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Post by philm87 on Jun 22, 2016 10:44:55 GMT
His FA bosses aren't happy with him - desperate WoyEngland supporters aren't happy with him Half of the squad aren't happy with him I'd love to know any reason why this bloke should be in charge of our national team right now. Yeah I get all that but so what? He is the manager for this tournament, no point whining forever about it now. I would be very disappointed if he is still in charge for the WC but that is for the future. Stop focusing on Woy so much though. The TEAM is actually doing okay so far. Smalling and Cahill actually look fairly solid (never thought I would say that) Walker is on fire Dier is looking good Rooney is playing as well as he has played at a tournament since 2004 Lallana is actually doing quite well We know Alli and Kane have the quality, just fingers crossed their can produce it when it really counts.
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Post by jarhead on Jun 22, 2016 10:48:00 GMT
Spot on Phil tbh
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 22, 2016 10:55:45 GMT
His FA bosses aren't happy with him - desperate WoyEngland supporters aren't happy with him Half of the squad aren't happy with him I'd love to know any reason why this bloke should be in charge of our national team right now. Yeah I get all that but so what? He is the manager for this tournament, no point whining forever about it now. I would be very disappointed if he is still in charge for the WC but that is for the future. Stop focusing on Woy so much though. The TEAM is actually doing okay so far. Smalling and Cahill actually look fairly solid (never thought I would say that) Walker is on fire Dier is looking good Rooney is playing as well as he has played at a tournament since 2004 Lallana is actually doing quite well We know Alli and Kane have the quality, just fingers crossed their can produce it when it really counts. Stop focusing on Woy so much though. The TEAM is actually doing okay so far. Are they - results say otherwiseSmalling and Cahill actually look fairly solid (never thought I would say that) - bollocks.Walker is on fire - defensively he is tossDier is looking good - YEP.Rooney is playing as well as he has played at a tournament since 2004 - YEP
Lallana is actually doing quite well - is he? cannot hit the proverbial barn door.We know Alli and Kane have the quality, just fingers crossed their can produce it when it really counts. - t hat's the plan is it? Fingers crossed hope it goes well?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 22, 2016 10:55:53 GMT
Croatia have loads of star players. They're not a one-man team. We don't have world class players but we have the most promising bunch we've had for nearly a decade. They should be capable of topping that group. That really isn't an unreasonable suggestion. Dominating the game without creating much counts for nothing. It's called sterile possession. We really haven't done enough with the ball when we've had it. No Modric is their star player. He was the matchwinner in their first game and the best player on the pitch until he went off in the second game. I can ask my Croatian supporting friend who watches every game, she will say the same. She also says they want to avoid England, because we are playing well. I agree we have a promising bunch, but they are not the finished articles yet. Two years time will be different. Right now though, compared these players to what we had on paper ten years ago and your argument just does not stack up. We had two world class centre backs, a world class left back, at least two world class midfield players, at least one world class striker. We simply don't have that level of quality now. Alli and co may get to that level in a couple of years, but they are not at that level yet. When I say dominate the game, I am not simply referring to possession stats. We didn't actually have that much possession against Russia. We have been dominant not just in terms of possession, but in terms of territory, in terms of chances created and in terms of shots at goal. That has been true in every game. I agree we haven't quite done enough with the ball, but the main thing we haven't done is convert chances, which has allowed our opponents to persist with negative tactics for the full 90 minutes. That is unlikely to happen indefinitely. Overall though, I agree with a lot of your points, I just don't see how it ends up to the level of negativity we have on here. Perisic, Rakitic, Mandzukic, Corluka, Srna are all excellent players. Let's not pretend Croatia are a one man team. They are one of the best teams in it. I wasn't saying this bunch is better than what we had 10 years ago. I was saying this is the best crop we've had since then. And we're mismanaging them. Our problem has been that we haven't created enough. We've dominated without doing anything. We played well against Russia but he fucked it up. We were really very average in the other games. To take five points from that group is poor.
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Post by metalhead on Jun 22, 2016 10:59:17 GMT
His FA bosses aren't happy with him - desperate WoyEngland supporters aren't happy with him Half of the squad aren't happy with him I'd love to know any reason why this bloke should be in charge of our national team right now. He's great at saying Yes when the FA tell him to do something.... Does that count?
