|
Post by The Stubborn Optimist on Jun 13, 2016 12:48:51 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 13, 2016 12:57:30 GMT
This the statement which the FSF has issued. I will also post the statement from our colleagues in the Russian fans embassy : In Marseille, England fans were subjected to numerous pre-planned, organised and brutal attacks on several occasions in the days preceding the game against Russia, in the stadium itself, and after the match. Dozens of England fans have been injured, some seriously. Many more, including women and children, have been affected by tear gas or water cannons deployed by the police. It has meant for many a very unpleasant beginning to what should be a thoroughly enjoyable carnival of football. With a few honourable exceptions, the knee-jerk first response of many in the media and in politics has been once again to cast blame on us, lazily or to suit their own agenda falling back on out-of-date stereotypes about English hooligans abroad. Whatever the history – and there has been plenty in years gone by which earned us a negative reputation – this time, those accusations are wide of the mark. We’re not claiming that all England supporters are angels. While the big majority of us come and party in the real spirit of football, making new friends as we go, there are still a number among us who drink maybe more than is wise, or who sing songs that aren’t to everyone’s taste. But what we can say with confidence is that to the best of our knowledge, none of the many violent incidents that took place in Marseille during our time there were initiated by England fans. We have witnessed groups coming together – sometimes Russian hooligans, sometimes Marseille ultras, sometimes simply gangs of local youths – with the deliberate aim of attacking England fans eating and drinking in and outside bars and restaurants or making our way to the game. Some of them have been tooled up, some of them have had their faces masked, but all of them have been intent on starting trouble and initiating violence. The attacks have often been brutal, and in that context, we can hardly condemn those England fans who were left with little option but to defend themselves and in some cases their families. But of course those are often the images that end up on TV and are used out of context to demonise England fans. The media talk of “clashes” between fans, as if there were two groups determined to confront each other. That wasn’t what happened here. These were cowardly attacks on groups that included families, on innocent people minding their own business and trying to enjoy the tournament. That kind of behaviour and its perpetrators have no place in football, and it’s with these people that the blame for the Marseille events clearly belongs. That these attacks were allowed to happen at all raises crucial questions about the role of the French police. Surely the first responsibility of a police force in a country hosting a tournament is to make sure that those who have come to enjoy it can do so in safety, protected of course as far as possible from terrorism, but also from attacks by local thugs or visiting hooligans? And yet we have witnessed these groups come together to prepare their assaults on crowds of fans while the police watch and let it happen. If they can see a potential problem developing before their eyes, why do they do nothing to stop them getting near their target? Time after time, the first intervention of the French police has been to use tear gas and then water cannons. It’s in the nature of tear gas that it doesn’t discriminate between perpetrators and passers-by, between attackers and victims, and it often lands when the villains of the piece have already run off – leaving those who have just been attacked or in the vicinity with eyes stinging and streaming, and struggling to breathe. The other consequence of this police approach is that while it may look dramatic and effective, with people running for cover, it actually leaves the hooligans free to fight again another day. None of them are arrested, they get to slope off and re-group ready for their next assault, or to travel to their next venue. All the trouble on the streets of Marseille was then followed by the appalling scenes inside the ground at the end of the game: illegal pyrotechnics, a huge banger, political and far-right flags, and then finally the frontal assault on England fans in the adjacent blocks – a neutral sector containing also French fans and many family groups. All of it entirely unacceptable. At Euro 2000, the England team were threatened with exclusion from the tournament because of the behaviour of our fans – and yet the problems we admittedly did generate then were small beer compared to what has unfolded with the Russian hooligans over the last few days. We opposed the expulsion of England from Euro 2000 on the grounds that to expel the team would be to punish the majority of fans as much, and arguably even more, that the guilty minority – and we would argue the same principle applies to any threat to expel Russia from the tournament now. Any sanction should isolate and punish the perpetrators; the majority of fans are part of the solution, not the problem. One significant difference however is that after Euro 2000 and that expulsion threat, there was a concerted effort in England, involving everyone across the game including government, police, the FA and fans’ organisations, to address the problems that we had. This resulted among other things in new laws and the creation of football banning orders, and it worked: the result has been, over time, a huge improvement in the behaviour and reputation of England fans, which has seen us rightly praised on more than one occasion for our contribution to a tournament’s atmosphere. If Russia wants to be taken seriously as a football nation, competing in and indeed even hosting major international tournaments, then surely there has to be some serious action taken within Russia to stop their thug element carrying out these cowardly violent attacks? As things stand now, the prospect of a World Cup in Russia looks less appealing than ever. Maybe that’s for the future. But now, with immediate effect, we need the French authorities to ensure that England fans are able to enjoy Euro 2016 in the carnival mood at which we excel, safe from aggression and encouraged to party. - See more at: www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/fsf-statement-attacks-on-english-fans-in-marseille-euro2016#sthash.Tf3IGHLf.dpuf
A few questions Malcolm ...
