of TP's Palacios........ There was nothing wrong with the Palacios signing, we had a need for a player exactly like what he had been at this level, in this country. It didn't come off, yes their were rumors about his fitness and his mental state but was still worth trying to get him back on track. He was so good previously and was perfect for a Pulis midfield. IMHO it was a combination of the Crouch and Kenwynne Jones deal that led to his demise. I was thinking more along the lines of a signing for big money we were all excited about, of a player who looked like he would fit the bill perfectly, but then failed to perform and eventually, after being persona non grata, sloped off having trousered thousands of pounds of wages for doing very little of any consequence.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 26, 2016 20:17:28 GMT
That's kind of my point ... if your assumption is correct and he is being given a kick up the arse for having a poor attitude and he has in fact not been any poorer than the other players ability wise and you don't believe what Hughes has said publicly, then it would surely suggest that he will make a return within a match or two, or else if he doesn't, then the only explanation (if you follow your logic through) would be that his attitude is pretty much terminal?
Not necessarily he's got to have time to stop sulking, then he's got to work with the fitness staff, coaches, sports psychologists even to get himself into a place where he's fit enough, alert enough, capable of concentrating and running for 90 minutes. Its a lot to take on board, he may or not be capable of doing so. I never said he didn't have issues, there are quite a lot of players that remain in our squad and even starting 11 that have just as serious deep lying issues if not even more so but they haven't been treated like him. Probably because the manager sees them as good eggs. You might indeed prove to be right but there's still far too many assumptions in your theory for me at the moment.
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Post by loosestools on Oct 26, 2016 20:17:32 GMT
What particular individual qualities did Hughes see in Imbula before he signed him, this might have been discussed before but its a new season and Ive got older? The ones he displayed in his first few games for the club, you'd imagine. He had several outstanding ones away from home. Yes, he did show some commanding performances in some games - Bournemouth away? What has gone astray - he has recently got married, that took away my prowess at Sunday League football! I think he was sussed quike quickly and ended up like Kightly, running like Forest Gump into the advertising boards.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Oct 26, 2016 20:18:27 GMT
Disappearing down the rabbit hole here Chief. We missed Shaq and Johnson and Imbula looked phased at times too. Not just one cog down. I loved how Joey defended and grabbed the ball from the front on sat. I never said it was just one cog. Hence saying it was a big part of the problem, as opposed to the whole problem. Allen had protection on Sat. That's how we've turned a weakness into a strength. It's not so much disappearing down a rabbit hole as sticking your head in the sand about the bits of the problem you don't want to worry about. Whelan watching Allen's tail for now? Sand? Whilst that may be aimed at me... Dunner be daft. It's obviously being addressed.
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2016 20:19:39 GMT
What particular individual qualities did Hughes see in Imbula before he signed him, this might have been discussed before but its a new season and Ive got older? We all saw his qualities at Stamford Bridge as well as Watford and Bournemouth away He was immense in all those games Thought he was our best player in the first game of this season against boro but to play cm in this league you've got to do your share of the leg work. He's not been willing or able to do this and at times has seemed totally switched off. Theres an intensity to English football he'll never have encountered before. Having to run and concentrate for 90 mins in every game is probably something he's ill prepared for.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2016 20:22:20 GMT
I never said it was just one cog. Hence saying it was a big part of the problem, as opposed to the whole problem. Allen had protection on Sat. That's how we've turned a weakness into a strength. It's not so much disappearing down a rabbit hole as sticking your head in the sand about the bits of the problem you don't want to worry about. Whelan watching Allen's tail for now? Sand? Whilst that may be aimed at me... Dunner be daft. It's obviously being addressed. I don't know what any of that means mate. It's been addressed in a sticking plaster way, 'for now' as you were saying. We don't know how it's being addressed beyond that. Cameron has come into the side because Whelan alone watching Allen's tail wasn't enough. That, as I said, was a big part of the issue.
