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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jun 29, 2016 14:51:33 GMT
as much as i love England (always have, always will. this shambles of a tournament won't stop that in the same way that years in the doldrums with Stoke didn't put me off either), it's going to be fucking hard to get behind them if that absolute fucking twat becomes manager!!!
don't think he'll take it anyway though, absolutely no way of winning anything with our team (and when i say "Winning" i'm using Wenger's own distinct language where it means "Coming between 2nd and 4th" obviously).
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Post by jimmygscfc on Jun 29, 2016 14:56:56 GMT
Look at italy though jo with Chiellini and DeRossi. Grizzled vets. We need to stick with Dier and Alli, and blood Stones and keep giving them tournaments. With a good manager we will become a good team. I would go with allardyce. We need to go our own way. Keep possession but the English way in the modern game is the 4 4 2 diamond with a big unit and a fast forward up top. Rashord or Vardy for me with kane. We need to focus on defence. Anyway its over now and we won't be tested for 2 years. Qualifying will be too easy I'm not sure about Vardy's future up top with England unless we make a massive tactical change and he's banging on the door of 30; speed will be the first thing to go. Rashford is still a youngster and we can't pin too many hopes on him. It's unfair to the player as much as anything. I'd stick with Kane because he can't become a bad player overnight and if we took the Euros as any indication, nobody other than Dier would play again. Stones has to come in for Cahill and given his head and we trust it works. Shaw should come in at left back as soon as he regains fitness and I'd hope a few others can force their way into the reckoning. Who from the Under 21s is worthy of a look?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 29, 2016 14:56:58 GMT
He can utilise those talents Jezza - that's why he's more progressive than Tone, he can find a role for that type of player. Djorkaeff I don't think played in the engine room though, and let's not pretend that Bolton side was total football? For every Okocha there was a Tal Ben Haim, Kevin Nolan and Kevin Davies. Of course, the best teams are a blend of talents - Fergie always found a place for a Robson, Keane, Bruce, Pallister, Stam, Vidic etc. Hodgson's XI this past week looked less like a team than any England team I can remember. If the new man could blend the talent we have into something resembling a team, that would be a good place to start. I don't need to tell you that the best eleven players do not necessarily make the best team. Every team needs a Jack Charlton, a Nobby Stiles, to go with their Bobbies - as the Aussies would say, "a bit of mongrel"! Absolutely, but in midfield they should be able to play a bit too, like Dier. He'll happily kick anything that moves. At the back we badly needed a bit of thuggery and his mistake was not even looking at someone like Dann. But overall we need to work on developing a style of play that's smarter. Kick and rush isn't going to cut it.
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Post by onionman on Jun 29, 2016 14:58:12 GMT
21000 votes on the Telegraph website: Must say I'd have a bit of difficulty supporting England if they somehow convinced Wenger to get the hell out of the Emirates. Wenger 24% Allardyce 17% Pardew 11% Klinsmann 11% Howe 10% Benitez 8% Southgate 7% Moyes 6% Neville 4% Dyche 2% Those figures are just a snapshot in time. This time next year, Dyche will be the new Howe and Bruce will be the new Pardew. A resurgent Coyle will be the new Dyche, and Howe will be the new Bothroyd. Jenas will be the new Neville, with Neville taking over as the new Jenas. That is Eddie Howe, by the way, not Don?