1. Have UEFA made reference to what is the specific (and that's the important bit) reason why England are being threatened with expulsion from the tournament? As far as I'm aware England haven't actually been charged with anything, so why are we being threatened with a punishment?
2. UEFA have previously stated that they don't have any powers of jurisdiction over events that take place away from the match day stadia and as only the Russians have been charged with events that took place inside the stadium, why are they now seeking to exercise powers over events that have taken place elsewhere?
3. If UEFA are now going to exercise powers of jurisdiction over events that take place away from the match day stadia, then why aren't France themselves being threatened with expulsion from the competition. There are numerous examples (corroborated by the French police) of local French ultras attacking supporters from other nations in Lille, Nice and Marseille amongst other cities?
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Jun 13, 2016 12:59:03 GMT
Going by his Twitter handle, are we to assume that he's a Leeds fan? He looks like a crew-member from Das Boot. Thank £@#& he's not Stoke
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jun 13, 2016 13:09:51 GMT
This the statement which the FSF has issued. I will also post the statement from our colleagues in the Russian fans embassy : In Marseille, England fans were subjected to numerous pre-planned, organised and brutal attacks on several occasions in the days preceding the game against Russia, in the stadium itself, and after the match. Dozens of England fans have been injured, some seriously. Many more, including women and children, have been affected by tear gas or water cannons deployed by the police. It has meant for many a very unpleasant beginning to what should be a thoroughly enjoyable carnival of football. With a few honourable exceptions, the knee-jerk first response of many in the media and in politics has been once again to cast blame on us, lazily or to suit their own agenda falling back on out-of-date stereotypes about English hooligans abroad. Whatever the history – and there has been plenty in years gone by which earned us a negative reputation – this time, those accusations are wide of the mark. We’re not claiming that all England supporters are angels. While the big majority of us come and party in the real spirit of football, making new friends as we go, there are still a number among us who drink maybe more than is wise, or who sing songs that aren’t to everyone’s taste. But what we can say with confidence is that to the best of our knowledge, none of the many violent incidents that took place in Marseille during our time there were initiated by England fans. We have witnessed groups coming together – sometimes Russian hooligans, sometimes Marseille ultras, sometimes simply gangs of local youths – with the deliberate aim of attacking England fans eating and drinking in and outside bars and restaurants or making our way to the game. Some of them have been tooled up, some of them have had their faces masked, but all of them have been intent on starting trouble and initiating violence. The attacks have often been brutal, and in that context, we can hardly condemn those England fans who were left with little option but to defend themselves and in some cases their families. But of course those are often the images that end up on TV and are used out of context to demonise England fans. The media talk of “clashes” between fans, as if there were two groups determined to confront each other. That wasn’t what happened here. These were cowardly attacks on groups that included families, on innocent people minding their own business and trying to enjoy the tournament. That kind of behaviour and its perpetrators have no place in football, and it’s with these people that the blame for the Marseille events clearly belongs. That these attacks were allowed to happen at all raises crucial questions about the role of the French police. Surely the first responsibility of a police force in a country hosting a tournament is to make sure that those who have come to enjoy it can do so in safety, protected of course as far as possible from terrorism, but also from attacks by local thugs or visiting hooligans? And yet we have witnessed these groups come together to prepare their assaults on crowds of fans while the police watch and let it happen. If they can see a potential problem developing before their eyes, why do they do nothing to stop them getting near their target? Time after time, the first intervention of the French police has been to use tear gas and then water cannons. It’s in the nature of tear gas that it doesn’t discriminate between perpetrators and passers-by, between attackers and victims, and it often lands when the villains of the piece have already run off – leaving those who have just been attacked or in the vicinity with eyes stinging and streaming, and struggling to breathe. The other consequence of this police approach is that while it may look dramatic and effective, with people running for cover, it actually leaves the hooligans free to fight again another day. None of them are arrested, they get to slope off and re-group ready for their next assault, or to travel to their next venue. All the trouble on the streets of Marseille was then followed by the appalling scenes inside the ground at the end of the game: illegal pyrotechnics, a huge banger, political and far-right flags, and then finally the frontal assault on England fans in the adjacent blocks – a neutral sector containing also French fans and many family groups. All of it entirely unacceptable. At Euro 2000, the England team were threatened with exclusion from the tournament because of the behaviour of our fans – and yet the problems we admittedly did generate then were small beer compared to what has