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Post by alster on Oct 25, 2016 13:07:52 GMT
No only season long loans allowed, Ie to end of this season or next no such thing as a half season loan. We would have to get rid or make perm one of the other two. Perm Indi and loan Schneiderlin. January the first. Two positions we've desperately been trying to fill. We finish in the top ten and offer Morgan a full time 5 year contract as the penned in DM starter. BOSH !! Thats certainly within the rules anyway. I'd take Schniderlin over Whelan everyday, just think we could find a more suitable DM for our needs.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Oct 25, 2016 14:25:43 GMT
He'll think he is too good for us, and they will want most of their money back. Even then, I am not sure he is the DM beast most of us think we need. Many know who I want.......only 7m too! Don't bloody start
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 25, 2016 14:38:51 GMT
He'll think he is too good for us, and they will want most of their money back. Even then, I am not sure he is the DM beast most of us think we need. Many know who I want.......only 7m too! Who?
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Post by nott1 on Oct 25, 2016 14:47:34 GMT
Who?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 25, 2016 14:49:47 GMT
He'll think he is too good for us, and they will want most of their money back. Even then, I am not sure he is the DM beast most of us think we need. Many know who I want.......only 7m too! Who? I think he's on about M'Vila.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 25, 2016 14:56:26 GMT
I think he's on about M'Vila. Again though isn't he more of a box to box? The brick wall in that Sunderland side under Sam was Kirchoff. I thought he was a real revelation in front of their back.
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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 25, 2016 15:00:39 GMT
I think he's on about M'Vila. Again though isn't he more of a box to box? The brick wall in that Sunderland side under Sam was Kirchoff. I thought he was a real revelation in front of their back. Wiki words of wisdom: Yann Gérard M'Vila operates primarily as a defensive midfielder, and is described by a former club as a player who possesses "excellent defensive abilities" and "impressive physical strength", but can also play as a box-to-box midfielder, due to his impressive work rates and stamina.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 25, 2016 15:03:29 GMT
Again though isn't he more of a box to box? The brick wall in that Sunderland side under Sam was Kirchoff. I thought he was a real revelation in front of their back. Wiki words of wisdom: Yann Gérard M'Vila operates primarily as a defensive midfielder, and is described by a former club as a player who possesses "excellent defensive abilities" and "impressive physical strength", but can also play as a box-to-box midfielder, due to his impressive work rates and stamina. Yeah and people would say that about Cameron and N'Zonzi but you wouldn't trust them doing what Kirchoff did. Would you trust M'Villa do it? No idea I've not watched him that closely. But I think the midfield needs a massive overhaul anyway.
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Post by datguy on Oct 25, 2016 15:05:27 GMT
Wiki words of wisdom: Yann Gérard M'Vila operates primarily as a defensive midfielder, and is described by a former club as a player who possesses "excellent defensive abilities" and "impressive physical strength", but can also play as a box-to-box midfielder, due to his impressive work rates and stamina. Yeah and people would say that about Cameron and N'Zonzi but you wouldn't trust them doing what Kirchoff did. Would you trust M'Villa do it? No idea I've not watched him that closely. But I think the midfield needs a massive overhaul anyway. Injury prone like but I think he'd be perfect.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 25, 2016 15:07:30 GMT
Yeah and people would say that about Cameron and N'Zonzi but you wouldn't trust them doing what Kirchoff did. Would you trust M'Villa do it? No idea I've not watched him that closely. But I think the midfield needs a massive overhaul anyway. Injury prone like but I think he'd be perfect. Me too. He's just a brick wall. Wins the ball, passes it simple, wins an header etc. Perfect for what we need.
