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Post by hchpotter on Aug 14, 2016 11:16:06 GMT
He's certainly not a right winger.
How frustrating must it be for Diouf, Crouch, Joselu to see a winger get out wide and then check back to pull the ball on to his stronger foot? The forward then has to check his run, the defence has time to get back, and the ball is delivered at an angle that is easier for defenders and keepers to defend against.
If the intention is for the winger to cut in and shoot could someone remind me how many saves Valdes had to make yesterday?
The whole of our build up from Given rolling the ball out to Ryan, through to Whelan playing sideways, and our wide men checking back is far too ponderous. People say we set up as a counter-attacking side but we're not effective at counter attacking because we're a very slow team. Arnie might be able to run quickly but if he needs to check back to his right foot before he delivers the ball his pace, and that of Diouf, is negated. Not only is the style ineffective it's tedious to watch.
Given the run of form we endured in 2016 and the new money that has come into the club I think it was pretty negligent to start yesterday's game without a single new face in the starting XI. Out of interest did any other club adopt this policy?
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 14, 2016 15:00:17 GMT
Shaq is a no.10 by inclination. The only way him and Bojan should play together is if Bojan plays up top with Shaq in behind but we sacrifice physicality and pace in that case. Shaq is a square peg in a round hole on the right. Play Walters there and try both little magicians in the middle. Walters could at least hold the ball up there and be a threat coming off the wing on crosses.
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Post by ethers26 on Aug 14, 2016 16:14:05 GMT
I wasn't there, no, and my stream was abysmal, but the constant pauses helped us analyse the game like a video tape😂 The defensive shape is horrendous.
I hope Allen will replace Whelan, but I have a feeling he'll play alongside him and Imbula (at the expense of a number 10 on occasions).
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Post by ElworthPotter on Aug 14, 2016 16:23:28 GMT
After yesterday I'd play Shaqiri in the middle and drop Bojan. Bojan was dire yesterday as he was for much of last season, although I was happy to put it down to his recovery from injury for the most part. Shaq is far better than Bojan centrally at the moment and doesn't effect the game when he's out wide.
Only problem is that then leaves a winger spot up for grabs. Is Sobhi ready? Probably not yet. Revert back to Walters?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 16:28:51 GMT
Why do Switzerland play him wide, why did Inter play him wide, why did Bayern play him wide and why did Basel play him wide?
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Post by ElworthPotter on Aug 14, 2016 16:30:15 GMT
Why do Switzerland play him wide, why did Inter play him wide, why did Bayern play him wide and why did Basel play him wide? m He was miles better for Switzerland as a 10 in the euros in the match he played there. Miles better
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Post by numpty40 on Aug 14, 2016 16:31:41 GMT
Could Imbula play on the right wing? He certainly got the close control and pace to do so! Then we could change between Shaq and Bojan, and play Glen and Allen in the middle too! Imbula right wing?? You seriously couldn't make this up I was smiling at a brilliant ironic post, didn't realise he was serious
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Post by kustokie on Aug 14, 2016 16:38:12 GMT
I've been saying this for a long time. Stick him the middle, play Sohbi and Arnie on the wings, Imbula and Allen (or Whelan) behind. Bojan and Shaq can fight it out for #10.
Sorted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 16:40:10 GMT
Why do Switzerland play him wide, why did Inter play him wide, why did Bayern play him wide and why did Basel play him wide? m He was miles better for Switzerland as a 10 in the euros in the match he played there. Miles better I agree and it wasn't a loaded question. I've suggested we try him there myself and I just wondered why so many different coaches see him as a wide right?
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Post by potterspele on Aug 14, 2016 17:02:41 GMT
m He was miles better for Switzerland as a 10 in the euros in the match he played there. Miles better I agree and it wasn't a loaded question. I've suggested we try him there myself and I just wondered why so many different coaches see him as a wide right? No idea about Basel. Bayern played schweinsteiger and Muller in midfield with Alonso in behind I think so probably saw him as competition for the wide positions. Mancini had about 5 tactics going on at man city as I remember so maybe not much call for a number 10 if he carried it on at Inter. Switzerland only seemed to learn the error of their ways at half time.
