Hughes has to build an effective unit from his squad

[johnnysoul60]

There was an interesting conversation on Talksport this morning between Brazil and Warnock about Ross Barkley following Koeman's decision to sub him at half time on Monday .

Warnock had managed him on loan at Leeds and said that despite his undoubted talent , finding a role for him in the team was not something he found easy . Apparently Everton were a lot better after the change .

This made me reflect on our side , lots of talented individuals but they don't look like a team .

We need to find a team structure that can win football matches , if that means that one or two talented players need to be left out then it has to be done

[pulismaskreplica]

Sept 14, 2016 9:25:55 GMT johnnysoul60 said:

There was an interesting conversation on Talksport this morning between Brazil and Warnock about Ross Barkley following Koeman's decision to sub him at half time on Monday .

Warnock had managed him on loan at Leeds and said that despite his undoubted talent , finding a role for him in the team was not something he found easy . Apparently Everton were a lot better after the change .

This made me reflect on our side , lots of talented individuals but they don't look like a team .

We need to find a team structure that can win football matches , if that means that one or two talented players need to be left out then it has to be done

Totally agree but you'd have hoped that players were being purchased to meet the obligations of the team the past few transfer windows

[mrcoke]

Sept 14, 2016 9:25:55 GMT johnnysoul60 said:

There was an interesting conversation on Talksport this morning between Brazil and Warnock about Ross Barkley following Koeman's decision to sub him at half time on Monday .

Warnock had managed him on loan at Leeds and said that despite his undoubted talent , finding a role for him in the team was not something he found easy . Apparently Everton were a lot better after the change .

This made me reflect on our side , lots of talented individuals but they don't look like a team .

We need to find a team structure that can win football matches , if that means that one or two talented players need to be left out then it has to be done

I totally endorse what you are saying. Ramsay, Clough, Ferguson were not afraid to leave out ( or in Fergy's case get rid) of players no matter how good they were if they didn't fit in the team. 

I am disappointed in the Stoke fans who are on Hughes' back though; I think people are not being fair. The club has had an horrendous run of injuries and it has been impossible for Hughes to put out anything like his best team. We have also been dealt a lousy hand with the refereeing decisions. I'm not attributing all the poor results to bad luck. There have also been some cases of lost form, lack of commitment and generally poor professionalism in the quality of play.

Since he has arrived Hughes has bought a wealth of players, particularly summer of 2015 when he brought in a dozen or so. Granted they have not been successful, but you can't argue he has not bought FBs, CBs, and strikers and generally bought a class of player higher than the club has bought before, or since the Waddington days.

We expected to progress beyond 9th last season but got blown off course by injuries and arguably the cup matches draining resources. I'm sure we can resolve the issues particularly when injured players return and the new players are bedded in. We just have to be patient. 

[skip]

Managers have such a conundrum nowadays. You used to have a first XI with subs, now its all about the squad. Presumably some players are brought in, or shipped out, as having a broad range of skills, others for one unique property. One would assume that for example, Joe Allen was brought in for specific reasons, as was Imbula, but then its the job of the manager to utilise them both as appropriate.

Im not a fan of the wages that players at the top get nowadays but I've got to say, managers who succeed - whatever those parameters are that are set at management or director level - deserve their rewards. How DO you build a squad, keep 25 millionaire footballers happy and fired up when only half of those will feature week to week. A phrase often bandied around is that having many players for a variety of positions is a luxury every manager wants. I bet its a sodding nightmare.

[johnnysoul60]

Sept 14, 2016 10:51:31 GMT mrcoke said:

Sept 14, 2016 9:25:55 GMT johnnysoul60 said:

There was an interesting conversation on Talksport this morning between Brazil and Warnock about Ross Barkley following Koeman's decision to sub him at half time on Monday .

Warnock had managed him on loan at Leeds and said that despite his undoubted talent , finding a role for him in the team was not something he found easy . Apparently Everton were a lot better after the change .

This made me reflect on our side , lots of talented individuals but they don't look like a team .

We need to find a team structure that can win football matches , if that means that one or two talented players need to be left out then it has to be done

I totally endorse what you are saying. Ramsay, Clough, Ferguson were not afraid to leave out ( or in Fergy's case get rid) of players no matter how good they were if they didn't fit in the team. 

I am disappointed in the Stoke fans who are on Hughes' back though; I think people are not being fair. The club has had an horrendous run of injuries and it has been impossible for Hughes to put out anything like his best team. We have also been dealt a lousy hand with the refereeing decisions. I'm not attributing all the poor results to bad luck. There have also been some cases of lost form, lack of commitment and generally poor professionalism in the quality of play.

Since he has arrived Hughes has bought a wealth of players, particularly summer of 2015 when he brought in a dozen or so. Granted they have not been successful, but you can't argue he has not bought FBs, CBs, and strikers and generally bought a class of player higher than the club has bought before, or since the Waddington days.