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Post by alster on Oct 25, 2016 15:08:53 GMT
Wiki words of wisdom: Yann Gérard M'Vila operates primarily as a defensive midfielder, and is described by a former club as a player who possesses "excellent defensive abilities" and "impressive physical strength", but can also play as a box-to-box midfielder, due to his impressive work rates and stamina. Yeah and people would say that about Cameron and N'Zonzi but you wouldn't trust them doing what Kirchoff did. Would you trust M'Villa do it? No idea I've not watched him that closely. But I think the midfield needs a massive overhaul anyway. Not really if you replace Whelan well we have the other players to operate any other system (current system would probably require 2 new CDM's but I'm convinced its overkill anyway) the manager is likely to adopt.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 25, 2016 15:09:03 GMT
Again though isn't he more of a box to box? The brick wall in that Sunderland side under Sam was Kirchoff. I thought he was a real revelation in front of their back. Wiki words of wisdom: Yann Gérard M'Vila operates primarily as a defensive midfielder, and is described by a former club as a player who possesses "excellent defensive abilities" and "impressive physical strength", but can also play as a box-to-box midfielder, due to his impressive work rates and stamina. There are different shades of defensive midfielder though Jezza. It's a broad term. Nzonzi could be classed by some as a defensive midfielder because he plays as one of the deeper two and he protects the ball well. He's not a holding midfielder though, who screens the back four.
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Post by alster on Oct 25, 2016 15:09:33 GMT
Injury prone like but I think he'd be perfect. Me too. He's just a brick wall. Wins the ball, passes it simple, wins an header etc. Perfect for what we need. How old?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 25, 2016 15:13:04 GMT
Yeah and people would say that about Cameron and N'Zonzi but you wouldn't trust them doing what Kirchoff did. Would you trust M'Villa do it? No idea I've not watched him that closely. But I think the midfield needs a massive overhaul anyway. Not really if you replace Whelan well we have the other players to operate any other system (current system would probably require 2 new CDM's but I'm convinced its overkill anyway) the manager is likely to adopt. Cameron shouldn't be a regular in the Premier League. Allen hasn't shown he has the discipline to play the second cm role but it's worth another shot. And he can't link up with the striker in his current role. Imbula-God knows! Bojan-God knows! So Whelan definitely needs replacing. Cameron isn't a long term option. Allen isn't where he's playing now, he could be deeper. And then the other two are just unknown with what we can expect. It's the area of the pitch that I look at and think long term we have no real plan and idea what to do.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 25, 2016 15:13:45 GMT
Me too. He's just a brick wall. Wins the ball, passes it simple, wins an header etc. Perfect for what we need. How old? 26
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 25, 2016 15:16:16 GMT
William Carvalho is the man we need.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 25, 2016 15:18:09 GMT
William Carvalho is the man we need. He'd be some signing!
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Post by datguy on Oct 25, 2016 15:22:07 GMT
William Carvalho would surely be out of our league?
Saying that, WBA were apparently interested in the Summer.
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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 25, 2016 15:22:22 GMT
Wiki words of wisdom: Yann Gérard M'Vila operates primarily as a defensive midfielder, and is described by a former club as a player who possesses "excellent defensive abilities" and "impressive physical strength", but can also play as a box-to-box midfielder, due to his impressive work rates and stamina. There are different shades of defensive midfielder though Jezza. It's a broad term. Nzonzi could be classed by some as a defensive midfielder because he plays as one of the deeper two and he protects the ball well. He's not a holding midfielder though, who screens the back four. If you want a Whelan sitter, no, he is not, but I would prefer a bit more mobility and technical ability in my central midfielder anyway. With Joe alongside him, both could be mobile but still patrol the central areas and give defensive cover. To me a sitter/holder is almost like playing a sweeper, but in front of, not behind, the centre halves. He provides protection, sure, but the best central midfielders can pick a pass, retain possession, cover the ground in patrolling central areas as well. Look at Kante at Chelsea. If we play one midfielder just to sit, it uses one player to do only part of what a central midfielder can, and should, be able to do.
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Post by alster on Oct 25, 2016 15:25:49 GMT
William Carvalho is the man we need. He'd be some signing! Really Impressive at the Euro's. Was linked with a number of clubs, did he move?
