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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2016 16:29:57 GMT
So let me get this right you want to promote Bojan who's been completely wank for about 12 months to the starting 11 and drum our record signing who's been a mixed bag since his arrival less than 12 months ago out of the club altogether. Wow just fucking wow. I didn't say out of the club I said on loan with the view to try and make our record signing understand the English game. You really know how to motivate a guy. Completely fucking humiliate him, bet he'd come back and run through brick walls for you not. Still does nothing to justify your double standards on your treatment of your players. If you're sending Imbula on loan to the Championship maybe to be consistent you ought to be sending Bojan to play for a local school instead of promoting him to the starting 11, maybe he'd compete physically there. Utter fuckwittery of the highest order.
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Post by blurtonboy on Oct 26, 2016 16:39:10 GMT
So let me get this right you want to promote Bojan who's been completely wank for about 12 months to the starting 11 and drum our record signing who's been a mixed bag since his arrival less than 12 months ago out of the club altogether. Wow just fucking wow. I didn't say out of the club I said on loan with the view to try and make our record signing understand the English game. How about sit him down with the manager, show him what he is doing wrong & what the other players have done right since he has been dropped, work with him, let him digest what has been said(if his English has improved), then see if he can be told what has been drilled into him?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 26, 2016 17:22:20 GMT
I didn't say out of the club I said on loan with the view to try and make our record signing understand the English game. You really know how to motivate a guy. Completely fucking humiliate him, bet he'd come back and run through brick walls for you not. Still does nothing to justify your double standards on your treatment of your players. If you're sending Imbula on loan to the Championship maybe to be consistent you ought to be sending Bojan to play for a local school instead of promoting him to the starting 11, maybe he'd compete physically there. Utter fuckwittery of the highest order.
He's been here nearly a year now and he's not even getting a sniff of our bench, I can't see how sending him out on loan would necessarily be any more demotivating.
I'm not saying that he should go out on loan (I'll leave that for Hughes to decide) but surely the lad would rather be playing some football at least, rather than being frozen out completely?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2016 17:26:24 GMT
Are people ever going to stop touting Geoff as our holding midfield solution? How many times does he have to prove he can't play there on his own?
Whelan is helping him out there at the moment as much as vice versa.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 26, 2016 17:28:50 GMT
Are people ever going to stop touting Geoff as our holding midfield solution? How many times does he have to prove he can't play there on his own? Whelan is helping him out there at the moment as much as vice versa. He's a footballing God now Rob.
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Post by ryan4england on Oct 26, 2016 17:29:08 GMT
Agree thst crosses and taking space out wide forward from fb are exactly what we need because we offer little out wide in advanced positions and teams know it so they can tighten up. Thorne will be a top quality player he'll be a premiership player before long. His style of play is exactly what we need for comp/ successor to whelan. His you tube vids are a good assesment of his quality and style. Derby fan i know raves about him he's a fans favourite Aah George Thorne You haven't actually watched him have you ?....it's all because your Derby mate rates him highly And you implore the club to get it done on his say so Brilliant Proves what you know, he's highly thought of by lots of people and more knowledgeable people than you. Easily one of the best championship midfielders. My Derby Season ticket holding pal only backs it up
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Oct 26, 2016 17:37:06 GMT
Are people ever going to stop touting Geoff as our holding midfield solution? How many times does he have to prove he can't play there on his own? Whelan is helping him out there at the moment as much as vice versa. I dunner think a holding, anchored, caged defender is necessary for every game. Geoff offers summat in the mix.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2016 17:38:22 GMT
Are people ever going to stop touting Geoff as our holding midfield solution? How many times does he have to prove he can't play there on his own? Whelan is helping him out there at the moment as much as vice versa. I dunner think a holding, anchored, caged defender is necessary for every game. Geoff offers summat in the mix. Someone at least providing some sort of effective defensive cover and discipline is though.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2016 17:40:48 GMT
Aah George Thorne You haven't actually watched him have you ?....it's all because your Derby mate rates him highly And you implore the club to get it done on his say so Brilliant Proves what you know, he's highly thought of by lots of people and more knowledgeable people than you. Easily one of the best championship midfielders. My Derby Season ticket holding pal only backs it up When a player is injured as often as Thorne it's largely irrelevant how good he is though unfortunately....
