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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Sept 4, 2016 22:14:12 GMT
Very worrying that we currently only have 6 English players (that are good enough ) in the premier league that are eligible to play for England. Hoddle made some frightening comments, regarding Championship players possibly being called up. We're way behind on other countries.
Well done though Big Sam😊
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Post by mattythestokie on Sept 4, 2016 22:23:46 GMT
Hardly something new is it?
We've been shit for some time. Only now, we're shit with shit players as opposed to being shit with 'good' players.
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Post by Gods on Sept 4, 2016 22:29:28 GMT
The Premier League has the big brands (the top clubs) and the customers (the fans) and quite some intellectual property in terms of how to run a (financially) successful league but like in so many walks of life we have largely outsourced the dirty business of actually playing the game to people from overseas because they do it better and more cheaply, as a result the national team suffers. Think of it like going in to Pret a Manger of Costa Coffee where you get served by a bright young thing from Portugal or Poland or Latvia or wherever it might be rather than some simpleton they have just dragged kicking and screaming from the job centre  |
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Post by Royal Donut on Sept 4, 2016 22:32:35 GMT
And guess what there are 180 other teams players at least in the world that couldn't play in the premier league.
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Post by rawli on Sept 4, 2016 22:59:43 GMT
The Premier league is really a world league that just happens to be based in England. It's mainly foreign owners, players and managers have as much interest in England doing well as I have in yak herding.
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Post by Silkystoke on Sept 4, 2016 23:08:11 GMT
Blame tv/ sky ....!!!! That's why the English football team is shite...!!! Too much money in the game, foreign fuckin players, not pushing on the English youngsters
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 5, 2016 0:09:21 GMT
The Premier league is really a world league that just happens to be based in England. It's mainly foreign owners, players and managers have as much interest in England doing well as I have in yak herding. You should give yak herding a try, rawli. I did and have never regretted It! |
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Post by mattador78 on Sept 5, 2016 3:10:27 GMT
The Premier league is really a world league that just happens to be based in England. It's mainly foreign owners, players and managers have as much interest in England doing well as I have in yak herding. You should give yak herding a try, rawli. I did and have never regretted It! Agreed and the cheese is something else however if on pisses on you the stench is appalling |
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 5, 2016 3:36:43 GMT
In the last decade we have gone from quarter final team to a point where quarter final would be considered a success. A lot of things have come home to roost. And few people have the inclination to change things. I include supporters in that too in some ways.
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Post by polofrance on Sept 5, 2016 4:31:36 GMT
Watched the England and could not believe how static we were again in front of goal, no one making the runs or trying to create. Harry Kane totally lacking in confidence had chances to shoot but chose to pass. (guaranteed to score on Saturday now)and was totally isolated until the sending off.
I watched the Germans afterwards playing Norway and the movement of the ball was so much quicker and sharper around the box and even when the youngsters came on later in the game they knew exactly what role they should be playing,
England remind me now of the Italy side a few years ago when everyone wanted to play in Seria A for the big bucks. Too many mercenaries taking the places of the young home grown talent which now never gets a chance to shine.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Sept 5, 2016 6:27:41 GMT
The Premier League has the big brands (the top clubs) and the customers (the fans) and quite some intellectual property in terms of how to run a (financially) successful league but like in so many walks of life we have largely outsourced the dirty business of actually playing the game to people from overseas because they do it better and more cheaply, as a result the national team suffers. Think of it like going in to Pret a Manger of Costa Coffee where you get served by a bright young thing from Portugal or Poland or Latvia or wherever it might be rather than some simpleton they have just dragged kicking and screaming from the job centre But I thought this is the whole idea for Brexit?  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 8:27:16 GMT
There are aspects why Englands mens football team are effectively dead to me
For Instance, the hypocrisy at the top level and, the inability to rationalise whats really needed to make a successful national mens football team versus,the money grabbing is so obvious - so overt - so cynical
- its embarrassing
hence that attitude I have, Im so heartily criticized for
and nothing will change
examples:-
1) No winter break
2) Too many fixtures
3) Pure Corporate greed and 'direction' by the TV money
4) Bigger clubs now hoovering up all the overseas talent and filling our acadamies / reserves with them or when theyve got too many (Cheslea) simply, farming them out on loan
5) Too many money grabbing agents and overseas players (in truth)
6) Players literally run into the ground on lengthy money grabbing pre season tours, then expected to run around like spring lambs cum competition time
7) The money side of the game and 'the suits' continually fiddling with fixtures - timing - frequency etc
the end is listless
so it is down to this -
'Do you want a supposedly 'world leading' premier leagues as it is right now (combined with a European super league)' ? (which is what we have right now too)
and all our legnthy cup competitions ?
and a 'must win everything' mentality ?
or
Do you want a Successful national football team ?
