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Post by philm87 on Jun 21, 2016 21:26:56 GMT
I understand why Woy is not everyone's cup of tea, but I don't quite get the negativity on here.
We qualified comfortably, despite having on paper a far weaker team than we have had in a very long time. The so-called golden generation didn't even manage that in 2008.
We have qualified for the knock out stages comfortably, and have dominated in all three of the games we have played so far. In terms of performances, this current England team has done far better than any team we have had since 2004, when we had far better players.
The only problem so far has been our inability to stick the chances away. Personally, I don't think that will last forever, it is just something that happens from time to time.
I didn't enjoy watching England in 2006, didn't get to watch them at all in 2008, hated it in 2010, and neither 2012 nor 2014 were much better. Maybe I am setting my expectations a bit low, but what we have seen so far has been pretty decent, even if we haven't always got the results we deserved.
I think for some people on here moaning is just part of their identity.
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Post by march4 on Jun 21, 2016 21:29:49 GMT
We have no tactics, no team shape, no organisation and have selected only one player from the team that won the Prem by a clear 10 points and yet are filling the team with players from mid-table Liverpool.
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Post by whereami on Jun 21, 2016 21:29:54 GMT
5 pages incoming
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 21, 2016 21:32:06 GMT
We've finished second in a group containing three teams who are average on a good day. We consequently are stuck in the tough side of the draw when finishing top would have given us on paper a much easier ride.
The manager's decisions in terms of his subs vs Russia and avalanche of changes last night have played a huge part in that.
I don't hate Hodgson but he has done himself absolutely no favours.
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Post by philm87 on Jun 21, 2016 21:36:30 GMT
We've finished second in a group containing three teams who are average on a good day. We consequently are stuck in the tough side of the draw when finishing top would have given us on paper a much easier ride. The manager's decisions in terms of his subs vs Russia and avalanche of changes last night have played a huge part in that. I don't hate Hodgson but he has done himself absolutely no favours. I didn't agree with the Russia subs or the changes he made last night. However, I'm not sure those changes had a decisive impact? We played well enough to win comfortably last night. Slovakia just defended well and we failed to take our chances. I wouldn't say the other teams are 'average on a good day', I would say they are just average in general. And no game at this level will be easy, when the opposition have players like Hamsik or Bale. We will have to beat the big boys at some point if we are going to go far in this thing. Italy won their group but will now face Spain. I've never really been much of an Owl fan but why don't we just focus more on the team and stop moaning about him so much? We are playing well so far.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jun 21, 2016 21:40:44 GMT
We've put in three appalling performances against three appalling teams. There are no positives whatsoever.
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Post by philm87 on Jun 21, 2016 21:42:15 GMT
We've put in three appalling performances against three appalling teams. There are no positives whatsoever. That is just mental though. We have bossed it in all 3 games. I can't remember the last time England have done that. They have never done that in my lifetime. I think some people just have ridiculous expectations.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 21, 2016 21:42:50 GMT
We've finished second in a group containing three teams who are average on a good day. We consequently are stuck in the tough side of the draw when finishing top would have given us on paper a much easier ride. The manager's decisions in terms of his subs vs Russia and avalanche of changes last night have played a huge part in that. I don't hate Hodgson but he has done himself absolutely no favours. I didn't agree with the Russia subs or the changes he made last night. However, I'm not sure those changes had a decisive impact? We played well enough to win comfortably last night. Slovakia just defended well and we failed to take our chances. I wouldn't say the other teams are 'average on a good day', I would say they are just average in general. And no game at this level will be easy, when the opposition have players like Hamsik or Bale. We will have to beat the big boys at some point if we are going to go far in this thing. Italy won their group but will now face Spain. I've never really been much of an Owl fan but why don't we just focus more on the team and stop moaning about him so much? We are playing well so far. Bringing on Milner clearly had a decisive impact. It robbed us of an outlet and let Russia back into a game they'd offered nothing in. They're perhaps the worst team in the competition, as evidenced by the other teams brushing them aside. Slovakia defended well but we were like Stoke at home at their worst - ponderous, sloppy, bereft of ideas. I wouldn't say we played well, we didn't create enough. We haven't in any of the games so far. Not many games are easy in tournaments, no - but we really should be topping that group. We have better players than them and any team worth their salt faced with that opposition takes seven points at least.
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 21, 2016 21:42:52 GMT
Have we played well though? Maybe for a bit against Russia.