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Oct 26, 2016 17:51:56 GMT
I dunner think a holding, anchored, caged defender is necessary for every game. Geoff offers summat in the mix. Someone at least providing some sort of effective defensive cover and discipline is though. Agree but not a baby sitter.. all the time Chief. Allen was great breaking up stuff higher up etc. Different mixes. Whelan was often seen dropping back into defence to compensate for the flying full backs. We look better at that at the moment.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2016 17:57:25 GMT
Someone at least providing some sort of effective defensive cover and discipline is though. Agree but not a baby sitter.. all the time Chief. Allen was great breaking up stuff higher up etc. Different mixes. Whelan was often seen dropping back into defence to compensate for the flying full backs. We look better at that at the moment. But Allen being higher up the pitch was leaving us hideously exposed at times with just one sitter. That was a big part of the problem in the four goal bashings.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Oct 26, 2016 18:04:52 GMT
Agree but not a baby sitter.. all the time Chief. Allen was great breaking up stuff higher up etc. Different mixes. Whelan was often seen dropping back into defence to compensate for the flying full backs. We look better at that at the moment. But Allen being higher up the pitch was leaving us hideously exposed at times with just one sitter. That was a big part of the problem in the four goal bashings. Disappearing down the rabbit hole here Chief. We missed Shaq and Johnson and Imbula looked phased at times too. Not just one cog down. I loved how Joey defended and grabbed the ball from the front on sat.
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2016 18:06:13 GMT
You really know how to motivate a guy. Completely fucking humiliate him, bet he'd come back and run through brick walls for you not. Still does nothing to justify your double standards on your treatment of your players. If you're sending Imbula on loan to the Championship maybe to be consistent you ought to be sending Bojan to play for a local school instead of promoting him to the starting 11, maybe he'd compete physically there. Utter fuckwittery of the highest order.
He's been here nearly a year now and he's not even getting a sniff of our bench, I can't see how sending him out on loan would necessarily be any more demotivating.
I'm not saying that he should go out on loan (I'll leave that for Hughes to decide) but surely the lad would rather be playing some football at least, rather than being frozen out completely?
Hughes is giving him a kick up the arse, making all the right noises "knows he has to work hard" "training well" "will be starting games again soon" basically dressing it up as tactfully as he can. I don't believe a word of it, I can't see anyway that Imbula has been that much poorer than a lot of the others to warrant being completely out of a matchday squad including Crouch, Walters, Adam, Bojan, Given. To me he's got to have shown a poor attitude to being out of the starting 11, in fact I've seen him react poorly to being subbed not long before he was dropped. I think Hughes is dealing with it in the correct way, he's put a shot across his bows now he's giving it a bit of time to sink in and hopefully show results. Completely humiliating him by sending him on loan to the Championship carrying an £18M price tag would be totally counter productive and possibly leave their relationship unworkable.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 26, 2016 18:06:21 GMT
Are people ever ugoing to stop touting Geoff as our holding midfield solution? How many times does he have to prove he can't play there on his own? Whelan is helping him out there at the moment as much as vice versa. He's a footballing God now Rob. If we are playing one holding midfielder to get a proper number 10 in to support Bony (which is what you've be crying out for) then he's a better option than Whelan especially as we have winnable games ahead.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2016 18:07:22 GMT
He's a footballing God now Rob. If we are playing one binding midfielder to get a proper number 10 in to support Bony (which is what you've be crying out for) then he's a better option than Whelan especially as we have winnable games ahead. Why is he? He's never been a better option before, what makes him one now?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 26, 2016 18:08:49 GMT
If we are playing one binding midfielder to get a proper number 10 in to support Bony (which is what you've be crying out for) then he's a better option than Whelan especially as we have winnable games ahead. Why is he? He's never been a better option before, what makes him one now? He's younger, more athletic and on form.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 26, 2016 18:09:47 GMT
He's a footballing God now Rob. If we are playing one holding midfielder to get a proper number 10 in to support Bony (which is what you've be crying out for) then he's a better option than Whelan especially as we have winnable games ahead. No he's not.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2016 18:11:07 GMT
But Allen being higher up the pitch was leaving us hideously exposed at times with just one sitter. That was a big part of the problem in the four goal bashings. Disappearing down the rabbit hole here Chief. We missed Shaq and Johnson and Imbula looked phased at times too. Not just one cog down. I loved how Joey defended and grabbed the ball from the front on sat. I never said it was just one cog. Hence saying it was a big part of the problem, as opposed to the whole problem. Allen had protection on Sat. That's how we've turned a weakness into a strength. It's not so much disappearing down a rabbit hole as sticking your head in the sand about the bits of the problem you don't want to worry about.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 26, 2016 18:13:27 GMT
Why is he? He's never been a better option before, what makes him one now? He's younger, more athletic and on form. He's 18 months younger. And when he's played the holding role alone he's hardly ever done well there. It works at the moment because both of them are sharing the load.