it is plain now - you cant have all of these
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Sept 5, 2016 8:42:49 GMT
Does anyone actually care about the English national team? Personally I couldn't give a flying fart. Gouranga.  |
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Post by kerouac on Sept 5, 2016 8:42:51 GMT
The Premier League has the big brands (the top clubs) and the customers (the fans) and quite some intellectual property in terms of how to run a (financially) successful league but like in so many walks of life we have largely outsourced the dirty business of actually playing the game to people from overseas because they do it better and more cheaply, as a result the national team suffers. Think of it like going in to Pret a Manger of Costa Coffee where you get served by a bright young thing from Portugal or Poland or Latvia or wherever it might be rather than some simpleton they have just dragged kicking and screaming from the job centre What a great analogy. |
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Post by Royal Donut on Sept 5, 2016 8:48:28 GMT
Have we ever done well on the International stage?? .Even in 66 we werent favourites, we never have been, we have never in our history done that well, but in recent years we seen to think we can win everything. Why do we think we have the right to get to the final. Is it because our players get paid more(because getting plaid more doesn't make you a better player unfortunately)
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Sept 5, 2016 9:40:18 GMT
Have we ever done well on the International stage?? .Even in 66 we werent favourites, we never have been, we have never in our history done that well, but in recent years we seen to think we can win everything. Why do we think we have the right to get to the final. Is it because our players get paid more(because getting plaid more doesn't make you a better player unfortunately) I believe we were actually heavily favoured to go to the 1970 Finals and win that, we were much more fancied to win in 70 than we were in 66 when we actually did win. But many many things conspired to fuck us in that world cup... |
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Sept 5, 2016 9:42:23 GMT
Very worrying that we currently only have 6 English players (that are good enough ) in the premier league that are eligible to play for England. Hoddle made some frightening comments, regarding Championship players possibly being called up. We're way behind on other countries. Well done though Big Sam😊 Glen Hoddle can shove it, he knows the square root of nothing about football and is consistently coming up with excuses for bad players, missing the most obvious of incidents and all round not knowing what day of the week it is. I would rather listen to Michael Owen commentate on England games than listen to Hoddle, he makes the most simple mistakes and half the time doesn't even know which player is which. |
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Post by rawli on Sept 5, 2016 10:32:36 GMT
The Premier league is really a world league that just happens to be based in England. It's mainly foreign owners, players and managers have as much interest in England doing well as I have in yak herding. You should give yak herding a try, rawli. I did and have never regretted It! Sadly, I Googled it and there is a herd in Cheshire so may give it a go. |
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Post by Onneravineet on Sept 5, 2016 11:01:18 GMT
I understand the sentiment but if Big Sam chooses to play those players that aren't playing at their clubs then he is part of the problem.
There is a solution to all of this. It doesn't start with the Premier League stipulating what are discriminatory laws that will never work and will never gain support from the teams.
First of all, in my opinion, players should make the England Squad on form and form alone.
If a player is not playing then this cannot be judged, sufficient reason to not make the selection for the England team.
When this happens players, at said clubs, will not gain England Caps.
They will lose some of their lucrative endorsements and the adulation of kids nationwide.
Maybe then Theo, the Ox et al will move on to clubs where they can play week in week out. I hate Wiltshit but hats off he has gained some brownie points from me.
The irony is that Leicester proved last year that names mean nothing. It's teams that win. They had a selection of very good and good players that came together to win over the course of a whole season! Not just a cup run with a surprise victory in a blood and guts final. Instead Sam starts a team without Drinkwater in the starting line-up!?
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Sept 5, 2016 11:18:54 GMT
Very worrying that we currently only have 6 English players (that are good enough ) in the premier league that are eligible to play for England. Hoddle made some frightening comments, regarding Championship players possibly being called up. We're way behind on other countries. Well done though Big Sam😊 Glen Hoddle can shove it, he knows the square root of nothing about football and is consistently coming up with excuses for bad players, missing the most obvious of incidents and all round not knowing what day of the week it is. I would rather listen to Michael Owen commentate on England games than listen to Hoddle, he makes the most simple mistakes and half the time doesn't even know which player is which. Glen Hoddle would have been the best man for the England job in my opinion. He's been the best manager that we've had in years. Unfortunately his ridiculous comments about the disabled etc...landed him in hot water. Certainly knows how to get the best out of players and is tactically very good. |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 5, 2016 11:23:35 GMT
Glen Hoddle can shove it, he knows the square root of nothing about football and is consistently coming up with excuses for bad players, missing the most obvious of incidents and all round not knowing what day of the week it is. I would rather listen to Michael Owen commentate on England games than listen to Hoddle, he makes the most simple mistakes and half the time doesn't even know which player is which. Glen Hoddle would have been the best man for the England job in my opinion. He's been the best manager that we've had in years. Unfortunately his ridiculous comments about the disabled etc...landed him in hot water. Certainly knows how to get the best out of players and is tactically very good. I don't get where the 'he gets the best out of players' stuff comes from when man management was famously his biggest flaw. His reputation mystifies me. What is it based on? |
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Post by ryan4england on Sept 5, 2016 11:44:53 GMT
We've been shit for 20 years have they only just noticed
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Post by Robo10 on Sept 5, 2016 12:03:21 GMT
I think Hoddle is a twat. Always have done
His comments on 'splitting the Championship into 2 divisions of 16 so that youth players can get experience and less games' yesterday summed it up - the Championship (and League One, Two and below) are full of traditional CLUBS with their own SUPPORTERS wanting to achieve success (and mostly failure!), they arent a testing ground for the England team
If the FA cant sort their own house out in terms of ownership, money, squad makeup/minimum national requirement, foreign mercenaries, and even worse the continued selection of players based on reputation and club then they get what they deserve - it was their greed that got us here in the first place after what was a pretty good World Cup 90 showing!
