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Post by nott1 on Nov 7, 2016 12:04:20 GMT
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Post by FullerMagic on Nov 7, 2016 12:07:38 GMT
link“Winning tackles, distributing with heat-seeking millimetre-precise passes, dictating the pace of the game, consistently choosing the right options and the rallying point for his team.
“If there’s a better central midfield player in Europe’s big leagues this season then I’ve not seen him - Kroos, Busquets, Gundögen, Thiago, Verratti, Matic, Khedira et al included.”
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 7, 2016 12:13:23 GMT
Sorry if this has been answered already. Was there a sell on clause put into the contract when N'Zonzi was sold? If so, what percentage? If not - why not?
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Post by wearepremierleague on Nov 7, 2016 12:14:30 GMT
Not that great a player for Stoke, perhaps because he didn't want to play for us. wrong
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Post by werrington on Nov 7, 2016 12:33:05 GMT
Sorry if this has been answered already. Was there a sell on clause put into the contract when N'Zonzi was sold? If so, what percentage? If not - why not? All parties have to agree to it Nzonzi was brilliant but if we hadn't took the money we would of had a player who would leave for nothing but also a player who bizarrely many Stoke fans never actually rated ...One or two bad games and they would of turned on him with booing and greedy bastard chants Indeed only 5 months prior at Sunderland the away stand was toxic towards him as he turned back to face his own goal along with WHU at home ( 2-2 ) when he did the same thing but a goal came from it Now those same ones are bemoaning him leaving and knocking the club for it
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Post by nott1 on Nov 7, 2016 12:40:59 GMT
Where's the French manager, on his holidays?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 7, 2016 13:11:17 GMT
Sorry if this has been answered already. Was there a sell on clause put into the contract when N'Zonzi was sold? If so, what percentage? If not - why not? All parties have to agree to it Nzonzi was brilliant but if we hadn't took the money we would of had a player who would leave for nothing but also a player who bizarrely many Stoke fans never actually rated ...One or two bad games and they would of turned on him with booing and greedy bastard chants Indeed only 5 months prior at Sunderland the away stand was toxic towards him as he turned back to face his own goal along with WHU at home ( 2-2 ) when he did the same thing but a goal came from it Now those same ones are bemoaning him leaving and knocking the club for it I'm assuming that you think there was no such clause, although you haven't actually said so? Also, I'm not sure that the player has to agree to a sell on clause - although he obviously has to agree to a subsequent sale for it to be triggered. The buying and selling clubs have to agree - as it obviously affects both of them. But it doesn't affect the player - unless the contract also included a clause giving him a cut of the subsequent sale price. I certainly can't see any reason why Stoke would not try to insert a sell on clause when they sold N'Zonzi. Obviously Sevilla would not be obliged to agree to it - but that is no reason not to try. Plenty of players are sold with sell on clauses - both within a country and between countries. Are you absolutely sure there was no such clause?
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Post by werrington on Nov 7, 2016 13:17:54 GMT
All parties have to agree to it Nzonzi was brilliant but if we hadn't took the money we would of had a player who would leave for nothing but also a player who bizarrely many Stoke fans never actually rated ...One or two bad games and they would of turned on him with booing and greedy bastard chants Indeed only 5 months prior at Sunderland the away stand was toxic towards him as he turned back to face his own goal along with WHU at home ( 2-2 ) when he did the same thing but a goal came from it Now those same ones are bemoaning him leaving and knocking the club for it I'm assuming that you think there was no such clause, although you haven't actually said so? Also, I'm not sure that the player has to agree to a sell on clause - although he obviously has to agree to a subsequent sale for it to be triggered. The buying and selling clubs have to agree - as it obviously affects both of them. But it doesn't affect the player - unless the contract also included a clause giving him a cut of the subsequent sale price. I certainly can't see any reason why Stoke would not try to insert a sell on clause when they sold N'Zonzi. Obviously Sevilla would not be obliged to agree to it - but that is no reason not to try. Plenty of players are sold with sell on clauses - both within a country and between countries. Are you absolutely sure there was no such clause? No I'm not but I know we had a player who wanted to leave and a club who wanted and were prepared to wait for him as they had done that already Why would Seville agree to that when they knew they had a valuable player and who knew they had him ?
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Nov 7, 2016 13:37:41 GMT
link“Winning tackles, distributing with heat-seeking millimetre-precise passes, dictating the pace of the game, consistently choosing the right options and the rallying point for his team.