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Post by swissattack on Aug 14, 2016 17:53:05 GMT
Thats why hughes will never be a top team coach or never with success. He is missing something. I just can not believe how stubborn he is. Shaqiri would be a great winger in a top team because there he will get many passes from his quality teammates. but sorry with stoke this does not work. stoke does not have the quality to put shaqiri on the winger. hughes is in my eyes wrong. he bought no defender? allen on the bench? bojan is no nr. 10 and played totally shit. Did you see that hughes wanted to sub shaqiri just when the goal happend? in the swiss national team shaq has not to back track and plays normaly not as winger or is free to change during the game. shaq is the key for the success for stoke on the nr. 10!!!!!!!!! give him 5 games as 10 and he will show that he is worldclass. right now i can not watch it anymore. it is a shame how shaq is wastet on the winger because his teammates almost never give him the ball. hughes is the wrong coach. the next games will show i am right or not but i feel very worrying about hughes. i like him as human but as coach he is missing something really...he just buy fancy names and after he dont know what to do .... now i know why manchester city did kick him out and not gave him a chance.....because he is so fucking stubborn!
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Post by swissattack on Aug 14, 2016 18:00:42 GMT
and not to bring allen who can support shaqiri and the wingers perfectly is just mind blowing. and what is the answer from hughes? he has to bite his time like all team mates do....is this a school football team or what? why nobody buys whelan or other players? why many wanted allen? because he is shit? if allen would play from beginning i would say stoke won. it is true there is a huge gab in the middle and allen is the perfect player to close it. first i thought hughes is great to buy him and he understands what is missing. but after the game i saw hughes say he was totally satisfied with the game and he thinks stoke control the game well and stoke were better....? and he never subs....thats why i think with a other coach stoke would play better football. stoke has all the players do play great but plays shit....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 18:39:59 GMT
Imbula right wing?? You seriously couldn't make this up Just a thought as I don't think Shaq is very effective out wide, and it would also free up a place for Allen. Think it is too much luxury to keep a £13M signing on the subs bench too! We also seem to be loaded with players for a certain position right now (Bojan, Shaq, Charlie, Allen, Afellay, Ireland), but do we really have a right winger? So just to fit Allen in the team we move imbula right wing? Ridiculous. It's going be a long season and everyone will get there chance but i guarantee you that imbula will never ever play right wing. And rightly so
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Post by robwahlmann on Aug 14, 2016 19:01:18 GMT
Just a thought as I don't think Shaq is very effective out wide, and it would also free up a place for Allen. Think it is too much luxury to keep a £13M signing on the subs bench too! We also seem to be loaded with players for a certain position right now (Bojan, Shaq, Charlie, Allen, Afellay, Ireland), but do we really have a right winger? So just to fit Allen in the team we move imbula right wing? Ridiculous. It's going be a long season and everyone will get there chance but i guarantee you that imbula will never ever play right wing. And rightly so I'm sure you right, but I would really have liked to see him cut in from the right, glide past the fullbacks and release thunderous shots at goal!
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Post by milky on Aug 14, 2016 19:08:53 GMT
and not to bring allen who can support shaqiri and the wingers perfectly is just mind blowing. and what is the answer from hughes? he has to bite his time like all team mates do....is this a school football team or what? why nobody buys whelan or other players? why many wanted allen? because he is shit? if allen would play from beginning i would say stoke won. it is true there is a huge gab in the middle and allen is the perfect player to close it. first i thought hughes is great to buy him and he understands what is missing. but after the game i saw hughes say he was totally satisfied with the game and he thinks stoke control the game well and stoke were better....? and he never subs....thats why i think with a other coach stoke would play better football. stoke has all the players do play great but plays shit.... Allen was way behind fitness wise due to his late start to pre season due to Wales unexpected performance in the euros. Williams didn't start for Everton yesterday ,their new 12 million defender,probably for the same reason. Is Ronald Koeman an idiot too ?