The Premier League was supposed to make things better, and bar Euro 96 at home, thats simply not happened - its no surprise that Germany and Spains stars generally play in their own countries, and play for top teams before moving abroad. However they learn their trade at mid table teams before the big guns snap them up.
As soon as any youngster shows any sniff of potential in England one of the big boys whops in a £50mill bid and sticks them on the bench for 5 years before they end up at Barnsley or Swindon on loan.
The Academy system is shite, kids under 15 should be playing with their mates and enjoying life in local leagues but perhaps on schoolboy terms at clubs for additional training - instead they are like a production line, straight after school, 2-3 hours training each night, parents shipping them all over the country at weekends playing meaningless games under intense pressure, then the majority discarded and dreams shattered at 15-16
A good league, schools and county system would be better with less self interest from clubs looking for the next Messi
If they want a successful England, they need a full review of how the talent is handled, stop big clubs stockpiling kids, get them out into lower league teams to learn the game and get experience to EARN a big move, take away the stupid money from 18 year olds who dont know the value of money yet (bring back YTS, cleaning boots etc!) - they dont need an Aston Martin at 18!
Instead we have a stupidly misguided FA that pisses about with Grassroots football making life difficult for volunteers and coaches with non stop rule changes and initiatives to 'improve the England team' (its a million to one any lads n dads kid would play for England!), yet they allow academies and big clubs to do whatever then want - thats where the future players are!
You could argue that there are too many kids in the academy system - its like they are taking no chances and going with volume over actually spotting talent.
Anyway I wish Big Sam all the best, but he isnt going to win much using the same rubbish players in the same rubbish system using the same rubbish tactics - I would rather he setup to play to his strengths, 442, big lad up top, grind out 1-0 wins when it matters - its done Italy no harm!
All this 4-5-1 nonsense and an obsession with a #10 has gone too far! Ronney was deeper than the centre halves at times last night - poor. Not helped by a woefully out of form Kane, picking Henderson and Lallana, Alli added impetus but kept falling over, Stones is completely overrated, Rose and Walker made some strange decisions
Walcott however needs to start, not sure if Vardy was injured or just not used but bringin on Sturidge? He just looked self interested for a change
Its just rotten. If he is picking players like Antonio, play them, shake things up a bit, make it OK to play for a non top 6 club and be picked for England.
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Post by kustokie on Sept 5, 2016 12:49:45 GMT
The Premier League has the big brands (the top clubs) and the customers (the fans) and quite some intellectual property in terms of how to run a (financially) successful league but like in so many walks of life we have largely outsourced the dirty business of actually playing the game to people from overseas because they do it better and more cheaply, as a result the national team suffers. Think of it like going in to Pret a Manger of Costa Coffee where you get served by a bright young thing from Portugal or Poland or Latvia or wherever it might be rather than some simpleton they have just dragged kicking and screaming from the job centre Sad but true. We have a similar issue over here - but The Donald is going to take care of all that. 11 million deportations in the first year and a big wall that Mexico is going to pay for. I think I might invest in cattle-truck futures! (Just kidding, at least about the cattle truck thing). |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 12:52:16 GMT
The Premier League has the big brands (the top clubs) and the customers (the fans) and quite some intellectual property in terms of how to run a (financially) successful league but like in so many walks of life we have largely outsourced the dirty business of actually playing the game to people from overseas because they do it better and more cheaply, as a result the national team suffers. Think of it like going in to Pret a Manger of Costa Coffee where you get served by a bright young thing from Portugal or Poland or Latvia or wherever it might be rather than some simpleton they have just dragged kicking and screaming from the job centre Not just Pret or Costa...there is 'Sexy Stefania' at the Crussh around the corner, and a really fit Swiss bird at our local boozer. It's the ugly ones we need to keep out of the country. Why take it out on the hotties? |
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Post by kustokie on Sept 5, 2016 12:59:28 GMT
Big Sam is a good coach and the best English coach available. He's not a miracle worker. I am very impatient person, but we have to give him a time. He's only been in the job a couple of weeks and he did win arguably the hardest match in the group. Roy "why am I here" Hogdson" was totally useless. Sam's a student of the game, a great motivator and a first class bloke. He's no Brian Clough but a huge improvement on the last one. Let's get behind him and the boys and him a chance.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 5, 2016 13:19:19 GMT
