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Post by albion1 on Sept 2, 2016 8:52:14 GMT
From a few posts on here when Pulis first joined us and occasional visits since I know there's nothing everyone loves more (both Stoke and Albion fans) than a nice healthy balanced debate about everyone's favorite manager - Tony Pulis. Seriously has anyone ever split opinions quite as much as he has?
Anyway although I appreciate this will most likely turn out like pretty much every other Pulis thread over the last decade I was looking for some insight in to how your transfers were conducted when Pulis was in charge. Following the absolute fuck up that was our window and in particular deadline day there's plenty of rumors on where the blame lies with the new chairman now coming out and not so subtlety blaming Pulis for the collapse of the Camacho deal. Whilst I am sure both the club and Pulis are to blame in some area's I'm sure there were many similarities to windows you guys used to have under Pulis. Eg bids seemingly in for a player, a deal close and then 'someone' changes their mind and it's not completed after terms/medical have been agreed (Did Huddlestone not basically sign one year for you? Similar to our Sakho/Camacho deals this year). Also how everything seems to be left until deadline day? Stoke were always among the busiest teams from memory whilst I think h signed 5 players on TDD at Palace. It's noticeable now how much later we do the majority of our signings since Pulis arrived. Also who had the final say on transfers and did you have a technical or sporting director at the time and if so did they do anything or was it a token role. I wont bother going to to his preference for UK based talent as I think his distrust of anything foreign is pretty well established by now.
So yeh among the usual repies of 'oh great another Pulis thread' any insight you can give in to how the transfer system worked for you would be great.
As a side note you must be petty happy with the window in the end? I was surprised to see Wollscheid go even with Martins Indi signing? As for Berahino I'm not sure if you dodged a bullet or not. £20m seems steep but in the market for a domestic player aged 22 was probably a fair price. He's has been absolute dog shit for us for a while now. I think many fans blame this on his attitude but personally I think that's a bit lazy and the effort appears to be there. There's a very decent player in there and plenty of time for him to come good. I think a move to Stoke would be a great move for all 3 parties and would have backed him to score 15+ if he had signed for you. Since the mess with the Spurs move last season he is playing for a manager who doesn't want him and then plays him out of position and in front of fans where the large majority are on his back the first time he makes even the slightest mistake. Saying that missing 2 penalties in 1 game probably didn't help him win round any doubters.
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Post by salopstick on Sept 2, 2016 8:57:47 GMT
Players sign for pulis as a last resort Hence Transfer Deadline Day  |
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Post by ElworthPotter on Sept 2, 2016 8:59:43 GMT
Several players got as far as being pictured in a Stoke tracksuit only to fail the medical or have something else go wrong, something I'm very rarely aware of happening anywhere else. Deadline day was always busy as he "waited for apples to drop" during the window and tended to make his move late on. Think this window is the first time we've been properly busy bringing several players in on deadline day since Pulis left.
Was very worried coming into the last week of the window but Bony and Martins-Indi are good additions and we re-signed Arnautovic who I was convinced would leave. Joe Allen has looked superb so far. Hopefully this means we can only improve on our woeful start! Bony is probably a better signing than Saido would have been just a shame it's only a loan. I think Jeremy Peace has royally fucked up there for you lot by not taking the cash and letting him go
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Post by mattythestokie on Sept 2, 2016 9:01:17 GMT
What's your idea why Berahino never joined Stoke? Were you always after a replacement or was he just not wanted to be sold?
Is there a consensus over at WBA that you've very much missed out on £20million for a player who wants to leave, and can go for peanuts soon?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2016 9:01:23 GMT
Demba Ba.
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Post by salopstick on Sept 2, 2016 9:04:40 GMT
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Post by monkeymagic on Sept 2, 2016 9:06:52 GMT
Pulis has his delusional idea that it was good to leave it late as more people become available - it was the same every window and sometimes it did work but things change - irons in the fire, apples to drop, you name it - his style of play must make it difficult for the ones who others want too - I guess rarely would they choose this over others.
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Post by mattador78 on Sept 2, 2016 9:07:41 GMT
Palacious. Shudders violently.
Aresmedi. Scratches head.
Kitson. Vomits.
Sonko. Giggles.
But with pulis for everyone of those there is a fuller, beattie, shawcross, delap or walters. My opinion of tone is he has a system sticks to it does well then tries to improve what hes got and loses his head.
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coggy
Youth Player
Posts: 340
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Post by coggy on Sept 2, 2016 9:08:07 GMT
I always thought it was our transfer team why we went from A listers to Z listers.
I think we have seen this with W Brom this window so we see what the issue was.