We expected to progress beyond 9th last season but got blown off course by injuries and arguably the cup matches draining resources. I'm sure we can resolve the issues particularly when injured players return and the new players are bedded in. We just have to be patient. 

I'm trying to not be on his back , but having watched Stoke for a long time , saw worrying signs towards the end of last season that have not been addressed over the summer . The goalkeeping issue is a real case in point , we should not be relying on a 41 year old as first choice replacement .

Our full backs and lack of pace throughout the side , should also have been addressed but were not.

I'm not one of those fans who thinks we have to improve each season but certainly don't think we should be where we are currently or playing like we are , despite the injuries we have enough talent if they put the work in to be getting 40 points if not 50

He now has apart from Man U a run of games where he should be able to put out a team to get results and we really need to see an improvement at Palace in the performance

If we are not comfortably mid table after the Burnley home game I think he may have run out of time , after that we have a tough run of games through to the next window

[skip]

Isn't Team Hughes one of those outfits that believes in percentage gains and incremental change? If so, I wish he would stop fannying around with his team selection and afford them, injuries permitting, a run of games to get to know one another as a team and then only buy players to suit the positions that need upgrading.

Football management at Premier League level leaves me completely bemused if I'm honest.

[dadofsam]

Let's not start feeling sorry for managers, they are very well paid to do a job that is essentially easy as long as you follow the basics. As Fergie used to say, "it's easy, just get rid of the c***s". Nowhere near the challenge of managing a hospital or even a big supermarket and you're set up for life after a a couple of years.

[johnnysoul60]

Sept 14, 2016 11:26:23 GMT skip said:

Managers have such a conundrum nowadays. You used to have a first XI with subs, now its all about the squad. Presumably some players are brought in, or shipped out, as having a broad range of skills, others for one unique property. One would assume that for example, Joe Allen was brought in for specific reasons, as was Imbula, but then its the job of the manager to utilise them both as appropriate.

Im not a fan of the wages that players at the top get nowadays but I've got to say, managers who succeed - whatever those parameters are that are set at management or director level - deserve their rewards. How DO you build a squad, keep 25 millionaire footballers happy and fired up when only half of those will feature week to week. A phrase often bandied around is that having many players for a variety of positions is a luxury every manager wants. I bet its a sodding nightmare.

I'm sure its not easy which i why i wonder about who does the work to sign a player , ability and stats are fine but character is equally important and how transfer committees work that one out I'm not so sure

[nott1]

If Everton want to give him to us I'd be up for that!

[crapslinger]

Sept 14, 2016 10:51:31 GMT mrcoke said:

Sept 14, 2016 9:25:55 GMT johnnysoul60 said:

There was an interesting conversation on Talksport this morning between Brazil and Warnock about Ross Barkley following Koeman's decision to sub him at half time on Monday .

Warnock had managed him on loan at Leeds and said that despite his undoubted talent , finding a role for him in the team was not something he found easy . Apparently Everton were a lot better after the change .

This made me reflect on our side , lots of talented individuals but they don't look like a team .

We need to find a team structure that can win football matches , if that means that one or two talented players need to be left out then it has to be done

I totally endorse what you are saying. Ramsay, Clough, Ferguson were not afraid to leave out ( or in Fergy's case get rid) of players no matter how good they were if they didn't fit in the team. 

I am disappointed in the Stoke fans who are on Hughes' back though; I think people are not being fair. The club has had an horrendous run of injuries and it has been impossible for Hughes to put out anything like his best team. We have also been dealt a lousy hand with the refereeing decisions. I'm not attributing all the poor results to bad luck. There have also been some cases of lost form, lack of commitment and generally poor professionalism in the quality of play.

Since he has arrived Hughes has bought a wealth of players, particularly summer of 2015 when he brought in a dozen or so. Granted they have not been successful, but you can't argue he has not bought FBs, CBs, and strikers and generally bought a class of player higher than the club has bought before, or since the Waddington days.

We expected to progress beyond 9th last season but got blown off course by injuries and arguably the cup matches draining resources. I'm sure we can resolve the issues particularly when injured players return and the new players are bedded in. We just have to be patient. 

I get it so he has bought loads of players in and the majority have not been successful , yep pretty much confirmed my analyses he has failed to address the problem areas in our squad time to go. 

[jezzascfc]

The best team is not always the best eleven players. Right now we need to increase our pace and athleticism, as well as some characters who will stand up and be counted, who will dig in and fight. There are some who seem to have the skill, but not the mentality required for our current fight to get our season back on track. Those players need to either respond positively to the kick up the arse I hope they are getting this week or to be benched until they "get with the programme".

That Bowen says today that we have been working on our defensive shape these past few days seems to suggest the penny has dropped (finally!) with Hughes and the management team - let's hope it has with the players. A few shut outs required over the next few weeks - I'd take a couple of ugly 1-0 wins.

