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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 26, 2016 10:33:45 GMT
Getting knocked out in the Euro quarters followed by failure to get out the group stages of a world cup. Can you tell me how many England managers have been allowed to take England to a third major tournament after such failure? He should have been sacked after the euros when it was clear he didnt have a plan b and had no idea how to put out a team capable of keeping possession for any length of time. The result aside (ie we didnt lose in normal time), our performance against Italy in Ukraine was hapless. Who are the two managers you have in mind? Sven and Glenn Hoddle make this guy look shit let alone a manager who might actually come close to (dare i say it) winning something. The worst thing about all this is that after weve failed in France this year, the fa are threatening to renew his contract. No wonder Woy has a grin on his face these days. I agree there was a case for him to go after the world cup. Taylor, Keegan and McClaren were all worse England managers. I don't think he did badly at Euro 2012 given the circumstances. Got through a group that wasn't easy and came within penalties of the semis. World Cup was a disaster absolutely and that's on him. He really needs someone to talk for him as he buries himself every time he opens his mouth and his big club obsession is a bit embarrassing, but I like that he's brought some talented young players through and he's done better than those managers who couldn't even get us to qualify for major tournaments. I think he's gone after the Euros regardless of how we do. I also think history might remember him as being a better manager that he's currently thought of. Look at what a pigs arse we made getting through the group in 2010 and the 2014 meltdown isn't that much of a shock.Look at Italy heritage and look at ours. Uruguay went into it as South American champions. It was always going be a tough ask AlthoughI honestly didn't think we would lose the first two games.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 26, 2016 11:01:24 GMT
I agree there was a case for him to go after the world cup. Taylor, Keegan and McClaren were all worse England managers. I don't think he did badly at Euro 2012 given the circumstances. Got through a group that wasn't easy and came within penalties of the semis. World Cup was a disaster absolutely and that's on him. He really needs someone to talk for him as he buries himself every time he opens his mouth and his big club obsession is a bit embarrassing, but I like that he's brought some talented young players through and he's done better than those managers who couldn't even get us to qualify for major tournaments. I think he's gone after the Euros regardless of how we do. I also think history might remember him as being a better manager that he's currently thought of. Look at what a pigs arse we made getting through the group in 2010 and the 2014 meltdown isn't that much of a shock.Look at Italy heritage and look at ours. Uruguay went into it as South American champions. It was always going be a tough ask AlthoughI honestly didn't think we would lose the first two games. It was the Uruguay game that really showed him and England I thought. He got it badly wrong tactically. Going into the tournament expecting a decrepeit Gerrard - especially one in 'messiah mode' to play a holding role was asking for trouble and Tabarez saw us coming.
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Post by ed5993 on Mar 26, 2016 11:08:07 GMT
My main frustration with Hodgson and seemingly most recent England managers (or is it the FA...) is the inconsistency in selection strategy.
Lallana, Henderson, Cahill and Smalling are the ones that spring to mind for tonight's game - all underperforming at the worst / bag on average at best on current / this season's form. Yet will get in the starting XI of any England team.
Yet players like Mark Noble or Shawcross who have been their club's strongest player for seasons in and out never seem to get a proper look in.
Flip side of that players in good immediate form like Michail Antonio or Arron Creswell also get overlooked. Unless that is you play for a bigger club where you can seemingly play about 3 good games and get straight in.
What will we learn from playing Lallana on the left again and Henderson in the middle? They're both very 'beige' players that don't inspire me to watch England play.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 26, 2016 12:48:10 GMT
On a wider point, it's just England's luck that at a time when we have genuine options up front and a bit of pace in the side it has coincided with having the worst group of defenders in living memory.
