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Post by skip on Sept 18, 2016 17:28:43 GMT
There comes a point when its clear to see that incremental change has had an adverse effect. That, in German, is verschlimmbesserung.
Hughes' arrival brought with it a more optimistic, less cynical footballing approach. New players suggested new ways of playing and when it clicked it was wonderful.
Slowly but surely we improved. Collectively as fans, we discussed the changes, the 'rugby team' tag slowly faded but so did the bear pit atmosphere and the underdog spirit.
But now we appear to have tipped way too far the other way. Hughes' changes have now buckled. The Board need to act with their heads not hearts. It's time to find someone else to recalibrate this squad. Not Pulis for that would be acting with the heart too. Someone with the right blend of pragmatism, experience but with an articulate footballing brain to help get the most of the technically more gifted players in the squad and to encourage the grafters and old hands.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 18, 2016 17:34:45 GMT
There comes a point when its clear to see that incremental change has had an adverse effect. That, in German, is verschlimmbesserung. Hughes' arrival brought with it a more optimistic, less cynical footballing approach. New players suggested new ways of playing and when it clicked it was wonderful. Slowly but surely we improved. Collectively as fans, we discussed the changes, the 'rugby team' tag slowly faded but so did the bear pit atmosphere and the underdog spirit. But now we appear to have tipped way too far the other way. Hughes' changes have now buckled. The Board need to act with their heads not hearts. It's time to find someone else to recalibrate this squad. Not Pulis for that would be acting with the heart too. Someone with the right blend of pragmatism, experience but with an articulate footballing brain to help get the most of the technically more gifted players in the squad and to encourage the grafters and old hands. Superb skip. The man of course would have been big daft, fucking daft, big fucking fat Sam. I believe he's busy. |
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 18, 2016 17:36:22 GMT
Why do the Germans have a word for absolutely fucking everything?.
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 18, 2016 17:37:51 GMT
I call it the "Peter principal "
That says eventually everybody will reach their own level of incompetence
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Post by TexasPotter on Sept 18, 2016 17:39:03 GMT
Why do the Germans have a word for absolutely fucking everything?. Do they have one for shooting old warhorses? |
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Post by loosestools on Sept 18, 2016 17:39:38 GMT
We are lacking grafters, our old hands are now shot, the transition has created imbalance, it might not have been that way if managed properly and therfore is is not a product or incremental change but is down to bad management of the change process. Nice terminology though, might use that term in a management speak bullshit meeting and try to impress the guys with cuff links and brown shoes..
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Post by skip on Sept 18, 2016 17:43:45 GMT
Why do the Germans have a word for absolutely fucking everything?. I think it's something to do with the way language and culture intersect. The English ponder and their language has grown to encourage this. The French are the philosophers and their language reflects this also. The Germans are less philosophical, less self reflective but incredibly good at describing what they see, and their language reflects this too. It leads to the German people being teased for their lack of wit or sense of irony, but they're damned good at coming up with words that mean "oh oh, danger danger, the project has turned to shit." Disclaimer: you may wish to speak to a neuro linguistics expert who specialises in the relationship between cultural identity and language for a more, well, expert reading of the theory but that's the gist of it. |
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Post by skip on Sept 18, 2016 17:45:52 GMT
I call it the "Peter principal " That says eventually everybody will reach their own level of incompetence The Peter Principle in effect is when people like Steve McLaren get the England job. That's different to this. Hughes is more than capable of this job at this level, whereas the 'project' - to improve the football philosophy left by Pulis and make Stoke less reliant on set pieces, playing for a draws, 'bonus game' culture and so on, was a noble project, but it's not working anymore. |
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Post by skip on Sept 18, 2016 17:47:03 GMT
There comes a point when its clear to see that incremental change has had an adverse effect. That, in German, is verschlimmbesserung. Hughes' arrival brought with it a more optimistic, less cynical footballing approach. New players suggested new ways of playing and when it clicked it was wonderful. Slowly but surely we improved. Collectively as fans, we discussed the changes, the 'rugby team' tag slowly faded but so did the bear pit atmosphere and the underdog spirit. But now we appear to have tipped way too far the other way. Hughes' changes have now buckled. The Board need to act with their heads not hearts. It's time to find someone else to recalibrate this squad. Not Pulis for that would be acting with the heart too. Someone with the right blend of pragmatism, experience but with an articulate footballing brain to help get the most of the technically more gifted players in the squad and to encourage the grafters and old hands. Superb skip. The man of course would have been big daft, fucking daft, big fucking fat Sam. I believe he's busy. Thank you Sheik. This is what I believe has happened. I thought it might have done at the start of the season, today was the proof that I didn't want. |
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Post by swampmongrel on Sept 18, 2016 17:47:27 GMT
Similar word in Old English: Forfucksakewhatafuckupering.
