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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 29, 2016 8:16:09 GMT
The last person it should be is Whinger, with his sniffy superiority and penchance for floaty number 10 types and no end result. We need Sam Allardyce's dour northern 'ard working lad routine to knock a bit of sense into our overpaid delicate flowers. We need someone who will instil pride into playing for our country, not a froggy intellectual! Sam is also quite sharp tactically, in a very pragmatic way, which he is not often given much credit for. He'd take success over pretty passing patterns every day of the week, which right now is what we need. We need the big countries being afraid to play us - anyone who has watched Chile the past 2 Copa Americas will know how difficult they are to play against - teak tough, hard in the tackle, pacey and direct, aggressive and skilful. That should be England. I like you Jezza, but I think pretty much the opposite of this.
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Post by muglump on Jun 29, 2016 8:59:10 GMT
For too long now, the England national team has had a whiff of Arsenal about it, from the sense of entitlement in the players to the very plastic, money grabbing approach taken by the FA. I don't mean to hark back to the past, but in 2008 we had a team of players at Stoke who you felt represented us and our values well. That was a huge part of why the atmosphere was so good that season. At the same time, England seem to be increasingly turning into the sort of shameless, entitled cheats that they lap up in North London. The advent of Wenger would just cement that. If Wenger got it, I think that would kill off my interest in England, and that makes me sad. Still, it hasn't happened yet, so no point getting annoyed right now. This. If they appoint that twat I'll legally change my nationality
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 9:45:41 GMT
There's no way they'll appoint Allardyce. In their minds they've just appointed the pragmatic Englishman to get results, and it's failed miserably.
They'll want someone who will mould together and guide the young squad, and oversee the development of the younger age groups too. Much as I loath Wenger, and think that his strengths in this area are vastly overstated - the development of youth and planning for the future is what he's known for. He was always a shoe-in for first choice.
Hopefully Steve Bould will sort out the corners and Jack Butland will make a save once in a while. It will hardly address the fragile state of mind issue though...
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Post by nutterpotter on Jun 29, 2016 9:46:33 GMT
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Post by mosquito on Jun 29, 2016 9:59:08 GMT
He has done a good job with an average US team.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 29, 2016 9:59:31 GMT
Was shocked to see how unpopular he is with the American soccer crowd. They'd pay his air fare.
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Post by mosquito on Jun 29, 2016 10:09:53 GMT
After Claudio Ranieri's achievements with Leicester, I would have expected his name to be among the contenders.
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Post by muglump on Jun 29, 2016 10:12:08 GMT
After Claudio Ranieri's achievements with Leicester, I would have expected his name to be among the contenders. Why would he want to do it? Id tell them to fuck off if i was him crap thankless job
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Post by rawli on Jun 29, 2016 10:15:41 GMT
After Claudio Ranieri's achievements with Leicester, I would have expected his name to be among the contenders. Why would he want to do it? Id tell them to fuck off if i was him crap thankless job I can think of millions of reasons.
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Post by mosquito on Jun 29, 2016 10:19:28 GMT
After Claudio Ranieri's achievements with Leicester, I would have expected his name to be among the contenders. Why would he want to do it? Id tell them to fuck off if i was him crap thankless job The England job has always been a poisoned chalice, but a very well paid one!
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Post by muglump on Jun 29, 2016 10:51:46 GMT
Why would he want to do it? Id tell them to fuck off if i was him crap thankless job The England job has always been a poisoned chalice, but a very well paid one! True but you would have to be pretty damn mercenary
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Jun 29, 2016 11:36:58 GMT
Jurgen Klinnsman was one of the central heartbeats of the revolution that happened in Germany along with Jogi Low working with him. Jogi continued and reinforced these changes with his own processes and the stock rise in our performances have started to show.... more to do but definitely a good way down the road for Jogi. I think Jurgen would do the same for England. He would rip out and reinvigorate the national team process, including development, coaching methods etc..... but he would need the backing of the FA and buy-in from the clubs..... and presently he would not get that.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 29, 2016 11:45:24 GMT
Jurgen Klinnsman was one of the central heartbeats of the revolution that happened in Germany along with Jogi Low working with him. Jogi continued and reinforced these changes with his own processes and the stock rise in our performances have started to show.... more to do but definitely a good way down the road for Jogi. I think Jurgen would do the same for England. He would rip out and reinvigorate the national team process, including development, coaching methods etc..... but he would need the backing of the FA and buy-in from the clubs..... and presently he would not get that. I always got the impression he was a bit of a blagger who swanned around in LA while Loew did all the work - is that unfair? Not tearing up any trees in the US, don't think he'd handle the stick he'd take here.