“If there’s a better central midfield player in Europe’s big leagues this season then I’ve not seen him - Kroos, Busquets, Gundögen, Thiago, Verratti, Matic, Khedira et al included.” He'd be a big upgrade on Rakitic imho.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 7, 2016 15:44:15 GMT
I'm assuming that you think there was no such clause, although you haven't actually said so? Also, I'm not sure that the player has to agree to a sell on clause - although he obviously has to agree to a subsequent sale for it to be triggered. The buying and selling clubs have to agree - as it obviously affects both of them. But it doesn't affect the player - unless the contract also included a clause giving him a cut of the subsequent sale price. I certainly can't see any reason why Stoke would not try to insert a sell on clause when they sold N'Zonzi. Obviously Sevilla would not be obliged to agree to it - but that is no reason not to try. Plenty of players are sold with sell on clauses - both within a country and between countries. Are you absolutely sure there was no such clause? No I'm not but I know we had a player who wanted to leave and a club who wanted and were prepared to wait for him as they had done that already Why would Seville agree to that when they knew they had a valuable player and who knew they had him ? Seville wanted him for their foray into the Champs League - waiting would deny them the chance to use him that season - although they would, of course get him for free the following season - BUT ONLY IF NO OTHER CLUB MADE HIM A BETTER OFFER! So, it might have suited them to agree to, say, a 25% sell on clause. After all many transfers do take place with sell on clauses - especially if the sale is at an artificially cheap price such as in the last year of the player's contract for example. Anyway, if you don't know if there was such a clause, I am no further forward in getting an answer to my question?
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Nov 7, 2016 15:54:05 GMT
There was no sell-on clause. When was the last time Stoke received money from a sell-on clause of any player? Probably Kris Commons or something else about 10 years ago.
We dont seem to do sell-on clauses especially with the canny negotiators at Sevilla
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Nov 7, 2016 15:56:27 GMT
Sorry if this has been answered already. Was there a sell on clause put into the contract when N'Zonzi was sold? If so, what percentage? If not - why not? All parties have to agree to it Nzonzi was brilliant but if we hadn't took the money we would of had a player who would leave for nothing but also a player who bizarrely many Stoke fans never actually rated ...One or two bad games and they would of turned on him with booing and greedy bastard chants Indeed only 5 months prior at Sunderland the away stand was toxic towards him as he turned back to face his own goal along with WHU at home ( 2-2 ) when he did the same thing but a goal came from it Now those same ones are bemoaning him leaving and knocking the club for it a post from Werrington moaning at Stoke fans, with the entirely predictable LIKE from Pwongy. Pwingy do you only come on the oatcake to slag off your fellow supporters? You never actually comment on Stoke
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Post by werrington on Nov 7, 2016 16:04:25 GMT
All parties have to agree to it Nzonzi was brilliant but if we hadn't took the money we would of had a player who would leave for nothing but also a player who bizarrely many Stoke fans never actually rated ...One or two bad games and they would of turned on him with booing and greedy bastard chants Indeed only 5 months prior at Sunderland the away stand was toxic towards him as he turned back to face his own goal along with WHU at home ( 2-2 ) when he did the same thing but a goal came from it Now those same ones are bemoaning him leaving and knocking the club for it a post from Werrington moaning at Stoke fans, with the entirely predictable LIKE from Pwongy. Pwingy do you only come on the oatcake to slag off your fellow supporters? You never actually comment on Stoke I'm wrong about Sunderland and WHU then ?
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Nov 7, 2016 16:18:06 GMT
a post from Werrington moaning at Stoke fans, with the entirely predictable LIKE from Pwongy. Pwingy do you only come on the oatcake to slag off your fellow supporters? You never actually comment on Stoke I'm wrong about Sunderland and WHU then ? No it wasnt really aimed at you Werrington, more aimed at Pwingy - he only likes posts that slag off fellow Stokies. Im starting to think hes a secret agent sent by the Vale to stir dissent amongst the Stoke masses. He literally NEVER comments on football itself
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Post by FriendlyLCFC on Nov 7, 2016 16:45:53 GMT
We still want him, and we've wanted him for a while now I believe. But with the talk of Barcelona interested, of course I'm not so sure now whether we will get his signature.
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Post by thebet365 on Nov 7, 2016 16:49:27 GMT
There was no sell-on clause. When was the last time Stoke received money from a sell-on clause of any player? Probably Kris Commons or something else about 10 years ago. We dont seem to do sell-on clauses especially with the canny negotiators at Sevilla More the question of when was the last time we sold a player that then went on to better things and got sold for more money ?