[skip]

I'd take a run of 1-0 wins until Boxing Day to be perfectly honest!

(hashtag don't want Pulis back thanks)

[GreaterGlasgowstokie]

We need to keep the full backs in our own half, play Cameron and allen as holding midfielders. Tighten it all up and just think about clean sheets now. Give imbula a free role and take him off after half hour if he's not doing it, replace him with bojan. Put arnie and sobhi on the wings.

Keeper position is a real problem

[CalgaryPotter]

In the NHL, players only get paid when they are in the first team or on the injured list.

If they are made a 'healthy scratch' i.e. are healthy but not picked by management then their wages are not paid.

Obviously this would be an issue for a Premier League team given the size of the squad but it wouldn't half give the manager the motivation tool they need with some of these players. From a players perspective,not only does it hurt their pocket but its also a humiliating experience for them.

[wuzza]

Sept 14, 2016 16:32:02 GMT skip said:

I'd take a run of 1-0 wins until Boxing Day to be perfectly honest!

(hashtag don't want Pulis back thanks)

Hashtag but you can understand why he did what he did!

[TexasPotter]

I would drop a lot of starters currently for a better team effort. Pieters, Walters, Whelan etc. Bojan being dropped is evidence Hughes can do it to anyone on the pitch and some seniors in the midfield need dropping quite honestly for a new look and increased competition. I'd personally have Allen and Cameron like Glasgowstokie suggests, or even Adam and Allen as Indi solidifies the back. I wouldn't start Walters at RW either as we need a threat there. Either shaq or sobhi for me. Question is, can Bardsley and Johnson stay fit so he can shuffle people around?

[jeycov]

Sept 14, 2016 16:54:30 GMT CalgaryPotter said:

In the NHL, players only get paid when they are in the first team or on the injured list.

If they are made a 'healthy scratch' i.e. are healthy but not picked by management then their wages are not paid.

Obviously this would be an issue for a Premier League team given the size of the squad but it wouldn't half give the manager the motivation tool they need with some of these players. From a players perspective,not only does it hurt their pocket but its also a humiliating experience for them.

Or an incentive to be injured?
We already have a costly wage bill for those who are injured?

[CalgaryPotter]

Sept 14, 2016 17:13:44 GMT jeycov said:

Sept 14, 2016 16:54:30 GMT CalgaryPotter said:

In the NHL, players only get paid when they are in the first team or on the injured list.

If they are made a 'healthy scratch' i.e. are healthy but not picked by management then their wages are not paid.

Obviously this would be an issue for a Premier League team given the size of the squad but it wouldn't half give the manager the motivation tool they need with some of these players. From a players perspective,not only does it hurt their pocket but its also a humiliating experience for them.

Or an incentive to be injured?
We already have a costly wage bill for those who are injured?

Good point but the pay when injured is covered by insurance and i imagine they would require their own doctors checking them?

[slother]

OP is absolutely right that poor players in a good system is infinitely superior to good players in a poor system. Look at who the Champions are. As fans we need to consider transfers in this vein. To pick an example at random, Charlie Daniels at Bournemouth might be a limited player but at least he is a full back willing to drive into the final third and for that reason might be more of a success here than a player like Erik Pieters.

[llyodc]

pulis had a safe sytsem. help us stay up. good run in the cup.

hughes chases the carrot in the short term. now its catching up to us now. the big signings covered up that he cant manage a team. we neeb someone to put a system together. throwing money at the problem wont help us

[generationex]

Hughes biggest problem is leaving out players he has bought at great expense.

If he does it will be a stick to beat him with. Worse still the legacy he was left with is ageing and he has failed to replace them either.

[hchpotter]

Sept 14, 2016 23:06:58 GMT generationex said:

Hughes biggest problem is leaving out players he has bought at great expense.

If he does it will be a stick to beat him with. Worse still the legacy he was left with is ageing and he has failed to replace them either.

Given the money he has available to him his recruitment has been dreadful. How many of his purchases have consistently looked good value? Joe Allen has had three good games. Arnie looked the real deal last season.

Given is past it. Haugaard is clearly not good enough. Grant was not good enough for Derby. Bego and Tommy superior to all three.

Pieters, Johnson, Bardsley, Wollscheid, Muniesa have all had good games in defence but have had too many ordinary games and / or lengthy lay offs. Tex clearly not good enough. Martins Indi looks promising. Huth superior to all of those named above.

Bojan, Shaqiri, Imbula have shown flashes of brilliance but have largely disappointed. Ireland is clearly not trusted even when fully fit. Loanee wingers have dazzled briefly and then disappeared. Fingers crossed for Ramadan. Let's hope he doesn't go the same way as Moha. N'Zonzi never adequately replaced.

