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Post by strettonstokie on Apr 28, 2016 10:47:21 GMT
Dont think he will go but you never know if he did id like the watford manager here or rafa, hasnt he got a clause that means if newcastle go down hes free to leave?
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 28, 2016 10:47:52 GMT
Would Everton's traditional size actually count for anything when trying to sign players from the perceived next level and making Hughes' job easier? Could they even offer him a wage rise? Doubtful. I think both Stoke and Everton would come up short in trying to sign genuinely top players that the elite clubs are in for. It's a fact of life for them that they're resigned to shopping from the same supermarkets as us for the foreseeable future. And even their moneybags new investor is only worth a third of Coatesy. It's not as if they're operating on a different level to us financially at all. I'm struggling to see the attraction from his point of view. When John Cross throws around the term 'huge club' in his article, it's not clear how that would actually show itself in practice in making Hughes' job more attractive. They had the pulling power to sign Lukaku for £28million. Lennon chose them over us. they didn't have the "pulling power" really though did they? they'd had him on loan, he wanted to go back to chelsea and get a place in their side..for some unknown reason Mourinho didn't want him and they just happened to have £28mill from the sale of Fellaini so used it on him. they didn't even have any competition for his signature so it's not like Everton got him because of their prestige or anything like that. Lukaku wanted a shop window for bigger clubs that's all and Everton gave him that. he's said on countless occasions since being at Everton that he wants to play at the highest level for a Champions league side (which is whythere's been rumours in every transfer window since he joined Everton about him going...if they had "Pulling power" he'd be happy where he is and he blatantly never really has been). he'll be off in the summer no question. he didn't go because of pulling power, he went because they gave him a public platform, no other reason
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Post by cousindupree on Apr 28, 2016 10:50:11 GMT
I think the perception in the football world is that Everton are a bigger and more attractive club than Stoke, always have been and although I think we have got closer we can never match their fan base or wider appeal. If I was a player and had the choice of Everton or Stoke for the same wages I would look at Everton their history and current squad and choose them without any doubt. As for financial muscle its probably about the same although I wonder about Bet 365 desire to bankroll the club further. Hughes won't get a top 6 job without some degree of success in Europe and Hughes probably sees Stoke as a stepping stone to Top 6 clubs, question is whether Everton is a better bet and I think it is
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 28, 2016 10:52:28 GMT
Everton
Bigger Club – Tick More attractive club - Tick Better proposition for short/medium term success – Not convinced at all
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Post by chrisparker on Apr 28, 2016 10:52:39 GMT
Dont think he will go but you never know if he did id like the watford manager here or rafa, hasnt he got a clause that means if newcastle go down hes free to leave? Watford manager is a decent bloke but he's not a very good manager. They're one dimensional & just hoof the ball up the pitch to the 2 strikers. Plus they've been in appalling form since the start of the year. If you go to their forums, you'll see just how unsatisfied Watford fans are with his style of play.
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Post by cousindupree on Apr 28, 2016 10:54:17 GMT
Mick I agree if they lose Lukaku Stones and Barkley then you have a huge rebuilding exercise on your hands and even with a huge bankroll the job then becomes much less attractive.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 28, 2016 10:54:53 GMT
I think the perception in the football world is that Everton are a bigger and more attractive club than Stoke, always have been and although I think we have got closer we can never match their fan base or wider appeal. If I was a player and had the choice of Everton or Stoke for the same wages I would look at Everton their history and current squad and choose them without any doubt. As for financial muscle its probably about the same although I wonder about Bet 365 desire to bankroll the club further. Hughes won't get a top 6 job without some degree of success in Europe and Hughes probably sees Stoke as a stepping stone to Top 6 clubs, question is whether Everton is a better bet and I think it is their current squad???? most players would look at the squad they'll have when they arrive and they'll be actually playing alongside (i.e. start of the season) so you can take Stones, Mirallas, Barkley, Lukaku and quite possibly Deolefeu out straight away. in terms of their squad being currently better than ours...that i'd dispute anyway as it happens. they have a couple of big name quality players who have all said they want to play for bigger clubs. apart from those players, the rest are absolutely bang average! out of interest, how is Everton a better bet at europe than us after us finishing higher than them for 2 years now and them being pretty much guaranteed to lose their better players in the summer? genuine question...you can't base it on simply what they did in the 80s surely????