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Post by songthrush01 on Jun 29, 2016 12:02:18 GMT
how about van gael perfect for the fa.40/1 right now on 365.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Jun 29, 2016 12:12:00 GMT
Don't get me wrong, i cannot understate the technical work that Low has done, however Klinsmann had the buy-in factor with clubs and DFB (due to his playing reputation) that the DFB wanted to exploit. He was still instrumental in bringing the process into the national system and Low has continued the work to a much higher effect. Jogi will rightly be seen as the genius and pragmatic leader in developing German football but Klinsmann opened the door...
That's how i see it... sorry!
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 29, 2016 12:19:50 GMT
We just lost to Iceland. That's like USA losing to Guatemala. Which they have done recently. With Klinnsman managing them. NO NO NO. When I'm there and talk to people about him they think he's crap and lucky to still be in the job.
He's a good bloke and I like him but that's got nothing do with it.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jun 29, 2016 12:49:09 GMT
The last person it should be is Whinger, with his sniffy superiority and penchance for floaty number 10 types and no end result. We need Sam Allardyce's dour northern 'ard working lad routine to knock a bit of sense into our overpaid delicate flowers. We need someone who will instil pride into playing for our country, not a froggy intellectual! Sam is also quite sharp tactically, in a very pragmatic way, which he is not often given much credit for. He'd take success over pretty passing patterns every day of the week, which right now is what we need. We need the big countries being afraid to play us - anyone who has watched Chile the past 2 Copa Americas will know how difficult they are to play against - teak tough, hard in the tackle, pacey and direct, aggressive and skilful. That should be England. I like you Jezza, but I think pretty much the opposite of this. Rob, we share so many views on all things Stoke, but on England we are diametrically opposed! Strange, isn't it? I think our trying to ape the Germans, Italians and Spanish, but in an inferior way, has been part of our downfall. Look at all that meaningless passing between the centre backs and Dier we did in the Euros, going nowhere. I am not a Charles Hughes route one advocate, but if you look at the best Ferguson teams at Man Utd, they were tough and played with pace, using flying wingers and attacking intent (and mostly British players) - that is what I see as the best style for the England team. Whether we like it or not, the most skilful players in our clubs are mainly foreigners, who are brought up in an environment where technical skills are more highly valued and cherished. Most English players do not have that level of natural ability. We either start from 5 year olds and change the whole football culture - a great idea, but not an easy one to get right and the waiting time would be way too long for today's world of immediate gratification - or we play to our strengths more. That Euro 2016 squad contained lots of young players that many were raving about not too long ago - I fail to believe that the right man could not get them playing in a system that plays to their strengths, with the right tactics and mental approach, to have a good run at the next World Cup.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 29, 2016 13:07:04 GMT
I like you Jezza, but I think pretty much the opposite of this. Rob, we share so many views on all things Stoke, but on England we are diametrically opposed! Strange, isn't it? I think our trying to ape the Germans, Italians and Spanish, but in an inferior way, has been part of our downfall. Look at all that meaningless passing between the centre backs and Dier we did in the Euros, going nowhere. I am not a Charles Hughes route one advocate, but if you look at the best Ferguson teams at Man Utd, they were tough and played with pace, using flying wingers and attacking intent (and mostly British players) - that is what I see as the best style for the England team. Whether we like it or not, the most skilful players in our clubs are mainly foreigners, who are brought up in an environment where technical skills are more highly valued and cherished. Most English players do not have that level of natural ability. We either start from 5 year olds and change the whole football culture - a great idea, but not an easy one to get right and the waiting time would be way too long for today's world of immediate gratification - or we play to our strengths more. That Euro 2016 squad contained lots of young players that many were raving about not too long ago - I fail to believe that the right man could not get them playing in a system that plays to their strengths, with the right tactics and mental approach, to have a good run at the next World Cup. It's funny Jezza, it always seems to me a spectacularly English thing to decide that when we fail the solution is to somehow get even more English. I just don't see a basis for that being the answer, that's never worked either! For me, embracing an Allardyce would be a step backwards into the dark ages. What English football needs, at all levels, is more intelligence, more ideas, not less.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 29, 2016 13:15:59 GMT
There is a case for Sam. Only thing is though the styles his teams play would be easily handled by modern more sophisticated defences. And as teams become more tactically varied and thorough with each passing year I fear they would absorb high paced fire with minimum of fuss.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 29, 2016 13:18:20 GMT
I think talk of Allardyce and dark ages is a bit harsh, Rob.