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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 25, 2016 15:30:49 GMT
William Carvalho would surely be out of our league? Saying that, WBA were apparently interested in the Summer. That was just a TP wish list, so when he inevitably didn't sign, he could say that at least he tried! He was never going to WBA in a month of Sundays. If he moves, it will be to a Champions League club.
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Post by alster on Oct 25, 2016 15:40:26 GMT
There are different shades of defensive midfielder though Jezza. It's a broad term. Nzonzi could be classed by some as a defensive midfielder because he plays as one of the deeper two and he protects the ball well. He's not a holding midfielder though, who screens the back four. If you want a Whelan sitter, no, he is not, but I would prefer a bit more mobility and technical ability in my central midfielder anyway. With Joe alongside him, both could be mobile but still patrol the central areas and give defensive cover. To me a sitter/holder is almost like playing a sweeper, but in front of, not behind, the centre halves. He provides protection, sure, but the best central midfielders can pick a pass, retain possession, cover the ground in patrolling central areas as well. Look at Kante at Chelsea. If we play one midfielder just to sit, it uses one player to do only part of what a central midfielder can, and should, be able to do. I know what you mean I'm not a fan of players without some sort of standout qualities in there (or anywhere else for that matter). If you have to have a CDM that just sits I'd prefer one thats more of a very mobile centre half type like Dier who brings height and physicality into the mix with defensive nouse and positional discipline. I really don't like the whelan model of a player who just sits and doesn't command the centre of the pitch because he's not that physical, isn't much use at set pieces because he's not very tall, isn't good on the ball in tight situations or at spotting a progressive pass. Call it an agenda or anything you want I just don't rate the bloke very highly as a Premier League footballer.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 25, 2016 15:40:39 GMT
There are different shades of defensive midfielder though Jezza. It's a broad term. Nzonzi could be classed by some as a defensive midfielder because he plays as one of the deeper two and he protects the ball well. He's not a holding midfielder though, who screens the back four. If you want a Whelan sitter, no, he is not, but I would prefer a bit more mobility and technical ability in my central midfielder anyway. With Joe alongside him, both could be mobile but still patrol the central areas and give defensive cover. To me a sitter/holder is almost like playing a sweeper, but in front of, not behind, the centre halves. He provides protection, sure, but the best central midfielders can pick a pass, retain possession, cover the ground in patrolling central areas as well. Look at Kante at Chelsea. If we play one midfielder just to sit, it uses one player to do only part of what a central midfielder can, and should, be able to do. Kante is exactly the kind of player we need as a Whelan upgrade, a beast who's mobile enough to do the job that Whelan and Cameron are doing between them. You'd still need either someone pretty disciplined alongside that player though (as Kante had at Leicester in Drinkwater and has at Chelsea in Matic) or you'd have to get Allen to reign it in a bit, which we're yet to see him really be able to do. Hopefully that's what we're currently remoulding Imbula into being.
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Post by superheroantonius on Oct 25, 2016 16:03:29 GMT
given mourinho's previous ...
doesn't rate Arnautovic, Kevin De Bruyne and Lukaku
Must be good !
Sign him up !