unfolded with the Russian hooligans over the last few days. We opposed the expulsion of England from Euro 2000 on the grounds that to expel the team would be to punish the majority of fans as much, and arguably even more, that the guilty minority – and we would argue the same principle applies to any threat to expel Russia from the tournament now. Any sanction should isolate and punish the perpetrators; the majority of fans are part of the solution, not the problem. One significant difference however is that after Euro 2000 and that expulsion threat, there was a concerted effort in England, involving everyone across the game including government, police, the FA and fans’ organisations, to address the problems that we had. This resulted among other things in new laws and the creation of football banning orders, and it worked: the result has been, over time, a huge improvement in the behaviour and reputation of England fans, which has seen us rightly praised on more than one occasion for our contribution to a tournament’s atmosphere. If Russia wants to be taken seriously as a football nation, competing in and indeed even hosting major international tournaments, then surely there has to be some serious action taken within Russia to stop their thug element carrying out these cowardly violent attacks? As things stand now, the prospect of a World Cup in Russia looks less appealing than ever. Maybe that’s for the future. But now, with immediate effect, we need the French authorities to ensure that England fans are able to enjoy Euro 2016 in the carnival mood at which we excel, safe from aggression and encouraged to party. - See more at: www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/fsf-statement-attacks-on-english-fans-in-marseille-euro2016#sthash.Tf3IGHLf.dpuf
A few questions Malcolm ...
1. Have UEFA made reference to what is the specific (and that's the important bit) reason why England are being threatened with expulsion from the tournament? As far as I'm aware England haven't actually been charged with anything, so why are we being threatened with a punishment?
2. UEFA have previously stated that they don't have any powers of jurisdiction over events that take place away from the match day stadia and as only the Russians have been charged with events that took place inside the stadium, why are they now seeking to exercise powers over events that have taken place elsewhere?
3. If UEFA are now going to exercise powers of jurisdiction over events that take place away from the match day stadia, then why aren't France themselves being threatened with expulsion from the competition. There are numerous examples (corroborated by the French police) of local French ultras attacking supporters from other nations in Lille, Nice and Marseille amongst other cities?
All very good questions, Paul, to which I don't know the answers ! I came home from Marseille yesterday, but I have no doubt Kevin Miles, who heads up our fans embassy team, will be talking to all the relevant authorities about these issues - and many more. If I find out anything on these issues, I'll post.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 13, 2016 13:12:37 GMT
Thanks Malcolm.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jun 13, 2016 13:24:25 GMT
This the statement which the FSF has issued. I will also post the statement from our colleagues in the Russian fans embassy : I find this FSF statement really interesting, particularly the references to Euro 2000. I tried to explain to various police authorities and political party representatives that something very similar actually took place during Euro 2000, where both Turkish and local hooligans were aided and abetted by the Belgian police in targeting and attacking innocent England supporters. No-one wanted to listen. It went "against the grain" and it was far easier to blame English hooligans. For whatever reason, perhaps as a means to credit themselves on work done to rid our game of hooligan elements, seemingly the various bodies are only too willing to accept that innocent English fans are being targeted by both visiting and local hooligans. I don't doubt it's true but it is really interesting how we are prepared to accept this as being true now whereas 16 years ago, we weren't. I don't know whether you had any contact with/help from with the FSA (as we then were) in 2000, Paul, but we didn't accept the simplistic narrative, and certainly opposed the indiscriminate incarceration and expulsion of fans who (like you) were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and tried, without as I recall too much success, to help some of those affected by it. It's probably also true to say that the popular media narrative was more credible then, because of past behaviour of some England fans, than it is today, following a number of largely trouble-free years. Today we are better resourced, and much more knowledgeable, experienced and media savvy, than we were then, when the fans embassy concept was still in its relative infancy.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Jun 13, 2016 13:44:27 GMT