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Post by pavel on Jun 22, 2016 11:14:11 GMT
Why so negative: Because I don't see us moving forward as a footballing nation with Hodgson in charge, all the same flaws are apparent and the outcome so familiar even at group stage. Hodgson record is, I think, one win in 6 games against mostly mediocre opposition. We have some talented youngsters coming through but we don't know how to use them and that is squarely down to Hodgson.
The FA, as ever, played it safe when they appointed him and bottled it when they should have sacked him and we are paying the consequences.
It is Hodgson who has picked an unbalanced squad (I seem to remember the same at the World Cup) and picked players out of form and back from injury on reputation rather than form, it is Hodgson who still doesn't know his best team (with who he's picked), best formation or what "tactics" to employ after so long in charge as shown in the warm up games and the group stage.
There is little shape to the team, little coherence and little understanding but perhaps thats understandable when you have a manager that chops and changes tactics, formations and players rather than having a firm grasp of our strengths and playing to them consistently. We have seem times when Hodgson has got it right and we have looked very good but I feel it is more by chance than design. I'm pleased we are generally passing the ball better and we seem to be embracing more technical players but without the right tactics, leadership and a coherent strategy game in, game out, it comes to very little as shown in our group games.
Hodgson certainly was partly, if not mostly, culpable for the draw with Russia, his substitutions gave the impetus to Russia and allowed them to push forward, when it was time to keep them guessing and wary of our ability to break and attack with pace. The result was almost inevitable. We didn't boss the game, we played well in parts but against possibly the worst Russian team I've ever seen we didn't impose ourselves, unlike Wales.
I felt we were lucky against Wales and Hodgson got out of jail. He picked the wrong side again and it was desperation stuff in terms of substitutions and could have gone spectacularly wrong against a better team. We got a last second win, which was deserved in terms of possession but not in terms of tactics, preparation and strategy. We lacked guile and in the end were extremely lucky to win although we we superior in almost all departments, or at least should have been.
What can we say about the team selection against Slovakia, bizarre at the very least, changing a winning team and making 6 changes (yes it was 6 Roy) when we hadn't won the group yet. A couple of changes I could see the logic in and then hopefully if we were comfortable, in charge and winning bringing a few more fringe players on. It was a wholly high risk and unnecessary approach which has probably left us with a harder path going forward both in terms of the teams we will play and where we will play, it defied all logic no matter what spin you put on it. Yes we had all the possession but it was sterile possession with no cutting edge, the team had little shape or understanding. We should have been building on the win we had just achieved and the confidence that it had given rather than experimenting. No one needed to be rested when the next game would be in 6 days time.
So again why so negative? Well the England set up is needs root and branch change and the FA is mostly responsible, in the end the blame lays at their door for the lack of grass roots facilities in English football that will bring not just a few "international" quality players through but a generation of them which will allow us to compete. But even that will be to no avail if we persist in a supposedly safe pair of hands such as Hodgson, he's out of his depth.
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 22, 2016 11:18:24 GMT
His FA bosses aren't happy with him - desperate WoyEngland supporters aren't happy with him Half of the squad aren't happy with him I'd love to know any reason why this bloke should be in charge of our national team right now. He's great at saying Yes when the FA tell him to do something.... Does that count? It will if they tell him to jump out of a ten storey window. Lol, he was questioned about not knowing his best team of formation - his answer? That's the way I like it!!!!!
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Post by kustokie on Jun 22, 2016 11:18:37 GMT
Why so negative? Because England was "pot 1" team in arguably the weakest group and should have finished with maximum points.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Jun 22, 2016 12:58:04 GMT
I'm optimistic and think we'll look better against teams that aren't just sticking 10 men behind the ball.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2016 13:06:25 GMT
The buck stops with Roy, and by extension the FA.
We're simply not in that 'top tier' of teams i.e. the likes of Germany, Spain, Italy etc. due to the owl-faced one's ineptitude. As Chief says, we're more like to regress, which is incredibly disappointing - but not wholly unexpected.