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Post by werrington on Oct 26, 2016 20:22:36 GMT
We all saw his qualities at Stamford Bridge as well as Watford and Bournemouth away He was immense in all those games Thought he was our best player in the first game of this season against boro but to play cm in this league you've got to do your share of the leg work. He's not been willing or able to do this and at times has seemed totally switched off. Theres an intensity to English football he'll never have encountered before. Having to run and concentrate for 90 mins in every game is probably something he's ill prepared for. I'm not disagreeing mate, far from it ....I was just pointing it out
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Post by loosestools on Oct 26, 2016 20:23:10 GMT
We all saw his qualities at Stamford Bridge as well as Watford and Bournemouth away He was immense in all those games Thought he was our best player in the first game of this season against boro but to play cm in this league you've got to do your share of the leg work. He's not been willing or able to do this and at times has seemed totally switched off. Theres an intensity to English football he'll never have encountered before. Having to run and concentrate for 90 mins in every game is probably something he's ill prepared for. Surely that would have been part of his initial scouts assessment, is that worth an £18m gamble?
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2016 20:24:16 GMT
There was nothing wrong with the Palacios signing, we had a need for a player exactly like what he had been at this level, in this country. It didn't come off, yes their were rumors about his fitness and his mental state but was still worth trying to get him back on track. He was so good previously and was perfect for a Pulis midfield. IMHO it was a combination of the Crouch and Kenwynne Jones deal that led to his demise. I was thinking more along the lines of a signing for big money we were all excited about, of a player who looked like he would fit the bill perfectly, but then failed to perform and eventually, after being persona non grata, sloped off having trousered thousands of pounds of wages for doing very little of any consequence. Thats just transfers it happens all the time everywhere. Spending a club record fee so as not to play your previous club record of only 12 months ago, who'd not done at all badly is pretty damned stupid and would lead to any sane person questioning your judgement.
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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 26, 2016 20:25:54 GMT
Thought he was our best player in the first game of this season against boro but to play cm in this league you've got to do your share of the leg work. He's not been willing or able to do this and at times has seemed totally switched off. Theres an intensity to English football he'll never have encountered before. Having to run and concentrate for 90 mins in every game is probably something he's ill prepared for. Surely that would have been part of his initial scouts assessment, is that worth an £18m gamble? The scary thing is there may be some truth in the suggestion that we bought him almost solely on the evidence of running us ragged for Porto in pre-season when most of our lads were barely fit and we treated it like a glorified training session.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 26, 2016 20:28:44 GMT
Surely that would have been part of his initial scouts assessment, is that worth an £18m gamble? The scary thing is there may be some truth in the suggestion that we bought him almost solely on the evidence of running us ragged for Porto in pre-season when most of our lads were barely fit and we treated it like a glorified training session. Has there ever been an explanation offered, as to why Porto wanted rid of him, just six months after paying big money for him?
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2016 20:29:57 GMT
Thought he was our best player in the first game of this season against boro but to play cm in this league you've got to do your share of the leg work. He's not been willing or able to do this and at times has seemed totally switched off. Theres an intensity to English football he'll never have encountered before. Having to run and concentrate for 90 mins in every game is probably something he's ill prepared for. Surely that would have been part of his initial scouts assessment, is that worth an £18m gamble? And how exactly were said scouts supposed to make that judgement, they will have scouted him playing in less intense leagues? Everytime you buy a player from abroad who's never played in England its a gamble whether they will adapt or not. What do you do, do a Pulis and just not buy them?
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2016 20:33:18 GMT
Surely that would have been part of his initial scouts assessment, is that worth an £18m gamble? The scary thing is there may be some truth in the suggestion that we bought him almost solely on the evidence of running us ragged for Porto in pre-season when most of our lads were barely fit and we treated it like a glorified training session. Heard something that the coach never wanted him in the first place and preferred the players he already had.
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Post by loosestools on Oct 26, 2016 20:34:33 GMT
Surely that would have been part of his initial scouts assessment, is that worth an £18m gamble? And how exactly were said scouts supposed to make that judgement, they will have scouted him playing in less intense leagues? Everytime you buy a player from abroad who's never played in England its a gamble whether they will adapt or not. What do you do, do a Pulis and just not buy them? Because they are supposed to recognise the qualities required for life in the Prem, £18m for work in progress? That is hit the ground running money.