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Post by mattador78 on Sept 2, 2016 9:09:21 GMT
Wba paid for carson and we got tommy for free oh the joys. |
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Post by nutterpotter on Sept 2, 2016 9:12:59 GMT
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Post by albion1 on Sept 2, 2016 9:15:04 GMT
What's your idea why Berahino never joined Stoke? Were you always after a replacement or was he just not wanted to be sold? Is there a consensus over at WBA that you've very much missed out on £20million for a player who wants to leave, and can go for peanuts soon? Plenty of theories, not sure anyone really knows the truth. Going back to the original Spurs bid I quite applaud our stance. Spurs were offering next to nothing up front with all the money in installments. Because Berahino was 'only' on £15k a week it was all very well selling him but because of FFP we were already close to our wage ceiling. With only £15k coming off the wage bill and £5m or so coming in from Spurs it left us in a tricky position as any half decent replacement would want at least £50k in wages which we couldn't afford under the FFP rules, even though as a club we could afford to pay it. There's also talk that with the takeover (which started last year and fell down last minute) Berahino was practically included in the valuation of the club. So the value was say £150m, which included Berahino as a £20m asset that could be sold within days of the new owners coming in if they so wished. Without him the value might have been £130m as even if the £20m was re invested we all know that especially when Pulis is involved £20m worth of spending doesn't always equal £20m worth of players. Not sure how much truth is in either of those and there may be other factors aswell but for last year I personally believe it was a combination of those 2. Last summer to an extent I backed our stance in the matter. However with the tweet and drop in form coupled with him not fitting in to Pulis plans it became clear he had to go. We then rejected another £20m+ bid in January from Newcastle which I think most would have accepted, the reason being this time we didn't want to sell to a relegation rival. There's reasoning behind it even though most would have sold. As for this summer - literally no idea. The 'buy a replacement' doesn't wash at all as it seems we were never really in for a striker other than the mysterious Sakho deal and I think 99% of fans can't believe he is still there. Makes absolutely no sense for anyone as apart from anything else he wont play in the first XI for Pulis and if he does it will be in a position hat doesn't suit him at all. Personally feel quite sorry for him. Kids a bit of an idiot but nowhere near as bad as he is made out to although other Albion fans will disagree with that. If he moves on a free in the summer we should get around £10m anyway in compensation unless he moves abroad when we get £0 which is something some have suggested he will do to spite us. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2016 9:18:14 GMT
Do you think Pulis will be sacked by the new Chairman, or will he walk first ?
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Post by richardparker on Sept 2, 2016 9:18:30 GMT
I don't envy you Baggies. Your guaranteed 6 points off us is very little compensation for all the trauma you have to deal with during the rest of the year.
Good luck!
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 2, 2016 9:20:30 GMT
I'm not convinced that even Toxic likes to leave it late. The facts are that unless you are prepared to significantly overspend (Benteke to Palace?) you are going to be down the pecking order hence irons in the fire, apples waiting to drop. It's pretty obvious it's a minefield for clubs our size.
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Post by albion1 on Sept 2, 2016 9:24:26 GMT
Do you think Pulis will be sacked by the new Chairman, or will he walk first ? Not sure as with the 'new' owner not officially in place until October I don't know who would make that decision. Peace won't sack him as he's of in 6 weeks. Lai wont sack him as he doesn't officially take charge for 6 weeks. Williams is a middle man at the moment but can surely only take that decision with he backing of either Peace or Lai. In the meantime I have little doubt Pulis would walk normally, but after Palace I'm not sure he can pull the same stunt again without it damaging his reputation even with his mates in the media backing him over it. He also had to pay Palace back the millions he took from them so financially he may aswell wait to either see out his contract or hope for a pay off. No inside info at all but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Pulis now hopes to be sacked with a nice pay off, from the comment made by Williams it's pretty clear theres already a conflict but I guess if he goes now or not depends on how serious the rift is. |
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Post by PerCyfilth ....Captains Log on Sept 2, 2016 9:33:42 GMT
Press today.... Tone on his way? Not that he has ever bought anyone "exciting".
Another man whose future could be in doubt after an unfulfilling transfer window is West Brom manager Tony Pulis, who the Express says is “considering” quitting the Hawthorns after the Baggies board failed to buy him anyone exciting.
