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Post by lawrieleslie on Jul 2, 2016 9:19:14 GMT
When you see England players wearing headphones it says it all for me. We have the talent possibly, but we have no team spirit and have had a manager who picks players from certain teams instead of form payers. Stirling, Henderson, Wilshere, Hart are just some of these examples. Stirling in particular is the epitome of "can run fast and kick a ball" not necessarily at the same time.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 9:21:26 GMT
It needs a manager to have the balls to discard players who in essence have taken plaudits but have offered very little I'm talking Cahil,Wilshire,and the like and drop players like Hart,Smalling,Sterling,Lallana and sadly Rooney who are only stuck by for to the clubs they play for etc etc Hodgson was a shithouse and didn't have those balls I don't think many managers in world football wouldn't have taken the majority of those players though and rightly so imo. It's what we did with them that stunk. And why would they take them? Well Cahill is seen as the best English CB by a lot of people. The only way of a Dann/Shawcross going was as a 4th choice. Wilshere- worth the gamble but the issue was he gambled on Henderson (who isn't good enough anyway) and thinks he's a holding midfielder. Which is ridiculous. Agreed with the dropping bit apart from Smalling. Where are these centre halves we're dropping him for? Wilshere was not worth the gamble and I said that at the time not with hindsight. Henderson is just shit as well as not even being fit. I fail to see how an in form and confident Drinkwater and Townsend wouldn't have been better options as well as sending the right message to the squad......
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Post by werrington on Jul 2, 2016 9:22:07 GMT
It needs a manager to have the balls to discard players who in essence have taken plaudits but have offered very little I'm talking Cahil,Wilshire,and the like and drop players like Hart,Smalling,Sterling,Lallana and sadly Rooney who are only stuck by for to the clubs they play for etc etc Hodgson was a shithouse and didn't have those balls I don't think many managers in world football wouldn't have taken the majority of those players though and rightly so imo. It's what we did with them that stunk. And why would they take them? Well Cahill is seen as the best English CB by a lot of people. The only way of a Dann/Shawcross going was as a 4th choice. Wilshere- worth the gamble but the issue was he gambled on Henderson (who isn't good enough anyway) and thinks he's a holding midfielder. Which is ridiculous. Agreed with the dropping bit apart from Smalling. Where are these centre halves we're dropping him for? I forgot about Henderson Bayern ...he's another one Cahil has always gone under the radar .....Dann,Shawcross are and always have been better than him its all too late now but it needs addressing and quite possibly last Monday could be the best thing that's happened to the English national side since 66 Grasp the nettle and have some balls
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Post by werrington on Jul 2, 2016 9:23:50 GMT
When you see England players wearing headphones it says it all for me. We have the talent possibly, but we have no team spirit and have had a manager who picks players from certain teams instead of form payers. Stirling, Henderson, Wilshere, Hart are just some of these examples. Stirling in particular is the epitome of "can run fast and kick a ball" not necessarily at the same time. 90% of all players around the world have headphones lawrie It's called youth mate .....they aren't the reason a player fails
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 2, 2016 9:29:16 GMT
I don't think many managers in world football wouldn't have taken the majority of those players though and rightly so imo. It's what we did with them that stunk. And why would they take them? Well Cahill is seen as the best English CB by a lot of people. The only way of a Dann/Shawcross going was as a 4th choice. Wilshere- worth the gamble but the issue was he gambled on Henderson (who isn't good enough anyway) and thinks he's a holding midfielder. Which is ridiculous. Agreed with the dropping bit apart from Smalling. Where are these centre halves we're dropping him for? Wilshere was not worth the gamble and I said that at the time not with hindsight. Henderson is just shit as well as not even being fit. I fail to see how an in form and confident Drinkwater and Townsend wouldn't have been better options as well as sending the right message to the squad...... Wilshere is our best central midfielder for me and I think one gamble like that is ok. They should have gone but for Barkley and one of the strikers. We didn't need all of them.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 2, 2016 9:31:45 GMT
I don't think many managers in world football wouldn't have taken the majority of those players though and rightly so imo. It's what we did with them that stunk. And why would they take them? Well Cahill is seen as the best English CB by a lot of people. The only way of a Dann/Shawcross going was as a 4th choice. Wilshere- worth the gamble but the issue was he gambled on Henderson (who isn't good enough anyway) and thinks he's a holding midfielder. Which is ridiculous. Agreed with the dropping bit apart from Smalling. Where are these centre halves we're dropping him for? I forgot about Henderson Bayern ...he's another one Cahil has always gone under the radar .....Dann,Shawcross are and always have been better than him its all too late now but it needs addressing and quite possibly last Monday could be the best thing that's happened to the English national side since 66 Grasp the nettle and have some balls I can't abide Cahill and wouldn't want him down here but I'm the wider game he's very highly rated. I have no idea why but he is. I just don't see a new manager dropping him. Unless they want to give Stones the opportunity to fook everything up.
