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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 12, 2016 21:30:25 GMT
I seem to remember us getting overrun in midfield way before Imbula was signed, so let's not pretend he is the sole problem in midfield. He might not even be the biggest one. Is this the midfield that beat Man Utd/Man city and Chelsea Yes, and it's the one that Butland bailed out against Norwich. He was man of the match quite a few times early last season.
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Post by no1972 on Sept 12, 2016 21:39:06 GMT
Is this the midfield that beat Man Utd/Man city and Chelsea Yes, and it's the one that Butland bailed out against Norwich. He was man of the match quite a few times early last season. You are right and we can all pick out stats to suit our point.But he was our 18million pound player to push us on,we have gone backwards since his arrival,the lad was not even getting a start for Porto.We signed him because he played well against us in Colonge well everybody played well against us that weekend.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 12, 2016 21:39:52 GMT
I said at the end of last season I would judge him after a pre season with the squad,he as been hear 9 months so he's had plenty of time so yes I have wrote him off.And listening to most around on Saturday not on my own,he got a loud applause when subbed Saturday ,no he didn't and he sloped off like someone who didn't give a fuck. Or did he go off disappointed at the scoreline? Glad you can read his mind. Like I've said, they've described pogba on mnf as a midfielder that played in a 3 for juventus and that his role was not as a defensive midfielder. One that his game wasn't about tracking back and defending. Basically describing imbula. Now they can try get that into his game a bit more, but if he's playing in a three, with whelan and Allen, then those two should be plenty to do that role, leaving imbula free to roam and drive forward, like pogba.
Where does Bojan fit into that?
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Post by no1972 on Sept 12, 2016 21:44:38 GMT
Or did he go off disappointed at the scoreline? Glad you can read his mind. Like I've said, they've described pogba on mnf as a midfielder that played in a 3 for juventus and that his role was not as a defensive midfielder. One that his game wasn't about tracking back and defending. Basically describing imbula. Now they can try get that into his game a bit more, but if he's playing in a three, with whelan and Allen, then those two should be plenty to do that role, leaving imbula free to roam and drive forward, like pogba.
Where does Bojan fit into that?
Well the manager as made that decision,by not playing him.
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Post by luke45 on Sept 12, 2016 21:58:13 GMT
Gueye and Barry were absolutely outstanding for Everton tonight, that's the sort of protection our back four needs.
Whelan is struggling for form at the moment but Hughes clearly doesn't trust Imbula's defensive awareness enough to play him in a two with Allen so instead he's fielding all three centre midfielders at the expense of one of our more creative players, which at Everton and on Saturday was Bojan. For me Bojan has looked our sharpest and most creative player so far this season so I'm baffled why he's only played a total of 35 minutes football in our last two games.
Go back to 4-2-3-1, have two proper designated holding midfielders and have Shaqiri, Bojan and Arnie playing behind Bony. I'd even be tempted to play Geoff Cameron in the two with Allen to be honest with Whelan out of form and Imbula lacking the defensive awareness required to play in a two.
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Post by lostinafrenchbar on Sept 12, 2016 22:01:19 GMT
He got given a permanent role too early. He could do with a spell as a sub.
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Post by thehoof on Sept 12, 2016 22:04:34 GMT
Gueye and Barry were absolutely outstanding for Everton tonight, that's the sort of protection our back four needs. Whelan is struggling for form at the moment but Hughes clearly doesn't trust Imbula's defensive awareness enough to play him in a two with Allen so instead he's fielding all three centre midfielders at the expense of one of our more creative players, which at Everton and on Saturday was Bojan. For me Bojan has looked our sharpest and most creative player so far this season so I'm baffled why he's only played a total of 35 minutes football in our last two games. Go back to 4-2-3-1, have two proper designated holding midfielders and have Shaqiri, Bojan and Arnie playing behind Bony. I'd even be tempted to play Geoff Cameron in the two with Allen to be honest with Whelan out of form and Imbula lacking the defensive awareness required to play in a two. A lot of sense in that so long as Glen is not one of the two holding players.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 12, 2016 22:08:29 GMT
Where does Bojan fit into that?
Well the manager as made that decision,by not playing him.
So you're saying that Imbula and Bojan can't start in the same XI then?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 12, 2016 22:45:46 GMT
Yes, and it's the one that Butland bailed out against Norwich. He was man of the match quite a few times early last season. You are right and we can all pick out stats to suit our point.But he was our 18million pound player to push us on,we have gone backwards since his arrival,the lad was not even getting a start for Porto.We signed him because he played well against us in Colonge well everybody played well against us that weekend. I don't dispute that he hasn't set the world alight, or that people(myself included)got a bit carried away with him early on in claiming he would be better than N'Zonzi. I just think there is much more to our slump(too high a defensive line, lack of discipline, Whelan deteriorating, slowness of build up etc)than Imbula joining us. A lot of players are suddenly looking crap; maybe the problem lies off the pitch?
