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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2016 20:28:26 GMT
Some of the video's knocking around are horrific. It's like going back 20+ years or more.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2016 20:36:09 GMT
Euros Italy 1980 Turin (Belgium riot , but so much more than just that ) Turin scary, scary , stuff came at a time when FV was at its height domestically , resulting in thousands turning their backs on the game..though interestingly many have rewritten their history as though they stuck around Turin , Italians weopanary included knives , cleavers , chains and machetes all on open display in broad day light..culminated in the riot at the game v Belguim .....followed by the game v Italy in the same ground a few days later ..and ended with Spain in Naples whole country it seemed were hunting England fans down after the 1st game killed England's family support stone dead for 10 years , until ironically Gazza cried in the same city and all the mums fell in love with him or wanted to mother him..and all of a sudden it was ok to be a England fan again for those that wish they were there..don't.you missed nothing ...it was bad, I mean really bad edit to add the attendance at the Belguim game was 15,000..and practically everyone was all on the one unsegregated end
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2016 20:45:49 GMT
Some of the video's knocking around are horrific. It's like going back 20+ years or more. Thing is, in the 80s and 90s there was almost an unwritten code understood by every 'firm', certainly in this country and pretty much across the continent. Scarfers and general fans were left alone Kids,women and families were left alone If someone was down they were left alone And anyone helping an injured party were left alone. There were a good few years when brandishing a knife was frowned upon (a rule overlooked by scousers) That's the way it was, everyone knew the rules. These Russians have gone beyond that now, almost like they'd be happy to kill someone.
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Post by clintonbaptiste on Jun 12, 2016 22:56:38 GMT
The Russians wouldn't have had it quite so easy 20 years ago, but they are snide, nasty cunts who don't just want a row, they want to seriously hurt people.
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Post by njpotter on Jun 12, 2016 23:03:54 GMT
East European ultras are absolutely fucking insane. They're all big as shit, tough men. I know in Poland boxing promoters actually recruit the best fighting hooligans and turn them into professionals.
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Post by Northy on Jun 13, 2016 5:35:01 GMT
Whenever I hear of/see hooligans on the TV, I think of this lot..... Quality Jonny the brains
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Post by apb1 on Jun 13, 2016 7:59:00 GMT
Some of the video's knocking around are horrific. It's like going back 20+ years or more. Thing is, in the 80s and 90s there was almost an unwritten code understood by every 'firm', certainly in this country and pretty much across the continent. Scarfers and general fans were left alone Kids,women and families were left alone If someone was down they were left alone And anyone helping an injured party were left alone. There were a good few years when brandishing a knife was frowned upon (a rule overlooked by scousers) That's the way it was, everyone knew the rules. These Russians have gone beyond that now, almost like they'd be happy to kill someone. I think that's stretching it a little. I have never been anything but a 'general fan' and hooliganism was terrifying to me back then. And I've seen plenty of violations of this code especially the one about leaving people when they were down. Just because some Russians are even more scary don't make out like our hooligans were choirboys. We are detested because of what happened back then, and innocent fans are being targeted because of the reputation our fans worked so hard to develop.
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Post by agingerstokie on Jun 13, 2016 8:31:51 GMT
Quite insightful reading all the replies, as horrifying as it is
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Post by Fenparkpotter on Jun 13, 2016 8:42:28 GMT
There was once upon a time, even during some of our (albeit more recent) darker days of hooliganism, that I lived by the belief that "if you want to avoid trouble, you can".
Having seen videos of people being attacked in the street for wearing an England shirt, being attacked sitting in a bar having a beer and being charged IN THE STADIUM, this is a different level of violence.
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Post by Veritas on Jun 13, 2016 9:45:41 GMT
I think there is a high probability of more trouble later this week and UEFA under pressure from the French government will jump at the chance to kick out both England and Russia, and to be honest who could blame them although it was Russians who were the instigators on Saturday the trouble over the previous two days had already put England in the frame.