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Post by Northy on Nov 7, 2016 17:05:27 GMT
We still want him, and we've wanted him for a while now I believe. But with the talk of Barcelona interested, of course I'm not so sure now whether we will get his signature. clucking bells, did you seriously think he would go to Leicester, everybody knows what you did last season was a one off Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 7, 2016 17:13:41 GMT
Said it since the day it happened we gave him away , when we didn't have to and its increasing looking like the worst piece of business we will ever do which is saying something .
We bought Shaq for more , sold Bego for more , Paid ni on the same for Joselu ,paid more for crouch and Palacios , nearly 75% as much for Marc Wilson , we were naive in the extreme and i think our stance over Arnie this summer gone shows the chairman knew it and had had enough.
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Post by werrington on Nov 7, 2016 17:19:18 GMT
I'm wrong about Sunderland and WHU then ? No it wasnt really aimed at you Werrington, more aimed at Pwingy - he only likes posts that slag off fellow Stokies. Im starting to think hes a secret agent sent by the Vale to stir dissent amongst the Stoke masses. He literally NEVER comments on football itself I've waited to reply until we had a post like biscuits above mate It's posts like that from people who have absolutely no idea how it all works that piss pwingy ( and many others ) off
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Post by nutterpotter on Nov 7, 2016 17:21:28 GMT
Said it since the day it happened we gave him away , when we didn't have to and its increasing looking like the worst piece of business we will ever do which is saying something . We bought Shaq for more , sold Bego for more , Paid ni on the same for Joselu ,paid more for crouch and Palacios , nearly 75% as much for Marc Wilson , we were naive in the extreme and i think our stance over Arnie this summer gone shows the chairman knew it and had had enough. What's better, £7m or £0?
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Post by datguy on Nov 7, 2016 17:26:56 GMT
We still want him, and we've wanted him for a while now I believe. But with the talk of Barcelona interested, of course I'm not so sure now whether we will get his signature. Barca or Leicester - tough choice...
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 7, 2016 17:29:11 GMT
Said it since the day it happened we gave him away , when we didn't have to and its increasing looking like the worst piece of business we will ever do which is saying something . We bought Shaq for more , sold Bego for more , Paid ni on the same for Joselu ,paid more for crouch and Palacios , nearly 75% as much for Marc Wilson , we were naive in the extreme and i think our stance over Arnie this summer gone shows the chairman knew it and had had enough. What's better, £7m or £0? Name a premier league player at his peak that's seen out here S contract since mcmanamman . The agents simply won't let it happen too much of a risk , the answer as we've learnt with Arnie was resign with a higher release or see it out , he would have signed in September and even if i he didn't we would have had one if Europe S best midfielders for a year , not disimilar to what Bony will cost . ive issued this challenge before abs was told loads saw their contract out but not one name came up so humour me name 2 premier league players between 24 and 27 years old who have rim their contract down and signed for someone on a free .
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Nov 7, 2016 17:37:40 GMT
What's better, £7m or £0? Name a premier league player at his peak that's seen out here S contract since mcmanamman . The agents simply won't let it happen too much of a risk , the answer as we've learnt with Arnie was resign with a higher release or see it out , he would have signed in September and even if i he didn't we would have had one if Europe S best midfielders for a year , not disimilar to what Bony will cost . ive issued this challenge before abs was told loads saw their contract out but not one name came up so humour me name 2 premier league players between 24 and 27 years old who have rim their contract down and signed for someone on a free . Werrington is right. I'm not sure you get how this works.
The reason it doesn't happen is that clubs don't allow it to happen. You are better to get something at the end of a contract than nothing 6 months later.
If N'Zonzi was really keen to go to Sevilla, he could have seen his contract out at Stoke, gone for no transfer fee but probably taken a bigger signing on fee.
It seems like a low transfer fee, but it was realistic given the state of his contract.
