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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Apr 1, 2017 6:35:19 GMT
Going well so far, no new trade negotiations alongside the negotiations to leave! Oops. And Gibraltar's fucked apparently. Still , never mind, every thing will be fine because we say it will, so no need to worry. Gibraltar fucked? Not a chance any British PM would sign away their sovereignty unless the people wanted it. Spanish are worried about losing fishing waters as they have the biggest fleet in the EU. Let's see if the EU holds this line, carry on like this may as well just save 30 billion or whatever we'll pay in during negotiations and toddle of now. Good luck jumping off that cliff edge!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2017 7:26:05 GMT
Gibraltar fucked? Not a chance any British PM would sign away their sovereignty unless the people wanted it. Spanish are worried about losing fishing waters as they have the biggest fleet in the EU. Let's see if the EU holds this line, carry on like this may as well just save 30 billion or whatever we'll pay in during negotiations and toddle of now. Good luck jumping off that cliff edge! Jumping off that cliff edge should be put in the same draw as punishment budget. It's scare mongering rubbish and I can't believe people are listening to it.
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Post by xchpotter on Apr 1, 2017 7:35:31 GMT
I don't get why some really want Brexit to fail. I mean, what is the motive for doing this...just so you can say I told you so? Whether we like it or not we are where we are so make the most of it. Or would that be just too much for some who wouldn't be happy until their hoped for vision of Armageddon came to pass just to say "I told you so".....its just weird.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2017 8:21:38 GMT
Let's say we never had a referendum to leave the eu and we became very close members in the way 48% of the voters and all the eu want
So that leaves Brussels free and open to implement their main objective ....Full intergration of all nation states into a super state
Now, once this happens and we've handed everything over...where do you believe that leaves us as a people?
What's stopping us from being brought down to the level of the Greek people, the Romanians etc? (Haven't Brussels already said that democracy is dangerous)
If we don't like the way the commission are running things (back scratching , corruption , favouritism etc)
How do we change things?
Or do we just have to do what they tell us, like we do with them now only no opt out option.
Where do I put my cross if I want change?
Dont tell me our mp's because when you have the all powerful commission and upto 27 other bodies to fight against how does the little man have any power whatsoever?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2017 9:01:30 GMT
Gibraltar fucked? Not a chance any British PM would sign away their sovereignty unless the people wanted it. Spanish are worried about losing fishing waters as they have the biggest fleet in the EU. Let's see if the EU holds this line, carry on like this may as well just save 30 billion or whatever we'll pay in during negotiations and toddle of now. Good luck jumping off that cliff edge! Even for you the EU using brexit as a land grab should be a bit disturbing. They are starting to show their true colours now and the result will be a more united britain. Many remainers are shifting their view now because the picture is becoming clearer what the EU is all about.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 1, 2017 9:20:00 GMT
Good luck jumping off that cliff edge! Even for you the EU using brexit as a land grab should be a bit disturbing. They are starting to show their true colours now and the result will be a more united britain. Many remainers are shifting their view now because the picture is becoming clearer what the EU is all about. I agree Codeye, political control , economic control, ever closer union, screwing the UK, self interest .....trade does not need embassrs, flags, a single currency, free movement, a European court, and hundreds of embassies. In my experience some trainers are now having to face up to this fact.....BUT this could make negotiations extremely difficult as the real purpose of the EU, political unity, is not specifically on the agenda..... the EU will have to make it very difficult for us, by any means they can, to maintain control and free others. The turbulence will be their doing , not Brexit, because they have been deceitful all along with our Mps being complicit out of self interest) and they cannot accept that the full extent of their control is not needed to facilitate trade. The lies are being exposed.
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 1, 2017 9:27:04 GMT
Let's say we never had a referendum to leave the eu and we became very close members in the way 48% of the voters and all the eu want So that leaves Brussels free and open to implement their main objective ....Full intergration of all nation states into a super state Now, once this happens and we've handed everything over...where do you believe that leaves us as a people? What's stopping us from being brought down to the level of the Greek people, the Romanians etc? (Haven't Brussels already said that democracy is dangerous) If we don't like the way the commission are running things (back scratching , corruption , favouritism etc) How do we change things? Or do we just have to do what they tell us, like we do with them now only no opt out option. Where do I put my cross if I want change? Dont tell me our mp's because when you have the all powerful commission and upto 27 other bodies to fight against how does the little man have any power whatsoever? Thats a post full of assumptions, most of them dodgy to say the least! You think back scratching, corruption, favouritism doesn't go on in Westminster, or in the Lords, or in the City, or amongst the media moguls where real power lies??? Where have you been?