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Post by stokie197 on Jun 13, 2016 10:10:54 GMT
It's the groups of seasoned travellers, 5/6 blokes who go off the beaten track and look to blend in with the locals and immerse themselves in the local city that I fear for, they're the ones who will get hurt if they just happen to take a wrong turning and come across these Eastern European mentalists. It's generally not the mouthy bastards playing up for the camera that get hurt when things get really nasty, I speak of someone who watched England in Russia and can honestly say I was as nervous as any game I've ever been that day, made the Zulu Warriors look like Primary school teachers..... Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/257911/hooliganism-france-worse-tournament#ixzz4BS8aAErvi was there that day in Moscow we were made to walk to the stadium from the underground one of the most scariest places I have ever been to I will not go again
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jun 13, 2016 10:16:53 GMT
It's the groups of seasoned travellers, 5/6 blokes who go off the beaten track and look to blend in with the locals and immerse themselves in the local city that I fear for, they're the ones who will get hurt if they just happen to take a wrong turning and come across these Eastern European mentalists. It's generally not the mouthy bastards playing up for the camera that get hurt when things get really nasty, I speak of someone who watched England in Russia and can honestly say I was as nervous as any game I've ever been that day, made the Zulu Warriors look like Primary school teachers..... Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/257911/hooliganism-france-worse-tournament#ixzz4BS8aAErvi was there that day in Moscow we were made to walk to the stadium from the underground one of the most scariest places I have ever been to I will not go again I haven't followed England or been particularly interested in England since my own experience during Euro 2000. Aided and abetted by Belgian police, the Turks and local hooligans were pretty much given free reign to intimidate, target and ambush England fans whenever they felt like it. Throw in a proportion of knob head England fans who for the most part couldn't or wouldn't put their club allegiances to one side and it was a recipe for disaster for normal football loving folk such as myself. I spent 3 days locked up before being deported with my car, passport and all my belongings left behind in Belgium for no other reason than I was an Englishman in right place at the wrong time. The street back to our hotel was blocked off so we settled down in the nearest McDonalds only to be moved on by Belgian police and put into a pub, that 30 minutes later, was tier gassed with everyone in there, including an American chap who knew fuck all about football, being locked up and deported back to Manchester or Stanstead. I suspect from what I've seen and heard in France, that pretty much the same thing is happening here and as you say, being an innocent football loving traveller is arguably more dangerous than being a bone fide football hooligan.
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Post by ryan4england on Jun 13, 2016 10:36:38 GMT
Uefa would be screwed without England, am I right in saying that a few years back there was talk of England leaving UEFA and setting up our own organisation? Something along those lines anyway, you would assume we would do this if kicked out.
At the end of the day different nationals will be charged differently by their respective countries for the same offence in the same place, how can that be right? Our country would come down like a tonne of bricks on our own whilst they get slapped wrists, but then that sounds about right
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Post by stokie197 on Jun 13, 2016 10:42:08 GMT
dave as you say its just not worth the hassle I have travelled all over the world watching England as a fan and that day was like no other and I can only see it getting worse
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2016 11:02:55 GMT
England fans without tickets told to go to Lille to watch it. Russia play in Lille the day before. Are they stupid??
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Post by unknown182 on Jun 13, 2016 11:19:28 GMT
A russian politician has come out and said he's all for the fighting and that the russians ahould keep it up. I don't have the direct quote because I'm on my phone.
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Post by Ayupshag on Jun 13, 2016 11:24:42 GMT
What if the FA counteracted UEFAs threat of expulsion by saying something along the lines of, If our supporters aren't better protected in the stadium we will withdraw from the competition? I don't know, just a thought
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2016 11:29:08 GMT
It's the groups of seasoned travellers, 5/6 blokes who go off the beaten track and look to blend in with the locals and immerse themselves in the local city that I fear for, they're the ones who will get hurt if they just happen to take a wrong turning and come across these Eastern European mentalists. It's generally not the mouthy bastards playing up for the camera that get hurt when things get really nasty, I speak of someone who watched England in Russia and can honestly say I was as nervous as any game I've ever been that day, made the Zulu Warriors look like Primary school teachers..... Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/257911/hooliganism-france-worse-tournament#ixzz4BS8aAErvi was there that day in Moscow we were made to walk to the stadium from the underground one of the most scariest places I have ever been to I will not go again I haven't followed England or been particularly interested in England since my own experience during Euro 2000. Aided and abetted by Belgian police, the Turks and local hooligans were pretty much given free reign to intimidate, target and ambush England fans whenever they felt like it. Throw in a proportion of knob head England fans who for the most part couldn't or wouldn't put their club allegiances to one side and it was a recipe for disaster for normal football loving folk such as myself. I spent 3 days locked up before being deported with my car, passport and all my belongings left behind in Belgium for no other reason than I was an Englishman in right place at the wrong time. The street back to our hotel was blocked off so we settled down in the nearest McDonalds only to be moved on by Belgian police and put into a pub, that 30 minutes later, was tier gassed with everyone in there, including an American chap who knew fuck all about football, being locked up and deported back to Manchester or Stanstead. I suspect from what I've seen and heard in France, that pretty much the same thing is happening here and as you say, being an innocent football loving traveller is arguably more dangerous than being a bone fide football hooligan. And to cap it all off Dave the maid robbed some of our belongings from the hotel but left my Stoke top to add insult to injury!