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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 26, 2016 18:14:55 GMT
Neither Whelan nor Geoff is the whole answer in the team as a CDM, which is why we are playing both right now, to effectively do one job. At some stage, if we are to start to release the shackles and try to be a bit more expansive again, we have to, in the short term, choose which one to start, and in the long term, replace both of them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2016 18:24:45 GMT
Points before the change = 1 from 15 Points after the change = 8 from 12 Chances created before the change = very few Chances created after the change = a lot more Chances conceded before the change = way too many Chances conceded after the change = a hell of a lot less Player reputations, transfer fees count for nothing, nor does an ideology based on people's perceived strengths and weaknesses. All that matters is that if we keep up our form and points tally over the coming weeks there is absolutely no need for change. If it turns out to be an upturn based on the quality of the opposition and we get exposed over a period of games then back to the drawing board. But we have a number of confidence players in that team, so add a fit Butland and Johnson to the current crop and a fit(ter) and firing Bony and who's to say a solid system won't become an absolutely perfect system? That's the beauty of football I guess it's not played on paper.....
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 26, 2016 18:25:39 GMT
So all of the above can be easily summarised. A fucking horrific 18 months for the Pizza Boys. We still haven't replaced N'Zonzi, we haven't even tried to replace Whelan and we have a player (our best current player) playing in a system that still needs a number 10 but he isn't really playing number 10 whilst we have two number tens on the bench and one in the stands.
Well done to everyone involved.
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2016 18:33:35 GMT
Neither Whelan nor Geoff is the whole answer in the team as a CDM, which is why we are playing both right now, to effectively do one job. At some stage, if we are to start to release the shackles and try to be a bit more expansive again, we have to, in the short term, choose which one to start, and in the long term, replace both of them. We only need to replace one of them if we get the CDM right we've got plenty of options for the other midfield roles. I fully expect and understand Hughes leaving things as they are. Personally I wouldn't be able to and would have to try Cameron with either Imbula (under instruction to work harder without the ball) or Allen (under instruction to be more positionally disciplined). I couldn't leave it, its bugging me too much but there again I'm a much less cautious person than Hughes.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Oct 26, 2016 18:37:26 GMT
So all of the above can be easily summarised. A fucking horrific 18 months for the Pizza Boys. We still haven't replaced N'Zonzi, we haven't even tried to replace Whelan and we have a player (our best current player) playing in a system that still needs a number 10 but he isn't really playing number 10 whilst we have two number tens on the bench and one in the stands. Well done to everyone involved. Yes that's true too. But Shaq and Arnie are the envy of the Prem. Looks like we're providing a better platform for them too.
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2016 18:38:23 GMT
So all of the above can be easily summarised. A fucking horrific 18 months for the Pizza Boys. We still haven't replaced N'Zonzi, we haven't even tried to replace Whelan and we have a player (our best current player) playing in a system that still needs a number 10 but he isn't really playing number 10 whilst we have two number tens on the bench and one in the stands. Well done to everyone involved. We don't we have 1 No10 on the bench and 1 on the wing. The others you speak of are just regular midfielders struggling to operate in a team where the CDM in the team soley for his defensive attributes is a country fucking mile off the pace.