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Post by onionman on Jun 29, 2016 15:01:26 GMT
as much as i love England (always have, always will. this shambles of a tournament won't stop that in the same way that years in the doldrums with Stoke didn't put me off either), it's going to be fucking hard to get behind them if that absolute fucking twat becomes manager!!! don't think he'll take it anyway though, absolutely no way of winning anything with our team (and when i say "Winning" i'm using Wenger's own distinct language where it means "Coming between 2nd and 4th" obviously). I look forward to digging out literally hundreds of your posts, written from your high horse, condemning Stoke fans for saying they found it difficult to get behind England's players over the past few years.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jun 29, 2016 15:06:13 GMT
as much as i love England (always have, always will. this shambles of a tournament won't stop that in the same way that years in the doldrums with Stoke didn't put me off either), it's going to be fucking hard to get behind them if that absolute fucking twat becomes manager!!! don't think he'll take it anyway though, absolutely no way of winning anything with our team (and when i say "Winning" i'm using Wenger's own distinct language where it means "Coming between 2nd and 4th" obviously). I look forward to digging out literally hundreds of your posts, written from your high horse, condemning Stoke fans for saying they found it difficult to get behind England's players over the past few years. don't think i have slagged off anyone for finding it difficult. think you'll find those i slagged off are the ones saying they refuse to support england while Hodgson is there, saying english players are utter shite simply because of the team they play for etc. BIG difference between refusing to support and finding something hard to support mate, they're very literally 2 entirely different things if you can find any feel free, if not then wind your neck in eh?
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Post by onionman on Jun 29, 2016 15:16:09 GMT
I look forward to digging out literally hundreds of your posts, written from your high horse, condemning Stoke fans for saying they found it difficult to get behind England's players over the past few years. don't think i have slagged off anyone for finding it difficult. think you'll find those i slagged off are the ones saying they refuse to support england while Hodgson is there, saying english players are utter shite simply because of the team they play for etc. BIG difference between refusing to support and finding something hard to support mate You slagged me off when I said I'd find it easier to get behind England after a couple of the golden generation were dropped from the last World Cup. You were quite angry, I recall, telling me that I hated the England players simply because I thought that made me more of a Stoke fan. I have a long memory, Mick.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jun 29, 2016 15:18:38 GMT
don't think i have slagged off anyone for finding it difficult. think you'll find those i slagged off are the ones saying they refuse to support england while Hodgson is there, saying english players are utter shite simply because of the team they play for etc. BIG difference between refusing to support and finding something hard to support mate You slagged me off when I said I'd find it easier to get behind England after a couple of the golden generation were dropped from the last World Cup. You were quite angry, I recall, telling me that I hated the England players simply because I thought that made me more of a Stoke fan. I have a long memory, Mick. i'll be 100% honest mate, i have no recollection of that but if i did (and i won't make you go through countless posts from months ago to prove it, i'll happily take your word for it) then i would imagine i was probably carried away with the usual mob who say they'll refuse to support england for x,y or z and took it out on you (unfairly it would appear). if that's the case then i genuinely apologise, regardless of how overdue that may be.
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Post by onionman on Jun 29, 2016 15:22:09 GMT
You slagged me off when I said I'd find it easier to get behind England after a couple of the golden generation were dropped from the last World Cup. You were quite angry, I recall, telling me that I hated the England players simply because I thought that made me more of a Stoke fan. I have a long memory, Mick. i'll be 100% honest mate, i have no recollection of that but if i did (and i won't make you go through countless posts from months ago to prove it, i'll happily take your word for it) then i would imagine i was probably carried away with the usual mob who say they'll refuse to support england for x,y or z and took it out on you (unfairly it would appear). if that's the case then i genuinely apologise, regardless of how overdue that may be. Fair play mate.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jun 29, 2016 15:45:41 GMT
Of course, the best teams are a blend of talents - Fergie always found a place for a Robson, Keane, Bruce, Pallister, Stam, Vidic etc. Hodgson's XI this past week looked less like a team than any England team I can remember. If the new man could blend the talent we have into something resembling a team, that would be a good place to start. I don't need to tell you that the best eleven players do not necessarily make the best team. Every team needs a Jack Charlton, a Nobby Stiles, to go with their Bobbies - as the Aussies would say, "a bit of mongrel"! Absolutely, but in midfield they should be able to play a bit too, like Dier. He'll happily kick anything that moves. At the back we badly needed a bit of thuggery and his mistake was not even looking at someone like Dann. But overall we need to work on developing a style of play that's smarter. Kick and rush isn't going to cut it. See, we can agree on some things! Although you won't find me anywhere saying I am an advocate of kick and rush, just that we cannot get very far being rather pale imitations of tiki-taka either. I'm not going to invoke the much over-used concepts of passion and pride, nor of a footballing "DNA", but we need to work out what elements of the English club game can be successfully transferred into the international game. Let's do what we are good at, not badly ape other nations.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jun 29, 2016 16:57:22 GMT
Just a thought - the England rugby and cricket teams are playing well under Aussie coaches, so we can choose from Harry Kewell, Mark Viduka, Dame Edna Everage and Skippy the Bush Kangaroo. I am leaning towards Skippy!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 17:32:21 GMT
English football is at a danger, in my opinion, of appointing another yes man coach that may or may not work given the state of the current squad. If the new man comes in and the squad don't pick themselves up after this harrowing performance and defeat then he could be facing an uphill struggle from the off. The press would be on his back and the world cup would be in danger. Yes, i'm talking about the inevitable appointment of Southgate.