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jun 13, 2016 11:32:49 GMT
I haven't followed England or been particularly interested in England since my own experience during Euro 2000. Aided and abetted by Belgian police, the Turks and local hooligans were pretty much given free reign to intimidate, target and ambush England fans whenever they felt like it. Throw in a proportion of knob head England fans who for the most part couldn't or wouldn't put their club allegiances to one side and it was a recipe for disaster for normal football loving folk such as myself. I spent 3 days locked up before being deported with my car, passport and all my belongings left behind in Belgium for no other reason than I was an Englishman in right place at the wrong time. The street back to our hotel was blocked off so we settled down in the nearest McDonalds only to be moved on by Belgian police and put into a pub, that 30 minutes later, was tier gassed with everyone in there, including an American chap who knew fuck all about football, being locked up and deported back to Manchester or Stanstead. I suspect from what I've seen and heard in France, that pretty much the same thing is happening here and as you say, being an innocent football loving traveller is arguably more dangerous than being a bone fide football hooligan. And to cap it all off Dave the maid robbed some of our belongings from the hotel but left my Stoke top to add insult to injury! Happy days. We can laugh about it now!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2016 11:33:29 GMT
What if the FA counteracted UEFAs threat of expulsion by saying something along the lines of, If our supporters aren't better protected in the stadium we will withdraw from the competition? I don't know, just a thought They should threaten legal action if the supporters aren't protected.
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Post by stokester1989 on Jun 13, 2016 11:38:50 GMT
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Post by stokester1989 on Jun 13, 2016 11:39:52 GMT
Update*** not a stoke fan but from stoke apparently
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jun 13, 2016 11:42:35 GMT
This the statement which the FSF has issued. I will also post the statement from our colleagues in the Russian fans embassy : In Marseille, England fans were subjected to numerous pre-planned, organised and brutal attacks on several occasions in the days preceding the game against Russia, in the stadium itself, and after the match. Dozens of England fans have been injured, some seriously. Many more, including women and children, have been affected by tear gas or water cannons deployed by the police. It has meant for many a very unpleasant beginning to what should be a thoroughly enjoyable carnival of football. With a few honourable exceptions, the knee-jerk first response of many in the media and in politics has been once again to cast blame on us, lazily or to suit their own agenda falling back on out-of-date stereotypes about English hooligans abroad. Whatever the history – and there has been plenty in years gone by which earned us a negative reputation – this time, those accusations are wide of the mark. We’re not claiming that all England supporters are angels. While the big majority of us come and party in the real spirit of football, making new friends as we go, there are still a number among us who drink maybe more than is wise, or who sing songs that aren’t to everyone’s taste. But what we can say with confidence is that to the best of our knowledge, none of the many violent incidents that took place in Marseille during our time there were initiated by England fans. We have witnessed groups coming together – sometimes Russian hooligans, sometimes Marseille ultras, sometimes simply gangs of local youths – with the deliberate aim of attacking England fans eating and drinking in and outside bars and restaurants or making our way to the game. Some of them have been tooled up, some of them have had their faces masked, but all of them have been intent on starting trouble and initiating violence. The attacks have often been brutal, and in that context, we can hardly condemn those England fans who were left with little option but to defend themselves and in some cases their families. But of course those are often the images that end up on TV and are used out of context to demonise England fans. The media talk of “clashes” between fans, as if there were two groups determined to confront each other. That wasn’t what happened here. These were cowardly attacks on groups that included families, on innocent people minding their own business and trying to enjoy the tournament. That kind of behaviour and its perpetrators have no place in football, and it’s with these people that the blame for the Marseille events clearly belongs. That these attacks were allowed to happen at all raises crucial questions about the role of the French police. Surely the first responsibility of a police force in a country hosting a tournament is to make sure that those who have come to enjoy it can do so in safety, protected of course as far as possible from terrorism, but also from attacks by local thugs or visiting hooligans? And yet we have witnessed these groups come together to prepare their assaults on crowds of fans while the police watch and let it happen. If they can see a potential problem developing before their eyes, why do they do nothing to stop them getting near their target? Time after time, the first intervention of the French police has been to use tear gas and then water cannons. It’s in the nature of tear gas that it doesn’t discriminate between perpetrators and passers-by, between attackers and victims, and it often lands when the villains of the piece have already run off – leaving those who have