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Post by roylandstoke on Oct 26, 2016 18:39:31 GMT
So all of the above can be easily summarised. A fucking horrific 18 months for the Pizza Boys. We still haven't replaced N'Zonzi, we haven't even tried to replace Whelan and we have a player (our best current player) playing in a system that still needs a number 10 but he isn't really playing number 10 whilst we have two number tens on the bench and one in the stands. Well done to everyone involved. Most teams in the league would have struggled to replace N'Zonzi. He remains the best player I have seen for Stoke since Alan Hudson. He is currently playing for one of the best teams in Europe and would walk into any team in the Premiership. All of the above does not mean we shouldn't be trying harder to get a younger more mobile player, who can keep the ball, into our midfield. Sadly the price for such a player in the current player is well over the £18M we paid for Imbulla. Bargains like Joe Allen are few and far between.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 26, 2016 18:54:53 GMT
So all of the above can be easily summarised. A fucking horrific 18 months for the Pizza Boys. We still haven't replaced N'Zonzi, we haven't even tried to replace Whelan and we have a player (our best current player) playing in a system that still needs a number 10 but he isn't really playing number 10 whilst we have two number tens on the bench and one in the stands. Well done to everyone involved. We don't we have 1 No10 on the bench and 1 on the wing. The others you speak of are just regular midfielders struggling to operate in a team where the CDM in the team soley for his defensive attributes is a country fucking mile off the pace. The other midfielder on the bench and the one in the stand can only operate in a number 10 in a Hughes side.
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2016 19:04:07 GMT
We don't we have 1 No10 on the bench and 1 on the wing. The others you speak of are just regular midfielders struggling to operate in a team where the CDM in the team soley for his defensive attributes is a country fucking mile off the pace. The other midfielder on the bench and the one in the stand can only operate in a number 10 in a Hughes side. They're not No10's, Adam is no more a No10 in a Hughes side than he was in a Pulis side. It was a failed experiment bought about by signing a player his system was incapable of incorporating . Imbula's no No10 either he'll either learn to work harder off the ball and return to the box to box role or he'll go back to the continent and resume his career in a deeper midfield role there.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 26, 2016 19:16:58 GMT
He's been here nearly a year now and he's not even getting a sniff of our bench, I can't see how sending him out on loan would necessarily be any more demotivating.
I'm not saying that he should go out on loan (I'll leave that for Hughes to decide) but surely the lad would rather be playing some football at least, rather than being frozen out completely?
Hughes is giving him a kick up the arse, making all the right noises "knows he has to work hard" "training well" "will be starting games again soon" basically dressing it up as tactfully as he can. I don't believe a word of it, I can't see anyway that Imbula has been that much poorer than a lot of the others to warrant being completely out of a matchday squad including Crouch, Walters, Adam, Bojan, Given. To me he's got to have shown a poor attitude to being out of the starting 11, in fact I've seen him react poorly to being subbed not long before he was dropped. I think Hughes is dealing with it in the correct way, he's put a shot across his bows now he's giving it a bit of time to sink in and hopefully show results. Completely humiliating him by sending him on loan to the Championship carrying an £18M price tag would be totally counter productive and possibly leave their relationship unworkable.
To be fair that's a heck of a lot of assumptions you've made there.
On the face of it I don't think there's any reason to think that your assumptions are anymore valid than Hacket's.
I guess then you expect to see Imbula back in the picture within a match or two then?
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Post by werrington on Oct 26, 2016 19:27:30 GMT
Aah George Thorne You haven't actually watched him have you ?....it's all because your Derby mate rates him highly And you implore the club to get it done on his say so Brilliant Proves what you know, he's highly thought of by lots of people and more knowledgeable people than you. Easily one of the best championship midfielders. My Derby Season ticket holding pal only backs it up I'll tell you exactly what I know I know that many of your posts ridicule permanently injured ( in your mind anyway ) players and Hughes for signing ( again in your mind ) injured players yet you want us to sign George fucking Thorne whose been out long term with injuries You then state above that we need no more midfield players and in the same post throw his name forward as somebody we should sign !! I've no axe to grind with George Thorne but the irregularities in your posts go from the bizarre to the ridiculous Let's leave it there eh
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