I don't think he's ever been remotely in the same league as Pulis.
His teams are organised and he's a great man-manager who'd embrace the role. That's a hell of a start when you're talking about a national team manager who just gets the players for 48 hours before a game. He can't fix all the ills of the English game and a national manager can't be expectd to.
Jermain Defoe was gushing about him on 5 Live last night.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 29, 2016 13:24:42 GMT
I think talk of Allardyce and dark ages is a bit harsh, Rob. I don't think he's ever been remotely in the same league as Pulis. His teams are organised and he's a great man-manager who'd embrace the role. That's a hell of a start when you're talking about a national team manager who just gets the players for 48 hours before a game. He can't fix all the ills of the English game and a national manager can't be expectd to. Jermain Defoe was gushing about him on 5 Live last night. He's definitely more progressive than Tone Grapey, absolutely. But at the end of the day it's still 10 men behind the ball, a couple of thugs in midfield and twat it long isn't it? Is that really going to move us forward in international football?
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Post by jezzascfc on Jun 29, 2016 13:42:08 GMT
I think talk of Allardyce and dark ages is a bit harsh, Rob. I don't think he's ever been remotely in the same league as Pulis. His teams are organised and he's a great man-manager who'd embrace the role. That's a hell of a start when you're talking about a national team manager who just gets the players for 48 hours before a game. He can't fix all the ills of the English game and a national manager can't be expectd to. Jermain Defoe was gushing about him on 5 Live last night. He's definitely more progressive than Tone Grapey, absolutely. But at the end of the day it's still 10 men behind the ball, a couple of thugs in midfield and twat it long isn't it? Is that really going to move us forward in international football? Is that really all Sam is about, though? I seem to recall his Bolton team including the likes of Djorkaeff and Okocha in midfield, hardly "a couple of thugs"!
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 29, 2016 14:04:20 GMT
He's definitely more progressive than Tone Grapey, absolutely. But at the end of the day it's still 10 men behind the ball, a couple of thugs in midfield and twat it long isn't it? Is that really going to move us forward in international football? Is that really all Sam is about, though? I seem to recall his Bolton team including the likes of Djorkaeff and Okocha in midfield, hardly "a couple of thugs"! He can utilise those talents Jezza - that's why he's more progressive than Tone, he can find a role for that type of player. Djorkaeff I don't think played in the engine room though, and let's not pretend that Bolton side was total football? For every Okocha there was a Tal Ben Haim, Kevin Nolan and Kevin Davies.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 29, 2016 14:09:15 GMT
Wenger is an interesting suggestion. The thing is though, his biggest achievement is changing the entire DNA of Arsenal football team. That takes intense time working with players for hours on end individually and collectively. At international level you don't get that time with them.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jun 29, 2016 14:18:37 GMT
Is that really all Sam is about, though? I seem to recall his Bolton team including the likes of Djorkaeff and Okocha in midfield, hardly "a couple of thugs"! He can utilise those talents Jezza - that's why he's more progressive than Tone, he can find a role for that type of player. Djorkaeff I don't think played in the engine room though, and let's not pretend that Bolton side was total football? For every Okocha there was a Tal Ben Haim, Kevin Nolan and Kevin Davies. Of course, the best teams are a blend of talents - Fergie always found a place for a Robson, Keane, Bruce, Pallister, Stam, Vidic etc. Hodgson's XI this past week looked less like a team than any England team I can remember. If the new man could blend the talent we have into something resembling a team, that would be a good place to start. I don't need to tell you that the best eleven players do not necessarily make the best team. Every team needs a Jack Charlton, a Nobby Stiles, to go with their Bobbies - as the Aussies would say, "a bit of mongrel"!