West Brom might just dig in with Berahino and not sell in January, but I doubt it. He might go for say £8m when £25 was touted 18 months ago.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 17:46:21 GMT
What's better, £7m or £0? Name a premier league player at his peak that's seen out here S contract since mcmanamman . The agents simply won't let it happen too much of a risk , the answer as we've learnt with Arnie was resign with a higher release or see it out , he would have signed in September and even if i he didn't we would have had one if Europe S best midfielders for a year , not disimilar to what Bony will cost . ive issued this challenge before abs was told loads saw their contract out but not one name came up so humour me name 2 premier league players between 24 and 27 years old who have rim their contract down and signed for someone on a free . Sol Campbell Danny Ings James Milner Brad Freidel
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 7, 2016 17:49:00 GMT
Name a premier league player at his peak that's seen out here S contract since mcmanamman . The agents simply won't let it happen too much of a risk , the answer as we've learnt with Arnie was resign with a higher release or see it out , he would have signed in September and even if i he didn't we would have had one if Europe S best midfielders for a year , not disimilar to what Bony will cost . ive issued this challenge before abs was told loads saw their contract out but not one name came up so humour me name 2 premier league players between 24 and 27 years old who have rim their contract down and signed for someone on a free . Werrington is right. I'm not sure you get how this works.
The reason it doesn't happen is that clubs don't allow it to happen. You are better to get something at the end of a contract than nothing 6 months later.
If N'Zonzi was really keen to go to Sevilla, he could have seen his contract out at Stoke, gone for no transfer fee but probably taken a bigger signing on fee.
It seems like a low transfer fee, but it was realistic given the state of his contract.
West Brom might just dig in with Berahino and not sell in January, but I doubt it. He might go for say £8m when £25 was touted 18 months ago.
Sorry but clubs don't let it happen is precisely the point the Player is not in complete control while under contract , I totally get he could walk for nothing at the end but as you say berahino is a case in point , without the acrimony we didn't have to sell him as he was under contract we chose to sell him for £7.5m in the middle of the window .
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 7, 2016 17:53:03 GMT
Said it since the day it happened we gave him away , when we didn't have to and its increasing looking like the worst piece of business we will ever do which is saying something . We bought Shaq for more , sold Bego for more , Paid ni on the same for Joselu ,paid more for crouch and Palacios , nearly 75% as much for Marc Wilson , we were naive in the extreme and i think our stance over Arnie this summer gone shows the chairman knew it and had had enough. There is one major difference between n'zonzi and Arnie...Arnie never, at any point, expressed a desire to leave. His first choice was always to stay which wasn't the case with n'zonzi or begovic for that matter
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Nov 7, 2016 17:55:21 GMT
I'm confused and maybe out of my depth here.
Are you suggesting we shouldn't have sold him and let him see out his contract?
I'm sure there were great efforts made by the club to get him to sign a new contract, but he knew this would push up his fee/possibly delay his move and he didn't want to.
The reality is that if Austria and Marko had had a great Euro 2016, we would have had a job to hang onto him. He re-signed with Stoke because it was his best option - N'Zonzi had an alternative.
He is a fantastic player, and like a lot of good players, will be even better with top quality players around him.
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Post by Cast no shadow on Nov 7, 2016 17:57:17 GMT
We still want him, and we've wanted him for a while now I believe. But with the talk of Barcelona interested, of course I'm not so sure now whether we will get his signature. You're no better than us, fair play you had a phenomenal season last season but i'd be suprised if you'd finish above us this season. Nzonzi is a class above any mf in the prem, people are now realising that, hope he gets that move to barca. Still a sulky french mard arse but my abdoulaye what a player.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 17:58:29 GMT
And just to prove benji there's bigger more successful clubs than us the world over who have also "let it happen" over the years. You could make a pretty good team from this lot.....
van der Saar - Ajax to Juventus Cafu - Roma to AC Milan Markus Babbel - Bayern Munich to Liverpool Sol Campbell - Spurs to Arseanal Philip Cocu - PSV to Barcelona Andrea Pirlo - AC Milan to Juventus Esteben Cambiasso - Real Madrid to Inter Milan Christophe Metzelder - Dortmund to Real Madrid Michael Ballack - Bayern Munich to Chelsea Henrik Larsson - Celtic to Barcelona Robert Lewandowski - Dortmund to Bayern Munich
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Nov 7, 2016 18:01:43 GMT
And just to prove benji there's bigger more successful clubs than us the world over who have also "let it happen" over the years. You could make a pretty good team from this lot..... van der Saar - Ajax to Juventus Cafu - Roma to AC Milan Markus Babbel - Bayern Munich to Liverpool Sol Campbell - Spurs to Arseanal Philip Cocu - PSV to Barcelona Andrea Pirlo - AC Milan to Juventus Esteben Cambiasso - Real Madrid to Inter Milan Christophe Metzelder - Dortmund to Real Madrid Michael Ballack - Bayern Munich to Chelsea Henrik Larsson - Celtic to Barcelona Robert Lewandowski - Dortmund to Bayern Munich Sorry but you're just talking bollocks. Clubs simply DON'T let it happen.
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