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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 26, 2016 20:35:13 GMT
The scary thing is there may be some truth in the suggestion that we bought him almost solely on the evidence of running us ragged for Porto in pre-season when most of our lads were barely fit and we treated it like a glorified training session. Has there ever been an explanation offered, as to why Porto wanted rid of him, just six months after paying big money for him? I presume they just didn't "fancy" him, but when trying to sell him to us for a profit, despite his barely featuring for them, they were not about to say any or all of he was lazy/had an attitude problem/didn't track back etc etc, were they? We should have smelled a rat but all we smelled was a large meat feast......
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Post by loosestools on Oct 26, 2016 20:39:33 GMT
Has there ever been an explanation offered, as to why Porto wanted rid of him, just six months after paying big money for him? I presume they just didn't "fancy" him, but when trying to sell him to us for a profit, despite his barely featuring for them, they were not about to say any or all of he was lazy/had an attitude problem/didn't track back etc etc, were they? We should have smelled a rat but all we smelled was a large meat feast...... Just like that young chap from West Brom then.
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2016 20:41:41 GMT
And how exactly were said scouts supposed to make that judgement, they will have scouted him playing in less intense leagues? Everytime you buy a player from abroad who's never played in England its a gamble whether they will adapt or not. What do you do, do a Pulis and just not buy them? Because they are supposed to recognise the qualities required for life in the Prem, £18m for work in progress? That is hit the ground running money. So if the pace of the game is slower and the player doesn't have to do a great deal of running or be as switched on to be in the correct position, they're somehow supposed to conclude that he can't or won't do that when he moves to the English leagues. Do you want scouts or fucking mystics.
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2016 20:45:53 GMT
I presume they just didn't "fancy" him, but when trying to sell him to us for a profit, despite his barely featuring for them, they were not about to say any or all of he was lazy/had an attitude problem/didn't track back etc etc, were they? We should have smelled a rat but all we smelled was a large meat feast...... Just like that young chap from West Brom then. That'll be that young chap who they want to sign a long term contract despite not playing him because he's probably no more over his target weight than Bony (certainly when we signed him). Wake up to the games that are played and bullshit spouted by football managers.
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Post by loosestools on Oct 26, 2016 20:51:16 GMT
Because they are supposed to recognise the qualities required for life in the Prem, £18m for work in progress? That is hit the ground running money. So if the pace of the game is slower and the player doesn't have to do a great deal of running or be as switched on to be in the correct position, they're somehow supposed to conclude that he can't or won't do that when he moves to the English leagues. Do you want scouts or fucking mystics. So, what was the scouting brief? What were they looking for? As i said £18m for a player with the potential to maybe fit in? In the SCFC resource expenditure levels that is a gamble. I think that scouts are professional people with qualities that enables them to spot what is required. No need to swear.
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2016 21:00:00 GMT
Well how the hell do you think they are supposed to judge whether someone is capable of doing something they aren't being required to do in the environment in which they're judging them. If the game is slower paced and less frenetic and you need to do little more than jog into position are they supposed to have a method of deciding if he had to be there faster he wouldn't make it. I thought he looked a very old 23 when we signed him, maybe they should have had him carbon dated him too. They will have made their recommendations mainly on his technique and stature which is sound.
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Post by loosestools on Oct 26, 2016 21:08:39 GMT
Well how the hell do you think they are supposed to judge whether someone is capable of doing something they aren't being required to do in the environment in which they're judging them. If the game is slower paced and less frenetic and you need to do little more than jog into position are they supposed to have a method of deciding if he had to be there faster he wouldn't make it. I thought he looked a very old 23 when we signed him, maybe they should have had him carbon dated him too. They will have made their recommendations mainly on his technique and stature which is sound. Sounds like a ridiculous assesment task, like looking in a load of boxes for a tool you might need to do something at sometime in the future.
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