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Post by Northy on Sept 18, 2016 17:49:31 GMT
We are lacking grafters, our old hands are now shot, the transition has created imbalance, it might not have been that way if managed properly and therfore is is not a product or incremental change but is down to bad management of the change process. Nice terminology though, might use that term in a management speak bullshit meeting and try to impress the guys with cuff links and brown shoes.. brown shoes  |
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 18, 2016 17:49:55 GMT
I call it the "Peter principal " That says eventually everybody will reach their own level of incompetence The Peter Principle in effect is when people like Steve McLaren get the England job. That's different to this. Hughes is more than capable of this job at this level, whereas the 'project' - to improve the football philosophy left by Pulis and make Stoke less reliant on set pieces, playing for a draws, 'bonus game' culture and so on, was a noble project, but it's not working anymore. That's a reasonable argument skip but in reality he's performing no better than mclaren did for England or Newcastle . |
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Post by loosestools on Sept 18, 2016 17:51:38 GMT
Similar word in Old English: Forfucksakewhatafuckupering. Losttheplotingbigstylefuckupering |
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Sept 18, 2016 17:52:23 GMT
Bang on , we need a modern coach who demands players give everything .
Must be plenty of them Southampton or Watford don't seem to struggle finding one .
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Post by VolvicStokie on Sept 18, 2016 17:54:14 GMT
I'll throw Laudrup into the hat
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Post by skip on Sept 18, 2016 17:54:33 GMT
We are lacking grafters, our old hands are now shot, the transition has created imbalance, it might not have been that way if managed properly and therfore is is not a product or incremental change but is down to bad management of the change process. Nice terminology though, might use that term in a management speak bullshit meeting and try to impress the guys with cuff links and brown shoes.. Fine lines and hairsplitting IMHO. Hughes' project is/was working. He/they made some crucial changes/purchases that have spectacularly backfired. |
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Post by rawli on Sept 18, 2016 17:55:36 GMT
Why do the Germans have a word for absolutely fucking everything?. They don't have one for 'sorry' do they? |
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Post by skip on Sept 18, 2016 17:56:13 GMT
The Peter Principle in effect is when people like Steve McLaren get the England job. That's different to this. Hughes is more than capable of this job at this level, whereas the 'project' - to improve the football philosophy left by Pulis and make Stoke less reliant on set pieces, playing for a draws, 'bonus game' culture and so on, was a noble project, but it's not working anymore. That's a reasonable argument skip but in reality he's performing no better than mclaren did for England or Newcastle . What I meant was that the 'promotion' to England manager was McLaren's Peter Principle moment - it was beyond him. The job of Stoke manager wasn't beyond Hughes, but something has gone badly wrong. |
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Post by skip on Sept 18, 2016 17:57:20 GMT
Why do the Germans have a word for absolutely fucking everything?. They don't have one for 'sorry' do they? No, because sorrow is a philosophical emotive state not a physical one. Or something borderline comedy xenophobic. |
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Post by dieguito88 on Sept 18, 2016 17:57:33 GMT
I'll throw Laudrup into the hat Really good shout |
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 18, 2016 17:59:43 GMT
"Someone with the right blend of pragmatism, experience but with an articulate footballing brain to help get the most of the technically more gifted players in the squad and to encourage the grafters and old hands"
We should be looking for the new Ronald Koeman then.