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Post by alster on Oct 25, 2016 18:45:19 GMT
If you want a Whelan sitter, no, he is not, but I would prefer a bit more mobility and technical ability in my central midfielder anyway. With Joe alongside him, both could be mobile but still patrol the central areas and give defensive cover. To me a sitter/holder is almost like playing a sweeper, but in front of, not behind, the centre halves. He provides protection, sure, but the best central midfielders can pick a pass, retain possession, cover the ground in patrolling central areas as well. Look at Kante at Chelsea. If we play one midfielder just to sit, it uses one player to do only part of what a central midfielder can, and should, be able to do. Kante is exactly the kind of player we need as a Whelan upgrade, a beast who's mobile enough to do the job that Whelan and Cameron are doing between them. You'd still need either someone pretty disciplined alongside that player though (as Kante had at Leicester in Drinkwater and has at Chelsea in Matic) or you'd have to get Allen to reign it in a bit, which we're yet to see him really be able to do. Hopefully that's what we're currently remoulding Imbula into being. Allen plays a deeper more disciplined role for Wales just fine, its nonsense to suggest he's only capable of playing the most advanced midfield role. Its a completely new phenomenon in his professional career. Its been necessitated by Whelan's lack of energy and mobility to fulfill his own role properly.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 25, 2016 19:00:20 GMT
Really Impressive at the Euro's. Was linked with a number of clubs, did he move? No none of the big boys pulled the trigger, which makes me think we'd have a chance. Everton came closest but baulked at the £25 million release clause. He is EXACTLY the type of player we currently need and at a 30% premium on what we paid for Imbula, surely not at all out of our range. And yes he was excellent in the Euros, thinking back, in the Austria match he demonstrated exactly what we would need to replace both Glenn and Geoff.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 25, 2016 19:02:31 GMT
Kante is exactly the kind of player we need as a Whelan upgrade, a beast who's mobile enough to do the job that Whelan and Cameron are doing between them. You'd still need either someone pretty disciplined alongside that player though (as Kante had at Leicester in Drinkwater and has at Chelsea in Matic) or you'd have to get Allen to reign it in a bit, which we're yet to see him really be able to do. Hopefully that's what we're currently remoulding Imbula into being. Allen plays a deeper more disciplined role for Wales just fine, its nonsense to suggest he's only capable of playing the most advanced midfield role. Its a completely new phenomenon in his professional career. Its been necessitated by Whelan's lack of energy and mobility to fulfill his own role properly. Sorry, that just isn't what we saw against Man City, Everton or Palace. It can't be down to Allen when he plays well and whoever the designated scapegoat is when he doesn't. In each of those games he went windmilling off around the pitch as he does and it left us painfully exposed and overrun. Whelan is struggling so he does need someone disciplined to share the load. Now we have that, even if both of the players in those positions are limited and sticking plasters, we've turned Allen's high energy action man routine into our chief asset.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 25, 2016 19:08:30 GMT
Allen plays a deeper more disciplined role for Wales just fine, its nonsense to suggest he's only capable of playing the most advanced midfield role. Its a completely new phenomenon in his professional career. Its been necessitated by Whelan's lack of energy and mobility to fulfill his own role properly. Sorry, that just isn't what we saw against Man City, Everton or Palace. It can't be down to Allen when he plays well and whoever the designated scapegoat is when he doesn't. In each of those games he went windmilling off around the pitch as he does and it left us painfully exposed and overrun. Whelan is struggling so he does need someone disciplined to share the load. Now we have that, even if both of the players in those positions are limited and sticking plasters, we've turned Allen's high energy action man routine into our chief asset. Could he have just been following managers orders though? It does seem pretty out of character from the rest of his career.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 25, 2016 19:09:36 GMT
Sorry, that just isn't what we saw against Man City, Everton or Palace. It can't be down to Allen when he plays well and whoever the designated scapegoat is when he doesn't. In each of those games he went windmilling off around the pitch as he does and it left us painfully exposed and overrun. Whelan is struggling so he does need someone disciplined to share the load. Now we have that, even if both of the players in those positions are limited and sticking plasters, we've turned Allen's high energy action man routine into our chief asset. Could he have just been following managers orders though? It does seem pretty out of character from the rest of his career. I've really started to wonder at times this season if 'manager's orders' doesn't really happen much under Mark Hughes.
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Post by Clem Fandango on Oct 25, 2016 19:20:18 GMT
Could he have just been following managers orders though? It does seem pretty out of character from the rest of his career. I've really started to wonder at times this season if 'manager's orders' doesn't really happen much under Mark Hughes. Has it been quoted a few times that to a degree the manager lets players get on with it? I'm sure Muni alluded to it by referring to a lack of tactics and maybe Annie or Shaq said something similar
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