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Post by charlesjefferson on Jul 2, 2016 9:35:26 GMT
When you see England players wearing headphones it says it all for me. We have the talent possibly, but we have no team spirit and have had a manager who picks players from certain teams instead of form payers. Stirling, Henderson, Wilshere, Hart are just some of these examples. Stirling in particular is the epitome of "can run fast and kick a ball" not necessarily at the same time. 90% of all players around the world have headphones lawrie It's called youth mate .....they aren't the reason a player fails Exactly, there was a discussion on here not that long back regarding Stoke players always being on their phones, having headphones on and not talking etc. It was viewed as "a worry". However, when Mark Schwarzer mentioned on Radio 5 Live that "the Leicester dressing room is silent because all the players are constantly on their phones, looking on Twitter or listening to music" it somewhat dispelled this myth and made you realise it's just an unfortunate (dependant upon your viewpoint) trait of modern society and has nothing at all to do with team spirit or togetherness. It's just different than it used to be.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 9:39:28 GMT
Hopefully this will make the english FA morons reconsider on their intentions to desecrate The Football League in their false belief that the league structure in this country is the cause of almost half a century of underachievement by the national team. Wales have shown that, with a clear plan, some good quality (+ a world class player, which we've had no shortage of over the years) and crucially, hearts bigger than stars and enough pride and courage to fill the oceans several times over, dreams can become reality. I sincerely hope the Welsh dream continues against Portugal. They put our team and FA to shame and I couldn't be happier for them. Wales are The Pride of Britain right now. If we are prepared to do some soul-searching and look inwards, and be brave enough to face up to the pain of the truth, we can learn a hell of a lot from them. Sadly I'm not sure that will happen. HERE HERE !
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 10:03:01 GMT
Wilshere was not worth the gamble and I said that at the time not with hindsight. Henderson is just shit as well as not even being fit. I fail to see how an in form and confident Drinkwater and Townsend wouldn't have been better options as well as sending the right message to the squad...... Wilshere is our best central midfielder for me and I think one gamble like that is ok. They should have gone but for Barkley and one of the strikers. We didn't need all of them. Based on what? Certainly not the last 2 years and therein lies our problem
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 2, 2016 10:13:26 GMT
Wilshere is our best central midfielder for me and I think one gamble like that is ok. They should have gone but for Barkley and one of the strikers. We didn't need all of them. Based on what? Certainly not the last 2 years and therein lies our problem He had a spell 18 months ago now where he was excellent. And the alternative is Henderson so he wins hands down.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 2, 2016 10:19:19 GMT
I've always been on the fence about all this winter break stuff.
But it'll be interesting to see how all these 'experts' like Henry Winter try to spin the Wales thing, with most of their players playing 50-odd games in the Championship.
There's a whole industry grown up around bad-mouthing the Academies and lack of winter break for whom this whole new story is a bit unfortunate to say the least!