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 28, 2016 10:56:09 GMT
Mick I agree if they lose Lukaku Stones and Barkley then you have a huge rebuilding exercise on your hands and even with a huge bankroll the job then becomes much less attractive. in which case ignore my last post as we seemed to have "crossed in the post" as it were
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 11:01:37 GMT
If Everton were in Europe I think he'd go as it's clear to me that's what Mark Hughes wants.
As it is we are very much an unfinished project and still in most people's opinion have a lot of growing room and despite this season being a bit of a set back it's rare for any push for the top to be a continual straight line job.
Weather he has the backing of Peter Coates, publicly and financially is the key for me as he certainly has the backing of most Stoke Fans.
I hope he stays for a long time he could be the start of a dynasty at Stoke the like we haven't seen since Waddington.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 28, 2016 11:03:34 GMT
Everton being newly minted might make a difference.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 28, 2016 11:07:33 GMT
Everton being newly minted might make a difference. Would he have the complete freedom to say yes or no on transfers he seemingly has here? Who is this Moshiri fella? Has he the potential to be a lunatic?
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 28, 2016 11:07:34 GMT
Everton being newly minted might make a difference. depends though doesn't it? they're newly minted from a bloke who put sod all into Arsenal when he was with them, his stake was brought at a knockdown price of only £30m and the initial agreement is that his investment will largely be for a new stadium rather than personnel anyway. it's nothing like a Man City or Chelsea being newly minted and just buying up every quality player like it was a game of FIFA to try to take the Prem by storm
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Post by scfcwebby on Apr 28, 2016 11:16:34 GMT
Everton being newly minted might make a difference. Would he have the complete freedom to say yes or no on transfers he seemingly has here? Who is this Moshiri fella? Has he the potential to be a lunatic? I have heard from an Everton fan that I know who genuinely knows a couple of people in the club that he isn't going to be investing mega bucks into transfers and only wants investment in the club itself! How true that is i dont know
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 11:17:56 GMT
Everton being newly minted might make a difference. Would he have the complete freedom to say yes or no on transfers he seemingly has here? Who is this Moshiri fella? Has he the potential to be a lunatic? Moshiri has links to a certain Kia Joorabchian.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 28, 2016 11:18:07 GMT
You'd have to reckon on him still being ambitious and you'd have to reckon on him having too much baggage at the moment to be considered for a "Top" club (Chelsea, United etc).
Logically his next move is to one of the "big" clubs that are at just the level below. You can argue about the stats recent form etc - but the attraction is the name, the size of the city, who your neighbours are and so whoo you get compared to, the reach, the crowd, the media etc - and not league position. Leicester are not a big club, Newcastle are - that's why Benitez went there - he would never have considered Norwich who are in a similar position.
Everton are in that category and sometimes it's just about timing - cos if we have a shot season next season then the cahnce may be gone.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 11:19:58 GMT
Mick I agree if they lose Lukaku Stones and Barkley then you have a huge rebuilding exercise on your hands and even with a huge bankroll the job then becomes much less attractive. Is it much difference than the job he has here? If he loses those three at Everton he'll have well over 100M in the bank to replace them with plus TV money. Within the next year here he'll have to replace Whelan, find a top drawer striker, possibly replace Wolly* and Shawcross and even Butland. That's before you look at Arnautovic and possibly finding another winger on top. What about Glen Jonhson at right back? With nothing more than what we'd get for Butland and Arnautovic (12.5M release clause?) plus TV money. I'd say he's got the bigger job on here to be honest. Everton are a much bigger pull than us, let's not kid ourselves and be daft. * if he leaves for Monchengladbach...
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Post by maxdecarlo on Apr 28, 2016 11:20:32 GMT
into 12 s from 25s on betfair now.................