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Post by philm87 on Jun 22, 2016 15:21:08 GMT
Yeah I get all that but so what? He is the manager for this tournament, no point whining forever about it now. I would be very disappointed if he is still in charge for the WC but that is for the future. Stop focusing on Woy so much though. The TEAM is actually doing okay so far. Smalling and Cahill actually look fairly solid (never thought I would say that) Walker is on fire Dier is looking good Rooney is playing as well as he has played at a tournament since 2004 Lallana is actually doing quite well We know Alli and Kane have the quality, just fingers crossed their can produce it when it really counts. Stop focusing on Woy so much though. The TEAM is actually doing okay so far. Are they - results say otherwiseSmalling and Cahill actually look fairly solid (never thought I would say that) - bollocks.Walker is on fire - defensively he is tossDier is looking good - YEP.Rooney is playing as well as he has played at a tournament since 2004 - YEP
Lallana is actually doing quite well - is he? cannot hit the proverbial barn door.We know Alli and Kane have the quality, just fingers crossed their can produce it when it really counts. - t hat's the plan is it? Fingers crossed hope it goes well?Pugs you have returned to the pre-Sparky version of yourself. Some of what you say makes sense, I would only disagree with the level of emphasis, but your overall position of unceasing pessimism just doesn't make sense unless you have never watched England before. Okay, so Walker is defensively dross. Having watched him in the PL I would agree. But so what? That is not the manager's fault either. He is the best option we have right now and is currently performing well above himself, so why not celebrate that? What we have seen so far has been much better than at any point since 2004.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 22, 2016 15:26:52 GMT
Stop focusing on Woy so much though. The TEAM is actually doing okay so far. Are they - results say otherwiseSmalling and Cahill actually look fairly solid (never thought I would say that) - bollocks.Walker is on fire - defensively he is tossDier is looking good - YEP.Rooney is playing as well as he has played at a tournament since 2004 - YEP
Lallana is actually doing quite well - is he? cannot hit the proverbial barn door.We know Alli and Kane have the quality, just fingers crossed their can produce it when it really counts. - t hat's the plan is it? Fingers crossed hope it goes well?Pugs you have returned to the pre-Sparky version of yourself. Some of what you say makes sense, I would only disagree with the level of emphasis, but your overall position of unceasing pessimism just doesn't make sense unless you have never watched England before. Okay, so Walker is defensively dross. Having watched him in the PL I would agree. But so what? That is not the manager's fault either. He is the best option we have right now and is currently performing well above himself, so why not celebrate that? What we have seen so far has been much better than at any point since 2004. Is it really better than Euro 2012 in the groups? I thought we defended well in that, came back brilliantly against Sweden and weren't really any worse even in being comfortable but pretty poor against Ukraine.
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Post by philm87 on Jun 22, 2016 15:30:58 GMT
No Modric is their star player. He was the matchwinner in their first game and the best player on the pitch until he went off in the second game. I can ask my Croatian supporting friend who watches every game, she will say the same. She also says they want to avoid England, because we are playing well. I agree we have a promising bunch, but they are not the finished articles yet. Two years time will be different. Right now though, compared these players to what we had on paper ten years ago and your argument just does not stack up. We had two world class centre backs, a world class left back, at least two world class midfield players, at least one world class striker. We simply don't have that level of quality now. Alli and co may get to that level in a couple of years, but they are not at that level yet. When I say dominate the game, I am not simply referring to possession stats. We didn't actually have that much possession against Russia. We have been dominant not just in terms of possession, but in terms of territory, in terms of chances created and in terms of shots at goal. That has been true in every game. I agree we haven't quite done enough with the ball, but the main thing we haven't done is convert chances, which has allowed our opponents to persist with negative tactics for the full 90 minutes. That is unlikely to happen indefinitely. Overall though, I agree with a lot of your points, I just don't see how it ends up to the level of negativity we have on here. Perisic, Rakitic, Mandzukic, Corluka, Srna are all excellent players. Let's not pretend Croatia are a one man team. They are one of the best teams in it. I wasn't saying this bunch is better than what we had 10 years ago. I was saying this is the best crop we've had since then. And we're mismanaging them. Our problem has been that we haven't created enough. We've dominated without doing anything. We played well against Russia but he fucked it up. We were really very average in the other games. To take five points from that group is poor. You keep subtly altering what I am saying in order to justify the negativity. I never said, nor did I imply, that Croatia are one man team. I merely pointed out that Modric is their best player and that they beat Spain without him. The point that I was making is that there are betters teams than us - teams like Spain, France, Germany and Belgium - who have so far under performed or failed to beat sides that on paper they should be turning over comfortably. That is not surprising to me, because that is just football for you. Yet when England do this, we have a relentless chorus on doomsaying on here. The current team we have - on paper - is surely worse than the team we had in 2006? That team struggled through the group stages more so than we have done in this tournament and then got knocked out by Portugal in the quarter finals. The 2008 team, on paper, was clearly superior to the current team, yet they failed to qualify for the tournament, never mind the knockout stages. We had faded a bit by 2010, but that side still included Terry and Cole in defence, Lampard and Gerrard, although past their best, were still very good players and Rooney was a world class striker back then, which is evidently not the case anymore. Yet that team performed poorly in pretty much every game before getting smashed by the Germans in the second round. You could say we haven't created enough. To the extent that that is true, it has a lot to do with playing against sides that are set up only to defend. I would say the larger problem has simply been a failure to take chances. Had Sterling scored that early chance against Wales, it could have been a different game, had Vardy scored when 1 on 1 against Slovakia, we would have topped the group. The current side is weaker on paper than previous England sides, does not possess any recognizably world class players, and yet they have so far performed better than any England side since 2004. Surely that is good thing?