They're having to come up with different theories on the hoof with today's media agenda being what it is, with what is effectively an England B team (and Bale) in the semis
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Post by werrington on Jul 2, 2016 10:30:25 GMT
Based on what? Certainly not the last 2 years and therein lies our problem He had a spell 18 months ago now where he was excellent. And the alternative is Henderson so he wins hands down. He's quite possibly the most overated footballer of the modern generation Bayern When Guardiola was asked about him as a potential threat to Munich he said not really as there's about 70 Jack Wilshires in Spain He flatters to deceive and if he was to sign for a Swansea tomorrow he'd be instantly bombed out of the squad ...he's offered nothing in his appearances both forward and defensive and trying ridiculous intricate balls over the top whilst only 20 yards from goal himself The whole thing is rotten
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 10:31:17 GMT
Based on what? Certainly not the last 2 years and therein lies our problem He had a spell 18 months ago now where he was excellent. And the alternative is Henderson so he wins hands down. The other alternative was neither which is what ended up happening anyway, complete waste of squad places. Once we stop picking on reputation and start picking on form and other attributes that go to building a TEAM we might just do something
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 2, 2016 10:48:03 GMT
He had a spell 18 months ago now where he was excellent. And the alternative is Henderson so he wins hands down. He's quite possibly the most overated footballer of the modern generation Bayern When Guardiola was asked about him as a potential threat to Munich he said not really as there's about 70 Jack Wilshires in Spain He flatters to deceive and if he was to sign for a Swansea tomorrow he'd be instantly bombed out of the squad ...he's offered nothing in his appearances both forward and defensive and trying ridiculous intricate balls over the top whilst only 20 yards from goal himself The whole thing is rotten I disagree. I think he's a cut above anything we have when fit and that's the obvious issue. His movement is excellent and he moves the ball at a good pace. He's no holding player though and should be used alongside Dier. There's no one better when fit.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 2, 2016 10:50:29 GMT
He had a spell 18 months ago now where he was excellent. And the alternative is Henderson so he wins hands down. The other alternative was neither which is what ended up happening anyway, complete waste of squad places. Once we stop picking on reputation and start picking on form and other attributes that go to building.TEAM we might just do something But you'll always have players picked on reputation. And to some extent that's only fair. But in the same vein form players should come in for the likes of Henderson/Milner etc ie the ones who should be transient members of the squad.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 2, 2016 10:53:24 GMT
He had a spell 18 months ago now where he was excellent. And the alternative is Henderson so he wins hands down. He's quite possibly the most overated footballer of the modern generation Bayern When Guardiola was asked about him as a potential threat to Munich he said not really as there's about 70 Jack Wilshires in Spain He flatters to deceive and if he was to sign for a Swansea tomorrow he'd be instantly bombed out of the squad ...he's offered nothing in his appearances both forward and defensive and trying ridiculous intricate balls over the top whilst only 20 yards from goal himself The whole thing is rotten I remember that Pep quote. If you consider the implications of the quote you see much deeper issues. But people aren't interested so this every two years repeat to fade.
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Post by werrington on Jul 2, 2016 10:53:32 GMT
He's quite possibly the most overated footballer of the modern generation Bayern When Guardiola was asked about him as a potential threat to Munich he said not really as there's about 70 Jack Wilshires in Spain He flatters to deceive and if he was to sign for a Swansea tomorrow he'd be instantly bombed out of the squad ...he's offered nothing in his appearances both forward and defensive and trying ridiculous intricate balls over the top whilst only 20 yards from goal himself The whole thing is rotten I disagree. I think he's a cut above anything we have when fit and that's the obvious issue. His movement is excellent and he moves the ball at a good pace. He's no holding player though and should be used alongside Dier. There's no one better when fit. He offers no more than Henderson and hasn't in all of his England career despite chance after chance after fucking chance
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 2, 2016 10:55:48 GMT
I disagree. I think he's a cut above anything we have when fit and that's the obvious issue. His movement is excellent and he moves the ball at a good pace. He's no holding player though and should be used alongside Dier. There's no one better when fit. He offers no more than Henderson and hasn't in all of his England career despite chance after chance after fucking chance He really has. The last spell he had in the side he was excellent. Henderson has never played well in an England shirt and is essentially the Premier Leagues answer to Darel Russell. He was shit too.
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Post by werrington on Jul 2, 2016 10:57:40 GMT
He offers no more than Henderson and hasn't in all of his England career despite chance after chance after fucking chance He really has. The last spell he had in the side he was excellent. Henderson has never played well in an England shirt and is essentially the Premier Leagues answer to Darel Russell. He was shit too. You mean that one game away in Slovenia ....yep Slovenia
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 2, 2016 11:00:34 GMT
He really has. The last spell he had in the side he was excellent. Henderson has never played well in an England shirt and is essentially the Premier Leagues answer to Darel Russell. He was shit too. You mean that one game away in Slovenia ....yep Slovenia I don't know which game tbh but there was a run of internationals he played in and did really well. I like the way he plays too, he's a clever footballer but he does need to add more goals and assists.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 2, 2016 11:04:43 GMT
You mean that one game away in Slovenia ....yep Slovenia I don't know which game tbh but there was a run of internationals he played in and did really well. I like the way he plays too, he's a clever footballer but he does need to add more goals and assists. Wilshere is the epitome of the flaws of the English footballer. There is a lot of talent there but he's never grown as a player because it isn't encouraged in England. He doesn't consider new dimensions to his game because it just isn't what they do in England. Pep got it absolutely right. In England a player controls a ball and passes it and he gets lauded like Zidane.