To me we look a disorganised rabble. We've had a lot of ball but have not had the quality in the final third to create clear cut chances. We appear to run quickly up to the final third then have no clue what to do thereafter.
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Post by sportsman on Jun 21, 2016 21:44:42 GMT
The only thing missing from last night was 'you'll never walk alone'
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Post by dutchstokie on Jun 21, 2016 21:45:30 GMT
We've finished second in a group containing three teams who are average on a good day. We consequently are stuck in the tough side of the draw when finishing top would have given us on paper a much easier ride. The manager's decisions in terms of his subs vs Russia and avalanche of changes last night have played a huge part in that. I don't hate Hodgson but he has done himself absolutely no favours. I didn't agree with the Russia subs or the changes he made last night. However, I'm not sure those changes had a decisive impact? We played well enough to win comfortably last night. Slovakia just defended well and we failed to take our chances. I wouldn't say the other teams are 'average on a good day', I would say they are just average in general. And no game at this level will be easy, when the opposition have players like Hamsik or Bale. We will have to beat the big boys at some point if we are going to go far in this thing. Italy won their group but will now face Spain. I've never really been much of an Owl fan but why don't we just focus more on the team and stop moaning about him so much? We are playing well so far. But that's one of the main points philm, we're not playing well. We have huffed and puffed our way through 3 games. We have had no continuity in the team, I lost count how many times Sturridge, Wilshere AND Henderson lost the ball last night, when simple 5-10 yard passes were on. Sloppy control or trying to bulldoze their way through achieved nothing. The width or glaring lack of, really hurt us last night, when the game was screaming out for Walker to come on and use his pace. What do people expect when we have such a group of shit players
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Post by philm87 on Jun 21, 2016 21:46:22 GMT
I didn't agree with the Russia subs or the changes he made last night. However, I'm not sure those changes had a decisive impact? We played well enough to win comfortably last night. Slovakia just defended well and we failed to take our chances. I wouldn't say the other teams are 'average on a good day', I would say they are just average in general. And no game at this level will be easy, when the opposition have players like Hamsik or Bale. We will have to beat the big boys at some point if we are going to go far in this thing. Italy won their group but will now face Spain. I've never really been much of an Owl fan but why don't we just focus more on the team and stop moaning about him so much? We are playing well so far. Bringing on Milner clearly had a decisive impact. It robbed us of an outlet and let Russia back into a game they'd offered nothing in. They're perhaps the worst team in the competition, as evidenced by the other teams brushing them aside. Slovakia defended well but we were like Stoke at home at their worst - ponderous, sloppy, bereft of ideas. I wouldn't say we played well, we didn't create enough. We haven't in any of the games so far. Not many games are easy in tournaments, no - but we really should be topping that group. We have better players than them and any team worth their salt faced with that opposition takes seven points at least. Spain didn't top their group, and they have much better players. France have home advantage, better players, and arguably poorer opponents, yet they have hardly look convincing so far. And the Germans were pretty poor against Ukraine. Even if you don't share my positive assessment, the idea that we should just easily brush aside everyone and that anything less is unacceptable is just unrealistic. Football never works like that. It is also strange (this is the same for Stoke and England) ... the teams we play against are ALWAYS the worst teams. That seems like too much of coincidence to me. We need to believe that everyone we play is shit in order to justify all the negativity.
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Post by philm87 on Jun 21, 2016 21:47:36 GMT
I didn't agree with the Russia subs or the changes he made last night. However, I'm not sure those changes had a decisive impact? We played well enough to win comfortably last night. Slovakia just defended well and we failed to take our chances. I wouldn't say the other teams are 'average on a good day', I would say they are just average in general. And no game at this level will be easy, when the opposition have players like Hamsik or Bale. We will have to beat the big boys at some point if we are going to go far in this thing. Italy won their group but will now face Spain. I've never really been much of an Owl fan but why don't we just focus more on the team and stop moaning about him so much? We are playing well so far. But that's one of the main points philm, we're not playing well. We have huffed and puffed our way through 3 games. We have had no continuity in the team, I lost count how many times Sturridge, Wilshere AND Henderson lost the ball last night, when simple 5-10 yard passes were on. Sloppy control or trying to bulldoze their way through achieved nothing. The width or glaring lack of, really hurt us last night, when the game was screaming out for Walker to come on and use his pace. What do people expect when we have such a group of shit players Well if we have such a shit group of players then presumably you are happy with how things are progressing?