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Post by greyman on Mar 26, 2016 13:47:17 GMT
My main frustration with Hodgson and seemingly most recent England managers (or is it the FA...) is the inconsistency in selection strategy. Lallana, Henderson, Cahill and Smalling are the ones that spring to mind for tonight's game - all underperforming at the worst / bag on average at best on current / this season's form. Yet will get in the starting XI of any England team. Yet players like Mark Noble or Shawcross who have been their club's strongest player for seasons in and out never seem to get a proper look in. Flip side of that players in good immediate form like Michail Antonio or Arron Creswell also get overlooked. Unless that is you play for a bigger club where you can seemingly play about 3 good games and get straight in. What will we learn from playing Lallana on the left again and Henderson in the middle? They're both very 'beige' players that don't inspire me to watch England play. To be fair, when it comes to Jack Wilshere and Phil Jones, you don't have to be playing at all to get in,
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 26, 2016 15:04:06 GMT
Look at what a pigs arse we made getting through the group in 2010 and the 2014 meltdown isn't that much of a shock.Look at Italy heritage and look at ours. Uruguay went into it as South American champions. It was always going be a tough ask AlthoughI honestly didn't think we would lose the first two games. It was the Uruguay game that really showed him and England I thought. He got it badly wrong tactically. Going into the tournament expecting a decrepeit Gerrard - especially one in 'messiah mode' to play a holding role was asking for trouble and Tabarez saw us coming. True. Don't forget as well we don't have players of Suarez quality. Rarely have.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 26, 2016 15:08:00 GMT
It was the Uruguay game that really showed him and England I thought. He got it badly wrong tactically. Going into the tournament expecting a decrepeit Gerrard - especially one in 'messiah mode' to play a holding role was asking for trouble and Tabarez saw us coming. True. Don't forget as well we don't have players of Suarez quality. Rarely have. We don't but I'm not convinced many of the Uruguay side would get into the England side. They were beaten 3-1 by Costa Rica!
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 26, 2016 15:12:30 GMT
True. Don't forget as well we don't have players of Suarez quality. Rarely have. We don't but I'm not convinced many of the Uruguay side would get into the England side. They were beaten 3-1 by Costa Rica! But Costa Rica embraced a system to suit them. Their players adapted accordingly. Too many English are incapable of varying their game because they aren't brought up to do so. They have just been told about the p word and the rest of it is gobbledygook to them.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 26, 2016 15:15:40 GMT
We don't but I'm not convinced many of the Uruguay side would get into the England side. They were beaten 3-1 by Costa Rica! But Costa Rica embraced a system to suit them. Their players adapted accordingly. Too many English are incapable of varying their game because they aren't brought up to do so. They have just been told about the p word and the rest of it is gobbledygook to them. Exactly and that's the problem that needs to be addressed, rather than hand-wringing and saying 'oh well Uruguay are better than us'. Uruguay beat us because they out-thought us and we had no comeback.
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 26, 2016 15:20:06 GMT
But Costa Rica embraced a system to suit them. Their players adapted accordingly. Too many English are incapable of varying their game because they aren't brought up to do so. They have just been told about the p word and the rest of it is gobbledygook to them. Exactly and that's the problem that needs to be addressed, rather than hand-wringing and saying 'oh well Uruguay are better than us'. Uruguay beat us because they out-thought us and we had no comeback. 100% right BUT when we lose tonight the phone ins on talksport will have loads of people going on about you know what☺
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Post by oatcakesteve on Mar 26, 2016 16:55:36 GMT
Of course he won't, he plays for Man U you know. And when fit is one of the best we have. But let's not let that fact get in the way. It was a tongue in cheek comment Mark. And anyway, there's no way Hodgson would drop a fit Rooney, even if in poor form. The bloke is set in his ways and has his favourites, Rooney being one of them.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 26, 2016 17:26:56 GMT
Getting knocked out in the Euro quarters followed by failure to get out the group stages of a world cup. Can you tell me how many England managers have been allowed to take England to a third major tournament after such failure? He should have been sacked after the euros when it was clear he didnt have a plan b and had no idea how to put out a team capable of keeping possession for any length of time. The result aside (ie we didnt lose in normal time), our performance against Italy in Ukraine was hapless. Who are the two managers you have in mind? Sven and Glenn Hoddle make this guy look shit let alone a manager who might actually come close to (dare i say it) winning something. The worst thing about all this is that after weve failed in France this year, the fa are threatening to renew his contract. No wonder Woy has a grin on his face these days. I agree there was a case for him to go after the world cup. Taylor, Keegan and McClaren were all worse England managers. I don't think he did badly at Euro 2012 given the circumstances. Got through a group that wasn't easy and came within penalties of the semis. World Cup was a disaster absolutely and that's on him. He really needs someone to talk for him as he buries himself every time he opens his mouth and his big club obsession is a bit embarrassing, but I like that he's brought some talented young players through and he's done better than those managers who couldn't even get us to qualify for major tournaments. I think he's gone after the Euros regardless of how we do. I also think history might remember him as being a better manager that he's currently thought of. Fair comments bar the last sentance
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Post by WhyDelilah on Mar 26, 2016 22:04:52 GMT
Game changed once Lallana went off.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 27, 2016 1:53:20 GMT
The change to two up front made a huge difference absolutely.