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Post by senojbor on Jul 2, 2016 11:09:16 GMT
Apart from the later stages of last season when he was clearly effected by his back injury Ryan Shawcross has been England's best centre half for years. Hodgson really had to consider him at one stage and played him as a sub against Sweden in 2012. Sweden were ripping England apart when he come on for the last 15 minutes. He had hardly time to settle when Ibrahimovic went passed him and scored. He was never considered again. Cahill played the whole of that game and played every game when we finished bottom of the group in Brazil. Cahill played in all the Euro games and was even captain in one. What a nonsense.
Raheem Stirling also played in that Sweden game and has always been one of Hodgson's 'big club' players and despite only scoring 2 England goals in four years (both at Wembley) against low ranking teams still somehow managed to be regularly selected. Even to the casual observer Sterling has been consistently poor both for his club and country. Played in all three games in the last World cup too. Hodgson didn't learn did he. What a nonsense
Kane and Vardy. Between them they scored 49 goals in the premier league last season and should have played as a striking partnership. The team should have been built around them two but no. He found a way of leaving Vardy out to accommodate his 'big club' players. Sturridge despite his goal against Wales was poor. Even Rashford for the little game time he played looked far better at beating players out wide than Sterling. What a nonesense.
Joe Hart has been poor for some time both for his club and country. Peligrini even dropped him at one stage, but has been ever present for England. His mistake against Iceland cost us the game. Had Butland not been injured I doubt he'd have got a game because of Hodgson's 'big club' mentality but nevertheless Forster should have replaced him after his mistake against Wales. What a nonsense.
To sum it up Hodgson had always been a manager who disregarded decent players for 'big club' players of lesser ability. His decision not to take Drinkwater who was one of the PL's most consistent players last season to make way for Milner highlights the worst manager England have ever had.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 2, 2016 11:09:32 GMT
I don't know which game tbh but there was a run of internationals he played in and did really well. I like the way he plays too, he's a clever footballer but he does need to add more goals and assists. Wilshere is the epitome of the flaws of the English footballer. There is a lot of talent there but he's never grown as a player because it isn't encouraged in England. He doesn't consider new dimensions to his game because it just isn't what they do in England. Pep got it absolutely right. In England a player controls a ball and passes it and he gets lauded like Zidane. I'd suggest he hasn't grown for the simple fact he's never had the real run of games to do so. It's hard to improve when you miss that much football. And yes people do go ott about him but he is the best midfielder we have. The alternatives for his position are Henderson, Milner, Delph and ?????? He's better than them.
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 2, 2016 11:13:58 GMT
Apart from the later stages of last season when he was clearly effected by his back injury Ryan Shawcross has been England's best centre half for years. Hodgson really had to consider him at one stage and played him as a sub against Sweden in 2012. Sweden were ripping England apart when he come on for the last 15 minutes. He had hardly time to settle when Ibrahimovic went passed him and scored. He was never considered again. Cahill played the whole of that game and played every game when we finished bottom of the group in Brazil. Cahill played in all the Euro games and was even captain in one. What a nonsense. Raheem Stirling also played in that Sweden game and has always been one of Hodgson's 'big club' players and despite only scoring 2 England goals in four years (both at Wembley) against low ranking teams still somehow managed to be regularly selected. Even to the casual observer Sterling has been consistently poor both for his club and country. Played in all three games in the last World cup too. Hodgson didn't learn did he. What a nonsense Kane and Vardy. Between them they scored 49 goals in the premier league last season and should have played as a striking partnership. The team should have been built around them two but no. He found a way of leaving Vardy out to accommodate his 'big club' players. Sturridge despite his goal against Wales was poor. Even Rashford for the little game time he played looked far better at beating players out wide than Sterling. What a nonesense. Joe Hart has been poor for some time both for his club and country. Peligrini even dropped him at one stage, but has been ever present for England. His mistake against Iceland cost us the game. Had Butland not been injured I doubt he'd have got a game because of Hodgson's 'big club' mentality but nevertheless Forster should have replaced him after his mistake against Wales. What a nonsense. To sum it up Hodgson had always been a manager who disregarded decent players for 'big club' players of lesser ability. His decision not to take Drinkwater who was one of the PL's most consistent players last season to make way for Milner highlights the worst manager England have ever had. Vardy was utter dog shit throughout the tournament. Did he touch the ball other than his goal? I agree about Drinkwater but if you think he could of made a difference against Iceland then you're mistaken. the whole team bottled it, he would of been no different.