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Post by alster on Sept 2, 2016 9:35:07 GMT
I think the combination of 2 very stubborn individuals Peace and Pulis have roundly fooked Berahino over. If he does go abroad for nothing don't be too surprised to see him rock up back in England the following window, an agent alluded to it on SSN the other day without naming names. Pulis held a lot of gratitude from many of our fans for achieving promotion combined with our run to the FA cup final during which in all honesty we were nothing special apart from the semi final. He splurged shit loads of money on ageing players and hated any money being spent on youth development and still thought of players as kiddies even up until their mid twenties. We employed a bloke called Cartwright in a technical director type capacity and its rumored their relationship was a difficulty for Pulis. He should keep you up if he stays but he'll suck any enjoyment out of the game for you fans. IMPO you'd be well rid of him as would football in general, he must be the most devicive man in football.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2016 9:36:16 GMT
Pulis will keep you up, its as simple as that, nothing less, nothing more.
I don't have a bad word to say about Pulis, he took us to the promised land.
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Post by march4 on Sept 2, 2016 9:40:24 GMT
WBA have the best manager in the world and the best manager in our history.
He aims to finish mid- table and that is exactly where you will finish.
If you are lucky you will get an FA Cup Final chucked in for free.
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Post by pyrus on Sept 2, 2016 9:43:09 GMT
TP's favorite phrases:
"Irons in the fire"
"Waiting for apples to drop"
"Crumbs from the main table"
He felt the best deals were to be had once all the big clubs had done their business and were looking to off-load their next level down players - hence dealing late in the window. While he was at Stoke he had an unhealthy relationship with his former mentor, Harry Redknapp, who would regularly fuck us over, stringing us along to assist how own activity - Exhibit A: £8Million for Wilson Palacios
Then you need to factor in that Tony needs to satisfy several criteria. DNA; minimum height; and defensive ability in at least ten players on the pitch (There was always room for one Ricardo Fuller who could do what they wanted and didn't give a shit anyway). You then have to accommodate that TP always gets his man. It was inevitable that one day he would sign Scott Dann, once day he will sign Joe Ledley, he will sign Peter Crouch again and and probably Jon Walters too. He sees value in trying to work with bad lads and redeem them and so I was surprised WBA didn't go for Balotelli - that would have been a typical TP signing (he would then have played in the midfield cage behind Rondon)
He doesn't really like kiddies or players with no premiership experience. Foreign players are okay, if they have previously played in the Prem. Generally, he would rather spend a fortune on a seasoned 30 year old premiership journeyman than a promising 18 year old genius. He doesn't like academies at all - he thinks they are expensive and useless, so grow your own is not in his plans.
After a while I think our owners felt he was out of control. £20million on Crouch and Palacios apparently did not go down well. Crouch was in his 30s and the owner clearly had doubts about the wisdom of buying players with no residual value. Having said that Crouch has been value for money - but I understand Coates point, when he eventually goes it will be on a free. As a result we put a transfer team in place to act as a check and do the negotiations without undue influence from Harry Redknapp. We bought some more creative players, but it wasn't long before TP was messing them around - playing a crap right back called Shotton at right wing instead of Jermaine Pennant, not playing Charlie Adam and telling him he had no future.
Ultimately TP always gets his own way ....until we realized we had stalled and we're going backwards. To most of it was all a bit Arthuir Daly. I think it was a factor in our decision to have him paid him off. It is noticeably different now. We usually like doing business at the start of a window, having worked on the deal over months. It feels like we are doing things a bit more professionally with the transfer team very active and influential working alongside the manager.
So, good luck with Tony. It's always entertaining. I will give him that.