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Post by philm87 on Jun 22, 2016 15:32:25 GMT
Pugs you have returned to the pre-Sparky version of yourself. Some of what you say makes sense, I would only disagree with the level of emphasis, but your overall position of unceasing pessimism just doesn't make sense unless you have never watched England before. Okay, so Walker is defensively dross. Having watched him in the PL I would agree. But so what? That is not the manager's fault either. He is the best option we have right now and is currently performing well above himself, so why not celebrate that? What we have seen so far has been much better than at any point since 2004. Is it really better than Euro 2012 in the groups? I thought we defended well in that, came back brilliantly against Sweden and weren't really any worse even in being comfortable but pretty poor against Ukraine. I'm not sure. I thought we did okay in 2012 because we had a tough group and our team was pretty weak. Italy completely dominated us though and deserved to beat us quite comfortably in my opinion. I don't think that will happen again.
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 22, 2016 15:35:29 GMT
Stop focusing on Woy so much though. The TEAM is actually doing okay so far. Are they - results say otherwiseSmalling and Cahill actually look fairly solid (never thought I would say that) - bollocks.Walker is on fire - defensively he is tossDier is looking good - YEP.Rooney is playing as well as he has played at a tournament since 2004 - YEP
Lallana is actually doing quite well - is he? cannot hit the proverbial barn door.We know Alli and Kane have the quality, just fingers crossed their can produce it when it really counts. - t hat's the plan is it? Fingers crossed hope it goes well?Pugs you have returned to the pre-Sparky version of yourself. Some of what you say makes sense, I would only disagree with the level of emphasis, but your overall position of unceasing pessimism just doesn't make sense unless you have never watched England before. Okay, so Walker is defensively dross. Having watched him in the PL I would agree. But so what? That is not the manager's fault either. He is the best option we have right now and is currently performing well above himself, so why not celebrate that? What we have seen so far has been much better than at any point since 2004. I've watched England live on numerous occasions for 25 years and watched all the games on TV. To say Smalling and Cahill look solid is laughable. They've looked dodgy against teams who haven't attacked for goodness sake. At the other end we were predicted to score goals to compensate for our issues in defence - that hasn't happened, so what's the plan? Park the bus and play for penalties? I hope they progress I really do as it would be great for the country, but nothing we've seen so far suggest that getting beyond the 1/4 final is realistic, mainly due to the manager, his mental tactics and team selections. Depends on how you view that, for me, with the resources etc in England, it just isn't good enough.
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Post by Mint Berry Barks on Jun 22, 2016 16:03:00 GMT
Pugs you have returned to the pre-Sparky version of yourself. Some of what you say makes sense, I would only disagree with the level of emphasis, but your overall position of unceasing pessimism just doesn't make sense unless you have never watched England before. Okay, so Walker is defensively dross. Having watched him in the PL I would agree. But so what? That is not the manager's fault either. He is the best option we have right now and is currently performing well above himself, so why not celebrate that? What we have seen so far has been much better than at any point since 2004. I've watched England live on numerous occasions for 25 years and watched all the games on TV. To say Smalling and Cahill look solid is laughable. They've looked dodgy against teams who haven't attacked for goodness sake. At the other end we were predicted to score goals to compensate for our issues in defence - that hasn't happened, so what's the plan? Park the bus and play for penalties? I hope they progress I really do as it would be great for the country, but nothing we've seen so far suggest that getting beyond the 1/4 final is realistic, mainly due to the manager, his mental tactics and team selections. Depends on how you view that, for me, with the resources etc in England, it just isn't good enough. To be honest Pugs, I don't think there's many teams who you'd back to get beyond the quarters at the minute. I haven't been impressed with anybody. Germany seem to have similar problems scoring and creating at the moment. You can't predict which Spain team will turn up. France have been very underwhelming in a poor group. I've never seen Belgium play well. Italy are just doing what Italy do. I think over the three games, we've played alright in all honesty. I'm not saying we'll go far but the tournament is so wide open, anything could happen really. But that's caused by a lack of quality, not the opposite.