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Apr 1, 2017 9:29:29 GMT
Let's say we never had a referendum to leave the eu and we became very close members in the way 48% of the voters and all the eu want So that leaves Brussels free and open to implement their main objective ....Full intergration of all nation states into a super state Now, once this happens and we've handed everything over...where do you believe that leaves us as a people? What's stopping us from being brought down to the level of the Greek people, the Romanians etc? (Haven't Brussels already said that democracy is dangerous) If we don't like the way the commission are running things (back scratching , corruption , favouritism etc) How do we change things? Or do we just have to do what they tell us, like we do with them now only no opt out option. Where do I put my cross if I want change? Dont tell me our mp's because when you have the all powerful commission and upto 27 other bodies to fight against how does the little man have any power whatsoever? "back scratching,corruption,favouritism"? Crikey! I had no idea that the E.U. is being run like U.K.I.P.!
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 1, 2017 9:41:51 GMT
Even for you the EU using brexit as a land grab should be a bit disturbing. They are starting to show their true colours now and the result will be a more united britain. Many remainers are shifting their view now because the picture is becoming clearer what the EU is all about. I agree Codeye, political control , economic control, ever closer union, screwing the UK, self interest .....trade does not need embassrs, flags, a single currency, free movement, a European court, and hundreds of embassies. In my experience some trainers are now having to face up to this fact.....BUT this could make negotiations extremely difficult as the real purpose of the EU, political unity, is not specifically on the agenda..... the EU will have to make it very difficult for us, by any means they can, to maintain control and free others. The turbulence will be their doing , not Brexit, because they have been deceitful all along with our Mps being complicit out of self interest) and they cannot accept that the full extent of their control is not needed to facilitate trade. The lies are being exposed. I can see whats happening here. Creating a narrative that says if it wasn't for these smelly foreigners messing us around, trying to stop all the things 'we' enjoy in life, we could just get on and bask in our perfect democracy (?!?!?!) and get back to enjoying our lives, like in the days of Raj!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2017 9:43:33 GMT
Let's say we never had a referendum to leave the eu and we became very close members in the way 48% of the voters and all the eu want So that leaves Brussels free and open to implement their main objective ....Full intergration of all nation states into a super state Now, once this happens and we've handed everything over...where do you believe that leaves us as a people? What's stopping us from being brought down to the level of the Greek people, the Romanians etc? (Haven't Brussels already said that democracy is dangerous) If we don't like the way the commission are running things (back scratching , corruption , favouritism etc) How do we change things? Or do we just have to do what they tell us, like we do with them now only no opt out option. Where do I put my cross if I want change? Dont tell me our mp's because when you have the all powerful commission and upto 27 other bodies to fight against how does the little man have any power whatsoever? "back scratching,corruption,favouritism"? Crikey! I had no idea that the E.U. is being run like U.K.I.P.! UKIP or Labour, you could have used either.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Apr 1, 2017 9:47:08 GMT
"back scratching,corruption,favouritism"? Crikey! I had no idea that the E.U. is being run like U.K.I.P.! UKIP or Labour, you could have used either. And 'Six Jobs Tory Osborne' is not an example of "back scratching, corruption, favouritism"?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 1, 2017 9:48:33 GMT
I agree Codeye, political control , economic control, ever closer union, screwing the UK, self interest .....trade does not need embassrs, flags, a single currency, free movement, a European court, and hundreds of embassies. In my experience some trainers are now having to face up to this fact.....BUT this could make negotiations extremely difficult as the real purpose of the EU, political unity, is not specifically on the agenda..... the EU will have to make it very difficult for us, by any means they can, to maintain control and free others. The turbulence will be their doing , not Brexit, because they have been deceitful all along with our Mps being complicit out of self interest) and they cannot accept that the full extent of their control is not needed to facilitate trade. The lies are being exposed. I can see whats happening here. Creating a narrative that says if it wasn't for these smelly foreigners messing us around, trying to stop all the things 'we' enjoy in life, we could just get on and bask in our perfect democracy (?!?!?!) and get back to enjoying our lives, like in the days of Raj! Not at all...I love Europe, Europeans and a bit of multiculturalism. Do you think the EU wants political Union?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 1, 2017 9:52:31 GMT
UKIP or Labour, you could have used either. And 'Six Jobs Tory Osborne' is not an example of "back scratching, corruption, favouritism"? I agree The Osborne scenario certainly needs stopping...you are right, one of the finest examples of the political elite doing anything, arrogance, not listening to the electorate, telling lies to feather his own and his ilk's nest, selling out to the EU at the expense of the electorate.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2017 9:58:33 GMT