I find this FSF statement really interesting, particularly the references to Euro 2000. I tried to explain to various police authorities and political party representatives that something very similar actually took place during Euro 2000, where both Turkish and local hooligans were aided and abetted by the Belgian police in targeting and attacking innocent England supporters. No-one wanted to listen. It went "against the grain" and it was far easier to blame English hooligans. For whatever reason, perhaps as a means to credit themselves on work done to rid our game of hooligan elements, seemingly the various bodies are only too willing to accept that innocent English fans are being targeted by both visiting and local hooligans. I don't doubt it's true but it is really interesting how we are prepared to accept this as being true now whereas 16 years ago, we weren't. I don't know whether you had any contact with/help from with the FSA (as we then were) in 2000, Paul, but we didn't accept the simplistic narrative, and certainly opposed the indiscriminate incarceration and expulsion of fans who (like you) were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and tried, without as I recall too much success, to help some of those affected by it. It's probably also true to say that the popular media narrative was more credible then, because of past behaviour of some England fans, than it is today, following a number of largely trouble-free years. Today we are better resourced, and much more knowledgeable, experienced and media savvy, than we were then, when the fans embassy concept was still in its relative infancy. To be honest I didn't know who the FSA were back then so I didn't contact anyone for help. I had to pay for my dad to get a flight to Belgium, then a taxi to the hotel so as to pick up our belongings and get my car from the car park. The car had been "impounded" (if that's the right word) so I had to pay for the release of that) then had to get another Eurotunnel crossing because ours had lapsed. All in all it cost me over 2k. I was concerned about being placed on a football offenders register so spoke with various authorities and those discussions actually led me to complain about my own local MP to Westminster when she pretty much said "you're a football fan, what did you expect would happen". It is no wonder your efforts to help some cases failed. A representative from the British Embassy visited supporters in the cells and wouldn't really help anyone. They even left an American, with no interest in football at all, in the cells and deported him back to Manchester not to mention the worst case I've ever seen where a grandfather with his 18 and 14 year old grandchildren was left in a cell, separated from them both, without a clue what was going on. I thought he was going to die from the sheer panic of being separated from his grandchildren. I was locked up for about 2 and half days. He was released partway through day 2. He literally cried and shook uncontrollably for the whole time he was locked up with me. It was disgusting. It later transpired that everyone who was locked up in the same Police Training HQ as me was released without charge yet still deported all the same. I was flown back to the UK, handcuffed to a Belgian police officer for doing absolutely nothing wrong. It was a disgrace, but no-one wanted to know, least of all those in positions of authority within the police and government. I would never dream of travelling to watch England again and have taken little interest in the National Team ever since that day. Seemingly, events in Marseille have similar parallels.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jun 13, 2016 13:56:18 GMT
I don't know whether you had any contact with/help from with the FSA (as we then were) in 2000, Paul, but we didn't accept the simplistic narrative, and certainly opposed the indiscriminate incarceration and expulsion of fans who (like you) were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and tried, without as I recall too much success, to help some of those affected by it. It's probably also true to say that the popular media narrative was more credible then, because of past behaviour of some England fans, than it is today, following a number of largely trouble-free years. Today we are better resourced, and much more knowledgeable, experienced and media savvy, than we were then, when the fans embassy concept was still in its relative infancy. To be honest I didn't know who the FSA were back then so I didn't contact anyone for help. I had to pay for my dad to get a flight to Belgium, then a taxi to the hotel so as to pick up our belongings and get my car from the car park. The car had been "impounded" (if that's the right word) so I had to pay for the release of that) then had to get another Eurotunnel crossing because ours had lapsed. All in all it cost me over 2k. I was concerned about being placed on a football offenders register so spoke with various authorities and those discussions actually led me to complain about my own local MP to Westminster when she pretty much said "you're a football fan, what did you expect would happen". It is no wonder your efforts to help some cases failed. A representative from the British Embassy visited supporters in the cells and wouldn't really help anyone. They even left an American, with no interest in football at all, in the cells and deported him back to Manchester not to mention the worst case I've ever seen where a grandfather with his 18 and 14 year old grandchildren was left in a cell, separated from them both, without a clue what was going on. I thought he was going to die from the sheer panic of being separated from his grandchildren. I was locked up for about 2 and half days. He was released partway through day 2. He literally cried and shook uncontrollably for the whole time he was locked up with me. It was disgusting. It later transpired that everyone who was locked up in the same Police Training HQ as me was released without charge yet still deported all the same. I was flown back to the UK, handcuffed to a Belgian police officer for doing absolutely nothing wrong. It was a disgrace, but no-one wanted to know, least of all those in positions of authority within the police and government. I would never dream of travelling to watch England again and have taken little interest in the National Team ever since that day. Seemingly, events in Marseille have similar parallels. Truly appalling. We did raise those issues at the time. I hope and think we are more effective today, both on the ground, and in the political (both small and big 'p') relationships. Kevin Miles who heads up our team in France, has now been doing it for 20 years and I think is also trusted by the English agencies