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Aug 14, 2016 19:18:19 GMT
He has a starting position / team formation position as the right side of a 3. But that 3 should be fluid. Arnie, Bojan and Shaq are free to roam and create chances, our real wide men SHOULD be our fullbacks Johnson does this very well Eric can do bar his crossing We really need two young energetic full backs if they are to provide the width Johnson I agree is good going forward but its a lot of running for his age and neither Bards or Cam are really the answer , Eric is more of a defender. Two fast energetic full backs would make a difference
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Post by GeneralFaye on Aug 14, 2016 19:22:43 GMT
Thats why hughes will never be a top team coach or never with success. He is missing something. I just can not believe how stubborn he is. Shaqiri would be a great winger in a top team because there he will get many passes from his quality teammates. but sorry with stoke this does not work. stoke does not have the quality to put shaqiri on the winger. hughes is in my eyes wrong. he bought no defender? allen on the bench? bojan is no nr. 10 and played totally shit. Did you see that hughes wanted to sub shaqiri just when the goal happend? in the swiss national team shaq has not to back track and plays normaly not as winger or is free to change during the game. shaq is the key for the success for stoke on the nr. 10!!!!!!!!! give him 5 games as 10 and he will show that he is worldclass. right now i can not watch it anymore. it is a shame how shaq is wastet on the winger because his teammates almost never give him the ball. hughes is the wrong coach. the next games will show i am right or not but i feel very worrying about hughes. i like him as human but as coach he is missing something really...he just buy fancy names and after he dont know what to do .... now i know why manchester city did kick him out and not gave him a chance.....because he is so fucking stubborn! We've got more quality in our side than Switzerland judging by the Euro's.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 19:26:38 GMT
So just to fit Allen in the team we move imbula right wing? Ridiculous. It's going be a long season and everyone will get there chance but i guarantee you that imbula will never ever play right wing. And rightly so I'm sure you right, but I would really have liked to see him cut in from the right, glide past the fullbacks and release thunderous shots at goal! I think you've just hit our problem straight on the head there... both wingers we have cut inside everytime they get the ball. We need an out and out speedster that can turn defenders and put them on the back foot. Were too one dimensional imho
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Aug 14, 2016 19:36:39 GMT
I'm sure you right, but I would really have liked to see him cut in from the right, glide past the fullbacks and release thunderous shots at goal! I think you've just hit our problem straight on the head there... both wingers we have cut inside everytime they get the ball. We need an out and out speedster that can turn defenders and put them on the back foot. Were too one dimensional imho Can't agree with that mate, both have the ability to go on outside, Arnie has proved it numerous times, I just don't think Hughes is asking them too. I think he's relying far to much on the full backs to create width and use to the other two to get into the box.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Aug 14, 2016 19:43:07 GMT
Arnie and Shaq have the capability of going on the outside and beating the full back, Shaq tried it twice yesterday and did it with ease. The problem is they both get stuck in their ways and need reminding to mix it up more often. We lack variety and a surprise element when they both come inside over and over when they don't actually need to. Arnie in particular has the pace and strength to ghost past the fullback and should do it more if it stops Eric crossing the damn ball.
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Post by liamo on Aug 14, 2016 19:44:38 GMT
He's not a traditional winger and I don't think Hughes wants him to be either, both he and Arnie want to be coming inside, in order for them to be able to do that you HAVE to get your fullbacks up the pitch to provide width, it's why Shaq plays better when Johnson is on the pitch
Also fans who mainly support their national team come across as arrogant, If Shaqiri isn't doing well it's on Shaqiri and nobody else, nobody but Imbula really covered themselves in glory yesterday, stop making excuses for players just because he's your golden boy, Shaqiri is just as lucky to have Stoke as we are to have him
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 19:46:12 GMT
I think you've just hit our problem straight on the head there... both wingers we have cut inside everytime they get the ball. We need an out and out speedster that can turn defenders and put them on the back foot. Were too one dimensional imho Can't agree with that mate, both have the ability to go on outside, Arnie has proved it numerous times, I just don't think Hughes is asking them too. I think he's relying far to much on the full backs to create width and use to the other two to get into the box. I agree regarding the full backs bud. Johnson is a huge loss. As Bardsley can't do the same. Pieters looked lost yesterday. I think there's times we need that winger with that electric pace. I like arnie and shaq but we've not got that pace that could really stretch a full back. Redmond would have been ideal or even someone like a Lennon. We've not seen sobhi yet so he might be the one
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Post by chrisparker on Aug 14, 2016 19:59:24 GMT
Play the players in there best positions,MH has brought these players into the club with no plan of were to play them.We have too many players who play in the same positions.Shaqiri is no winger and us playing him out there is not fair on him.He needs to be in the action areas of the pitch,not getting frustrated out on the wing.The team needs a out and out winger,at this moment we don't have one.So I would drop Bojan put Shaqiri in the No10 role and SJW out wide until we get a proper winger,Shaqiri can then spend his time at the top of the pitch not helping out his fullbacks which SJW does well. Shaqiri has played as a winger for every club he's ever played for which is why signed him in the first place ffs.
