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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 21, 2016 22:20:41 GMT
I would have loved win the group it England's flaws only emphasise the things I have been banging on about for years.
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Post by Gods on Jun 21, 2016 22:30:07 GMT
I think we have made a pigs ear of a 'gimme' of a qualifying group, but we are still afloat and the straight KO stages are a lottery so you never know...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 22:34:48 GMT
We have decent players. It just takes us too long to get the ball forward. In fact it takes so long, I think we must be writing a letter to the opposition.
Dear ******** defenders, we are about to attack your goal. However before we do, we will pass the ball sideways and backwards to allow your defenders to get into position. When you are all in position, and you have a couple of your hardest men holding onto Jamie Vardy / Harry Kane. We will hit a long diagonal ball to one of our wing backs who has run 60 yards to receive it. He will deliver a superb cross into your area which you will probably deal comfortably enough, since we have given you plenty of notice.
Hope you enjoy the game
Roy's boys
xxx
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Post by potterspele on Jun 21, 2016 22:35:56 GMT
There's more to come from England going forward this tournament when we have some space to play in.
The two drawn games have only been a finish away from a win.
I agree with the majority of this thread though, the sub's in the first game have ultimately come back to bite us on the arse and given a massive uphill task.
Still I remain positive, Vardy has to start though for me and wilshere & Henderson put back on the bench.
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Post by malteser68 on Jun 22, 2016 4:02:40 GMT
We have no tactics, no team shape, no organisation and have selected only one player from the team that won the Prem by a clear 10 points and yet are filling the team with players from mid-table Liverpool. Which other players would you have selected from the mighty premier league topping Leicester ??!! There was only one possible candidate - drinkwater - and I don't think he would have bagged a couple of hat tricks by now !! With all their absentees in defence, not even Germany went for Huth from mighty Leicester but opted for Jonathan Tah when Rudiger had to be dropped due to injury As for the other players from mighty league-topping Leicester 'gracing' the Euros, Fuchs has been gash for Austria and Kante average ir below average
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Post by Northy on Jun 22, 2016 5:08:35 GMT
Sorry Phil but that's a total straw man. Spain had Croatia in their group who are one of the best teams in the competition. France and Germany took the seven points I was talking about. We had a weaker group than Germany or Spain. Nobody's talking about sweeping aside all and sundry, just about creating a fair bit more and topping a pretty poor group. Don't equate that with demanding we win the whole thing. Well yes Croatia are good. But a Croatia minus their star player should be easy pickings for a team like Spain going by your logic? Belgium are another who have better players than us and have been pretty poor so far in my opinion. We are not Spain, Germany, France or Belgium. We do not have world class players anymore. We have decent players that is all. It is true we struggled and look short of ideas towards the end on Monday night, but it is FACT that we have completely dominated in all three of our games so far. I'm not saying it is all rosy, but if you were reading on here - without having watched the matches - you would think this has been a disastrous tournament for us. I just don't see it like that at all. On balance, there appears to be more ground for optimism. Conceding a late goal to Russia was a disaster though, they had 34 and 37 year old centre halfs, chasing the game and playing a high back line, ideal for a fast forward to come on, yes? But no we got James Milner to 'shore things up' who then proceeds to not make a tackle and allows the cross for a goal
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Post by jaybee on Jun 22, 2016 6:02:32 GMT
We're still predictable, move the ball too slowly and our set pieces are shocking. As I said on Monday - it was just like watching Stoke City!
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 22, 2016 6:05:24 GMT
I note the earlier comment that we have a stronger squad now than the last tournament fiasco - maybe.
Unfortunately Woy has no idea what to do with that squad. He's still chopping and changing. The consequence is a shapeless, incoherent shambles. The sum of the whole being considerably less than the sum of the parts.