England are a long way off being one of the top Nations at Nogger, yet for some reason,English players cost far more than players from abroad.  |
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Sept 5, 2016 13:29:41 GMT
I think Hoddle is a twat. Always have done His comments on 'splitting the Championship into 2 divisions of 16 so that youth players can get experience and less games' yesterday summed it up - the Championship (and League One, Two and below) are full of traditional CLUBS with their own SUPPORTERS wanting to achieve success (and mostly failure!), they arent a testing ground for the England team If the FA cant sort their own house out in terms of ownership, money, squad makeup/minimum national requirement, foreign mercenaries, and even worse the continued selection of players based on reputation and club then they get what they deserve - it was their greed that got us here in the first place after what was a pretty good World Cup 90 showing! The Premier League was supposed to make things better, and bar Euro 96 at home, thats simply not happened - its no surprise that Germany and Spains stars generally play in their own countries, and play for top teams before moving abroad. However they learn their trade at mid table teams before the big guns snap them up. As soon as any youngster shows any sniff of potential in England one of the big boys whops in a £50mill bid and sticks them on the bench for 5 years before they end up at Barnsley or Swindon on loan. The Academy system is shite, kids under 15 should be playing with their mates and enjoying life in local leagues but perhaps on schoolboy terms at clubs for additional training - instead they are like a production line, straight after school, 2-3 hours training each night, parents shipping them all over the country at weekends playing meaningless games under intense pressure, then the majority discarded and dreams shattered at 15-16 A good league, schools and county system would be better with less self interest from clubs looking for the next Messi If they want a successful England, they need a full review of how the talent is handled, stop big clubs stockpiling kids, get them out into lower league teams to learn the game and get experience to EARN a big move, take away the stupid money from 18 year olds who dont know the value of money yet (bring back YTS, cleaning boots etc!) - they dont need an Aston Martin at 18! Instead we have a stupidly misguided FA that pisses about with Grassroots football making life difficult for volunteers and coaches with non stop rule changes and initiatives to 'improve the England team' (its a million to one any lads n dads kid would play for England!), yet they allow academies and big clubs to do whatever then want - thats where the future players are! You could argue that there are too many kids in the academy system - its like they are taking no chances and going with volume over actually spotting talent. Anyway I wish Big Sam all the best, but he isnt going to win much using the same rubbish players in the same rubbish system using the same rubbish tactics - I would rather he setup to play to his strengths, 442, big lad up top, grind out 1-0 wins when it matters - its done Italy no harm! All this 4-5-1 nonsense and an obsession with a #10 has gone too far! Ronney was deeper than the centre halves at times last night - poor. Not helped by a woefully out of form Kane, picking Henderson and Lallana, Alli added impetus but kept falling over, Stones is completely overrated, Rose and Walker made some strange decisions Walcott however needs to start, not sure if Vardy was injured or just not used but bringin on Sturidge? He just looked self interested for a change Its just rotten. If he is picking players like Antonio, play them, shake things up a bit, make it OK to play for a non top 6 club and be picked for England. Interesting comments about the Academies there Robo, I had not really given them much thought. I generally assumed they were part of the solution but I guess they are not bearing much fruit considering the amount of money being pumped into them by Premier League clubs. |
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Sept 5, 2016 13:31:16 GMT
England are a long way off being one of the top Nations at Nogger, yet for some reason,English players cost far more than players from abroad. Its quite simply because of the Home Grown quota every squad needs 8 of. So average english players are always going to cost more than decent foreign players. |
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 5, 2016 14:04:08 GMT
Lot of blame being thrown around, but at the end of the day I blame the players.
They are good enough, e.g. man for man England players are much better players than Slovakia or Iceland, what is wrong is their attitude and commitment. When they scored last night , you would think they had won the world cup*. Rooney gets a slight push in the back and he jumps on the floor claiming a penalty. Whereas the opposition players are prepared to put their bodies in the way of shots and give 100%. England players play like spoilt brats. The way they protested about the disallowed goal, if I was the ref I would have been sorely tempted to send 3 or 4 of them of for trying to intimidate, the way they were shouting in his face. What they need is a manager like Ramsay, Ferguson, Shankly, or Clough who would take them down a peg.
*When Jimmy Greaves scored he would pick up the ball from the back of the net and head back to the centre circle to try and get another one.
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