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Post by algor on Apr 28, 2016 11:24:22 GMT
Would he have the complete freedom to say yes or no on transfers he seemingly has here? Who is this Moshiri fella? Has he the potential to be a lunatic? Moshiri has links to a certain Kia Joorabchian. This is true, he is Kia's right hand man and together they tried unsuccessfully to take over Arsenal. Kia is the richest person in Russia so if he eventually joins Everton then the Money would follow. The guy is a complete a complete Gangster and did hard time during the soviet era.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 28, 2016 11:24:51 GMT
Everton being newly minted might make a difference. depends though doesn't it? they're newly minted from a bloke who put sod all into Arsenal when he was with them, his stake was brought at a knockdown price of only £30m and the initial agreement is that his investment will largely be for a new stadium rather than personnel anyway. it's nothing like a Man City or Chelsea being newly minted and just buying up every quality player like it was a game of FIFA to try to take the Prem by storm It's not but with the TV money it should make a significant difference to them. They'll be stronger next year. I think if they really wanted Hughes he'd be tempted. I think they'll want a bigger name or the latest hot young thing though.
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Post by skip on Apr 28, 2016 11:32:46 GMT
If Hughes does a good job with us his stock will rise. He just has to believe that the Stoke project is worth sticking with and that comes down to the Chief Exec. and Coates.
I know people who are hugely ambitious who moved between organisations, and down to organisations perceived as being smaller, but they gain more control. Whether Everton are historically a 'bigger club' [brand] than us is a moot point but its much more than that, its knowing what the inner mechanics of a company are in the here and now, their five year plan and so on. Hughes is in a superb place to make a managerial legacy with us, it's whether he's supported and patient.
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Post by liamo on Apr 28, 2016 11:33:06 GMT
I really do worry if he leaves though, he's played a large part in why players chose to come here, we're still in transition and we're in a shit slump that could very well be with us until the end of the season
New manager coming in would have a huge job to do pre-season and would no doubt want to change our style again and thats before we even start looking to fill the gaps in playing personel, i know it's all ifs and buts at the moment but it could be potentially terrible for the club
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Post by wuzza on Apr 28, 2016 11:33:45 GMT
The Everton supporter base is such that a large percentage would be looking for a more 'prestigious' name than our Les! Can't help feeling the club would want to keep them onside with a fancy-dan appointment!
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Post by skip on Apr 28, 2016 11:35:12 GMT
I'll state that I think he will stay with us. And even allowing for frustrations and recent arse kickings, I hope he does.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 28, 2016 11:36:42 GMT
depends though doesn't it? they're newly minted from a bloke who put sod all into Arsenal when he was with them, his stake was brought at a knockdown price of only £30m and the initial agreement is that his investment will largely be for a new stadium rather than personnel anyway. it's nothing like a Man City or Chelsea being newly minted and just buying up every quality player like it was a game of FIFA to try to take the Prem by storm It's not but with the TV money it should make a significant difference to them. They'll be stronger next year. I think if they really wanted Hughes he'd be tempted. I think they'll want a bigger name or the latest hot young thing though. i don't think they'll get a bigger name to be honest Rob. this "big" club idea only lasts so long. in real terms they haven't been a "big" club (in terms of challenging for anything on a regular basis) for about 3 decades now. they've had a massive influx of cash for years now due to TV money in the same way all Prem teams have and they've done virtually bugger all with it (even Lukaku was only brought as they had the Fellaini money). i don't see anything to say they'll be stronger next year either...they'll lose their top players in the summer and even with that cash to spend it'll take a lot to convince quality players to join them when they have only average players left and they've done nothing but hover around mid table for the last couple of years. other "big" clubs who have underperformed (like Chelsea) are different in that they've consistently challenged for titles, won titles, had Champions league football for years and will also throw massive amounts of cash around to rebuild and prove to everyone how they intend to be a force again next year. Everton don't have any of that, literally all they have is the romanticised (and by now MASSIVELY out of date) draw of once being a "Big" club. Wolves were once a big club...Blackpool were...Villa were. you only keep that draw for big name, quality players if you keep it up though and you keep those big players at the club. Everton haven't kept it up (or even come close to replicating it) and won't hold onto their big players. i genuinely think it will get worse before it gets better for them.
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Post by werrington on Apr 28, 2016 11:40:15 GMT
Everton are one of the biggest clubs in Britain
Support history and tradition and throw in potential and you have a head turner
Take away the cash and they are bigger than Manchester city
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Post by ryan4england on Apr 28, 2016 11:44:06 GMT
Liverpool echo saying fans want a big name, Mancini being mentioned and the fans don't want moyes back.
Is Hughes a big name in management? Really?