UKIP or Labour, you could have used either. And 'Six Jobs Tory Osborne' is not an example of "back scratching, corruption, favouritism"? You could throw all parties in to it in that case. Unlike you i am not devoted to one single party, sheep follow. I don't like UKIP, but you could have chosen better. There are parties which better suit your point, but you have an agenda so are blinkered. Osbourne should be removed as an MP, i don't agree with it and no other MP should be allowed to have any other jobs. They should not be allowed to make investments in housing or in anything in which they may have some inside knowledge.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2017 10:15:56 GMT
Let's say we never had a referendum to leave the eu and we became very close members in the way 48% of the voters and all the eu want So that leaves Brussels free and open to implement their main objective ....Full intergration of all nation states into a super state Now, once this happens and we've handed everything over...where do you believe that leaves us as a people? What's stopping us from being brought down to the level of the Greek people, the Romanians etc? (Haven't Brussels already said that democracy is dangerous) If we don't like the way the commission are running things (back scratching , corruption , favouritism etc) How do we change things? Or do we just have to do what they tell us, like we do with them now only no opt out option. Where do I put my cross if I want change? Dont tell me our mp's because when you have the all powerful commission and upto 27 other bodies to fight against how does the little man have any power whatsoever? Thats a post full of assumptions, most of them dodgy to say the least! You think back scratching, corruption, favouritism doesn't go on in Westminster, or in the Lords, or in the City, or amongst the media moguls where real power lies??? Where have you been? All depends which you are calling "assumptions" Of course it happens.....but we have the power over our governments It's called A DEMOCRATIC VOTE What do you have with an eu superstate where one of the leading people have already come out and said something like..."democracy is a dangerous word" Aren't the remainers doing a lot of assuming?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Apr 1, 2017 10:26:26 GMT
Gibraltar fucked? Not a chance any British PM would sign away their sovereignty unless the people wanted it. Spanish are worried about losing fishing waters as they have the biggest fleet in the EU. Let's see if the EU holds this line, carry on like this may as well just save 30 billion or whatever we'll pay in during negotiations and toddle of now. Good luck jumping off that cliff edge!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Apr 2, 2017 15:13:29 GMT
Let's say we never had a referendum to leave the eu and we became very close members in the way 48% of the voters and all the eu want So that leaves Brussels free and open to implement their main objective ....Full intergration of all nation states into a super state Now, once this happens and we've handed everything over...where do you believe that leaves us as a people? What's stopping us from being brought down to the level of the Greek people, the Romanians etc? (Haven't Brussels already said that democracy is dangerous) If we don't like the way the commission are running things (back scratching , corruption , favouritism etc) How do we change things? Or do we just have to do what they tell us, like we do with them now only no opt out option. Where do I put my cross if I want change? Dont tell me our mp's because when you have the all powerful commission and upto 27 other bodies to fight against how does the little man have any power whatsoever? Isn't that precisely the same set of arguments people in the independent kingdoms of Mercia or Wessex or Northumbria or Kent or East Anglia would have made 1000 years ago to avoid joining a superstate which, for argument's sake, we'll call England? You think it sounds ridiculous because here you are 1000 years later in a successfully unified country called England which has actually gone even further and united with countries called Wales and Scotland and Northern Ireland to form a successful (and most importantly - peaceful) country called the United Kingdom, all of which activity would have been overseen by people like yourself saying exactly what you just did! And by the way, the languages, customs, laws etc were all different in those countries/areas back then too! So not so very different!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Apr 2, 2017 15:22:39 GMT
I can see whats happening here. Creating a narrative that says if it wasn't for these smelly foreigners messing us around, trying to stop all the things 'we' enjoy in life, we could just get on and bask in our perfect democracy (?!?!?!) and get back to enjoying our lives, like in the days of Raj! Not at all...I love Europe, Europeans and a bit of multiculturalism. Do you think the EU wants political Union? Wouldn't political union make war less likely between the current nations of Europe? Wouldn't it steadily reduce inequality across Europe, when inequality is widely recognised as a major contributor to domestic strife and international dispute and war? Wouldn't it lead to greater co-operation between existing countries? Or is it simply that those foreigners are a bit scary with their foreign ways and we're quite happy having nothing to do with them thank you very much? Which is basically the same point I've made above about the formation of England 1000 years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 15:44:38 GMT