Played to Vardy's strengths rather than trying to cram a square peg into a round hole.
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Post by damagedswan on Mar 27, 2016 4:01:12 GMT
The change to two up front made a huge difference absolutely. Played to Vardy's strengths rather than trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. just re-watched the whole game and tbh i was seriously impressed by the attacking performance before and after the changes... yes the change to two up front made a big, positive difference, but it was a case of tactical variation rather than 'rescuing a situation' imo. i don't think i've ever seen an england front line play as fluidly as kane, alli, lallana and welbeck did today, and they created 3 or 4 pretty decent chances together. thought they were all good (yes lallana too) and that alli and kane were exceptional. kane's ability to drop deeper and allow other players into the middle is such an underrated aspect of his game, and alli just looked like the consummate modern footballer, something that i'd almost stopped believing i'd ever see in an england shirt. the great thing about bringing barkley and vardy on with 20/25 minutes to go is it suddenly allowed us to press germany extremely high again, at a time in the match when they were clearly tiring, not expecting it, even, you'd have to say. you suddenly have our two best engines on the pitch running at full speed against a pretty shaken opposition. our play became noticeably less sophisticated and more direct, but it was really really effective in such a short burst. it was weird to see an england team not just play effectively, but play effectively in two different ways! really it's just a shame about the defence.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Mar 27, 2016 7:51:51 GMT
The change to two up front made a huge difference absolutely. Played to Vardy's strengths rather than trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. And Lallana was garbage.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 27, 2016 7:54:07 GMT
The change to two up front made a huge difference absolutely. Played to Vardy's strengths rather than trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. And Lallana was garbage. He was. Good England performance though. Credit to Hodgson and the team.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Mar 27, 2016 8:03:57 GMT
He was. Good England performance though. Credit to Hodgson and the team. Absolutely. Rooney shouldn't get back in. We're gonna win the Euros.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Mar 27, 2016 8:19:12 GMT
I agree there was a case for him to go after the world cup. Taylor, Keegan and McClaren were all worse England managers. I don't think he did badly at Euro 2012 given the circumstances. Got through a group that wasn't easy and came within penalties of the semis. World Cup was a disaster absolutely and that's on him. He really needs someone to talk for him as he buries himself every time he opens his mouth and his big club obsession is a bit embarrassing, but I like that he's brought some talented young players through and he's done better than those managers who couldn't even get us to qualify for major tournaments. I think he's gone after the Euros regardless of how we do. I also think history might remember him as being a better manager that he's currently thought of. Look at what a pigs arse we made getting through the group in 2010 and the 2014 meltdown isn't that much of a shock.Look at Italy heritage and look at ours. Uruguay went into it as South American champions. It was always going be a tough ask AlthoughI honestly didn't think we would lose the first two games. I think Hodgson is the same as every other England manager. Shit. We never have a game plan in tournament games and that has always been the same in my lifetime. If we play Germany in the summer they will have a plan for kane Ali, vardy. we will just throw the players out into the 4-3-3 and that's it. Enjoyed last night and we have some talent there but until we get a tournament manager nothing will change.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Mar 27, 2016 8:24:10 GMT
The change to two up front made a huge difference absolutely. Played to Vardy's strengths rather than trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. And Lallana was garbage. Shouldn't be in the squad.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Mar 27, 2016 8:27:08 GMT
Shouldn't be in the squad. Maybe Blazing Squad.
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Post by fca47 on Mar 27, 2016 9:41:17 GMT
It must be great playing under Hodgson, people play well for England or have a great season with their clubs, but he goes on about they are nowhere near displacing Joe Hart , or Wayne Rooney, Jack Wilshire etc. He may think those things , but to say it to the media must make the replacements feel really great, he really is an arse. Last night showed that we will be best served playing an offensive game, the defence is so bad, but you know he is going to revert to the same turgid stuff as in the World Cup etc. Can't abide the man.
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