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jun 13, 2016 14:04:47 GMT
I don't know whether you had any contact with/help from with the FSA (as we then were) in 2000, Paul, but we didn't accept the simplistic narrative, and certainly opposed the indiscriminate incarceration and expulsion of fans who (like you) were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and tried, without as I recall too much success, to help some of those affected by it. It's probably also true to say that the popular media narrative was more credible then, because of past behaviour of some England fans, than it is today, following a number of largely trouble-free years. Today we are better resourced, and much more knowledgeable, experienced and media savvy, than we were then, when the fans embassy concept was still in its relative infancy. To be honest I didn't know who the FSA were back then so I didn't contact anyone for help. I had to pay for my dad to get a flight to Belgium, then a taxi to the hotel so as to pick up our belongings and get my car from the car park. The car had been "impounded" (if that's the right word) so I had to pay for the release of that) then had to get another Eurotunnel crossing because ours had lapsed. All in all it cost me over 2k. I was concerned about being placed on a football offenders register so spoke with various authorities and those discussions actually led me to complain about my own local MP to Westminster when she pretty much said "you're a football fan, what did you expect would happen". It is no wonder your efforts to help some cases failed. A representative from the British Embassy visited supporters in the cells and wouldn't really help anyone. They even left an American, with no interest in football at all, in the cells and deported him back to Manchester not to mention the worst case I've ever seen where a grandfather with his 18 and 14 year old grandchildren was left in a cell, separated from them both, without a clue what was going on. I thought he was going to die from the sheer panic of being separated from his grandchildren. I was locked up for about 2 and half days. He was released partway through day 2. He literally cried and shook uncontrollably for the whole time he was locked up with me. It was disgusting. It later transpired that everyone who was locked up in the same Police Training HQ as me was released without charge yet still deported all the same. I was flown back to the UK, handcuffed to a Belgian police officer for doing absolutely nothing wrong. It was a disgrace, but no-one wanted to know, least of all those in positions of authority within the police and government. I would never dream of travelling to watch England again and have taken little interest in the National Team ever since that day. Seemingly, events in Marseille have similar parallels. Just noticed I called you Paul above, Dave for which apologies. Premature senility ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/4tzqvp1fxEemag_TAXLJ.gif) probably because I also replied to a post from Paul Spencer)
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Jun 13, 2016 14:22:02 GMT
To be honest I didn't know who the FSA were back then so I didn't contact anyone for help. I had to pay for my dad to get a flight to Belgium, then a taxi to the hotel so as to pick up our belongings and get my car from the car park. The car had been "impounded" (if that's the right word) so I had to pay for the release of that) then had to get another Eurotunnel crossing because ours had lapsed. All in all it cost me over 2k. I was concerned about being placed on a football offenders register so spoke with various authorities and those discussions actually led me to complain about my own local MP to Westminster when she pretty much said "you're a football fan, what did you expect would happen". It is no wonder your efforts to help some cases failed. A representative from the British Embassy visited supporters in the cells and wouldn't really help anyone. They even left an American, with no interest in football at all, in the cells and deported him back to Manchester not to mention the worst case I've ever seen where a grandfather with his 18 and 14 year old grandchildren was left in a cell, separated from them both, without a clue what was going on. I thought he was going to die from the sheer panic of being separated from his grandchildren. I was locked up for about 2 and half days. He was released partway through day 2. He literally cried and shook uncontrollably for the whole time he was locked up with me. It was disgusting. It later transpired that everyone who was locked up in the same Police Training HQ as me was released without charge yet still deported all the same. I was flown back to the UK, handcuffed to a Belgian police officer for doing absolutely nothing wrong. It was a disgrace, but no-one wanted to know, least of all those in positions of authority within the police and government. I would never dream of travelling to watch England again and have taken little interest in the National Team ever since that day. Seemingly, events in Marseille have similar parallels. Just noticed I called you Paul above, Dave for which apologies. Premature senility ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/4tzqvp1fxEemag_TAXLJ.gif) probably because I also replied to a post from Paul Spencer) No offence taken! ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif) EDIT - The really sad thing is that my 8 year old is a football nut and surprisingly, given I'm not really bothered about watching England anymore, he's England mad as well as Stoke mad. He was absolutely gutted when Russia equalised (on the brink of tears) on Saturday and he asked loads of times if we could go to France to watch a game. He's seen the coverage of the trouble on the TV and isn't so keen now.