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Post by heworksardtho on Sept 13, 2016 4:53:26 GMT
Imbulas strength is driving forward and a license to roam in a midfield three he won't work in a two , that's up to Allen and glen to protect the back four
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Sept 13, 2016 5:35:06 GMT
39 goals conceded in his 18 games for us suggests he is. He's blatantly not doing the job/can't do the job he's supposed to be doing for us. He needs dropping and forgetting about as he's the main reason we're so exposed defensively. Did no other player appear in those 18 games? You could just as easily say 39 goals conceded in Shawcross' last 18 games or Whelans last 18 games- aren't those two supposed to be defensive players? Radio Stoke obviously have an agenda against Imbula, I listened to the commentary of the Everton match, and Blakeman and Conroy spent the whole afternoon criticising him. I watched the live stream at the same time and Blakeman simply ignored the good work he did and only mentioned when he made a mistake! Then on Saturday Sandoz came up with the above non-fact, which sounds damning, if you don't think it through. It may be that Imbula needs some time out of the team, but let's not believe the bullshit being spoken about him or make him a scapegoat. Support your team! The current slump we're on coincides with when Imbula was brought into midfield (although I use that term loosely). We went on a brilliant run before Xmas when Shawcross came back and Whelan was ever present. It certainly doesn't point to them.
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Post by nott1 on Sept 13, 2016 5:42:45 GMT
Watch him on the 4th goal if you think the 1st is bad! When the new manager arrives in a couple of weeks, Imbula will be first to be told he has no future at the club. Awful signing. I think you are talking complete bollocks!
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Post by nott1 on Sept 13, 2016 5:45:02 GMT
Charlie Adam is totally unprofessional. Look at the state of him when he came on today. He was blowing out of his arse after 5 minutes against a team 4-0 up and not really trying. I've been a massive Charlie Adam fan since he came to Stoke but I lost my patience with him today. On social media and his radio/TV appearances, he comes across as a real pro who understands the game but on the evidence of his cameo today it's pretty clear that he has little idea of how to keep himself in the kind of shape it takes to make an impact at this this level. Really disappointing. He gets very little game time, is that down to match fitness?
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Post by roylandstoke on Sept 13, 2016 9:07:36 GMT
Clearly has potential but needs alot of work. I would swap him for Zonz in an instant. Wonder if they would go for that deal, we get a £7 million player they get an £18 million player sounds like a no brainer to me. They may see it as, they get an £18M player and we get a player the Premier League Champions offered £25M for.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Sept 13, 2016 9:19:47 GMT
I've been a massive Charlie Adam fan since he came to Stoke but I lost my patience with him today. On social media and his radio/TV appearances, he comes across as a real pro who understands the game but on the evidence of his cameo today it's pretty clear that he has little idea of how to keep himself in the kind of shape it takes to make an impact at this this level. Really disappointing. He gets very little game time, is that down to match fitness? He's just never been a fit player really and isn't mobile enough to get by in the Premiership.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Sept 13, 2016 9:28:39 GMT
Gueye and Barry were absolutely outstanding for Everton tonight, that's the sort of protection our back four needs. They picked Gueye up from Villa he seems a real grafter not as good but in the same mould as Kante . We certainly need two holding players away from home and at home against better teams , for the first part of last season we did it well v Chelsea Citeh and Man U , ok they were not at their best but still had decent sides out but it feels as though a lot has fallen apart since the Spring. Imbula can drive forward well but is not the type of player you want as a N0 10 ( we really need Bojan or Shaq or Arnie to build a good link with Bony for that ) and we cant leave Bony isolated like we did on Sat so Im not sure what formation he will fit into well until he is prepared to put the defensive work in , no doubt he can do it if he wants to its all a question of attitude and application .
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2016 9:33:55 GMT
The pass to Arnie in the first half was absolutely out of this world. Not many players can do that. It shows he has a fantastic talent. However talent is not enough. I've been hammered on here for it but my opinion is we have chucked 18 million down the drain. He has absolutely no idea what is going on around him and he lets midfield players run off him. His work rate is no where near. The manager trying to shoe horn him into the midfield alongside Allen is costing us. I honestly don't know where we go from here but we're missing Butland and Johnson big time. Our transfer business is costing us. Hughes is culpable too by picking him when he point-blank refuses to, or is incapable of, fulfilling his duties. Must be a tough call to drop your record signing, even when he's only contributing 50% if what you require of him.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Sept 13, 2016 9:51:12 GMT
As a team we're lacking, not just Imbula. I'm sure Hughes will sort it out.