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Post by salopstick on Sept 2, 2016 9:44:05 GMT
Bar our own St. Peter. Tone seems to attract clubs with lunatic chairmen. Hull or Cardiff next  |
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Post by realstokebloke on Sept 2, 2016 9:45:49 GMT
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Post by jeycov on Sept 2, 2016 9:50:08 GMT
From a few posts on here when Pulis first joined us and occasional visits since I know there's nothing everyone loves more (both Stoke and Albion fans) than a nice healthy balanced debate about everyone's favorite manager - Tony Pulis. Seriously has anyone ever split opinions quite as much as he has? Anyway although I appreciate this will most likely turn out like pretty much every other Pulis thread over the last decade I was looking for some insight in to how your transfers were conducted when Pulis was in charge. Following the absolute fuck up that was our window and in particular deadline day there's plenty of rumors on where the blame lies with the new chairman now coming out and not so subtlety blaming Pulis for the collapse of the Camacho deal. Whilst I am sure both the club and Pulis are to blame in some area's I'm sure there were many similarities to windows you guys used to have under Pulis. Eg bids seemingly in for a player, a deal close and then 'someone' changes their mind and it's not completed after terms/medical have been agreed (Did Huddlestone not basically sign one year for you? Similar to our Sakho/Camacho deals this year). Also how everything seems to be left until deadline day? Stoke were always among the busiest teams from memory whilst I think h signed 5 players on TDD at Palace. It's noticeable now how much later we do the majority of our signings since Pulis arrived. Also who had the final say on transfers and did you have a technical or sporting director at the time and if so did they do anything or was it a token role. I wont bother going to to his preference for UK based talent as I think his distrust of anything foreign is pretty well established by now. So yeh among the usual repies of 'oh great another Pulis thread' any insight you can give in to how the transfer system worked for you would be great. As a side note you must be petty happy with the window in the end? I was surprised to see Wollscheid go even with Martins Indi signing? As for Berahino I'm not sure if you dodged a bullet or not. £20m seems steep but in the market for a domestic player aged 22 was probably a fair price. He's has been absolute dog shit for us for a while now. I think many fans blame this on his attitude but personally I think that's a bit lazy and the effort appears to be there. There's a very decent player in there and plenty of time for him to come good. I think a move to Stoke would be a great move for all 3 parties and would have backed him to score 15+ if he had signed for you. Since the mess with the Spurs move last season he is playing for a manager who doesn't want him and then plays him out of position and in front of fans where the large majority are on his back the first time he makes even the slightest mistake. Saying that missing 2 penalties in 1 game probably didn't help him win round any doubters. Against all the odds Tony Pulis got Stoke to the Premiership and to the surprise of many kept us there. We did have exciting times here, the FA Cup Final being the highlight. European football came along as a bonus and we did very well . He encouraged as many fans as possible to travel to Valencia and we did just that. He did not play some of our key players however, putting survival in the Premiership first (divided opinions on that one) After that, the style of football became less exciting as the priority was not to concede. He did make some very good signings, not all left until the very last moment - N'Zonzi, Crouch, Shawcross, Sorensen, Begovic and indeed Butland although he stayed at Birmingham to begin with He had the full support of the board too We've moved on, have Mark Hughes at the helm now. and like Pulis has the full support of the board and the freedom to work in the transfer market This new regime and approach has highlighted the fact that Pulis took us as far as he could - away from the relegation zone with the bonus of a Cup Final. A major factor in this is that Hughes has both played and managed at the highest level. In particular the fact that he played in Europe for both Barcelona and Bayern Munich means that he has first hand experience of playing in another country as well as excellent contacts abroad - Pulis will never be able to compete with those statistics when trying to attract new players Equally I would say that West Brom would be unable to attract a manager like Hughes with such unrest among the hierarchy at The Hawthorns We have done well this window although lots of abuse from certain quarters when it seemed that we would "only" buy Joe Allen - a masterstroke in getting him here. Bony deal was done over a week ago but kept under the radar. Pity to lose Wollscheid although he did split opinions amongst the supporters, a bit like Huth I think that expressed his opinions with Hughes just once too many I would like to see as many Midlands teams in the Prem as possible so hope you survive and get a bit more stability at the club - whether the owners, the board and Pulis can work in harmony is another thing however |
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Post by fca47 on Sept 2, 2016 9:50:36 GMT
Just feed your own anti Pulis brigade, we don't need any more encouragement on here.
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Post by timbo1988 on Sept 2, 2016 9:55:40 GMT
Pulis with money is dangerous! He's better at bringing through the gems from lower leagues and on free transfers! We gave him big budgets and he blew it all on older expensive players who were no better than the free and cheap players he bought! The more expensive players also didn't suit the system or style which was ultimately his downfall with us!
On the huddlestone he had basically signed him but pulled the plug as found out he was mates with Pennant who Pulis had fell out with but was still at the club!
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Post by dutchstokie on Sept 2, 2016 10:03:13 GMT
Good to see a balanced opposition poster giving us insights into the world of west brom.
With 'haway' and 'hammered' also, we've got a few good people visiting......
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 2, 2016 10:13:03 GMT
Stoke will forever be in debt to TP for taking us into the top flight after years in the wilderness, establishing us there, and our first ever FA Cup final.
He has built a reputation as the man to go to avoid relegation and quite right too. He has also built a reputation for negative and "one route" football. As it happens things did turn out that way at Stoke in the end, but his brand of football also brought a lot of excitement when it worked with goals from dead ball situations and long throws. Things started to unravel when Stoke lost an effective winger. Fans now remember the last dire 6 months under TP, but we should remember he left us with and excellent defence, including Begovic, Whelan, and Butland, and brought in players like Crouch and N'Zonzi, and would have brought in Pieters earlier had he not injured his hand.