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Post by loosestools on Sept 18, 2016 18:00:17 GMT
We are lacking grafters, our old hands are now shot, the transition has created imbalance, it might not have been that way if managed properly and therfore is is not a product or incremental change but is down to bad management of the change process. Nice terminology though, might use that term in a management speak bullshit meeting and try to impress the guys with cuff links and brown shoes.. Fine lines and hairsplitting IMHO. Hughes' project is/was working. He/they made some crucial changes/purchases that have spectacularly backfired. Yes but is that a natural end to the project or poor management of the project? Could the outcome have been different? |
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Post by skip on Sept 18, 2016 18:05:57 GMT
Fine lines and hairsplitting IMHO. Hughes' project is/was working. He/they made some crucial changes/purchases that have spectacularly backfired. Yes but is that a natural end to the project or poor management of the project? Could the outcome have been different? Difficult to say. I think the long term aim remains the same but Hughes' project (read: attempt to take the project forward) hasn't simply stalled but is taking us backwards towards a position worse than the one he inherited. That's what feels like such a massive kick in the sack when I'm trying to think of positive things to take away from today. The outcome could have been different but how many factors have impacted so unfavourably on the project too; injuries to Butland most definitely, the one to Glen Johnson too, but also things within his control such as taking a more cyclical test and repeat attitude towards the starting XI. Hughes hasn't done himself any favours there at all. He has persisted or shown faith in with Pulis-era battlers to gel with the European talent, and maybe the likes of Whelan and Walters have run out of steam quicker than he thought they would. Steven Nzonzi was hell bent on leaving. What was Hughes supposed to do? Kidnap him and silence his brother? And this was literally days after Stoke thrashed Liverpool at home. That was when the project was working and it seems like such a long time ago. - A final admittedly solipsistic yet sympathetic afterword towards Hughes predicament. A few years ago I had change to a team* happen to me. I was gutted because to most it was just one person in and out but I knew how important and potentially damaging it was. When those things are out of your control, there is nothing you can do. I walked away as soon as and went somewhere else. *non-footballing. |
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 18, 2016 18:06:10 GMT
That's a reasonable argument skip but in reality he's performing no better than mclaren did for England or Newcastle . What I meant was that the 'promotion' to England manager was McLaren's Peter Principle moment - it was beyond him. The job of Stoke manager wasn't beyond Hughes, but something has gone badly wrong. Got ya |
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Post by Widget123 on Sept 18, 2016 18:06:28 GMT
Why do the Germans have a word for absolutely fucking everything?. [Blackadder] That's because you're scared, Baldrick, and you're not the only one. I couldn't be more petrified if a wild rhinoceros had just come hom from a hard day at the swamp and found me wearing his pyjamas, smoking his cigars and in bed with his wife. I've heard what these Germans will do, sir. They'll have their wicked way with anything of woman born. Well, in that case, Baldrick, you're quite safe. However, the teutonic reputation for brutality is well-founded Their operas last three or four days, and they have no word for "fluffy".I want my mum! Yes, it'd be good to see her. I should imagine a maternally-outraged gorilla could be a useful ally when it comes to the final scrap. [/Blackadder] |
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 18, 2016 18:07:20 GMT
Why do the Germans have a word for absolutely fucking everything?. They don't have one for 'sorry' do they? Or I believe it's your sun bed |
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Post by loosestools on Sept 18, 2016 18:16:14 GMT
Yes but is that a natural end to the project or poor management of the project? Could the outcome have been different? Difficult to say. I think the long term aim remains the same but Hughes' project (read: attempt to take the project forward) hasn't simply stalled but is taking us backwards towards a position worse than the one he inherited. That's what feels like such a massive kick in the sack when I'm trying to think of positive things to take away from today. The outcome could have been different but how many factors have impacted so unfavourably on the project too; injuries to Butland most definitely, the one to Glen Johnson too, but also things within his control such as taking a more cyclical test and repeat attitude towards the starting XI. Hughes hasn't done himself any favours there at all. He has persisted or shown faith in with Pulis-era battlers to gel with the European talent, and maybe the likes of Whelan and Walters have run out of steam quicker than he thought they would. Steven Nzonzi was hell bent on leaving. What was Hughes supposed to do? Kidnap him and silence his brother? And this was literally days after Stoke thrashed Liverpool at home. That was when the project was working and it seems like such a long time ago. - A final admittedly solipsistic yet sympathetic afterword towards Hughes predicament. A few years ago I had change to a team* happen to me. I was gutted because to most it was just one person in and out but I knew how important and potentially damaging it was. When those things are out of your control, there is nothing you can do. I walked away as soon as and went somewhere else. *non-footballing. Really good thought provoking thread, ever undertaken a Monte Carlo Risk Analysis of a project? |
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Post by skip on Sept 18, 2016 18:22:38 GMT
Not personally no, LooseStools. A former housemate was an accountant/financier whose thing was risk. He explained it to me in late night conversations but it's not impacted on my work, no.
