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Post by johnnysoul60 on Aug 22, 2016 12:28:51 GMT
Imbula has had time now to get used the game here , he has to either put the effort in or leave and I hope MH is making that clear privately
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 22, 2016 12:54:33 GMT
Allen is our SNZ replacement. We seem to have made a rather expensive mistake in signing Imbula, and have now put it right. So does this mean that our 18m man sits on the bench for now? Yes - for the good of the team, which must come above all individuals. He must either learn to shoulder some of the defensive burden, or go back to a league where he can coast around the pitch. Hughes has to be brave and make tough decisions, and this is one of them.
As for the much needed Whelan cover/upgrade, my old obsession with Yann M'Vila, who has not signed for Sunderland after his loan stint, is still alive and kicking!!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 13:09:11 GMT
I'm starting to feel melancholy towards all this DM, CM, AM bollocks. Would it be possible to broach the idea of 442 or am I just regaling the past? Could we simply have 2 hard working midfielders that are box to box and benefit from two up front? Yes we could. This idea that you have to play with a midfielder who does nothing but shield the back four is absolute bollocks.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 22, 2016 15:14:08 GMT
I'm starting to feel melancholy towards all this DM, CM, AM bollocks. Would it be possible to broach the idea of 442 or am I just regaling the past? Could we simply have 2 hard working midfielders that are box to box and benefit from two up front? Yes we could. This idea that you have to play with a midfielder who does nothing but shield the back four is absolute bollocks. That's true. But whether Imbula has the full skill set to be one of a two man midfield is open to some doubt. A two man midfield of, say, Allen and Imbula might well suffer because it could expose Imbula's lack of defensive awareness. Allen and Affelay would work better - although that isn't currently an option.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Aug 22, 2016 15:23:41 GMT
As Jezza says, for all of Imbula's qualities, we may have dropped a big bollock in signing him, or he's just going to take longer to kick into gear
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 22, 2016 15:31:56 GMT
As Jezza says, for all of Imbula's qualities, we may have dropped a big bollock in signing him, or he's just going to take longer to kick into gear I really hope it is the latter, as we are hardly going to find a club willing to give us our money back for an expensive misfit .......unless Alan Pardew fancies him!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 15:46:23 GMT
Yes we could. This idea that you have to play with a midfielder who does nothing but shield the back four is absolute bollocks. That's true. But whether Imbula has the full skill set be be one of a two man midfield is open to some doubt. A two man midfield of, say, Allen and Imbula might well suffer because it could expose Imbula's lack of defensive awareness. Allen and Affelay would work better - although that isn't currently an option. Allen and Affelay. Now there is a midfield I'd like to see.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Aug 22, 2016 15:51:45 GMT
As Jezza says, for all of Imbula's qualities, we may have dropped a big bollock in signing him, or he's just going to take longer to kick into gear I really hope it is the latter, as we are hardly going to find a club willing to give us our money back for an expensive misfit .......unless Alan Pardew fancies him! We mustn't scaremonger mate, but it's just a feeling. He can look like a Rolls-Royce at times but he can't work in a two so someone is going to have to miss out if he's to really flourish.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 16:48:09 GMT
Yes we could. This idea that you have to play with a midfielder who does nothing but shield the back four is absolute bollocks. That's true. But whether Imbula has the full skill set to be one of a two man midfield is open to some doubt. A two man midfield of, say, Allen and Imbula might well suffer because it could expose Imbula's lack of defensive awareness. Allen and Affelay would work better - although that isn't currently an option. I wouldn't be playing Imbula at the minute if I was Hughes.
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 22, 2016 16:56:03 GMT
I really hope it is the latter, as we are hardly going to find a club willing to give us our money back for an expensive misfit .......unless Alan Pardew fancies him! We mustn't scaremonger mate, but it's just a feeling. He can look like a Rolls-Royce at times but he can't work in a two so someone is going to have to miss out if he's to really flourish. Imbula is an immensely gifted footballer. We should do our best to keep him and help him develop his all round game, but to play in that middle two he simply must be aware of his defensive duties. He can't just do half a job. The number 10 role doesn't seem to suit him either (he needs to pick the ball up and drive forward from deeper), so we either change our shape to suit him (unlikely) or he needs to get to grips with what is required of a central midfielder in England. If not, his stay at Stoke could be far shorter than any of us would like, which would be a real shame.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 17:01:08 GMT
We mustn't scaremonger mate, but it's just a feeling. He can look like a Rolls-Royce at times but he can't work in a two so someone is going to have to miss out if he's to really flourish. Imbula is an immensely gifted footballer. We should do our best to keep him and help him develop his all round game, but to play in that middle two he simply must be aware of his defensive duties. He can't just do half a job. The number 10 role doesn't seem to suit him either (he needs to pick the ball up and drive forward from deeper), so we either change our shape to suit him (unlikely) or he needs to get to grips with what is required of a central midfielder in England. If not, his stay at Stoke could be far shorter than any of us would like, which would be a real shame. He needs to be box-to-box for me. Most of his talents point that way - however, he needs to add harrying, intercepting and tackling to his game to truly allow his talents to come to the fore.