Diouf and Joselu never seemed to have the confidence of the man who brought them to the club.

[milky]

Sept 14, 2016 22:34:53 GMT llyodc said:

pulis had a safe sytsem. help us stay up. good run in the cup.

hughes chases the carrot in the short term. now its catching up to us now. the big signings covered up that he cant manage a team. we neeb someone to put a system together. throwing money at the problem wont help us

He isn't coming back.

I'd try and get over it.

[llyodc]

Sept 15, 2016 5:44:35 GMT milky said:

Sept 14, 2016 22:34:53 GMT llyodc said:

pulis had a safe sytsem. help us stay up. good run in the cup.

hughes chases the carrot in the short term. now its catching up to us now. the big signings covered up that he cant manage a team. we neeb someone to put a system together. throwing money at the problem wont help us

He isn't coming back.

I'd try and get over it.

just wish theyd move on from him. cameron is still on the team and hughes dont no how to use him. theres no team with hughes. its just big name signings and loans. we were bound to get caught out in the end.

im a stoke fan 4 life. but i cant be arsed going back to the championshp

[MilanStokie]

Sept 15, 2016 6:35:05 GMT llyodc said:

Sept 15, 2016 5:44:35 GMT milky said:

He isn't coming back.

I'd try and get over it.

just wish theyd move on from him. cameron is still on the team and hughes dont no how to use him. theres no team with hughes. its just big name signings and loans. we were bound to get caught out in the end.

im a stoke fan 4 life. but i cant be arsed going back to the championshp

lol like a broken record!

hughes knows what he is doing with cameron. he is a "utility" player filling in for injuries in 1 of his 3 positions...

are you sat there thinking jeez cameron keeps playing different spots every match, hughes hasn't got a clue ?

[BraveSirRobin]

Sept 15, 2016 6:35:05 GMT llyodc said:

Sept 15, 2016 5:44:35 GMT milky said:

He isn't coming back.

I'd try and get over it.

just wish theyd move on from him. cameron is still on the team and hughes dont no how to use him. theres no team with hughes. its just big name signings and loans. we were bound to get caught out in the end.

im a stoke fan 4 life. but i cant be arsed going back to the championshp

So therefore you're a Stoke fan 4 the premier league then?

[BraveSirRobin]

Sept 15, 2016 5:39:57 GMT hchpotter said:

Sept 14, 2016 23:06:58 GMT generationex said:

Hughes biggest problem is leaving out players he has bought at great expense.

If he does it will be a stick to beat him with. Worse still the legacy he was left with is ageing and he has failed to replace them either.

Given the money he has available to him his recruitment has been dreadful. How many of his purchases have consistently looked good value? Joe Allen has had three good games. Arnie looked the real deal last season.

Given is past it. Haugaard is clearly not good enough. Grant was not good enough for Derby. Bego and Tommy superior to all three.

Pieters, Johnson, Bardsley, Wollscheid, Muniesa have all had good games in defence but have had too many ordinary games and / or lengthy lay offs. Tex clearly not good enough. Martins Indi looks promising. Huth superior to all of those named above.

Bojan, Shaqiri, Imbula have shown flashes of brilliance but have largely disappointed. Ireland is clearly not trusted even when fully fit. Loanee wingers have dazzled briefly and then disappeared. Fingers crossed for Ramadan. Let's hope he doesn't go the same way as Moha. N'Zonzi never adequately replaced.

Diouf and Joselu never seemed to have the confidence of the man who brought them to the club.

So you're comparing Pulis' best signings to Hughes' ones that haven't come to fruition? If it suits your argument, crack on.

[llyodc]

Sept 15, 2016 7:01:30 GMT BraveSirRobin said:

Sept 15, 2016 6:35:05 GMT llyodc said:

just wish theyd move on from him. cameron is still on the team and hughes dont no how to use him. theres no team with hughes. its just big name signings and loans. we were bound to get caught out in the end.

im a stoke fan 4 life. but i cant be arsed going back to the championshp

So therefore you're a Stoke fan 4 the premier league then?

stoke fan 4 life.

just got used to us being a premer league club. and it feels like thats coming to a end. 

[miltonstokienew]

Sept 15, 2016 7:19:47 GMT llyodc said:

Sept 15, 2016 7:01:30 GMT BraveSirRobin said:

So therefore you're a Stoke fan 4 the premier league then?

stoke fan 4 life.

just got used to us being a premer league club. and it feels like thats coming to a end. 

How old r u ?

[BraveSirRobin]

Sept 15, 2016 7:19:47 GMT llyodc said:

Sept 15, 2016 7:01:30 GMT BraveSirRobin said:

So therefore you're a Stoke fan 4 the premier league then?

stoke fan 4 life.

just got used to us being a premer league club. and it feels like thats coming to a end. 

You need to get a grip.4 fucking games in.