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Post by no1972 on Aug 14, 2016 20:09:57 GMT
Play the players in there best positions,MH has brought these players into the club with no plan of were to play them.We have too many players who play in the same positions.Shaqiri is no winger and us playing him out there is not fair on him.He needs to be in the action areas of the pitch,not getting frustrated out on the wing.The team needs a out and out winger,at this moment we don't have one.So I would drop Bojan put Shaqiri in the No10 role and SJW out wide until we get a proper winger,Shaqiri can then spend his time at the top of the pitch not helping out his fullbacks which SJW does well. Shaqiri has played as a winger for every club he's ever played for which is why signed him in the first place ffs. He may of except for Basel ,they have fucked him off because as a winger he's not good enough.As a inside forward he is more dangerous.Top sides don't let top players go cheap unless they are not up to it.
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Post by swissattack on Aug 14, 2016 20:12:48 GMT
yes i am a shaqiri fan and i support stoke because of this. i am happy stoke wins. i think you get it wrong. hughes is good to be 9. in the league but he has not the winner mentality like klopp or jose has. i just can not follow hughes ideas about this system? and do you not think bardsley is not good enough? or i am the only one who thinks this guy is not good enough? so he buys imbulas shaqiris allens und has bardsley and still crouch? you buy skill players and you still want crouch in this age? this show me something is wrong with hughes. what if 2 defenders are out with longtime injury? what then? take u21 players? hughes bought a big engine but has no idea to put this engine on... i think bojan is the problem in this squad. out of form long time, lost in the system. .... shaq is shit defending as well. this was clear always. and bojan way up front somewhere and runs somewhere. you can not have 2 who not defending. so why put shaqiri on the wing when he defends shit? and bojan as well is not defending well. he is a pace player who puts the head down and runs. never a nr. 10/ ok allen not fit so why he put not fit players on the bench? actually on the euro shaqiri did play on the wing but with more freedom to move inside and no bojan arround and lichtsteiner as leftback....and sorry but the swiss national team has more quality as stoke. even i like stoke this has to be said:) sorry but after watching nearly all games since shaqiri arrived i have to say hughes is the wrong coach to go to the top 6...i hope hughes prove me wrong and win the next game. then i will change my mind about the hughes system:)
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Post by chrisparker on Aug 14, 2016 20:18:34 GMT
I strongly disagree. The whole point of playing him & Arnie as wingers is that when one of them gets the ball (usually Shaqiri), the other starts running inwards straight towards the opposition box, becoming virtually a second striker. These inward cross field through balls by both wingers was one of our most effective attacking strategies from last season (perhaps even the only one) and to play Shaq in the number 10 role would mean this will no longer work (let's be honest Walters is not going to pick out a through ball of that sort). You're right he's not a traditional winger but neither is Arnie & Hughes is fully aware of this.
Plus Shaq was given his chances to play in the number 10 role last season, particularly in the games against Leicester away from home & the second half against West Brom & he was god awful in both games. Yesterday it's true that our play improved when Shaq replaced Bojan in the middle but that has more to do with the fact that Bojan was absolute shite the whole game & anything that followed would've seemed like an upgrade.