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Post by stokie1954 on Aug 22, 2016 17:08:42 GMT
Imbula was a waste of money. Offers very little in this league. Again Hughes obsession with midfield players!.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Aug 22, 2016 17:14:04 GMT
I'm not entirely sure about the Imbula doubts. He's not a kid, but he does seem raw as heck. But masses of good attributes. A player who'll need coaching, instruction {couldn't resist} not discarding. I'll need to see some high/lowlights later but as I recall it despite all Joe Allen's tremendous efforts, when Imbula left the field we proceeded to relinquish the midfield. {Hindsight but Adam would have been a better replacement than SJW, who could have replaced Diouf.} Remember seeing Imbula take a pretty hefty kick to the top of his foot, and I'm sure that's the point where the game did start to pass him by. It seemed to me that there were a few players {as well as supporters} who became stunned spectators as Joe Allen bobbed and weaved and got stuck in. It was a strange game where we competed {but for shitty set-piece stuff} until Imbula was bought off. I know he doesn't release it soon enough at times etc etc but still his drives are a wonder to see, gains yards and relieves pressure and will continue to give results like Bournemouth.
Too disturbing a concept to think of him becoming marginal.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 17:26:37 GMT
I'm not entirely sure about the Imbula doubts. He's not a kid, but he does seem raw as heck. But masses of good attributes. A player who'll need coaching, instruction {couldn't resist} not discarding. I'll need to see some high/lowlights later but as I recall it despite all Joe Allen's tremendous efforts, when Imbula left the field we proceeded to relinquish the midfield. {Hindsight but Adam would have been a better replacement than SJW, who could have replaced Diouf.} Remember seeing Imbula take a pretty hefty kick to the top of his foot, and I'm sure that's the point where the game did start to pass him by. It seemed to me that there were a few players {as well as supporters} who became stunned spectators as Joe Allen bobbed and weaved and got stuck in. It was a strange game where we competed {but for shitty set-piece stuff} until Imbula was bought off. I know he doesn't release it soon enough at times etc etc but still his drives are a wonder to see, gains yards and relieves pressure and will continue to give results like Bournemouth. Too disturbing a concept to think of him becoming marginal. I find it absolutely mind blowing that a 18 million pound 23 year old midfield player still requires coaching and instruction. For me he's living off his time in France. Stoke City cannot and should not spend that sort of money on potential. Judging by his body language he's not happy and I think we'll take a massive financial hit on him. I just don't see how dribbling past 3-4 players makes him a good midfield player. He doesn't look like he's prepared to to the dirty work too me. I really wish Affelay was fit. Him and Joe Allen would be one hell of an engine room.
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Post by iamcliveclarke on Aug 22, 2016 17:56:35 GMT
Ffs if he had been the finished article we would've had to pay double what we did. He's young enough to learn, most people on here didn't think Allen had it in him before Saturday!