There's no silver bullet whichever approach you take but my personal feelings on this would be an Allardyce type coach who will add a bit of stability with a sensible, no frills, results driven approach to take us to the next world cup. Just tide us over while we take stock and have a serious think about where we go from here, because for all intents and purposes, our appointments that had good intentions like Hodgson and Capello, have just pretty much wasted 8 years of everyone's time and money with no end result.
We've just been beaten by a percentage game, reached the same stage as Northern Ireland and Hungary with a percentage game and Wales have gone further than us with a percentage game. I don't see the problem in us adopting one.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 29, 2016 17:42:08 GMT
English football is at a danger, in my opinion, of appointing another yes man coach that may or may not work given the state of the current squad. If the new man comes in and the squad don't pick themselves up after this harrowing performance and defeat then he could be facing an uphill struggle from the off. The press would be on his back and the world cup would be in danger. Yes, i'm talking about the inevitable appointment of Southgate. There's no silver bullet whichever approach you take but my personal feelings on this would be an Allardyce type coach who will add a bit of stability with a sensible, no frills, results driven approach to take us to the next world cup. Just tide us over while we take stock and have a serious think about where we go from here, because for all intents and purposes, our appointments that had good intentions like Hodgson and Capello, have just pretty much wasted 8 years of everyone's time and money with no end result. We've just been beaten by a percentage game, reached the same stage as Northern Ireland and Hungary with a percentage game and Wales have gone further than us with a percentage game. I don't see the problem in us adopting one. Yeah - if we're as limited as the critics paint us, maybe that's the way to go anyway. Didn't do Leicester any harm, did it? Plus I think Big Sam would really revel in the role. He's got the personality to embrace it, not shrink with it.
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 29, 2016 17:43:17 GMT
English football is at a danger, in my opinion, of appointing another yes man coach that may or may not work given the state of the current squad. If the new man comes in and the squad don't pick themselves up after this harrowing performance and defeat then he could be facing an uphill struggle from the off. The press would be on his back and the world cup would be in danger. Yes, i'm talking about the inevitable appointment of Southgate. There's no silver bullet whichever approach you take but my personal feelings on this would be an Allardyce type coach who will add a bit of stability with a sensible, no frills, results driven approach to take us to the next world cup. Just tide us over while we take stock and have a serious think about where we go from here, because for all intents and purposes, our appointments that had good intentions like Hodgson and Capello, have just pretty much wasted 8 years of everyone's time and money with no end result. We've just been beaten by a percentage game, reached the same stage as Northern Ireland and Hungary with a percentage game and Wales have gone further than us with a percentage game. I don't see the problem in us adopting one. Allardyce would qualify us with ease then stink the place out in the tournament proper.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jun 29, 2016 17:54:09 GMT
English football is at a danger, in my opinion, of appointing another yes man coach that may or may not work given the state of the current squad. If the new man comes in and the squad don't pick themselves up after this harrowing performance and defeat then he could be facing an uphill struggle from the off. The press would be on his back and the world cup would be in danger. Yes, i'm talking about the inevitable appointment of Southgate. There's no silver bullet whichever approach you take but my personal feelings on this would be an Allardyce type coach who will add a bit of stability with a sensible, no frills, results driven approach to take us to the next world cup. Just tide us over while we take stock and have a serious think about where we go from here, because for all intents and purposes, our appointments that had good intentions like Hodgson and Capello, have just pretty much wasted 8 years of everyone's time and money with no end result. We've just been beaten by a percentage game, reached the same stage as Northern Ireland and Hungary with a percentage game and Wales have gone further than us with a percentage game. I don't see the problem in us adopting one. Allardyce would qualify us with ease then stink the place out in the tournament proper. So same as usual then.......