Let's say we never had a referendum to leave the eu and we became very close members in the way 48% of the voters and all the eu want So that leaves Brussels free and open to implement their main objective ....Full intergration of all nation states into a super state Now, once this happens and we've handed everything over...where do you believe that leaves us as a people? What's stopping us from being brought down to the level of the Greek people, the Romanians etc? (Haven't Brussels already said that democracy is dangerous) If we don't like the way the commission are running things (back scratching , corruption , favouritism etc) How do we change things? Or do we just have to do what they tell us, like we do with them now only no opt out option. Where do I put my cross if I want change? Dont tell me our mp's because when you have the all powerful commission and upto 27 other bodies to fight against how does the little man have any power whatsoever? Isn't that precisely the same set of arguments people in the independent kingdoms of Mercia or Wessex or Northumbria or Kent or East Anglia would have made 1000 years ago to avoid joining a superstate which, for argument's sake, we'll call England? You think it sounds ridiculous because here you are 1000 years later in a successfully unified country called England which has actually gone even further and united with countries called Wales and Scotland and Northern Ireland to form a successful (and most importantly - peaceful) country called the United Kingdom, all of which activity would have been overseen by people like yourself saying exactly what you just did! And by the way, the languages, customs, laws etc were all different in those countries/areas back then too! So not so very different! No. It's nothing fucking like it.
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 2, 2017 15:54:40 GMT
Isn't that precisely the same set of arguments people in the independent kingdoms of Mercia or Wessex or Northumbria or Kent or East Anglia would have made 1000 years ago to avoid joining a superstate which, for argument's sake, we'll call England? You think it sounds ridiculous because here you are 1000 years later in a successfully unified country called England which has actually gone even further and united with countries called Wales and Scotland and Northern Ireland to form a successful (and most importantly - peaceful) country called the United Kingdom, all of which activity would have been overseen by people like yourself saying exactly what you just did! And by the way, the languages, customs, laws etc were all different in those countries/areas back then too! So not so very different! No. It's nothing fucking like it. Sounds like john cravens news round
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 16:04:42 GMT
No. It's nothing fucking like it. Sounds like john cravens news round
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 2, 2017 16:09:13 GMT
Not at all...I love Europe, Europeans and a bit of multiculturalism. Do you think the EU wants political Union? Wouldn't political union make war less likely between the current nations of Europe? Wouldn't it steadily reduce inequality across Europe, when inequality is widely recognised as a major contributor to domestic strife and international dispute and war? Wouldn't it lead to greater co-operation between existing countries? Or is it simply that those foreigners are a bit scary with their foreign ways and we're quite happy having nothing to do with them thank you very much? Which is basically the same point I've made above about the formation of England 1000 years ago. You could believe that, and argue that it would. It's a shame the EU is not/ has not been honest enough to argue openly for political union and tried to take a few folks with them. The anti EU feeling isn't confined to the Brits. For me the histories of the nation states are too diverse and have histories which have added to the great culture of Europe. to have true political ( which inevitably means monetary) union, certainly in a democratic way. For the life of me, I dont understand those who simply want to leave decision making to " those others who know best" It's interesting that the return of UK passport is a tangible sign of leaving, personally I am happy to have an identity thapt is in the first instance British or English. I am not knocking foreigners. I am knocking the EU as an organisation. It is impossible to predict the future, as much as the Remainers in my opinion are hoping for doom and gloom. It may be a fault, but I prefer to believe in ourselves and to be optimistic.....nothing wrong in that aspiration , parts of Spain, hope for the same, as do political movements in Scotland, Ireland, Wales , France etc etc As far as European wars are concerned , who knows? We've had the Balkans, and there is trouble in Ukraine, not particularly the UK's fault but some would argue is to do with EU expansionism ( which has been the policy since it was formed) And then we have the issue of radical Islam and a surreptitious cultural war. On leaving ( and it is not compulsory to be a member) I don't think that the UK will declare war on say Greece....mind you who knows the outcome of the EU/Spain's provocative stance on Gibraltar, deliberately so to make things difficult...and which will have implications for the Falklands. For me blind acceptance of the EU has been con trick to which some are waking up. And I would like to add....Leaving the EU certainly will not solve any of our problems, which have been listed on here many times before..but we will have more control. Anyway Red at least you are clear that you favour political union in the control of "the EU", at least that is honest and upfront.