just been attacked or in the vicinity with eyes stinging and streaming, and struggling to breathe. The other consequence of this police approach is that while it may look dramatic and effective, with people running for cover, it actually leaves the hooligans free to fight again another day. None of them are arrested, they get to slope off and re-group ready for their next assault, or to travel to their next venue. All the trouble on the streets of Marseille was then followed by the appalling scenes inside the ground at the end of the game: illegal pyrotechnics, a huge banger, political and far-right flags, and then finally the frontal assault on England fans in the adjacent blocks – a neutral sector containing also French fans and many family groups. All of it entirely unacceptable. At Euro 2000, the England team were threatened with exclusion from the tournament because of the behaviour of our fans – and yet the problems we admittedly did generate then were small beer compared to what has unfolded with the Russian hooligans over the last few days. We opposed the expulsion of England from Euro 2000 on the grounds that to expel the team would be to punish the majority of fans as much, and arguably even more, that the guilty minority – and we would argue the same principle applies to any threat to expel Russia from the tournament now. Any sanction should isolate and punish the perpetrators; the majority of fans are part of the solution, not the problem. One significant difference however is that after Euro 2000 and that expulsion threat, there was a concerted effort in England, involving everyone across the game including government, police, the FA and fans’ organisations, to address the problems that we had. This resulted among other things in new laws and the creation of football banning orders, and it worked: the result has been, over time, a huge improvement in the behaviour and reputation of England fans, which has seen us rightly praised on more than one occasion for our contribution to a tournament’s atmosphere. If Russia wants to be taken seriously as a football nation, competing in and indeed even hosting major international tournaments, then surely there has to be some serious action taken within Russia to stop their thug element carrying out these cowardly violent attacks? As things stand now, the prospect of a World Cup in Russia looks less appealing than ever. Maybe that’s for the future. But now, with immediate effect, we need the French authorities to ensure that England fans are able to enjoy Euro 2016 in the carnival mood at which we excel, safe from aggression and encouraged to party. - See more at: www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/fsf-statement-attacks-on-english-fans-in-marseille-euro2016#sthash.Tf3IGHLf.dpuf
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Post by Bick on Jun 13, 2016 11:43:09 GMT
Police presence needs upping significantly.
I'm not sure how much English fans are to blame - because we are looking at it through the eyes of the English media.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jun 13, 2016 11:45:42 GMT
As promised the statement from our friends in the Russian fans embassy
Statement from the Fans’ Embassy Russia:
“The Fans’ Embassy Russia team expresses its regret about the situation with riots involving Russian fans in Marseille. We strongly believe that such behaviour is not the norm for our citizens who are traveling to support the Russian national team in France. We are very sorry for those English people who have been injured and are now in hospital. We wish them the fastest recovery.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jun 13, 2016 11:56:27 GMT
This the statement which the FSF has issued. I will also post the statement from our colleagues in the Russian fans embassy : In Marseille, England fans were subjected to numerous pre-planned, organised and brutal attacks on several occasions in the days preceding the game against Russia, in the stadium itself, and after the match. Dozens of England fans have been injured, some seriously. Many more, including women and children, have been affected by tear gas or water cannons deployed by the police. It has meant for many a very unpleasant beginning to what should be a thoroughly enjoyable carnival of football. With a few honourable exceptions, the knee-jerk first response of many in the media and in politics has been once again to cast blame on us, lazily or to suit their own agenda falling back on out-of-date stereotypes about English hooligans abroad. Whatever the history – and there has been plenty in years gone by which earned us a negative reputation – this time, those accusations are wide of the mark. We’re not claiming that all England supporters are angels. While the big majority of us come and party in the real spirit of football, making new friends as we go, there are still a number among us who drink maybe more than is wise, or who sing songs that aren’t to everyone’s taste. But what we can say with confidence is that to the best of our knowledge, none of the many violent incidents that took place in Marseille during our time there were initiated by England fans. We have witnessed groups coming together – sometimes Russian hooligans, sometimes Marseille ultras, sometimes simply gangs of local youths – with the deliberate aim of attacking England fans eating and drinking in and outside bars and restaurants or making our way to the game. Some of them have been tooled up, some of them have had their faces masked, but all of them have been intent on starting trouble and initiating violence. The attacks have often been brutal, and in that context, we can hardly condemn those England fans who were left with little option but to defend themselves and in some cases their families. But of course those