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on Jun 13, 2016 14:27:33 GMT
|
|
|
Post by dirtygary69 on Jun 13, 2016 14:47:28 GMT
Dunno if it's me (and I'm not defending them as lobbing anything around is fucking stupid) but a prison sentence for throwing a plastic bottle? I'm sure somebody will point out the intricacies of the charges and why but seems harsh to me, as foolish as they were.
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on Jun 13, 2016 14:50:58 GMT
Dunno if it's me (and I'm not defending them as lobbing anything around is fucking stupid) but a prison sentence for throwing a plastic bottle? I'm sure somebody will point out the intricacies of the charges and why but seems harsh to me, as foolish as they were. Doesn't surprise me. They'll throw the book at the English fans while allowing the Rooskies to go round smashing up random scarfers who aren't even there to fight. What do the police do? Prosecute England fans. What do UEFA do? Threaten to kick England out. The whole thing fucking stinks. Next tournament, we should allow those 2000 English fans who handed in their passports to go over and defend some of the innocent people getting fucking battered because the police won't do jack shit.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jun 13, 2016 15:27:31 GMT
Just noticed I called you Paul above, Dave for which apologies. Premature senility ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/4tzqvp1fxEemag_TAXLJ.gif) probably because I also replied to a post from Paul Spencer) No offence taken! ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif) EDIT - The really sad thing is that my 8 year old is a football nut and surprisingly, given I'm not really bothered about watching England anymore, he's England mad as well as Stoke mad. He was absolutely gutted when Russia equalised (on the brink of tears) on Saturday and he asked loads of times if we could go to France to watch a game. He's seen the coverage of the trouble on the TV and isn't so keen now. It is all about wrong place at the wrong time. We were in the old port at Marseille on Saturday afternoon and despite the very large number of England and Russian fans around saw no trouble at all. Some loudish singing in one corner which we steered clear of but that's no different from Stoke fans at an away game. Called at the fans embassy where the team told me things were fairly quiet. Walked to ground taking a meal outside at a cafe on the way - again saw no trouble. Saw the problems at the final whistle from the other end of the ground but couldn't really make out what was going on. Returned to the City centre on the Met. - again saw nothing. If I hadn't seen the media and social media coverage and someone had asked me if there had been any trouble, my answer would have been 'no' !
|
|
|
Post by PotterLog on Jun 13, 2016 15:27:59 GMT
Uefa would be screwed without England, am I right in saying that a few years back there was talk of England leaving UEFA and setting up our own organisation? Something along those lines anyway, you would assume we would do this if kicked out. At the end of the day different nationals will be charged differently by their respective countries for the same offence in the same place, how can that be right? Our country would come down like a tonne of bricks on our own whilst they get slapped wrists, but then that sounds about right One particularly pertinent point is that there are over 2000 banning orders in place for England's most notorious past offenders, preventing them from travelling to tournaments. How many equivalent bans for Russian fans? Zero.
