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Post by cheekymatt71 on Apr 26, 2016 11:48:28 GMT
This is a big one for Mark Hughes to solve next season. I know Shaq has been hampered by injury this season, but for me he is so much less effective being put out on the right-wing in a 4-2-3-1.
Shaqiri needs to be able to drift inside and make through-balls as he did against Man City at home this season.
I think his position is best in the right of a 4-3-3 false-9 with the ability to drift inside
OR
4-2-3-1 in the central position behind the striker
For me he's just not a pure out-an-out winger and needs to be involved more centrally to be effective.
I can see him asking for a transfer if his role in the team doesnt change a bit next season. He is a top player and we need to get the best from the likes of him and Bojan CONSISTENTLY
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Post by chrisparker on Apr 26, 2016 11:51:33 GMT
He was playing as a winger in Inter & Bayern which is why he bought him ffs. He played in the number 10 role against Leicester & he was really poor. Shaqiri is at his best when he drifts inside from the wing poistions & plays through balls to the incoming Arnautovic, Bojan etc. It's these dual inward runs from both the left & right that's won us most of our games this season. In fact it's not just Shaq & Arnie, Walters has also started making these inward runs this season (and that's exactly how he scored against the likes of Watford & Norwich).
If there's been one effective attacking tactic we've adopted this season, it's this.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Apr 26, 2016 12:03:54 GMT
Yeah but thats one way Im talking about of getting the best from him.
He is nominally a right-winger BUT he's best when drifting inside.
Another option we have simply never tried is having Arnie & Shaq switch wings. Put him on the left for 20 minutes and let him cross with his left foot.
I just cant believe we have NEVER tried this during a game. Its so bloody obvious I could shake a big stick
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Post by borat on Apr 26, 2016 12:06:57 GMT
Before he signed I was told he's the alpine Messi, a class above and obviously played for Bayern Munich and Inter Milan so potentially world class. I couldn't have been more disappointed, for a big name he's easily been the biggest disappointment as an outfield player this season, 4/10 from me.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 26, 2016 12:08:19 GMT
I think I'm with Matt on this. He needs space to create. He's at his best when he's popping up all over the place (and he started that Leicester game really well).
Our system requires some real pace out wide and often looks more balanced when there's a striker like Odem or Walters out there.
Shaqiri is more of an orchestrator than an explosive speed merchant. The only trouble is we've got about five players whose best position is the role behind the striker.
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Post by kingdongstwin on Apr 26, 2016 12:09:48 GMT
I think Johnsons injury has affected his effectiveness.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Apr 26, 2016 12:13:07 GMT
If a big offer came in from China or the gulf that allwed us to recover our money on him I would take it to be honest , he has talent but I just dont see how he can physically compete consistently in this league add to that he seems to pick up a lot of pulls and strains.
Maybe a good pre season will get him back on track but he simply does not live up to the hype .
Odimwinge made more of an impact when he came from Cardiff than Shaq has as far as I can see
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Post by Gods on Apr 26, 2016 12:22:06 GMT
If a big offer came in from China or the gulf that allwed us to recover our money on him I would take it to be honest , he has talent but I just dont see how he can physically compete consistently in this league add to that he seems to pick up a lot of pulls and strains. Maybe a good pre season will get him back on track but he simply does not live up to the hype . Odimwinge made more of an impact when he came from Cardiff than Shaq has as far as I can see Yes but it's hard to see that happening, Coatesy will want his money back and he won't get it. There was close to £40m spent on Shaq, Jos and Imbula probably closer to £70m when you add in the wages over the contract periods, its just going to have to be made to work somehow I think, we've made our bed here. |
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Apr 26, 2016 12:24:56 GMT
I think I'm with Matt on this. He needs space to create. He's at his best when he's popping up all over the place (and he started that Leicester game really well). Our system requires some real pace out wide and often looks more balanced when there's a striker like Odem or Walters out there. Shaqiri is more of an orchestrator than an explosive speed merchant. The only trouble is we've got about five players whose best position is the role behind the striker. Shaqiri is perfectly good at playing in the wider role and to cut inside is always going to be his game. The problem he has had is that when Johnson got injured, he lost the overlapping full back that creates space for him to work in. I think Bardsley has been a decent enough covering full back, considering I don't think he is good enough overall, but he is no good at the attacking side of a full back's game these days, which means Shaqiri is doubled upon by the opposition, suffocating him from having any influence. He has been sub-par even with this excuse but I believe with Johnson back next season or with a new full back if necessary who can do the attacking side of the game as well as many other full backs in this league, he will be excellent. The goal scored against Chelsea at home in the league shows this with Johnson's overlap, Shaqiri's through ball to him and how it opened Chelsea up completely (albeit Chelsea as a whole have been shocking this season). Imagine him on the wing with someone like Kyle Walker or Seamus Coleman's attacking efforts outside him. |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 26, 2016 12:25:45 GMT
There's every chance all three will turn out to be brilliant signings for the club.