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Post by philm87 on Jun 22, 2016 16:47:51 GMT
I am no fan of Smalling and certainly not Cahill Pugs, but in fairness they have actually looked good so far from where I am watching. I admit openly that they have not been properly tested, but Smalling now actually looks a far better player than he was a year ago. I am actually more concerned about Hart.
If you had asked me before the tournament how Smalling and Cahill would cope with top level opposition, I would have said they would get destroyed. That is still possible, but I would give them more of a chance now. Maybe I just had incredibly low expectations, but this team has actually done better than I thought it would so far, albeit without the results to show for it.
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 22, 2016 16:52:40 GMT
I am no fan of Smalling and certainly not Cahill Pugs, but in fairness they have actually looked good so far from where I am watching. I admit openly that they have not been properly tested, but Smalling now actually looks a far better player than he was a year ago. I am actually more concerned about Hart. If you had asked me before the tournament how Smalling and Cahill would cope with top level opposition, I would have said they would get destroyed. That is still possible, but I would give them more of a chance now. Maybe I just had incredibly low expectations, but this team has actually done better than I thought it would so far, albeit without the results to show for it. Wow. Smalling has improved for Utd but the triumvirate of him Cahill and the hapless Hart together are a worry.
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Post by Boothen on Jun 22, 2016 16:56:14 GMT
Takes five strikers; can't score for love nor money.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 22, 2016 18:23:31 GMT
Perisic, Rakitic, Mandzukic, Corluka, Srna are all excellent players. Let's not pretend Croatia are a one man team. They are one of the best teams in it. I wasn't saying this bunch is better than what we had 10 years ago. I was saying this is the best crop we've had since then. And we're mismanaging them. Our problem has been that we haven't created enough. We've dominated without doing anything. We played well against Russia but he fucked it up. We were really very average in the other games. To take five points from that group is poor. You keep subtly altering what I am saying in order to justify the negativity. I never said, nor did I imply, that Croatia are one man team. I merely pointed out that Modric is their best player and that they beat Spain without him. The point that I was making is that there are betters teams than us - teams like Spain, France, Germany and Belgium - who have so far under performed or failed to beat sides that on paper they should be turning over comfortably. That is not surprising to me, because that is just football for you. Yet when England do this, we have a relentless chorus on doomsaying on here. The current team we have - on paper - is surely worse than the team we had in 2006? That team struggled through the group stages more so than we have done in this tournament and then got knocked out by Portugal in the quarter finals. The 2008 team, on paper, was clearly superior to the current team, yet they failed to qualify for the tournament, never mind the knockout stages. We had faded a bit by 2010, but that side still included Terry and Cole in defence, Lampard and Gerrard, although past their best, were still very good players and Rooney was a world class striker back then, which is evidently not the case anymore. Yet that team performed poorly in pretty much every game before getting smashed by the Germans in the second round. You could say we haven't created enough. To the extent that that is true, it has a lot to do with playing against sides that are set up only to defend. I would say the larger problem has simply been a failure to take chances. Had Sterling scored that early chance against Wales, it could have been a different game, had Vardy scored when 1 on 1 against Slovakia, we would have topped the group. The current side is weaker on paper than previous England sides, does not possess any recognizably world class players, and yet they have so far performed better than any England side since 2004. Surely that is good thing? I'm not altering anything Phil - it was you who said that 'by my logic' Spain should have waltzed past Croatia without their star player - a complete straw man given Croatia have a very strong team with or without Modric, certainly miles stronger than any of our opponents in Group B. I never said the team we had now was better than 2006. I could not have made that clearer. I don't agree that the 2008 bunch was especially better. The 2010 lot had a piss easy group, scraped three points in one game and drew the other two. That isn't really a lot different from this is it? I just don't see these good performances you've seen. I was optimistic we'd see some going into the tournament but beyond the first half vs Russia we've huffed and puffed, made it easy for teams to defend against us, and the manager has in two-thirds of our games made bizarre calls that have impacted on our chances. You say don't focus on the manager but you can't really separate him from his team. We have seen some good performances individually I agree. Hodgson has also got some stuff right - Rooney, the changes vs Wales. But what you keep avoiding is what it boils down to - we haven't done enough to win a poor group and we have made things unnecessarily tougher for ourselves. And that's where the negativity comes from.