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Post by Olgrligm on Jun 21, 2016 21:48:48 GMT
We've put in three appalling performances against three appalling teams. There are no positives whatsoever. That is just mental though. We have bossed it in all 3 games. I can't remember the last time England have done that. They have never done that in my lifetime. I think some people just have ridiculous expectations. We didn't, though. How can we have bossed the game against Slovakia, when their game plan was to stop us getting into their penalty area, and we failed to get into their penalty area? We had a good ten minutes against Russia and then 80 minutes of dross. We didn't deserve to win against Wales. Maybe I'm just inpatient because it's been like watching Stoke playing at home against Watford over and over again.
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Post by dexta on Jun 21, 2016 21:50:20 GMT
I understand why Woy is not everyone's cup of tea, but I don't quite get the negativity on here. We qualified comfortably, despite having on paper a far weaker team than we have had in a very long time. The so-called golden generation didn't even manage that in 2008. We have qualified for the knock out stages comfortably, and have dominated in all three of the games we have played so far. In terms of performances, this current England team has done far better than any team we have had since 2004, when we had far better players. The only problem so far has been our inability to stick the chances away. Personally, I don't think that will last forever, it is just something that happens from time to time. I didn't enjoy watching England in 2006, didn't get to watch them at all in 2008, hated it in 2010, and neither 2012 nor 2014 were much better. Maybe I am setting my expectations a bit low, but what we have seen so far has been pretty decent, even if we haven't always got the results we deserved. I think for some people on here moaning is just part of their identity. bang on the money fella...half of the fuckers on here didnt want hughes as stoke manager...clueless most on here they will soon be back on the england bandwagon
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Post by philm87 on Jun 21, 2016 21:51:31 GMT
That is just mental though. We have bossed it in all 3 games. I can't remember the last time England have done that. They have never done that in my lifetime. I think some people just have ridiculous expectations. We didn't, though. How can we have bossed the game against Slovakia, when their game plan was to stop us getting into their penalty area, and we failed to get into their penalty area? We had a good ten minutes against Russia and then 80 minutes of dross. We didn't deserve to win against Wales. Maybe I'm just inpatient because it's been like watching Stoke playing at home against Watford over and over again. No offence but you are just mental. There is no way anyone could think Wales deserved anything against us, and I have plenty of Welsh blood in me. They scored courtesy of a long range freekick and goal keeping error, against the run of play. They then spent the entirety of the second half stuck in their own half. Never mind not getting in the opponent's penalty area, they barely got past the halfway line. Everyone we have played against has just set up to defend. It is always going to be tough creating chances. The main problem is that we just haven't taken them. Vardy should have scored that chance against Slovakia for example.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Jun 21, 2016 21:51:59 GMT
We've finished second in a group containing three teams who are average on a good day. We consequently are stuck in the tough side of the draw when finishing top would have given us on paper a much easier ride. The manager's decisions in terms of his subs vs Russia and avalanche of changes last night have played a huge part in that. I don't hate Hodgson but he has done himself absolutely no favours. I don't understand all the concern now. He should've gone after a disastrous world cup. This tournament is all sunshine and rainbows in comparison.
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Post by turfite on Jun 21, 2016 21:53:40 GMT
If you take into account that the three teams who we have faced have camped at least 10 players behind the ball then we haven't fared that badly really.
We're still predictable, move the ball too slowly and our set pieces are shocking.
And Hodgson was daft for changing the midfield like he did against Slovakia.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 21, 2016 21:54:33 GMT
Bringing on Milner clearly had a decisive impact. It robbed us of an outlet and let Russia back into a game they'd offered nothing in. They're perhaps the worst team in the competition, as evidenced by the other teams brushing them aside. Slovakia defended well but we were like Stoke at home at their worst - ponderous, sloppy, bereft of ideas. I wouldn't say we played well, we didn't create enough. We haven't in any of the games so far. Not many games are easy in tournaments, no - but we really should be topping that group. We have better players than them and any team worth their salt faced with that opposition takes seven points at least. Spain didn't top their group, and they have much better players. France have home advantage, better players, and arguably poorer opponents, yet they have hardly look convincing so far. And the Germans were pretty poor against Ukraine. Even if you don't share my positive assessment, the idea that we should just easily brush aside everyone and that anything less is unacceptable is just unrealistic. Football never works like that. It is also strange (this is the same for Stoke and England) ... the teams we play against are ALWAYS the worst teams. That seems like too much of coincidence to me. We need to believe that everyone we play is shit in order to justify all the negativity. Sorry Phil but that's a total straw man. Spain had Croatia in their group who are one of the best teams in the competition. France and Germany took the seven points I was talking about. We had a weaker group than Germany or Spain. Nobody's talking about sweeping aside all and sundry, just about creating a fair bit more and topping a pretty poor group. Don't equate that with demanding we win the whole thing.