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Post by bringmesunshine on Jun 29, 2016 14:27:42 GMT
Under the stewardship of the current FA Charlie Cairoli would probably make a good fist of it (look him up) Nello's mate
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 29, 2016 14:28:21 GMT
He can utilise those talents Jezza - that's why he's more progressive than Tone, he can find a role for that type of player. Djorkaeff I don't think played in the engine room though, and let's not pretend that Bolton side was total football? For every Okocha there was a Tal Ben Haim, Kevin Nolan and Kevin Davies. Of course, the best teams are a blend of talents - Fergie always found a place for a Robson, Keane, Bruce, Pallister, Stam, Vidic etc. Hodgson's XI this past week looked less like a team than any England team I can remember. If the new man could blend the talent we have into something resembling a team, that would be a good place to start. I don't need to tell you that the best eleven players do not necessarily make the best team. Every team needs a Jack Charlton, a Nobby Stiles, to go with their Bobbies - as the Aussies would say, "a bit of mongrel"! Top players can handle themselves physically and not just the recognised aard men. Not the first thing you think of with them but the Brazil 1970 side were hard as nails. Pelly used to grow his fingernails so if he had a tussle he would help his opponent up and sneakily dig his nails into them as he did so.
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Post by bringmesunshine on Jun 29, 2016 14:39:37 GMT
21000 votes on the Telegraph website: Must say I'd have a bit of difficulty supporting England if they somehow convinced Wenger to get the hell out of the Emirates. Wenger 24% Allardyce 17% Pardew 11% Klinsmann 11% Howe 10% Benitez 8% Southgate 7% Moyes 6% Neville 4% Dyche 2% That's all the Arsenal fans who hate him and can't get him out who are desperate to get rid, and who knows they might even get some compo. I won't watch another game if they appoint him.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jun 29, 2016 14:41:00 GMT
Look at italy though jo with Chiellini and DeRossi. Grizzled vets. We need to stick with Dier and Alli, and blood Stones and keep giving them tournaments. With a good manager we will become a good team. I would go with allardyce. We need to go our own way. Keep possession but the English way in the modern game is the 4 4 2 diamond with a big unit and a fast forward up top. Rashord or Vardy for me with kane.
We need to focus on defence. Anyway its over now and we won't be tested for 2 years. Qualifying will be too easy
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Post by jezzascfc on Jun 29, 2016 14:41:34 GMT
Of course, the best teams are a blend of talents - Fergie always found a place for a Robson, Keane, Bruce, Pallister, Stam, Vidic etc. Hodgson's XI this past week looked less like a team than any England team I can remember. If the new man could blend the talent we have into something resembling a team, that would be a good place to start. I don't need to tell you that the best eleven players do not necessarily make the best team. Every team needs a Jack Charlton, a Nobby Stiles, to go with their Bobbies - as the Aussies would say, "a bit of mongrel"! Top players can handle themselves physically and not just the recognised aard men. Not the first thing you think of with them but the Brazil 1970 side were hard as nails. Pelly used to grow his fingernails so if he had a tussle he would help his opponent up and sneakily dig his nails into them as he did so. I made the same point about the very successful current Chile team - pacey, skilful, but with a bit of nastiness, should it be required.
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