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Post by Roger Everyone on Jun 22, 2016 18:45:36 GMT
Wroy is a complete Buffoon, should have gone after the world cup. I think that sums it up to be honest..
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Post by malteser68 on Jun 22, 2016 19:49:15 GMT
Which other players would you have selected from the mighty premier league topping Leicester ??!! There was only one possible candidate - drinkwater - and I don't think he would have bagged a couple of hat tricks by now !! With all their absentees in defence, not even Germany went for Huth from mighty Leicester but opted for Jonathan Tah when Rudiger had to be dropped due to injury As for the other players from mighty league-topping Leicester 'gracing' the Euros, Fuchs has been gash for Austria and Kante average ir below average Kante's had an excellent tournament. Oh has he ? If you say so ...
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 22, 2016 19:55:30 GMT
Kante's had an excellent tournament. Oh has he ? If you say so ... Well yes. The broad consensus (among people not obsessed with hating Leicester for no good reason) is that he has.
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Post by roylandstoke on Jun 22, 2016 21:18:39 GMT
Oh has he ? If you say so ... Well yes. The broad consensus (among people not obsessed with hating Leicester for no good reason) is that he has. 2 good reasons: 1. Play off 1996 2. They're not Stoke.
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Post by philm87 on Jun 22, 2016 21:45:39 GMT
You keep subtly altering what I am saying in order to justify the negativity. I never said, nor did I imply, that Croatia are one man team. I merely pointed out that Modric is their best player and that they beat Spain without him. The point that I was making is that there are betters teams than us - teams like Spain, France, Germany and Belgium - who have so far under performed or failed to beat sides that on paper they should be turning over comfortably. That is not surprising to me, because that is just football for you. Yet when England do this, we have a relentless chorus on doomsaying on here. The current team we have - on paper - is surely worse than the team we had in 2006? That team struggled through the group stages more so than we have done in this tournament and then got knocked out by Portugal in the quarter finals. The 2008 team, on paper, was clearly superior to the current team, yet they failed to qualify for the tournament, never mind the knockout stages. We had faded a bit by 2010, but that side still included Terry and Cole in defence, Lampard and Gerrard, although past their best, were still very good players and Rooney was a world class striker back then, which is evidently not the case anymore. Yet that team performed poorly in pretty much every game before getting smashed by the Germans in the second round. You could say we haven't created enough. To the extent that that is true, it has a lot to do with playing against sides that are set up only to defend. I would say the larger problem has simply been a failure to take chances. Had Sterling scored that early chance against Wales, it could have been a different game, had Vardy scored when 1 on 1 against Slovakia, we would have topped the group. The current side is weaker on paper than previous England sides, does not possess any recognizably world class players, and yet they have so far performed better than any England side since 2004. Surely that is good thing? I'm not altering anything Phil - it was you who said that 'by my logic' Spain should have waltzed past Croatia without their star player - a complete straw man given Croatia have a very strong team with or without Modric, certainly miles stronger than any of our opponents in Group B. I never said the team we had now was better than 2006. I could not have made that clearer. I don't agree that the 2008 bunch was especially better. The 2010 lot had a piss easy group, scraped three points in one game and drew the other two. That isn't really a lot different from this is it? I just don't see these good performances you've seen. I was optimistic we'd see some going into the tournament but beyond the first half vs Russia we've huffed and puffed, made it easy for teams to defend against us, and the manager has in two-thirds of our games made bizarre calls that have impacted on our chances. You say don't focus on the manager but you can't really separate him from his team. We have seen some good performances individually I agree. Hodgson has also got some stuff right - Rooney, the changes vs Wales. But what you keep avoiding is what it boils down to - we haven't done enough to win a poor group and we have made things unnecessarily tougher for ourselves. And that's where the negativity comes from. Spain should be beating Croatia regardless. Spain are better than us. The 2010 campaign was atrocious for me. Either way, I think the difference between us is one of emphasis. I see positives and negatives. The negatives I expected (we always huff and puff against defensive sides), the positives I did not. I am focusing slightly more on those to counterbalance the avalanche of negativity on here.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 22, 2016 21:49:56 GMT