Hodgson is a disaster.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 22, 2016 6:09:00 GMT
We have no tactics, no team shape, no organisation and have selected only one player from the team that won the Prem by a clear 10 points and yet are filling the team with players from mid-table Liverpool. Which other players would you have selected from the mighty premier league topping Leicester ??!! There was only one possible candidate - drinkwater - and I don't think he would have bagged a couple of hat tricks by now !! With all their absentees in defence, not even Germany went for Huth from mighty Leicester but opted for Jonathan Tah when Rudiger had to be dropped due to injury As for the other players from mighty league-topping Leicester 'gracing' the Euros, Fuchs has been gash for Austria and Kante average ir below average Kante's had an excellent tournament.
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Post by ryan4england on Jun 22, 2016 7:43:10 GMT
It's a deep rooted dislike of Hodgson
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Post by foster on Jun 22, 2016 7:48:33 GMT
I haven't 'bashed Roy' and neither will I, but I don;t agree with us having a far weaker team than in recent years.
We have a very strong group of players.
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Post by foster on Jun 22, 2016 7:50:06 GMT
We have no tactics, no team shape, no organisation and have selected only one player from the team that won the Prem by a clear 10 points and yet are filling the team with players from mid-table Liverpool. Which other players would you have selected from the mighty premier league topping Leicester ??!! There was only one possible candidate - drinkwater - and I don't think he would have bagged a couple of hat tricks by now !! With all their absentees in defence, not even Germany went for Huth from mighty Leicester but opted for Jonathan Tah when Rudiger had to be dropped due to injury As for the other players from mighty league-topping Leicester 'gracing' the Euros, Fuchs has been gash for Austria and Kante average ir below average To be fair, Huth was actually behind Wolly in the pecking order.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jun 22, 2016 8:09:51 GMT
If we managed to win this tournament,it would be in spite of Woy, not because of him.
If he thinks Henderson had a good game v Slovakia, we really are fucked, it means he will have no hesitation in picking him again,that also goes for Wilshere, and Bertrand.
We are in the last 16, yet, Woy still has no idea what our best 11 is, or what tactics to use.
If he is still the manager for the next World Cup,we will be sitting here again, complaining about which players he has picked and wont have any idea what tactics to use, yet again.
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Post by jarhead on Jun 22, 2016 8:17:26 GMT
IF we win it or unluckily lose say in the semi you bunch of negative tools will be on the 'praise thread' say well done England blah blah
Hypocritical cunts!
We no Woy ain't the answer but its the players who will dig him out the shit not his tactical nouse so support the lads and enjoy it because we ain't expected to win it and don't take it so personally ffs it's a festival of football.
We even have cunts slating Arnie and Shaqiri on other threads I give up.
ITS ONLY FOOTBALL!
If it makes you that miserable Don't Fuckin Watch it or Stoke, we don't need you.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Jun 22, 2016 8:25:28 GMT
I just don't see the bloke as a manger , more a sports scientist who belongs in a coaching academy somewhere , football is a simple game being complicated by blokes like him .
He would never get the chance but if Big Sam had that talent at his disposal he would get a lot more out of them in tournaments .
Not putting away an awful Russia side and then messing his team about against Slovakia has left us in a very difficult half of the draw now .
I think its more frustration than negativity
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Jun 22, 2016 8:28:24 GMT
We've put in three appalling performances against three appalling teams. There are no positives whatsoever. That is just mental though. We have bossed it in all 3 games. I can't remember the last time England have done that. They have never done that in my lifetime. I think some people just have ridiculous expectations. People were saying that about Stoke last season when we could not break down defences at the Brit , he is paid an awful lot of money and has all the time in the world to work out how to do it and he also has the attacking players . In the first game we needed goalscorers so he plays sterling and lallana neither of whom are prolific , he then starts them in the second and just gets out of jail at the end , he then messes the rest of the team up in the third game
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Post by metalhead on Jun 22, 2016 9:03:07 GMT
We have absolutely no tactics, no organization, no plan B, can't score, can't defend, struggle to carve out decent chances, look like a squad who haven't gelled well, best player has probably burnt out, best keeper is injured, second best keeper at fault in the first game, top heavy squad, choppy changey midfield yet no ability to actual impact when it matters and we're struggling to break down teams despite having all the possession.