Imbula in particular is going to be a superstar and I could see us doubling our money no problem with the right coaching.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 26, 2016 12:26:58 GMT
I think I'm with Matt on this. He needs space to create. He's at his best when he's popping up all over the place (and he started that Leicester game really well). Our system requires some real pace out wide and often looks more balanced when there's a striker like Odem or Walters out there. Shaqiri is more of an orchestrator than an explosive speed merchant. The only trouble is we've got about five players whose best position is the role behind the striker. Shaqiri is perfectly good at playing in the wider role and to cut inside is always going to be his game. The problem he has had is that when Johnson got injured, he lost the overlapping full back that creates space for him to work in. I think Bardsley has been a decent enough covering full back, considering I don't think he is good enough overall, but he is no good at the attacking side of a full back's game these days, which means Shaqiri is doubled upon by the opposition, suffocating him from having any influence. He has been sub-par even with this excuse but I believe with Johnson back next season or with a new full back if necessary who can do the attacking side of the game as well as many other full backs in this league, he will be excellent. The goal scored against Chelsea at home in the league shows this with Johnson's overlap, Shaqiri's through ball to him and how it opened Chelsea up completely (albeit Chelsea as a whole have been shocking this season). Imagine him on the wing with someone like Kyle Walker or Seamus Coleman's attacking efforts outside him. There's something in that, but then he offers nothing defensively either, which is always going to be a bit of a problem when he's paired with a right back who also can't defend. |
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Apr 26, 2016 12:32:07 GMT
Shaqiri is perfectly good at playing in the wider role and to cut inside is always going to be his game. The problem he has had is that when Johnson got injured, he lost the overlapping full back that creates space for him to work in. I think Bardsley has been a decent enough covering full back, considering I don't think he is good enough overall, but he is no good at the attacking side of a full back's game these days, which means Shaqiri is doubled upon by the opposition, suffocating him from having any influence. He has been sub-par even with this excuse but I believe with Johnson back next season or with a new full back if necessary who can do the attacking side of the game as well as many other full backs in this league, he will be excellent. The goal scored against Chelsea at home in the league shows this with Johnson's overlap, Shaqiri's through ball to him and how it opened Chelsea up completely (albeit Chelsea as a whole have been shocking this season). Imagine him on the wing with someone like Kyle Walker or Seamus Coleman's attacking efforts outside him. There's something in that, but then he offers nothing defensively either, which is always going to be a bit of a problem when he's paired with a right back who also can't defend. I don't believe he offers nothing, he does attempt to cover defensively but he has never previously had to do so at clubs like Bayern and Inter where defending was barely a priority for their defenders. He just needs a little extra coaching to find a better balance to the effect Arnautovic was given, if that can be done then pairing him with a full back who also manages to find the right times to bomb forward past him and you may just have an answer to the conundrum. I also acknowledge every team in the league is looking for that balance also so it isn't as if it's easy to find lol. But if he managed to coach Marko into tracking back instead of standing around when out of possession he may be able to find the best in Shaqiri. |
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Post by Danstoke82 on Apr 26, 2016 12:38:14 GMT
Im gonna stick with him. He's World class, lets give him another season and then judge from there.
If he can somehow stay injury free then we could have a real player on our hands.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Apr 26, 2016 12:44:27 GMT
As good as Johnson has been, a younger, rapid RB constantly overlapping would take at least one player out of the game, allowing Shaqiri the space to really work his magic.
He's been double marked to fuck this season which is why we need those extra legs to allow him some more time on the ball, and indeed present someone to actually fucking pass to rather than having to go alone.
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Post by reddipotter on Apr 26, 2016 12:45:19 GMT
He certainly looks lost out on the right wing. He looks much better when he drifts inside, but the trouble is that the opposition know that that's his only move so they crowd him out. Being very one footed does not usually matter (Hudson only used his left foot for standing on) but it does if you're left footed on the right wing. As commented above, I can't believe that he and Arnie never swap sides.