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Post by dutchstokie on Jun 21, 2016 21:54:35 GMT
But that's one of the main points philm, we're not playing well. We have huffed and puffed our way through 3 games. We have had no continuity in the team, I lost count how many times Sturridge, Wilshere AND Henderson lost the ball last night, when simple 5-10 yard passes were on. Sloppy control or trying to bulldoze their way through achieved nothing. The width or glaring lack of, really hurt us last night, when the game was screaming out for Walker to come on and use his pace. What do people expect when we have such a group of shit players Well if we have such a shit group of players then presumably you are happy with how things are progressing? I couldnt give two shits how we are progressing because it's the same EVERY tournament. I have put my stall out on numerous threads about this bunch of fuck ups and surprise surprise it's only gone and happened again !!!!
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 21, 2016 21:55:43 GMT
We've finished second in a group containing three teams who are average on a good day. We consequently are stuck in the tough side of the draw when finishing top would have given us on paper a much easier ride. The manager's decisions in terms of his subs vs Russia and avalanche of changes last night have played a huge part in that. I don't hate Hodgson but he has done himself absolutely no favours. I don't understand all the concern now. He should've gone after a disastrous world cup. This tournament is all sunshine and rainbows in comparison. I agree he should've gone after the world cup. Since then he's done ok for me. But the World Cup group was tougher than this one and I think this squad is stronger than that one. And he's doing his best to fuck it up.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 21:59:02 GMT
I'm just ready to get back to the real football...Stoke City!!!
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Post by philm87 on Jun 21, 2016 21:59:53 GMT
Spain didn't top their group, and they have much better players. France have home advantage, better players, and arguably poorer opponents, yet they have hardly look convincing so far. And the Germans were pretty poor against Ukraine. Even if you don't share my positive assessment, the idea that we should just easily brush aside everyone and that anything less is unacceptable is just unrealistic. Football never works like that. It is also strange (this is the same for Stoke and England) ... the teams we play against are ALWAYS the worst teams. That seems like too much of coincidence to me. We need to believe that everyone we play is shit in order to justify all the negativity. Sorry Phil but that's a total straw man. Spain had Croatia in their group who are one of the best teams in the competition. France and Germany took the seven points I was talking about. We had a weaker group than Germany or Spain. Nobody's talking about sweeping aside all and sundry, just about creating a fair bit more and topping a pretty poor group. Don't equate that with demanding we win the whole thing. Well yes Croatia are good. But a Croatia minus their star player should be easy pickings for a team like Spain going by your logic? Belgium are another who have better players than us and have been pretty poor so far in my opinion. We are not Spain, Germany, France or Belgium. We do not have world class players anymore. We have decent players that is all. It is true we struggled and look short of ideas towards the end on Monday night, but it is FACT that we have completely dominated in all three of our games so far. I'm not saying it is all rosy, but if you were reading on here - without having watched the matches - you would think this has been a disastrous tournament for us. I just don't see it like that at all. On balance, there appears to be more ground for optimism.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Jun 21, 2016 22:00:14 GMT
I don't understand all the concern now. He should've gone after a disastrous world cup. This tournament is all sunshine and rainbows in comparison. I agree he should've gone after the world cup. Since then he's done ok for me. But the World Cup group was tougher than this one and I think this squad is stronger than that one. And he's doing his best to fuck it up. The better squad is one he has shaped though? I completely agree we should've topped the group but I still think finishing 2nd is a lesser disaster than the farce of the world cup. I couldn't give a crap about what half of the draw we are in. We're not good enough regardless.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jun 21, 2016 22:04:08 GMT
We didn't, though. How can we have bossed the game against Slovakia, when their game plan was to stop us getting into their penalty area, and we failed to get into their penalty area? We had a good ten minutes against Russia and then 80 minutes of dross. We didn't deserve to win against Wales. Maybe I'm just inpatient because it's been like watching Stoke playing at home against Watford over and over again. No offence but you are just mental. There is no way anyone could think Wales deserved anything against us, and I have plenty of Welsh blood in me. They scored courtesy of a long range freekick and goal keeping error, against the run of play. They then spent the entirety of the second half stuck in their own half. Never mind not getting in the opponent's penalty area, they barely got past the halfway line. Everyone we have played against has just set up to defend. It is always going to be tough creating chances. The main problem is that we just haven't taken them. Vardy should have scored that chance against Slovakia for example. I don't think we're going to agree here! For me, it doesn't matter how much of the ball you have, if you haven't been able to create a chance to save your life against third rate opposition, then you've been rubbish. This passive possession is an absolute waste of time.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 21, 2016 22:09:33 GMT