are often the images that end up on TV and are used out of context to demonise England fans. The media talk of “clashes” between fans, as if there were two groups determined to confront each other. That wasn’t what happened here. These were cowardly attacks on groups that included families, on innocent people minding their own business and trying to enjoy the tournament. That kind of behaviour and its perpetrators have no place in football, and it’s with these people that the blame for the Marseille events clearly belongs. That these attacks were allowed to happen at all raises crucial questions about the role of the French police. Surely the first responsibility of a police force in a country hosting a tournament is to make sure that those who have come to enjoy it can do so in safety, protected of course as far as possible from terrorism, but also from attacks by local thugs or visiting hooligans? And yet we have witnessed these groups come together to prepare their assaults on crowds of fans while the police watch and let it happen. If they can see a potential problem developing before their eyes, why do they do nothing to stop them getting near their target? Time after time, the first intervention of the French police has been to use tear gas and then water cannons. It’s in the nature of tear gas that it doesn’t discriminate between perpetrators and passers-by, between attackers and victims, and it often lands when the villains of the piece have already run off – leaving those who have just been attacked or in the vicinity with eyes stinging and streaming, and struggling to breathe. The other consequence of this police approach is that while it may look dramatic and effective, with people running for cover, it actually leaves the hooligans free to fight again another day. None of them are arrested, they get to slope off and re-group ready for their next assault, or to travel to their next venue. All the trouble on the streets of Marseille was then followed by the appalling scenes inside the ground at the end of the game: illegal pyrotechnics, a huge banger, political and far-right flags, and then finally the frontal assault on England fans in the adjacent blocks – a neutral sector containing also French fans and many family groups. All of it entirely unacceptable. At Euro 2000, the England team were threatened with exclusion from the tournament because of the behaviour of our fans – and yet the problems we admittedly did generate then were small beer compared to what has unfolded with the Russian hooligans over the last few days. We opposed the expulsion of England from Euro 2000 on the grounds that to expel the team would be to punish the majority of fans as much, and arguably even more, that the guilty minority – and we would argue the same principle applies to any threat to expel Russia from the tournament now. Any sanction should isolate and punish the perpetrators; the majority of fans are part of the solution, not the problem. One significant difference however is that after Euro 2000 and that expulsion threat, there was a concerted effort in England, involving everyone across the game including government, police, the FA and fans’ organisations, to address the problems that we had. This resulted among other things in new laws and the creation of football banning orders, and it worked: the result has been, over time, a huge improvement in the behaviour and reputation of England fans, which has seen us rightly praised on more than one occasion for our contribution to a tournament’s atmosphere. If Russia wants to be taken seriously as a football nation, competing in and indeed even hosting major international tournaments, then surely there has to be some serious action taken within Russia to stop their thug element carrying out these cowardly violent attacks? As things stand now, the prospect of a World Cup in Russia looks less appealing than ever. Maybe that’s for the future. But now, with immediate effect, we need the French authorities to ensure that England fans are able to enjoy Euro 2016 in the carnival mood at which we excel, safe from aggression and encouraged to party. - See more at: www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/fsf-statement-attacks-on-english-fans-in-marseille-euro2016#sthash.Tf3IGHLf.dpufI find this FSF statement really interesting, particularly the references to Euro 2000. I tried to explain to various police authorities and political party representatives that something very similar actually took place during Euro 2000, where both Turkish and local hooligans were aided and abetted by the Belgian police in targeting and attacking innocent England supporters. No-one wanted to listen. It went "against the grain" and it was far easier to blame English hooligans. For whatever reason, perhaps as a means to credit themselves on work done to rid our game of hooligan elements, seemingly the various bodies are only too willing to accept that innocent English fans are being targeted by both visiting and local hooligans. I don't doubt it's true but it is really interesting how we are prepared to accept this as being true now whereas 16 years ago, we weren't.
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Post by Boothen on Jun 13, 2016 11:58:42 GMT
What an absolute fucking tool.
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Post by foster on Jun 13, 2016 12:01:55 GMT
That's a pretty impressive shiner tbh.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Jun 13, 2016 12:03:31 GMT
That is a fucking shit beard, if you can call it that.
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Post by LDE76 on Jun 13, 2016 12:07:14 GMT
Going by his Twitter handle, are we to assume that he's a Leeds fan?
He looks like a crew-member from Das Boot.
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