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Post by reddipotter on Apr 26, 2016 12:47:38 GMT
As good as Johnson has been, a younger, rapid RB constantly overlapping would take at least one player out of the game, allowing Shaqiri the space to really work his magic. He's been double marked to fuck this season which is why we need those extra legs to allow him some more time on the ball, and indeed present someone to actually fucking pass to rather than having to go alone. But giving the ball to a forward and expecting them to produce something alone is the only attacking 'tactic' we have. |
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Apr 26, 2016 12:53:15 GMT
As good as Johnson has been, a younger, rapid RB constantly overlapping would take at least one player out of the game, allowing Shaqiri the space to really work his magic. He's been double marked to fuck this season which is why we need those extra legs to allow him some more time on the ball, and indeed present someone to actually fucking pass to rather than having to go alone. But giving the ball to a forward and expecting them to produce something alone is the only attacking 'tactic' we have. That's hardly the case, as much as I though Arnautovic had a poor game against Man City at the weekend, I can think of at least 2 times he put the ball on a plate for Joselu who had to simply find the target to score and both times he fluffed it completely. Recently our creation has been awful but for a large portion of the season our finishing has been of a greater concern. |
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Apr 26, 2016 12:55:34 GMT
As good as Johnson has been, a younger, rapid RB constantly overlapping would take at least one player out of the game, allowing Shaqiri the space to really work his magic. He's been double marked to fuck this season which is why we need those extra legs to allow him some more time on the ball, and indeed present someone to actually fucking pass to rather than having to go alone. A younger version would be ideal by all accounts as you never know how Johnson will com back after his injury and he wasn't the greatest full back, despite being the best we have up until his injury. Who do you reckon we could get? Maybe a lower league talent? I don't follow the lower leagues as closely as I did a couple of years ago, I think if Middlesborough don't get up some how then they have decent young full backs. |
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Post by stokesaint1 on Apr 26, 2016 13:05:13 GMT
Before he signed I was told he's the alpine Messi, a class above and obviously played for Bayern Munich and Inter Milan so potentially world class. I couldn't have been more disappointed, for a big name he's easily been the biggest disappointment as an outfield player this season, 4/10 from me. Totally agree. If he went tomorrow, we wouldn't miss him. He's also right up there with the Darren Anderton's, as a real "sick note", to add to the poor performances. Missed games, crap performances, your 4/10 is being generous. Apart from odd flashes, he has no where near justified his fee or salary. If someone came in with a reasonable offer, I'd snap their hand off. The let down of the season for me. |
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Post by thestatusquo on Apr 26, 2016 13:08:46 GMT
His injury record is not good and I hope he isn't another player who cannot cope with the riggers of Prem football.
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Post by chrisparker on Apr 26, 2016 13:11:41 GMT
Before he signed I was told he's the alpine Messi, a class above and obviously played for Bayern Munich and Inter Milan so potentially world class. I couldn't have been more disappointed, for a big name he's easily been the biggest disappointment as an outfield player this season, 4/10 from me. Totally agree. If he went tomorrow, we wouldn't miss him. He's also right up there with the Darren Anderton's, as a real "sick note", to add to the poor performances. Missed games, crap performances, your 4/10 is being generous. Apart from odd flashes, he has no where near justified his fee or salary. If someone came in with a reasonable offer, I'd snap their hand off. The let down of the season for me. I bet you said the same thing when Arnie first got here. Arnie first season was nowhere near as good as Shaq's first season. |
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Post by jezzascfc on Apr 26, 2016 13:20:30 GMT
As good as Johnson has been, a younger, rapid RB constantly overlapping would take at least one player out of the game, allowing Shaqiri the space to really work his magic. He's been double marked to fuck this season which is why we need those extra legs to allow him some more time on the ball, and indeed present someone to actually fucking pass to rather than having to go alone. A younger version would be ideal by all accounts as you never know how Johnson will com back after his injury and he wasn't the greatest full back, despite being the best we have up until his injury. Who do you reckon we could get? Maybe a lower league talent? I don't follow the lower leagues as closely as I did a couple of years ago, I think if Middlesborough don't get up some how then they have decent young full backs. If Sunderland go down, I'd go for DeAndre Yedlin, on loan from Spurs. He is a rapid right back and has now had time to get used to our league. Walker and Trippier block his way to the Spurs first XI and maybe Geoff can have a word when on US national team duty? As for Shaq, a full pre-season and staying injury free, we could see far more from him next season. No need to panic just yet. |
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Post by stokesaint1 on Apr 26, 2016 13:26:03 GMT
Totally agree. If he went tomorrow, we wouldn't miss him. He's also right up there with the Darren Anderton's, as a real "sick note", to add to the poor performances. Missed games, crap performances, your 4/10 is being generous. Apart from odd flashes, he has no where near justified his fee or salary. If someone came in with a reasonable offer, I'd snap their hand off. The let down of the season for me. I bet you saud the same thing when Arnie first got here. Arnie first season was nowhere near as good as Shaq's first season. Chris, if you think Shaq has been acceptable for the money we paid and the hype that came with him, then you are very easily pleased. Out of interest, I'm still saying the same about Arnie. Plays when he feels like it. Brilliant one game, crap for the next two. Could be a world beater if he wasn't such a sulky moaning git. Of the two, I'd just about keep Arnie but wouldn't be arsed about either not being here, given suitable replacements in the two wing positions. I await your reply with interest, telling me Arnie is best thing since sliced bread and look at the goals he's scored. Just think what he could have done, if he'd played his best in 30 odd games instead of 12 or so. It's all about opinions. |
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Post by jezzascfc on Apr 26, 2016 13:34:41 GMT
Our team can only justify having one luxury, number 10, floating around behind the front man type - we have, at times, played with 4 of them! Either some of them start putting in the hard yards, or we will surely have to consider replacing them with more functional footballers better attuned to the needs of the English game.