Other than that, we're fine.
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Post by Birchesheadpotter on Jun 22, 2016 9:44:13 GMT
Bilic said it perfectly; Why are people celebrating possession against 3 teams that clearly didn't want it?
All 3 teams set up to avoid defeat, and save for a last gasp scramble against the eventual group winners, all 3 would have succeeded. We knew this would be the case and our plan? Stroke it round as if we are defending a 3-0 aggregate lead.
I'm genuinely curious as to what we have been doing in training to be honest.
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Post by metalhead on Jun 22, 2016 9:55:12 GMT
Bilic said it perfectly; Why are people celebrating possession against 3 teams that clearly didn't want it? All 3 teams set up to avoid defeat, and save for a last gasp scramble against the eventual group winners, all 3 would have succeeded. We knew this would be the case and our plan? Stroke it round as if we are defending a 3-0 aggregate lead. I'm genuinely curious as to what we have been doing in training to be honest. For me the thing that really winds me up, is that BBC and ITV have both been incredibly quick to censor any negative comments about England, even from their own pundits. After the Russia game, Lothar Matthaus started ripping Roy Hodgson a new arsehole live on TV. So not to offend the FA and Woy, Mark Pougatch quickly interrupted him and started blabbering on about something else. Unbelievable.... you have one of the greatest footballers sat on your sofa, probably the greatest footballer of his era, a man who when you say "he won everything there was to be won", it's not just an exaggerated comment about how good they were, in Matthaus case, he literally won everything possible in his career, and some fat University educated non-footballing presenter interrupts him because his opinion is more valid? I mean are you fucking serious? That's how far they'll go not to offend the FA and Woy though.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 22, 2016 10:02:04 GMT
Bilic said it perfectly; Why are people celebrating possession against 3 teams that clearly didn't want it? All 3 teams set up to avoid defeat, and save for a last gasp scramble against the eventual group winners, all 3 would have succeeded. We knew this would be the case and our plan? Stroke it round as if we are defending a 3-0 aggregate lead. I'm genuinely curious as to what we have been doing in training to be honest. They haven't been practicing corners that'sfor sure.
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Post by philm87 on Jun 22, 2016 10:08:51 GMT
Well yes Croatia are good. But a Croatia minus their star player should be easy pickings for a team like Spain going by your logic? Belgium are another who have better players than us and have been pretty poor so far in my opinion. We are not Spain, Germany, France or Belgium. We do not have world class players anymore. We have decent players that is all. It is true we struggled and look short of ideas towards the end on Monday night, but it is FACT that we have completely dominated in all three of our games so far. I'm not saying it is all rosy, but if you were reading on here - without having watched the matches - you would think this has been a disastrous tournament for us. I just don't see it like that at all. On balance, there appears to be more ground for optimism. Croatia have loads of star players. They're not a one-man team. We don't have world class players but we have the most promising bunch we've had for nearly a decade. They should be capable of topping that group. That really isn't an unreasonable suggestion. Dominating the game without creating much counts for nothing. It's called sterile possession. We really haven't done enough with the ball when we've had it. No Modric is their star player. He was the matchwinner in their first game and the best player on the pitch until he went off in the second game. I can ask my Croatian supporting friend who watches every game, she will say the same. She also says they want to avoid England, because we are playing well. I agree we have a promising bunch, but they are not the finished articles yet. Two years time will be different. Right now though, compared these players to what we had on paper ten years ago and your argument just does not stack up. We had two world class centre backs, a world class left back, at least two world class midfield players, at least one world class striker. We simply don't have that level of quality now. Alli and co may get to that level in a couple of years, but they are not at that level yet. When I say dominate the game, I am not simply referring to possession stats. We didn't actually have that much possession against Russia. We have been dominant not just in terms of possession, but in terms of territory, in terms of chances created and in terms of shots at goal. That has been true in every game. I agree we haven't quite done enough with the ball, but the main thing we haven't done is convert chances, which has allowed our opponents to persist with negative tactics for the full 90 minutes. That is unlikely to happen indefinitely. Overall though, I agree with a lot of your points, I just don't see how it ends up to the level of negativity we have on here.