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Post by werrington on Jul 2, 2016 11:14:38 GMT
Apart from the later stages of last season when he was clearly effected by his back injury Ryan Shawcross has been England's best centre half for years. Hodgson really had to consider him at one stage and played him as a sub against Sweden in 2012. Sweden were ripping England apart when he come on for the last 15 minutes. He had hardly time to settle when Ibrahimovic went passed him and scored. He was never considered again. Cahill played the whole of that game and played every game when we finished bottom of the group in Brazil. Cahill played in all the Euro games and was even captain in one. What a nonsense. Raheem Stirling also played in that Sweden game and has always been one of Hodgson's 'big club' players and despite only scoring 2 England goals in four years (both at Wembley) against low ranking teams still somehow managed to be regularly selected. Even to the casual observer Sterling has been consistently poor both for his club and country. Played in all three games in the last World cup too. Hodgson didn't learn did he. What a nonsense Kane and Vardy. Between them they scored 49 goals in the premier league last season and should have played as a striking partnership. The team should have been built around them two but no. He found a way of leaving Vardy out to accommodate his 'big club' players. Sturridge despite his goal against Wales was poor. Even Rashford for the little game time he played looked far better at beating players out wide than Sterling. What a nonesense. Joe Hart has been poor for some time both for his club and country. Peligrini even dropped him at one stage, but has been ever present for England. His mistake against Iceland cost us the game. Had Butland not been injured I doubt he'd have got a game because of Hodgson's 'big club' mentality but nevertheless Forster should have replaced him after his mistake against Wales. What a nonsense. To sum it up Hodgson had always been a manager who disregarded decent players for 'big club' players of lesser ability. His decision not to take Drinkwater who was one of the PL's most consistent players last season to make way for Milner highlights the worst manager England have ever had. It's always annoyed me that shawcross was derided that he messed up against a world class player on the top stage so he had his chance but other centre halves can get torn to shreds by dentists and 37 year old Slovenians playing in Saudi Arabia and they get chance after chance Anyway we digress
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 2, 2016 11:25:04 GMT
A winter break would make no difference because they would just have to rush all the fixtures in after. What England need is a coach who picks on form not by what club they play for. They wouldn't have a break.....they'd be whizzed off to Asia to play lucrative club friendlies under the guise of keeping fit in the sunshine That is my biggest reason I am against it. It could be a positive but the clubs are too greedy to help it work and players too thick to make a stand
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 11:27:22 GMT
It's got nothing to do with a winter break or the academy systems, it's about having a good manager who players respect, being able to play as a team. Yes they are clearly built around Bale but Bale puts in his share of work. You could argue that no England player does that. England I'm afraid to say just can't play as a team. Germany always does well because they play as a well drilled team.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 2, 2016 11:39:19 GMT
It's got nothing to do with a winter break or the academy systems, it's about having a good manager who players respect, being able to play as a team. Yes they are clearly built around Bale but Bale puts in his share of work. You could argue that no England player does that. England I'm afraid to say just can't play as a team. Germany always does well because they play as a well drilled team. It isn't just about who the manager is. That's a smokescreen sometimes to bigger issues.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jul 2, 2016 11:49:44 GMT
Hodgson relied on players who flattered to deceive against very mediocre teams in the qualifiers. I and others on here consistently said that England would falter at the euros because of this but Woy doesn't read the oatcake does he? But then statistics that tell us that England have only won 6 games in knock out stages in major competitions since 1966 says it all. And particularly since the PL formation England, with the exception of a handful of players, have not had any stand out individuals and certainly not in the current squad.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jul 2, 2016 16:50:13 GMT
The England football team is like a 2nd. hand car. This car may have had some new parts added, but it is still the old parts in the car that need replacing. To get this car running smoothly, it needs a mechanic who knows about cars and replacing any parts that do not perform their task properly. Hopefully all the above will get the car running smoothly, getting it from A to B without any problems, and get it up steep hills so the passengers can look out and see how great it is,to look down on everyone else. It would be nice to have a high powered new car, but we don't have the means, so we have to get the best out of what we have.
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