For what it is worth, I think Imbula and Shaqiri will be far better equipped to withstand the rigours of our league next season, as well as Bojan being significantly sharper in the number 10 role. One or two new recruits should also allow squad rotation and limit the chances of injuries and enable those who do get injured to not come back until they are fully fit.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Apr 26, 2016 13:37:21 GMT
I bet you saud the same thing when Arnie first got here. Arnie first season was nowhere near as good as Shaq's first season. Chris, if you think Shaq has been acceptable for the money we paid and the hype that came with him, then you are very easily pleased. Out of interest, I'm still saying the same about Arnie. Plays when he feels like it. Brilliant one game, crap for the next two. Could be a world beater if he wasn't such a sulky moaning git. Of the two, I'd just about keep Arnie but wouldn't be arsed about either not being here, given suitable replacements in the two wing positions. I await your reply with interest, telling me Arnie is best thing since sliced bread and look at the goals he's scored. Just think what he could have done, if he'd played his best in 30 odd games instead of 12 or so. It's all about opinions. If Arnie had a season like this one every season I'd take it. It's only this season that he's added the goals he was lacking. Sadly, I think he'll be on his way and we'll only get about what we got for N'Zonzi. I really hope he doesn't wind his contract down. |
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Post by jezzascfc on Apr 26, 2016 14:16:23 GMT
Chris, if you think Shaq has been acceptable for the money we paid and the hype that came with him, then you are very easily pleased. Out of interest, I'm still saying the same about Arnie. Plays when he feels like it. Brilliant one game, crap for the next two. Could be a world beater if he wasn't such a sulky moaning git. Of the two, I'd just about keep Arnie but wouldn't be arsed about either not being here, given suitable replacements in the two wing positions. I await your reply with interest, telling me Arnie is best thing since sliced bread and look at the goals he's scored. Just think what he could have done, if he'd played his best in 30 odd games instead of 12 or so. It's all about opinions. If Arnie had a season like this one every season I'd take it. It's only this season that he's added the goals he was lacking. Sadly, I think he'll be on his way and we'll only get about what we got for N'Zonzi. I really hope he doesn't wind his contract down. I thought Arnie's contract had a 12.5m sale clause in it? Either way, on current form, he would be a huge loss. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 14:16:26 GMT
If a big offer came in from China or the gulf that allwed us to recover our money on him I would take it to be honest , he has talent but I just dont see how he can physically compete consistently in this league add to that he seems to pick up a lot of pulls and strains. Maybe a good pre season will get him back on track but he simply does not live up to the hype . Odimwinge made more of an impact when he came from Cardiff than Shaq has as far as I can see In his debut season Odem got 5 goals and 1 assist, creating 8 chances. Shaq has 3 goals and 6 assists, creating 48 chances. It's more than just goals. |
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 26, 2016 14:47:13 GMT
I think I'm with Matt on this. He needs space to create. He's at his best when he's popping up all over the place (and he started that Leicester game really well). Our system requires some real pace out wide and often looks more balanced when there's a striker like Odem or Walters out there. Shaqiri is more of an orchestrator than an explosive speed merchant. The only trouble is we've got about five players whose best position is the role behind the striker. Exactly , Hughes needs to figure out how to fit affelay, Bojan , imbula .into the team part of the problem we look fragile when he plays them all , shaqiri only compounds the problem . He needs to vastly improve the work ethic amongst our creative players |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 14:50:40 GMT
I think I'm with Matt on this. He needs space to create. He's at his best when he's popping up all over the place (and he started that Leicester game really well). Our system requires some real pace out wide and often looks more balanced when there's a striker like Odem or Walters out there. Shaqiri is more of an orchestrator than an explosive speed merchant. The only trouble is we've got about five players whose best position is the role behind the striker. Exactly , Hughes needs to figure out how to fit affelay, Bojan , imbula .into the team part of the problem we look fragile when he plays them all , shaqiri only compounds the problem . He needs to vastly improve the work ethic amongst our creative players You've always hated Mark Hughes haven't you .P |
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 26, 2016 15:00:45 GMT
Exactly , Hughes needs to figure out how to fit affelay, Bojan , imbula .into the team part of the problem we look fragile when he plays them all , shaqiri only compounds the problem . He needs to vastly improve the work ethic amongst our creative players You've always hated Mark Hughes haven't you .P No mate just a concerned citizen  |
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