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Post by CalgaryPotter on Jun 29, 2016 18:45:17 GMT
English football is at a danger, in my opinion, of appointing another yes man coach that may or may not work given the state of the current squad. If the new man comes in and the squad don't pick themselves up after this harrowing performance and defeat then he could be facing an uphill struggle from the off. The press would be on his back and the world cup would be in danger. Yes, i'm talking about the inevitable appointment of Southgate. There's no silver bullet whichever approach you take but my personal feelings on this would be an Allardyce type coach who will add a bit of stability with a sensible, no frills, results driven approach to take us to the next world cup. Just tide us over while we take stock and have a serious think about where we go from here, because for all intents and purposes, our appointments that had good intentions like Hodgson and Capello, have just pretty much wasted 8 years of everyone's time and money with no end result. We've just been beaten by a percentage game, reached the same stage as Northern Ireland and Hungary with a percentage game and Wales have gone further than us with a percentage game. I don't see the problem in us adopting one. Allardyce would qualify us with ease then stink the place out in the tournament proper. The same Allardyce that took Bolton into Europe with the likes of JJ Okocha and was one of the first to start using all the diet/sports med bollocks that everyone now uses?
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 29, 2016 18:55:46 GMT
Southgate seemingly rules himself out...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 19:01:06 GMT
Southgate seemingly rules himself out...
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Post by thicknthin on Jun 29, 2016 19:10:07 GMT
Slaven Bilic for me would be the best option Proven international Proven international coach Played in the premier league Managed in th premier league so knows players, and wouldn't take a year to learn our language and game, plus it would fuck wet sham up
Winner winner
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Post by AlliG on Jun 29, 2016 19:18:07 GMT
I have talked to someone about his time at Wolves. Apparently his team and tactics talks were supposed to be a bit like a verbal version of a Benji posting. Now that might say more about the intellect of Wolves players but it does tie in with his punditry during this tournament. Who is this someone?.....your milkman? That would be telling. If I was Ianrb it might have been my barber, but as I last made use of one of those in 1992 it is unlikely. I worked for many years in Wolverhampton and had a few liquid lunches with an ex-director at the Molineux where the subject may (or may not) have come up.
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Post by jonnynico on Jun 29, 2016 19:33:19 GMT
wouldn't mind klinsmann.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jun 29, 2016 19:42:39 GMT
No one would enjoy playing England if Allardyce was manager. When we need to have possession we could do that but he'd also make us direct. Get back to basics and play direct.
We have been trying to be something we aren't. We should embrace our way of playing and just modify it a bit.
Allardyce all the way for me. He'd put tough men in the team
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Post by pavel on Jun 29, 2016 20:47:49 GMT
No one would enjoy playing England if Allardyce was manager. When we need to have possession we could do that but he'd also make us direct. Get back to basics and play direct. We have been trying to be something we aren't. We should embrace our way of playing and just modify it a bit. Allardyce all the way for me. He'd put tough men in the team Yeah just like Graham Taylor, that worked didn't it
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Post by crapslinger on Jun 29, 2016 20:52:32 GMT
Just a thought - the England rugby and cricket teams are playing well under Aussie coaches, so we can choose from Harry Kewell, Mark Viduka, Dame Edna Everage and Skippy the Bush Kangaroo. I am leaning towards Skippy! I'd play Skippy in goal he's more agile than Hart.