Thinking back, I did conceive of and make The Random Anarchic Triptych Generator which was designed to throw up combinations of found images to produce a theoretically infinite array of meanings in the readers/viewers, but I suspect that was more philosophical and fanciful than would be useful with Stoke's current predicament. Although one ponders as to whether Hughes has an equivalent - the Random Anarchic First Eleven Generator.
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Post by loosestools on Sept 18, 2016 18:32:58 GMT
Not personally no, LooseStools. A former housemate was an accountant/financier whose thing was risk. He explained it to me in late night conversations but it's not impacted on my work, no. Thinking back, I did conceive of and make The Random Anarchic Triptych Generator which was designed to throw up combinations of found images to produce a theoretically infinite array of meanings in the readers/viewers, but I suspect that was more philosophical and fanciful than would be useful with Stoke's current predicament. Although one ponders as to whether Hughes has an equivalent - the Random Anarchic First Eleven Generator. It is a piece of complex software where all risks are identified and scored in a matrix of impact and likelyhood and the costs of the risk are predicted with an amazing amount of accuracy. I am sure that St Peter and his gambling organisation will have run something akin to this programme to help them to decide when to pull the sacking trigger. Big money and reputation at stake! It is only partly decided over the dining table on a Sunday afternoon at a family lunch. |
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 18, 2016 18:34:14 GMT
Yes but is that a natural end to the project or poor management of the project? Could the outcome have been different? Difficult to say. I think the long term aim remains the same but Hughes' project (read: attempt to take the project forward) hasn't simply stalled but is taking us backwards towards a position worse than the one he inherited. That's what feels like such a massive kick in the sack when I'm trying to think of positive things to take away from today. The outcome could have been different but how many factors have impacted so unfavourably on the project too; injuries to Butland most definitely, the one to Glen Johnson too, but also things within his control such as taking a more cyclical test and repeat attitude towards the starting XI. Hughes hasn't done himself any favours there at all. He has persisted or shown faith in with Pulis-era battlers to gel with the European talent, and maybe the likes of Whelan and Walters have run out of steam quicker than he thought they would. Steven Nzonzi was hell bent on leaving. What was Hughes supposed to do? Kidnap him and silence his brother? And this was literally days after Stoke thrashed Liverpool at home. That was when the project was working and it seems like such a long time ago. - A final admittedly solipsistic yet sympathetic afterword towards Hughes predicament. A few years ago I had change to a team* happen to me. I was gutted because to most it was just one person in and out but I knew how important and potentially damaging it was. When those things are out of your control, there is nothing you can do. I walked away as soon as and went somewhere else. *non-footballing. Using the word stalled, whether consciously or unconsciously, is very apt. He pimped an ageing car but forgot to upgrade the engine, it looks fancy but is going nowhere fast or even slowly! The worrying thing is, whoever comes in, the engine is still fucked! |
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