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 2, 2017 17:18:14 GMT
Wouldn't political union make war less likely between the current nations of Europe? Wouldn't it steadily reduce inequality across Europe, when inequality is widely recognised as a major contributor to domestic strife and international dispute and war? Wouldn't it lead to greater co-operation between existing countries? Or is it simply that those foreigners are a bit scary with their foreign ways and we're quite happy having nothing to do with them thank you very much? Which is basically the same point I've made above about the formation of England 1000 years ago. You could believe that, and argue that it would. It's a shame the EU is not/ has not been honest enough to argue openly for political union and tried to take a few folks with them. The anti EU feeling isn't confined to the Brits. For me the histories of the nation states are too diverse and have histories which have added to the great culture of Europe. to have true political ( which inevitably means monetary) union, certainly in a democratic way. For the life of me, I dont understand those who simply want to leave decision making to " those others who know best" It's interesting that the return of UK passport is a tangible sign of leaving, personally I am happy to have an identity thapt is in the first instance British or English. I am not knocking foreigners. I am knocking the EU as an organisation. It is impossible to predict the future, as much as the Remainers in my opinion are hoping for doom and gloom. It may be a fault, but I prefer to believe in ourselves and to be optimistic.....nothing wrong in that aspiration , parts of Spain, hope for the same, as do political movements in Scotland, Ireland, Wales , France etc etc As far as European wars are concerned , who knows? We've had the Balkans, and there is trouble in Ukraine, not particularly the UK's fault but some would argue is to do with EU expansionism ( which has been the policy since it was formed) And then we have the issue of radical Islam and a surreptitious cultural war. On leaving ( and it is not compulsory to be a member) I don't think that the UK will declare war on say Greece....mind you who knows the outcome of the EU/Spain's provocative stance on Gibraltar, deliberately so to make things difficult...and which will have implications for the Falklands. For me blind acceptance of the EU has been con trick to which some are waking up. And I would like to add....Leaving the EU certainly will not solve any of our problems, which have been listed on here many times before..but we will have more control. Anyway Red at least you are clear that you favour political union in the control of "the EU", at least that is honest and upfront. Forcing political union didn't work in the Soviet Union or Yugoslavia lessons have not been learned . Treating the citizens of Europe like servants of the EU rather than its masters will end in tears
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 17:40:02 GMT
Not at all...I love Europe, Europeans and a bit of multiculturalism. Do you think the EU wants political Union? Wouldn't political union make war less likely between the current nations of Europe? Wouldn't it steadily reduce inequality across Europe, when inequality is widely recognised as a major contributor to domestic strife and international dispute and war? Wouldn't it lead to greater co-operation between existing countries? Or is it simply that those foreigners are a bit scary with their foreign ways and we're quite happy having nothing to do with them thank you very much? Which is basically the same point I've made above about the formation of England 1000 years ago. I know NATO makes war less likely in europe
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Post by felonious on Apr 2, 2017 17:43:37 GMT
Wouldn't political union make war less likely between the current nations of Europe? Wouldn't it steadily reduce inequality across Europe, when inequality is widely recognised as a major contributor to domestic strife and international dispute and war? Wouldn't it lead to greater co-operation between existing countries? Or is it simply that those foreigners are a bit scary with their foreign ways and we're quite happy having nothing to do with them thank you very much? Which is basically the same point I've made above about the formation of England 1000 years ago. I know NATO makes war less likely in europe It's a good job we've got NATO with EU policies towards the former Soviet block.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Apr 2, 2017 17:47:12 GMT
Not at all...I love Europe, Europeans and a bit of multiculturalism. Do you think the EU wants political Union? Wouldn't political union make war less likely between the current nations of Europe? Wouldn't it steadily reduce inequality across Europe, when inequality is widely recognised as a major contributor to domestic strife and international dispute and war? Wouldn't it lead to greater co-operation between existing countries? Or is it simply that those foreigners are a bit scary with their foreign ways and we're quite happy having nothing to do with them thank you very much? Which is basically the same point I've made above about the formation of England 1000 years ago. Which European countries do you think might actually go to war? You mean shooting at each other and rolling tanks across borders? By reducing inequality across Europe do you mean between Nations or within Nations? Obviously internal inequality is a domestic issue. What does greater co-operation between existing countries even mean? Greater co-operation in what?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 22:12:22 GMT
Not at all...I love Europe, Europeans and a bit of multiculturalism. Do you think the EU wants political Union? Wouldn't political union make war less likely between the current nations of Europe? Wouldn't it steadily reduce inequality across Europe, when inequality is widely recognised as a major contributor to domestic strife and international dispute and war? Wouldn't it lead to greater co-operation between existing countries? Or is it simply that those foreigners are a bit scary with their foreign ways and we're quite happy having nothing to do with them thank you very much? Which is basically the same point I've made above about the formation of England 1000 years ago. I think inequality would become worse over time and we would just have a two tier system, the rich, the poor and no middle, which seems to be the direction we have been going in.