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Post by crapslinger on Jun 29, 2016 20:57:51 GMT
English football is at a danger, in my opinion, of appointing another yes man coach that may or may not work given the state of the current squad. If the new man comes in and the squad don't pick themselves up after this harrowing performance and defeat then he could be facing an uphill struggle from the off. The press would be on his back and the world cup would be in danger. Yes, i'm talking about the inevitable appointment of Southgate. There's no silver bullet whichever approach you take but my personal feelings on this would be an Allardyce type coach who will add a bit of stability with a sensible, no frills, results driven approach to take us to the next world cup. Just tide us over while we take stock and have a serious think about where we go from here, because for all intents and purposes, our appointments that had good intentions like Hodgson and Capello, have just pretty much wasted 8 years of everyone's time and money with no end result. We've just been beaten by a percentage game, reached the same stage as Northern Ireland and Hungary with a percentage game and Wales have gone further than us with a percentage game. I don't see the problem in us adopting one. Yeah - if we're as limited as the critics paint us, maybe that's the way to go anyway. Didn't do Leicester any harm, did it? Plus I think Big Sam would really revel in the role. He's got the personality to embrace it, not shrink with it. Football is simple first decide on the system you want to play, second pick the players that best fit your system, keep the same players when fit and continue with your system, have decent back up players who are able to fit into your system, stop fucking about changing systems footballers generally are not clever enough to adapt.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 29, 2016 21:00:08 GMT
No one would enjoy playing England if Allardyce was manager. When we need to have possession we could do that but he'd also make us direct. Get back to basics and play direct. We have been trying to be something we aren't. We should embrace our way of playing and just modify it a bit. Allardyce all the way for me. He'd put tough men in the team OddsAgree with that. And looking at the odds, hard to see how they can look past him. Southgate's ruled himself out, Hoddle's probably still persona non grata, Klinsmann is viewed incredibly negatively by the entire US soccer press who'd drive him to the airport. And I just don't see any foreigner wanting it. Take away the emotional pull and the attachment to the job that the likes of old schoolers like Pardew and Allardyce would still have towards it, and it's really not an attractive job if you're in work at a Premier League club. Choices like Pochettino and Bilic would be popular, but I just can't see it. I could actually just about see Wenger taking it NEXT year, but no way will he walk out on Arsenal as he'll want to leave them on a high and not be perceived as a failure who struggled for his last decade in charge. It's whether the PR-obsessed crowd at the FA will have the guts to go for an unglamorous choice like Sam. After each failure, they normally go for something shiny and different in the next one.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 29, 2016 21:09:16 GMT
If it has to bd an all English camp I would say Hoddle on a 2 year contract with a strong eye on succession. Not ideal but he doesnt have some of the problems the other have. Although does he want it back?
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 29, 2016 21:15:28 GMT
If it has to bd an all English camp I would say Hoddle on a 2 year contract with a strong eye on succession. Not ideal but he doesnt have some of the problems the other have. Although does he want it back? I like him - but surely he's been out of the game too long. Last job was at Wolves from where he was sacked over a decade ago after getting Wolves half way up the Championship. His post-England career was a bit crap really, wasn't it? And that highlight of the last 16 in '98 was 18 years ago (with Shearer, Owen, Beckham, Scholes, etc)
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 29, 2016 21:20:05 GMT
If it has to bd an all English camp I would say Hoddle on a 2 year contract with a strong eye on succession. Not ideal but he doesnt have some of the problems the other have. Although does he want it back? I like him - but surely he's been out of the game too long. Last job was at Wolves from where he was sacked over a decade ago after getting Wolves half way up the Championship. His post-England career was a bit crap really, wasn't it? And that highlight of the last 16 in '98 was 18 years ago (with Shearer, Owen, Beckham, Scholes, etc) I know it isn't ideal. Although being out of the game a while might not be tjat much of a hindrance. Ok another old geezer. Venables? Remember I'm thinking 2 years to stabilise. Also he might do well with some of the current players.
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 29, 2016 21:34:11 GMT
Allardyce would qualify us with ease then stink the place out in the tournament proper. The same Allardyce that took Bolton into Europe with the likes of JJ Okocha and was one of the first to start using all the diet/sports med bollocks that everyone now uses? Yep, that's him.
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