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Post by liamo on Sept 13, 2016 10:10:33 GMT
I like Imbula, he's talented but he has no idea how to fill the role he's been given, he doesn't know when to stay or run and is often caught out too far up the pitch, very talented but needs to learn the role before he can start imo and changing the formation to 4-3-3 to fit him in and push Bojan out is completely and utterly ridiculous
I hate to beat a dead donkey but Zonz got this role down to a tee, he put tackles in, broke up play and motored forward with the ball, Imbula needs to learn and he's still young enough to do it
For me we need to stick to the 4-2-3-1 with Allen and Whelan as the 2 and Bojan behind Bony and get back to basics, basics like stringing 2 or 3 passes together without some clumsy bugger losing the ball in our own half, basics like dropping in and filling gaps so the opposition midfield can't just fucking stroll up to our back 4 and open us up like a tin of salmon, keep the ball, use it well and get some fucking discipline in to the side
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Post by hooftastic on Sept 13, 2016 10:12:18 GMT
Wolly's gone now so everyone needs a new scapegoat. He wears gloves, can we now make him have a more feminine run so we can question his sexuality too?
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Post by Scrotnig on Sept 13, 2016 10:16:54 GMT
Imbula has mostly been an expensive flop so far. That's difficult to deny.
To blame him for our current slump though is rather silly. The entire team is shite as things stand.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Sept 13, 2016 10:28:24 GMT
Imbulas strength is driving forward and a license to roam in a midfield three he won't work in a two , that's up to Allen and glen to protect the back four So he's an £18M limited footballer then!!! And if his only strength is driving forward and he ends up losing possession half the time, then he's not worth £18M either!!!
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Sept 13, 2016 10:32:59 GMT
Wolly's gone now so everyone needs a new scapegoat. He wears gloves, can we now make him have a more feminine run so we can question his sexuality too? There shouldn't be a scapegoat, the team are playing badly as a whole.... But in most decent teams, a good midfield is the backbone of the team, it protects the defence and helps the forwards, ours at the moment aren't doing either!!!
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Post by pez75 on Sept 13, 2016 10:35:50 GMT
Wolly's gone now so everyone needs a new scapegoat. He wears gloves, can we now make him have a more feminine run so we can question his sexuality too? There shouldn't be a scapegoat, the team are playing badly as a whole.... But in most decent teams, a good midfield is the backbone of the team, it protects the defence and helps the forwards, ours at the moment aren't doing either!!! I thought this was the sole reason for the existance of Glenn Whelan?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 13, 2016 21:01:59 GMT
I like Imbula, he's talented but he has no idea how to fill the role he's been given, he doesn't know when to stay or run and is often caught out too far up the pitch, very talented but needs to learn the role before he can start imo and changing the formation to 4-3-3 to fit him in and push Bojan out is completely and utterly ridiculous I hate to beat a dead donkey but Zonz got this role down to a tee, he put tackles in, broke up play and motored forward with the ball, Imbula needs to learn and he's still young enough to do it For me we need to stick to the 4-2-3-1 with Allen and Whelan as the 2 and Bojan behind Bony and get back to basics, basics like stringing 2 or 3 passes together without some clumsy bugger losing the ball in our own half, basics like dropping in and filling gaps so the opposition midfield can't just fucking stroll up to our back 4 and open us up like a tin of salmon, keep the ball, use it well and get some fucking discipline in to the side
In a nutshell.
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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 13, 2016 21:25:59 GMT
I think Saturday was a microcosm of Imbula's career so far.
He was fantastic in the opening exchanges. He was strong on the ball, charged forward with impunity and was unfortunate that his defence splitting pass for Arnie found the latter offside. How different the game might have been if that goal had been allowed. He seemed to have a renewed determination. Ultimately, though, through either laziness or misunderstanding, we conceded a goal far too easily when Spurs swamped our penalty area and Imbula failed to track his man. It was poor. More importantly, his presence in the side seems to damage the balance of the midfield. Whelan is looking poor at the moment because he's often finding himself completely abandoned when it's time to defend. The midfield simply isn't gelling in a way that can functionally provide a shield for the defence, or offer anything in attack. They're just there, and as a unit are entirely passive.
It reminds me a lot of the van Ginkel and Affelay situation last season. Two neat and tidy players without a creative or combative bone in their body. Our midfield didn't look the part until we stopped playing them together and moved to a system with more balance. Ultimately, we know that Hughes won't drop Allen, because he's in form and is our second most expensive signing of all time, and won't drop Imbula because he cost £18,000,000. It's the Pulis/Crouch situation all over again. If I had to pick a midfield from our current set of players, I'd go totally back to basics. Whelan as the defensive shield, Allen as the dynamo and Bojan as the creator. With Arnie and Sobhi on the flanks, and Bony spearheading the attack, there's a possibility that we could get more shots on target against Palace than we have done all season.