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Post by hammered on Apr 2, 2017 22:26:36 GMT
From the Telegraph "Iain Duncan Smith, a Tory MP and former Conservative leader, said: "We have put into the place half a trillion pounds over the past 40 years which has never come back. That's invested in all sorts of stuff there.
"We have intellectual property rights, physical investment in buildings, money in the European investment bank. We own a chunk of the EU, we don't owe them any money.
"They are petrified that in two years time we will pull out and they will lose the second highest donor to the Budget.We should sweep that to one side and say honestly, these back of the envelope calculations do nobody any good."
This in a nutshell is the squabble - the EU knows already it's in a tail-spin it won't recover from IMO. And the "land-grab" of Gibraltar just another turd this corrupt (allegedly), self serving conquest by stealth democracy throws in the road.
I think in ten years Europe will look very different. As for the UK? well down to us now - I hope!!
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 3, 2017 5:09:45 GMT
From the Telegraph "Iain Duncan Smith, a Tory MP and former Conservative leader, said: "We have put into the place half a trillion pounds over the past 40 years which has never come back. That's invested in all sorts of stuff there. "We have intellectual property rights, physical investment in buildings, money in the European investment bank. We own a chunk of the EU, we don't owe them any money. "They are petrified that in two years time we will pull out and they will lose the second highest donor to the Budget.We should sweep that to one side and say honestly, these back of the envelope calculations do nobody any good." This in a nutshell is the squabble - the EU knows already it's in a tail-spin it won't recover from IMO. And the "land-grab" of Gibraltar just another turd this corrupt (allegedly), self serving conquest by stealth democracy throws in the road. I think in ten years Europe will look very different. As for the UK? well down to us now - I hope!! I agree entirely. Two observations though Much will depend upon the quality and strength of our negotiators, not allowing themselves to cede points/ money unnecessarily just for the sake of appeasement and " getting on with it". ID S is correct, if anything we should have a refund. If one of your main sources of income disappears rather than continue with unsustainable, unaccountable spending most people would consider what commitments they could cancel, cut some unnecessary expenditure ( like the monthly decamp to Strasbourg) or sell a few assets ( such as the embasses) ..or cut salaries. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/02/britain-will-get-money-back-eu-instead-paying-leave-plans-considered/On the full realisation of what is 0happening to " the project" and themselves personally the EU elite will use every nasty tactic possible to undermine the UK ( I've not seen a lot in the press about the principle of using people as bargaining chips ie the comparison of ex-pats and the Gibraltarians)....the negotiations may well end in " no deal" which the EU will love to blame on the UK ( it takes two to negotiate) .....and many on here will jump at the chance of swallowing this.....simply because they favour the EU over the UK , irrespective of any arguments.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 5:45:39 GMT
From the Telegraph "Iain Duncan Smith, a Tory MP and former Conservative leader, said: "We have put into the place half a trillion pounds over the past 40 years which has never come back. That's invested in all sorts of stuff there. "We have intellectual property rights, physical investment in buildings, money in the European investment bank. We own a chunk of the EU, we don't owe them any money. "They are petrified that in two years time we will pull out and they will lose the second highest donor to the Budget.We should sweep that to one side and say honestly, these back of the envelope calculations do nobody any good." This in a nutshell is the squabble - the EU knows already it's in a tail-spin it won't recover from IMO. And the "land-grab" of Gibraltar just another turd this corrupt (allegedly), self serving conquest by stealth democracy throws in the road. I think in ten years Europe will look very different. As for the UK? well down to us now - I hope!! Wait until they try to lure an independant scotland and northern ireland too. They won't go down without a fight and the land grab won't stop with Gibraltar.
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