|
|
|
Post by Laughing Gravy on Jun 13, 2016 15:40:25 GMT
Dunno if it's me (and I'm not defending them as lobbing anything around is fucking stupid) but a prison sentence for throwing a plastic bottle? I'm sure somebody will point out the intricacies of the charges and why but seems harsh to me, as foolish as they were. Ah but you forget that the Courts, FA, UEFA, FIFA, Governments of all hues are all the same sort of people. They don't give a flying fart about justice just in making a statement that can be beamed round the world showing how tough they are on Footbal 'thugs'. I equate it with a footballer being sent off for retaliation wheras the player who caused the retaliation the first place gets off scott free.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Jun 13, 2016 15:48:59 GMT
No offence taken! ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif) EDIT - The really sad thing is that my 8 year old is a football nut and surprisingly, given I'm not really bothered about watching England anymore, he's England mad as well as Stoke mad. He was absolutely gutted when Russia equalised (on the brink of tears) on Saturday and he asked loads of times if we could go to France to watch a game. He's seen the coverage of the trouble on the TV and isn't so keen now. It is all about wrong place at the wrong time. We were in the old port at Marseille on Saturday afternoon and despite the very large number of England and Russian fans around saw no trouble at all. Some loudish singing in one corner which we steered clear of but that's no different from Stoke fans at an away game. Called at the fans embassy where the team told me things were fairly quiet. Walked to ground taking a meal outside at a cafe on the way - again saw no trouble. Saw the problems at the final whistle from the other end of the ground but couldn't really make out what was going on. Returned to the City centre on the Met. - again saw nothing. If I hadn't seen the media and social media coverage and someone had asked me if there had been any trouble, my answer would have been 'no' ! Glad you had an enjoyable and safe trip. The problem I found with England was that you just couldn't tell who the trouble makers were and ultimately, some of the trouble we saw was as a result of England fans incapable of putting their club rivalries to one side. As we travel away with Stoke all the time, you can walk into a pub, see certain faces and know to turn around and head elsewhere. With England, that isn't possible. Hence our Europa league trips to notorious trouble spots in Split and Istanbul (even Kiev to a lesser extent) were trouble free and hugely enjoyable experiences. EDIT - Sadly, Euro 2000 put me off England for life. Maybe experiences such as your own and my little lads clear desire to go and watch England at home and abroad, will rekindle some of that desire to watch our National Team again.
|
|
|
Post by ysc1 on Jun 13, 2016 20:32:19 GMT
Uefa would be screwed without England, am I right in saying that a few years back there was talk of England leaving UEFA and setting up our own organisation? Something along those lines anyway, you would assume we would do this if kicked out. At the end of the day different nationals will be charged differently by their respective countries for the same offence in the same place, how can that be right? Our country would come down like a tonne of bricks on our own whilst they get slapped wrists, but then that sounds about right One particularly pertinent point is that there are over 2000 banning orders in place for England's most notorious past offenders, preventing them from travelling to tournaments. How many equivalent bans for Russian fans? Zero. Exactly, different ball game if banning orders werent in place
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 13, 2016 20:53:11 GMT
One particularly pertinent point is that there are over 2000 banning orders in place for England's most notorious past offenders, preventing them from travelling to tournaments. How many equivalent bans for Russian fans? Zero. Exactly, different ball game if banning orders werent in place I'm pretty sure that wasn't the point he was making mate.
|
|
|
Post by mrred on Jun 14, 2016 8:26:13 GMT
Just like to pose this to the misserable bastards on here that feel it necessary to post nothing but bile when it comes to Vale. ![](https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13445730_10209826949249727_203426316990716935_n.jpg?oh=e758cc4dbf68177faa66974884a32126&oe=5801A512)
|
|
|
Post by dirtygary69 on Jun 14, 2016 8:39:22 GMT
Just like to pose this to the misserable bastards on here that feel it necessary to post nothing but bile when it comes to Vale. ![](https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13445730_10209826949249727_203426316990716935_n.jpg?oh=e758cc4dbf68177faa66974884a32126&oe=5801A512) To be honest, mate, we're from the same city. There's no real hatred there.
|
|
|
Post by ryan4england on Jun 14, 2016 8:55:31 GMT
Swarming them is a good idea, set the bait and lie in wait. I've seen clips where these dicks are down a narrow street outnumbering English only to realise there are more English coming around the corner. They arnt so brave or tough against equal numbers from what I've seen
|
|
|
Post by senojbor on Jun 14, 2016 15:37:42 GMT
Russia should be thrown out of the tournament. Worse scenes of violence I've ever seen.
|
|
|
Post by scfc1234 on Jun 15, 2016 8:05:11 GMT
I'm out there with a few mates and its been pretty bad, especially in Marseille, we are moving onto Lille today so will be interesting how it is! We recorded a podcast Monday morning taking through our experiences of the tournament so far, have a listen below, its not all been bad but the fighting has overshadowed the general enjoyment of the tournament; greattouchforabiglad.podomatic.com/entry/2016-06-13T02_41_56-07_00
|
|