Still, I have an interesting hypothetical question: what would Mark Hughes do if Whelan broke his ankle in training? Who would play then?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 13, 2016 21:30:30 GMT
I think Saturday was a microcosm of Imbula's career so far. He was fantastic in the opening exchanges. He was strong on the ball, charged forward with impunity and was unfortunate that his defence splitting pass for Arnie found the latter offside. How different the game might have been if that goal had been allowed. He seemed to have a renewed determination. Ultimately, though, through either laziness or misunderstanding, we conceded a goal far too easily when Spurs swamped our penalty area and Imbula failed to track his man. It was poor. More importantly, his presence in the side seems to damage the balance of the midfield. Whelan is looking poor at the moment because he's often finding himself completely abandoned when it's time to defend. The midfield simply isn't gelling in a way that can functionally provide a shield for the defence, or offer anything in attack. They're just there, and as a unit are entirely passive. It reminds me a lot of the van Ginkel and Affelay situation last season. Two neat and tidy players without a creative or combative bone in their body. Our midfield didn't look the part until we stopped playing them together and moved to a system with more balance. Ultimately, we know that Hughes won't drop Allen, because he's in form and is our second most expensive signing of all time, and won't drop Imbula because he cost £18,000,000. It's the Pulis/Crouch situation all over again. If I had to pick a midfield from our current set of players, I'd go totally back to basics. Whelan as the defensive shield, Allen as the dynamo and Bojan as the creator. With Arnie and Sobhi on the flanks, and Bony spearheading the attack, there's a possibility that we could get more shots on target against Palace than we have done all season. Still, I have an interesting hypothetical question: what would Mark Hughes do if Whelan broke his ankle in training? Who would play then?
He'd probably play Cameron there you'd think.
But to flip the question round ... what would Hughes have done if Imbula hadn't been available on Saturday?
I'd bet my mortgage that he would have played 4-2-3-1 with Bojan in the hole, absolutely guaranteed.
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Post by jezzascfc on Sept 13, 2016 21:33:16 GMT
Of the middle three right now, only Allen is worth his place. I'd give Geoff a go instead of Whelan to add some pace, strength and athleticism in there, and Bojan simply has to come in to play the number 10 role to link up with the isolated Bony. Walters must be ditched for Ramadan whilst Shaq remains out - he has enormous potential, so give him a chance.
It is unfair to highlight Imbula, but his shortcomings are the most frustrating as he is so talented, and has all the skills to be a dynamic midfielder, but seemingly can't grasp what is required of him. I'd lock him in a room for a weekend with a tape of every game of SNZ's last season with us and demand he watch him again and again to see what is expected.
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Post by Jimmyg on Sept 13, 2016 21:40:59 GMT
He's no nzonzi at the moment but still probably the most talented player we have at the club.needs to be given free role in center mid,as we've seen he's not one for tracking back but his energy going forward is the reason he's in the team
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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 13, 2016 21:44:36 GMT
I think Saturday was a microcosm of Imbula's career so far. He was fantastic in the opening exchanges. He was strong on the ball, charged forward with impunity and was unfortunate that his defence splitting pass for Arnie found the latter offside. How different the game might have been if that goal had been allowed. He seemed to have a renewed determination. Ultimately, though, through either laziness or misunderstanding, we conceded a goal far too easily when Spurs swamped our penalty area and Imbula failed to track his man. It was poor. More importantly, his presence in the side seems to damage the balance of the midfield. Whelan is looking poor at the moment because he's often finding himself completely abandoned when it's time to defend. The midfield simply isn't gelling in a way that can functionally provide a shield for the defence, or offer anything in attack. They're just there, and as a unit are entirely passive. It reminds me a lot of the van Ginkel and Affelay situation last season. Two neat and tidy players without a creative or combative bone in their body. Our midfield didn't look the part until we stopped playing them together and moved to a system with more balance. Ultimately, we know that Hughes won't drop Allen, because he's in form and is our second most expensive signing of all time, and won't drop Imbula because he cost £18,000,000. It's the Pulis/Crouch situation all over again. If I had to pick a midfield from our current set of players, I'd go totally back to basics. Whelan as the defensive shield, Allen as the dynamo and Bojan as the creator. With Arnie and Sobhi on the flanks, and Bony spearheading the attack, there's a possibility that we could get more shots on target against Palace than we have done all season. Still, I have an interesting hypothetical question: what would Mark Hughes do if Whelan broke his ankle in training? Who would play then?
He'd probably play Cameron there you'd think.
But to flip the question round ... what would Hughes have done if Imbula hadn't been available on Saturday?
I'd bet my mortgage that he would have played 4-2-3-1 with Bojan in the hole, absolutely guaranteed.
Do you not think that he might be tempted, rightly or wrongly, to play Allen a bit deeper and try something different with the other two midfield spots? I agree, he definitely would have played 4-2-3-1, and I think we'd have been better for it.
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