It always seemed to be TP's policy to go to the wire to secure a last minute deal/bargain. Personally I felt Stoke truly "arrived" as an established Prem side when he brought in Crouch, unfortunately that was also at the expense of Palacios. Since Stoke returned to the top flight with Fuller, there has been a fruitless search for a 15+ league goals a season striker, as with most clubs. TP bought loads and never succeeded and the story has continued with Mark Hughes. Hughes clearly much prefers to get his business done earlier, this window being the first time things have gone down to the wire, primarily due to his obvious determination to get Berahino and West Brom's policy, whatever that was!
In the end the window has worked out well for Stoke. I don't get the number of people decrying the loan out of Wollscheid, when he had loads of critics. I agree with letting him go, it wasn't working well enough with him, but agree it leaves us a bit thin with CBs whose fitness is in doubt. I very much support the loan arrangements as I can't get my head round the ridiculous prices being agreed. Naturally all the focus falls on the transfers, but for Stoke the most important aspect of the window is that we kept all our crown jewels, particularly Butland, and got Arni to sign a new contract.
It will still take time for the team to settle, but I am confident of another top half finish, especially when MH goes to the market in January. I'm sure he is not going to be messed around again like this summer and will go full out to get his targets like Palace and West Ham have done.
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Post by ElworthPotter on Sept 2, 2016 10:15:22 GMT
Pulis will keep you up, its as simple as that, nothing less, nothing more. I don't have a bad word to say about Pulis, he took us to the promised land. Amen |
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Post by realstokebloke on Sept 2, 2016 10:16:19 GMT
What's your idea why Berahino never joined Stoke? Were you always after a replacement or was he just not wanted to be sold? Is there a consensus over at WBA that you've very much missed out on £20million for a player who wants to leave, and can go for peanuts soon? Plenty of theories, not sure anyone really knows the truth. Going back to the original Spurs bid I quite applaud our stance. Spurs were offering next to nothing up front with all the money in installments. Because Berahino was 'only' on £15k a week it was all very well selling him but because of FFP we were already close to our wage ceiling. With only £15k coming off the wage bill and £5m or so coming in from Spurs it left us in a tricky position as any half decent replacement would want at least £50k in wages which we couldn't afford under the FFP rules, even though as a club we could afford to pay it. There's also talk that with the takeover (which started last year and fell down last minute) Berahino was practically included in the valuation of the club. So the value was say £150m, which included Berahino as a £20m asset that could be sold within days of the new owners coming in if they so wished. Without him the value might have been £130m as even if the £20m was re invested we all know that especially when Pulis is involved £20m worth of spending doesn't always equal £20m worth of players. Not sure how much truth is in either of those and there may be other factors aswell but for last year I personally believe it was a combination of those 2. Last summer to an extent I backed our stance in the matter. However with the tweet and drop in form coupled with him not fitting in to Pulis plans it became clear he had to go. We then rejected another £20m+ bid in January from Newcastle which I think most would have accepted, the reason being this time we didn't want to sell to a relegation rival. There's reasoning behind it even though most would have sold. As for this summer - literally no idea. The 'buy a replacement' doesn't wash at all as it seems we were never really in for a striker other than the mysterious Sakho deal and I think 99% of fans can't believe he is still there. Makes absolutely no sense for anyone as apart from anything else he wont play in the first XI for Pulis and if he does it will be in a position hat doesn't suit him at all. Personally feel quite sorry for him. Kids a bit of an idiot but nowhere near as bad as he is made out to although other Albion fans will disagree with that. If he moves on a free in the summer we should get around £10m anyway in compensation unless he moves abroad when we get £0 which is something some have suggested he will do to spite us.
Albion, all you need to know is that the basic balance sheet for us for TP reads:
+ he took us up
- he's a massive twat
That said, you obviously have the broad measure of him already. He did bring in some decent players obviously but also made some absolute car crash purchases too - and, as others have already alluded to, he did like to get up to some real fun and games in the transfer market.
And clearly, he is still at it with the saga that is SB. As alster says, it has been widely mooted in the meeja the likely route for SB & his agents / acolytes to go down now in order to get back in the Prem (possibly with us) is via a foreign club - royally shafting you guys for twenty big in the process.
So it will be interesting to see who the new take-away boys blame for that little deficit (if, indeed, SB was factored in as an asset in the first place as you suggest).
He's not going to change and with the lines drawn so publicly in the sand now, it will just be interesting to see just how this plays out and when he goes, not if.
Like you I think he'll be waiting for a big fat goodbye if the new owners are daft enough to pay him. I'm sure the Council Tax for Sandbanks must be crippling him these days after Parish took his trousers down last year.
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