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Post by TexasPotter on Aug 22, 2016 17:59:04 GMT
It's kind of hard to play in a midfield 2 instead of the usual 3 up higher the pitch with Whelan 20 yards behind walking around looking to pass backwards.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Aug 22, 2016 18:09:49 GMT
I'm not entirely sure about the Imbula doubts. He's not a kid, but he does seem raw as heck. But masses of good attributes. A player who'll need coaching, instruction {couldn't resist} not discarding. I'll need to see some high/lowlights later but as I recall it despite all Joe Allen's tremendous efforts, when Imbula left the field we proceeded to relinquish the midfield. {Hindsight but Adam would have been a better replacement than SJW, who could have replaced Diouf.} Remember seeing Imbula take a pretty hefty kick to the top of his foot, and I'm sure that's the point where the game did start to pass him by. It seemed to me that there were a few players {as well as supporters} who became stunned spectators as Joe Allen bobbed and weaved and got stuck in. It was a strange game where we competed {but for shitty set-piece stuff} until Imbula was bought off. I know he doesn't release it soon enough at times etc etc but still his drives are a wonder to see, gains yards and relieves pressure and will continue to give results like Bournemouth. Too disturbing a concept to think of him becoming marginal. I find it absolutely mind blowing that a 18 million pound 23 year old midfield player still requires coaching and instruction. For me he's living off his time in France. Stoke City cannot and should not spend that sort of money on potential. Judging by his body language he's not happy and I think we'll take a massive financial hit on him. I just don't see how dribbling past 3-4 players makes him a good midfield player. He doesn't look like he's prepared to to the dirty work too me. I really wish Affelay was fit. Him and Joe Allen would be one hell of an engine room. Agree with the Afellay point, gutted for him and us. Never 100% sure about the body language stuff, open to all sorts of interpretations I think there's a lot more to what he does than just the blind alley stuff, which he does need to do less of. Agreed. I havn't got a clue how it'll pan out, perhaps he'll become rotational with Joe, maybe Hughes will persevere with a 3 man midfield. Dunno. It was odd yesterday, Whelan was a bit of a spectator and Joe covered so much ground it's hard to draw to any conclusions {for me.} Far too talented a footballer to send to Coventry! When the youtube vid appeared on here when he was linked, there was talk of him being a 'Beast', Wanyama Toure type, I didn't see that {and said it at the time} so I've tried not to use that type of player as a yardstick. I had vague recollections of him being a driving midfielder {a bit of a turbo Zonz} who Charlie had to kick out of the friendly! Who knows maybe he won't have the application to adapt, polish some of the edges, some players rise to the challenge. I hope does.
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 22, 2016 18:37:02 GMT
"Far too talented a footballer to send to Coventry!" Indeed, I don't see a loan move to the Sky Blues helping either!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 18:43:21 GMT
Ffs if he had been the finished article we would've had to pay double what we did. He's young enough to learn, most people on here didn't think Allen had it in him before Saturday! Why would we have needed to have paid double? Joe Allen was 5 million pounds less and looks very much the finished article. 18 million quid was in January a huge amount of money for a club like ours to have paid. This was in the period before the pre Summer transfer madness kicked in. For me we've taken a huge gamble that he fulfils his potential. We'll see but IMO the indications are not great.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Aug 23, 2016 0:51:02 GMT
It's the start of the season and we just lost to the potential champions of England, and I am really reading that Imbula has damaged us financially, he's living off his time in France, he doesn't look happy and is a waste of money.
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Post by pottarius on Aug 23, 2016 1:44:40 GMT
It's the start of the season and we just lost to the potential champions of England, and I am really reading that Imbula has damaged us financially, he's living off his time in France, he doesn't look happy and is a waste of money. He's joining Wolly as a hate figure for some it seems - must be the gloves thing Attachment Deleted
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Post by oslostokie1 on Aug 23, 2016 6:37:45 GMT
Give Allen a go at DM against Stevenage and play him there against Everton if he does well.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Aug 23, 2016 7:00:57 GMT
Only one option for me get in a DM and play Imbula and Allen in a 3.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Aug 23, 2016 7:06:14 GMT
Bojan is more of a concern than Imbula, at least Imbula tries to effect a game and fuck it, I'm not even wearing a tin hat for this one.
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Post by jeycov on Aug 23, 2016 7:12:56 GMT
Imbula and Allen have started 2, yes just 2, Premier League games, one against this seasons potential champions.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Aug 23, 2016 7:28:48 GMT
Only one option for me get in a DM and play Imbula and Allen in a 3. So is that the end of Bojan then?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 23, 2016 7:35:05 GMT
I've read a few posters saying that Allen is the n'zonzi replacement.
As well as he played on Saturday, I'm happy to proclaim here and now that he isn't even close to him. There is no way n'zonzi would have been outmuscled the way Allen was in the build up to their 3rd goal.
Allen is a good player. A very good player. Steven n'zonzi he ain't though.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 23, 2016 7:39:40 GMT
Only one option for me get in a DM and play Imbula and Allen in a 3. So is that the end of Bojan then? Funnily enough I've just asked that exact same question on the Phil Jones thread.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 23, 2016 7:43:28 GMT
I've read a few posters saying that Allen is the n'zonzi replacement. As well as he played on Saturday, I'm happy to proclaim here and now that he isn't even close to him. There is no way n'zonzi would have been outmuscled the way Allen was in the build up to their 3rd goal. Allen is a good player. A very good player. Steven n'zonzi he ain't though. He's as close to a N'Zonzi replacement as we've had so far Dave. No two players are going to be exactly the same are they?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2016 7:44:36 GMT
So is that the end of Bojan then? Funnily enough I've just asked that exact same question on the Phil Jones thread. It's a question I've been hinting at but avoiding for the last week or two also.
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