If like Mancini at stoke
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 28, 2016 11:47:33 GMT
Everton are one of the biggest clubs in Britain Support history and tradition and throw in potential and you have a head turner Take away the cash and they are bigger than Manchester city but that cash is a far bigger head turner to a manager (and players) than a history of being good which you have to go back 30 years for wezza. the "second tier" of quality players that we get (arnie, shaq etc. i.e. not Champs league quality yet but far better than your average Prem journeyman) are looking to cubs like ours as a stepping stone. they want to be playing in a decent side where they will get noticed by the bigger clubs and have at least a chance of Europa league (or better in a good year) so they have a shop window. the reality is that a club who are finishing below mid table in successive years and will lose the only quality they currently have isn't going to be a big draw for anyone simply because of their "History" which hasn't been relevant since the 1980s. it's money and prospects nowadays....a proud history (which hasn't seen a trophy for over 20 years) means little in real terms when football is about money and glory nowadays. it's the reason why Leicester will get some decent names in the summer as well, those players won't be there for the long term of because of who the club is. they'll go because it's Champions league football and their face is on the big stage every other week
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 28, 2016 11:47:42 GMT
It's not but with the TV money it should make a significant difference to them. They'll be stronger next year. I think if they really wanted Hughes he'd be tempted. I think they'll want a bigger name or the latest hot young thing though. i don't think they'll get a bigger name to be honest Rob. this "big" club idea only lasts so long. in real terms they haven't been a "big" club (in terms of challenging for anything on a regular basis) for about 3 decades now. they've had a massive influx of cash for years now due to TV money in the same way all Prem teams have and they've done virtually bugger all with it (even Lukaku was only brought as they had the Fellaini money). i don't see anything to say they'll be stronger next year either...they'll lose their top players in the summer and even with that cash to spend it'll take a lot to convince quality players to join them when they have only average players left and they've done nothing but hover around mid table for the last couple of years. other "big" clubs who have underperformed (like Chelsea) are different in that they've consistently challenged for titles, won titles, had Champions league football for years and will also throw massive amounts of cash around to rebuild and prove to everyone how they intend to be a force again next year. Everton don't have any of that, literally all they have is the romanticised (and by now MASSIVELY out of date) draw of once being a "Big" club. Wolves were once a big club...Blackpool were...Villa were. you only keep that draw for big name, quality players if you keep it up though and you keep those big players at the club. Everton haven't kept it up (or even come close to replicating it) and won't hold onto their big players. i genuinely think it will get worse before it gets better for them. As long as they're in the Premier League and they're not having a Villa-sequel nightmare, they're a big club. By virtually any measure, they're a bigger club than us. Say they do lose their stars (and I think Barkley and maybe even Lukaku might stay another year); they've still got bags of talent in that squad for the right manager to work with. It's also disingenuous to suggest that they only have the 80s stuff going for them. They've been top half regulars for the last 10-15 years or so and finished 4th, 5th and 6th in that time.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 28, 2016 11:50:25 GMT
I really do worry if he leaves though, he's played a large part in why players chose to come here, we're still in transition and we're in a shit slump that could very well be with us until the end of the season New manager coming in would have a huge job to do pre-season and would no doubt want to change our style again and thats before we even start looking to fill the gaps in playing personel, i know it's all ifs and buts at the moment but it could be potentially terrible for the club He was never going to stay forever and to be honest the style needs changing (or the players to play it do) because it ain't been working for half a season now. I don't particularly want him to go - but if he wanted to I'd rather he got on with it. You have to trust that the ownership of the club is in safe hands and that the next appointment is a good fit just as Pulis was at the time and just as Hughes was at the time
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 28, 2016 11:51:57 GMT
Everton are a far bigger club than us. If we were competing with them for a player who didn't already play for us, I'd expect them to win all day every day if we were essentially offering the same wages.
However, having been inside our club, I don't think there would be that much of an attraction for a player or manager to leave Stoke and join Everton. As things stand, we can offer them everything that they can and in reality, probably a bit more besides. That may obviously change with this new input of money they've had.
Ryan Shawcross had the chance to leave for Everton and didn't entertain the idea. Unless he was under massive pressure from supporters or chairman, I don't think Mark Hughes would jump ship to Everton were he to be given the chance to do so.
EDIT - I haven't read the previous 5 pages to understand if this has actually been mooted elsewhere or if it is stupid messageboard speculation as normal!
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