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Post by philm87 on Jun 22, 2016 10:10:28 GMT
Bilic said it perfectly; Why are people celebrating possession against 3 teams that clearly didn't want it? All 3 teams set up to avoid defeat, and save for a last gasp scramble against the eventual group winners, all 3 would have succeeded. We knew this would be the case and our plan? Stroke it round as if we are defending a 3-0 aggregate lead. I'm genuinely curious as to what we have been doing in training to be honest. So Wales planned to allow us to have all the possession in the second half, and have all the possession in their half, in and around their penalty area?
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Post by philm87 on Jun 22, 2016 10:12:29 GMT
If we managed to win this tournament,it would be in spite of Woy, not because of him. If he thinks Henderson had a good game v Slovakia, we really are fucked, it means he will have no hesitation in picking him again,that also goes for Wilshere, and Bertrand. We are in the last 16, yet, Woy still has no idea what our best 11 is, or what tactics to use. If he is still the manager for the next World Cup,we will be sitting here again, complaining about which players he has picked and wont have any idea what tactics to use, yet again. So if we lose if will be his fault, but if we win it will have nothing to do with him? Do you not see how that is a ridiculous position to take?
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Post by metalhead on Jun 22, 2016 10:13:24 GMT
If we managed to win this tournament,it would be in spite of Woy, not because of him. If he thinks Henderson had a good game v Slovakia, we really are fucked, it means he will have no hesitation in picking him again,that also goes for Wilshere, and Bertrand. We are in the last 16, yet, Woy still has no idea what our best 11 is, or what tactics to use. If he is still the manager for the next World Cup,we will be sitting here again, complaining about which players he has picked and wont have any idea what tactics to use, yet again. So if we lose if will be his fault, but if we win it will have nothing to do with him? Do you not see how that is a ridiculous position to take? We won't win, so it's not really an issue.
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Post by philm87 on Jun 22, 2016 10:14:58 GMT
So if we lose if will be his fault, but if we win it will have nothing to do with him? Do you not see how that is a ridiculous position to take? We won't win, so it's not really an issue. Well its a hypothetical point, which just shows the pointlessness of this Hodgson-obsession self-fueling pessimism.
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Post by superheroantonius on Jun 22, 2016 10:22:13 GMT
He has gone out of his way to make sure everyone knows he doesn't want players like john terry , scott dann and glen Johnson in his England set up
Why ???
Eric Dier is a good player covering for some dodgy ( at this level ) defenders , but why not just play him in front of good players who know how to defend
With Dier and Drinkwater in front of our four best defenders imo we would keep more clean sheets
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Post by foster on Jun 22, 2016 10:22:50 GMT
I'm optimistic based on the fact that we've not lost a game and managed to get through the group. We also beat the team that topped the group.
Pessimistic because we've only scored 3 goals (same as Bale on his own) and have no plan B. I don't consider it the players fault for the two draws. I blame the poor tactical awareness whereby the only way to score goals it seems is to add more strikers rather than adopting a change in strategy/tactics.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Jun 22, 2016 10:23:48 GMT
Because, after several years of Woy, they are still not a team! They don't look a team, don't play like a team! They've got no spirit, passion , mojo!
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 22, 2016 10:23:57 GMT
His FA bosses aren't happy with him - desperate WoyEngland supporters aren't happy with him Half of the squad aren't happy with him I'd love to know any reason why this bloke should be in charge of our national team right now.
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Post by foster on Jun 22, 2016 10:24:39 GMT
He has gone out of his way to make sure everyone knows he doesn't want players like john terry , scott dann and glen Johnson in his England set up Why ??? Eric Dier is a good player covering for some dodgy ( at this level ) defenders , but why not just play him in front of good players who know how to defend With Dier and Drinkwater in front of our four best defenders imo we would keep more clean sheets You've gone from describing a realistic scenario to one that's not possible.
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