Sorry Phil but that's a total straw man. Spain had Croatia in their group who are one of the best teams in the competition. France and Germany took the seven points I was talking about. We had a weaker group than Germany or Spain. Nobody's talking about sweeping aside all and sundry, just about creating a fair bit more and topping a pretty poor group. Don't equate that with demanding we win the whole thing. Well yes Croatia are good. But a Croatia minus their star player should be easy pickings for a team like Spain going by your logic? Belgium are another who have better players than us and have been pretty poor so far in my opinion. We are not Spain, Germany, France or Belgium. We do not have world class players anymore. We have decent players that is all. It is true we struggled and look short of ideas towards the end on Monday night, but it is FACT that we have completely dominated in all three of our games so far. I'm not saying it is all rosy, but if you were reading on here - without having watched the matches - you would think this has been a disastrous tournament for us. I just don't see it like that at all. On balance, there appears to be more ground for optimism. Croatia have loads of star players. They're not a one-man team. We don't have world class players but we have the most promising bunch we've had for nearly a decade. They should be capable of topping that group. That really isn't an unreasonable suggestion. Dominating the game without creating much counts for nothing. It's called sterile possession. We really haven't done enough with the ball when we've had it.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 21, 2016 22:11:08 GMT
I agree he should've gone after the world cup. Since then he's done ok for me. But the World Cup group was tougher than this one and I think this squad is stronger than that one. And he's doing his best to fuck it up. The better squad is one he has shaped though? I completely agree we should've topped the group but I still think finishing 2nd is a lesser disaster than the farce of the world cup. I couldn't give a crap about what half of the draw we are in. We're not good enough regardless. I agree he has shaped it and he deserves credit for it. I stuck up for him on here when he was getting dogs' abuse. I'd rather we were in the half of the draw where we could avoid the big guns until relatively late on.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Jun 21, 2016 22:13:15 GMT
The better squad is one he has shaped though? I completely agree we should've topped the group but I still think finishing 2nd is a lesser disaster than the farce of the world cup. I couldn't give a crap about what half of the draw we are in. We're not good enough regardless. I agree he has shaped it and he deserves credit for it. I stuck up for him on here when he was getting dogs' abuse. I'd rather we were in the half of the draw where we could avoid the big guns until relatively late on. Me too but we'd only be avoiding the inevitable. We'll go out as soon as we meet a proper team. Watching Croatia tonight, they're in a different stratosphere to us.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 21, 2016 22:16:37 GMT
I agree he has shaped it and he deserves credit for it. I stuck up for him on here when he was getting dogs' abuse. I'd rather we were in the half of the draw where we could avoid the big guns until relatively late on. Me too but we'd only be avoiding the inevitable. We'll go out as soon as we meet a proper team. Watching Croatia tonight, they're in a different stratosphere to us. That's always been the case as far as meeting a proper team though, which is why it'd be nice to enjoy the ride, out in some performances and go as far as we can. As it stands we're going to huff and puff our way through until the inevitable quarter final job because we've once again made things unnecessarily hard for ourselves.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Jun 21, 2016 22:19:09 GMT
Me too but we'd only be avoiding the inevitable. We'll go out as soon as we meet a proper team. Watching Croatia tonight, they're in a different stratosphere to us. That's always been the case as far as meeting a proper team though, which is why it'd be nice to enjoy the ride, out in some performances and go as far as we can. As it stands we're going to huff and puff our way through until the inevitable quarter final job because we've once again made things unnecessarily hard for ourselves. Agreed. He should've gone after the world cup. Some people seem to have short memories and allowed qualifying to "paper over the cracks". Qualifying should be the bare minium we expect. We've made our bed by sticking with him. It's too late now.
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