I'm not altering anything Phil - it was you who said that 'by my logic' Spain should have waltzed past Croatia without their star player - a complete straw man given Croatia have a very strong team with or without Modric, certainly miles stronger than any of our opponents in Group B. I never said the team we had now was better than 2006. I could not have made that clearer. I don't agree that the 2008 bunch was especially better. The 2010 lot had a piss easy group, scraped three points in one game and drew the other two. That isn't really a lot different from this is it? I just don't see these good performances you've seen. I was optimistic we'd see some going into the tournament but beyond the first half vs Russia we've huffed and puffed, made it easy for teams to defend against us, and the manager has in two-thirds of our games made bizarre calls that have impacted on our chances. You say don't focus on the manager but you can't really separate him from his team. We have seen some good performances individually I agree. Hodgson has also got some stuff right - Rooney, the changes vs Wales. But what you keep avoiding is what it boils down to - we haven't done enough to win a poor group and we have made things unnecessarily tougher for ourselves. And that's where the negativity comes from. Spain should be beating Croatia regardless. Spain are better than us. The 2010 campaign was atrocious for me. Either way, I think the difference between us is one of emphasis. I see positives and negatives. The negatives I expected (we always huff and puff against defensive sides), the positives I did not. I am focusing slightly more on those to counterbalance the avalanche of negativity on here. Maybe the difference is one of expectations. I saw a clutch of exciting attacking talent and a reason to be cheerful for the first time in ages - with a very kind group. That's why the baffling decisions and dodgy tactics have disappointed me so much.
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Post by Squeekster on Jun 22, 2016 22:12:05 GMT
I'm not altering anything Phil - it was you who said that 'by my logic' Spain should have waltzed past Croatia without their star player - a complete straw man given Croatia have a very strong team with or without Modric, certainly miles stronger than any of our opponents in Group B. I never said the team we had now was better than 2006. I could not have made that clearer. I don't agree that the 2008 bunch was especially better. The 2010 lot had a piss easy group, scraped three points in one game and drew the other two. That isn't really a lot different from this is it? I just don't see these good performances you've seen. I was optimistic we'd see some going into the tournament but beyond the first half vs Russia we've huffed and puffed, made it easy for teams to defend against us, and the manager has in two-thirds of our games made bizarre calls that have impacted on our chances. You say don't focus on the manager but you can't really separate him from his team. We have seen some good performances individually I agree. Hodgson has also got some stuff right - Rooney, the changes vs Wales. But what you keep avoiding is what it boils down to - we haven't done enough to win a poor group and we have made things unnecessarily tougher for ourselves. And that's where the negativity comes from. Spain should be beating Croatia regardless. Spain are better than us. The 2010 campaign was atrocious for me. Either way, I think the difference between us is one of emphasis. I see positives and negatives. The negatives I expected (we always huff and puff against defensive sides), the positives I did not. I am focusing slightly more on those to counterbalance the avalanche of negativity on here. Why should Spain be beating Croatia end of? Yeah just like we should of won our group with maximum points on paper! Football doesn't work that way and if your still in it you can win it!
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Post by fredtheredandwhite on Jun 22, 2016 22:14:29 GMT
IN WOY WE TWUST
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Post by kustokie on Jun 22, 2016 22:18:39 GMT
Oh has he ? If you say so ... Well yes. The broad consensus (among people not obsessed with hating Leicester for no good reason) is that he has. Games 3, Goals 0. That says is all. He's a striker and his main job is putting the ball in the net. The rest is activity without productivity.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 23, 2016 5:44:26 GMT
Well yes. The broad consensus (among people not obsessed with hating Leicester for no good reason) is that he has. Games 3, Goals 0. That says is all. He's a striker and his main job is putting the ball in the net. The rest is activity without productivity. Eh? We're talking about N'Golo Kante, who are you taking about?
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