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Post by ElworthPotter on Aug 14, 2016 20:22:30 GMT
I strongly disagree. The whole point of playing him & Arnie as wingers is that when one of them gets the ball (usually Shaqiri), the other starts running inwards straight towards the opposition box, becoming virtually a second striker. These inward cross field through balls by both wingers was one of our most effective attacking strategies from last season (perhaps even the only one) and to play Shaq in the number 10 role would mean this will no longer work (let's be honest Walters is not going to pick out a through ball of that sort). You're right he's not a traditional winger but neither is Arnie & Hughes is fully aware of this. Plus Shaq was given his chances to play in the number 10 role last season, particularly in the games against Leicester away from home & the second half against West Brom & he was god awful in both games. Yesterday it's true that our play improved when Shaq replaced Bojan in the middle but that has more to do with the fact that Bojan was absolute shite the whole game & anything that followed would've seemed like an upgrade. It worked twice against Man City and at Everton away. You won't score anywhere as many goals by doing this as you would by getting the ball in the box regularly for a goal scorer to attack
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Post by no1972 on Aug 14, 2016 20:22:56 GMT
I strongly disagree. The whole point of playing him & Arnie as wingers is that when one of them gets the ball (usually Shaqiri), the other starts running inwards straight towards the opposition box, becoming virtually a second striker. These inward cross field through balls by both wingers was one of our most effective attacking strategies from last season (perhaps even the only one) and to play Shaq in the number 10 role would mean this will no longer work (let's be honest Walters is not going to pick out a through ball of that sort). You're right he's not a traditional winger but neither is Arnie & Hughes is fully aware of this. Plus Shaq was given his chances to play in the number 10 role last season, particularly in the games against Leicester away from home & the second half against West Brom & he was god awful in both games. Yesterday it's true that our play improved when Shaq replaced Bojan in the middle but that has more to do with the fact that Bojan was absolute shite the whole game & anything that followed would've seemed like an upgrade. My main reason to move him inside is we need someone with more pace out wide,as he and Arnie are not the quickest.
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Post by chrisparker on Aug 14, 2016 20:23:39 GMT
yes i am a shaqiri fan and i support stoke because of this. i am happy stoke wins. i think you get it wrong. hughes is good to be 9. in the league but he has not the winner mentality like klopp or jose has. i just can not follow hughes ideas about this system? and do you not think bardsley is not good enough? or i am the only one who thinks this guy is not good enough? so he buys imbulas shaqiris allens und has bardsley and still crouch? you buy skill players and you still want crouch in this age? this show me something is wrong with hughes. what if 2 defenders are out with longtime injury? what then? take u21 players? hughes bought a big engine but has no idea to put this engine on... i think bojan is the problem in this squad. out of form long time, lost in the system. .... shaq is shit defending as well. this was clear always. and bojan way up front somewhere and runs somewhere. you can not have 2 who not defending. so why put shaqiri on the wing when he defends shit? and bojan as well is not defending well. he is a pace player who puts the head down and runs. never a nr. 10/ ok allen not fit so why he put not fit players on the bench? actually on the euro shaqiri did play on the wing but with more freedom to move inside and no bojan arround and lichtsteiner as leftback....and sorry but the swiss national team has more quality as stoke. even i like stoke this has to be said:) sorry but after watching nearly all games since shaqiri arrived i have to say hughes is the wrong coach to go to the top 6...i hope hughes prove me wrong and win the next game. then i will change my mind about the hughes system:) So the Hughes out brigade are out in force again huh? So tell me who would you have in instead of him?
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Aug 14, 2016 20:25:54 GMT
Can't agree with that mate, both have the ability to go on outside, Arnie has proved it numerous times, I just don't think Hughes is asking them too. I think he's relying far to much on the full backs to create width and use to the other two to get into the box. I agree regarding the full backs bud. Johnson is a huge loss. As Bardsley can't do the same. Pieters looked lost yesterday. I think there's times we need that winger with that electric pace. I like arnie and shaq but we've not got that pace that could really stretch a full back. Redmond would have been ideal or even someone like a Lennon. We've not seen sobhi yet so he might be the one I agree about needing another option, I do think both our current two could do it, full back is definitely a position we need to look at. As for Sobhi I'm not really expecting much yet, it's a lot of pressure at 19, but he may surprise us!
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